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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    2002 Audi S6 Avant; 2009 Dodge Ram; 2010 Mini Cooper S
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    Adventures in Braking

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    Good morning fellow Audiziners. I will try and make this less of a rant and more informational, but I can't guarantee that.

    This adventure starts out after finishing my road trip across the east coast. Before the trip, I inspected all the normal wear and tear parts to make sure that they are up to speed. I ended up doing an oil change and swapping out the front driver side axle, however, everything else seemed to be able to handle the trip. The rear brakes were getting close to needing to be replaced, but I decided to wait till after the trip to address them when I had more time and I am glad I did.

    To paint the picture of where I now sit, my car is a 2002 s6 avant with a few upgraded goodies from the two previous owners. Some of their upgrades had me scratching my head, but one I really agreed with was the brake upgrade they performed where they swapped out the fronts with Brembo Porsche Cayenne 350mm brakes and 328mm brakes for the rear. This is where my dilemma starts. If you have done research on upgrading the braking system on our cars you will see that there isn't a truly off the shelf Porsche kit...or there wasn't one at least when this upgrade was performed. Even with that in mind, I thought I was still good since the previous owners kept all documentation and receipts for the vehicle....or so I thought.

    Everything seemed to have been custom made for the braking system except for the calipers and pads themselves. The original owner of the car was an engineer and luckily I have all of his engineering notes to go along with all the mounting pieces and custom two piece rotors that he had made. What I don't have is any specific paperwork on the calipers or brake pads that were used other than Porsche Cayenne brakes. This is where my research began 6 days ago. I thought to myself...this shouldn't be that hard. I had documentation that discussed when the install was performed and that it specified using all new parts in 2009 and I actually enjoy researching car info. Boy was I wrong. After three days, I have identified the rear brakes are not Cayenne, but 997 which opens up a whole new can of worms. I thought now I am getting somewhere. I then dove head first into the 997 world of Porsche which led me to feel sorry for all 911 owners out there who have a want to work on their own cars, but dont have any specific information about the parts they need . The three days following were nothing but Porsche part numbers and discussions with Porsche dealerships trying to narrow down what the calipers came off of just to find the right fitting pads. It turns out that Porsche used 10 different types of calipers for their 997 series of cars...each with different build demisions. For the most part, Porsche color codes their calipers either grey, red, or yellow to denote the type of pads that they use. However, I found documentation that the previous owner had the calipers repainted red with no indication if the calipers were origially red or not. This led me to start measuring every aspect of the calipers and worn pads in the hopes of finding my unicorn of replacement parts. I even dove into documentation from the brake manufacturer Textar and came back with nothing. It didn't help that the pad shape did not match any picture I could find with the brakes they offered. Google was failing me at this point. Porsche parts catalogue only added more questions. The part number on the pads was a dead end. Even the Brembo part number that is stamped on the caliper was coming back with nothing. I started plotting the demise of the previous owner as a way to boost my mood . I was doomed...until I found one small post on a Porsche forum discussing possible upgrades for 991 brakes. Eureka! I finally had a part number to my rear calipers. Smooth sailing here we come, but alas, is was not meant to be. Down the rabbit hole of 911 GT3 cup cars I went till I hit rock bottom. I was able to now narrow down the model to a Porsche 911 Turbo from DIY videos on Youtube and that is now where I sit. I have ordered pads for a 2009 997 911 Turbo with a resignation that I will have to proceed on a trial and error basis till I find the right ones that fit, but I have a good feeling I am in the right area for parts . Now on to the custom made rotors. At least I have the build sheets for those.

    What I have learned through this process:

    I learned I have a knack for understanding/reading german.
    I learned that I cuss repeatedly when I do research.
    I learned that Porsche likes to use specific parts for specific models so you practically need the vin number breakout to figure out anything.
    I learned that when I move on to the front brakes....it will be more of this.
    Last edited by SixOp; 06-24-2017 at 09:53 AM.
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings bpark1210's Avatar
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    This shouldn't be too hard. Only a very few companies offered rear BBK caliper brackets for the wide body C5. Off the top of my head Apikol is really the only one I can think of that offered a rear Porsche caliper upgrade . . . I believe, I think, . . . . I don't have access to their website right now to confirm. What ever calipers you're running there should only be one set of pads that will fit. Post up your caliper model number. Regarding caliper color and pad it doesn't matter, just buy a pad w/ braking characteristics you prefer. As for the rotor size (328mm) it doesn't sound like a common BBK for the rear. Mine are running A8 rotors at 310mm. There's a lot of 328mmx28mm rotors out there and would start researching what the Porsche caliper allows in terms of rotor thickness.

    Post the caliper part # and I can try to help research more. To be honest you're running a very uncommon rear setup but finding replacement parts shouldn't be impossible.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpark1210 View Post
    This shouldn't be too hard. Only a very few companies offered rear BBK caliper brackets for the wide body C5. Off the top of my head Apikol is really the only one I can think of that offered a rear Porsche caliper upgrade . . . I believe, I think, . . . . I don't have access to their website right now to confirm. What ever calipers you're running there should only be one set of pads that will fit. Post up your caliper model number. Regarding caliper color and pad it doesn't matter, just buy a pad w/ braking characteristics you prefer. As for the rotor size (328mm) it doesn't sound like a common BBK for the rear. Mine are running A8 rotors at 310mm. There's a lot of 328mmx28mm rotors out there and would start researching what the Porsche caliper allows in terms of rotor thickness.

    Post the caliper part # and I can try to help research more. To be honest you're running a very uncommon rear setup but finding replacement parts shouldn't be impossible.
    Thank you for offering assistance bpark.

    I got my pads in today and it seems like they will work with the pad guides and depth of the caliper, but will have to wait till tomorrow when my spring clips come in to reassemble. The pads have two prongs on the top so i am wondering if they will impeed the pads movement sine the pads i took off didnt have anythin on top of them.

    The rotors are a custom made two piece design from Coleman racing with aluminum hats. I just have to contact them with the original build sheet and get new steel rotor blanks made.

    The caliper part number is 20.9401.05 1A or at least that is what is stamped on it. That part number doesn't match anything that Porsche has in their catalog so it might be a Brembo manufacturing number.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Three Rings bpark1210's Avatar
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    That doesn't sounds like a Porsche specific caliper number to me. They usually start off with model code i.e. "986" "991" "996" etc. Post a picture, I'm curious to see what kind of caliper you have. Is it a 2 pot or 3 pot caliper on the rear and how is the e-brake setup?

    If you have the rotor dimensions I've heard girodisc.com can do custom rotors which gives you an alternative option.

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    2002 Audi S6 Avant; 2009 Dodge Ram; 2010 Mini Cooper S
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    There isn't a Porsche part number stamped on it. I'll take pictures this afternoon and post them. Thanks for the other rotor option.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    2002 Audi S6 Avant; 2009 Dodge Ram; 2010 Mini Cooper S
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpark1210 View Post
    That doesn't sounds like a Porsche specific caliper number to me. They usually start off with model code i.e. "986" "991" "996" etc. Post a picture, I'm curious to see what kind of caliper you have. Is it a 2 pot or 3 pot caliper on the rear and how is the e-brake setup?

    If you have the rotor dimensions I've heard girodisc.com can do custom rotors which gives you an alternative option.
    Caliper pics:

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Three Rings bpark1210's Avatar
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    Looks like a 997 Turbo rear 2 pot caliper. Try part# 99735242632. Model year 2006-2007.

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    2002 Audi S6 Avant; 2009 Dodge Ram; 2010 Mini Cooper S
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpark1210 View Post
    Looks like a 997 Turbo rear 2 pot caliper. Try part# 99735242632. Model year 2006-2007.
    That jives with what I was thinking, I just went with an 2008-2009 model 911 turbo for my guesstimate. The part number for the pads are the same though. For the life of me I still don't understand why the parts department at Porsche needed the full specs of the car since the generic Porsche turbos seem to share the same pad part number. Pads and rotors are turning out relatively cheap even with the upgraded brakes compared to my wife's stock Mini Cooper s.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings bpark1210's Avatar
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    The stealership is dumb sometimes they just care about charging you the most they can get. There prob is some minor difference in pad compound on the OEM brake pads from C2/C4/GT they were trying to differentiate. As for your calipers they are probably sourced from another car manufacturer that used the same brembo caliper casting, hence the missing Porsche part#.

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    Gotcha. Thanks again for the help.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings bpark1210's Avatar
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    I'm still curious about your e-brake, how is that setup? A lot of Audi guys want to run a bigger caliper in the rear but the e-brake is usually not compatible w/ the brembo pots.

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpark1210 View Post
    I'm still curious about your e-brake, how is that setup? A lot of Audi guys want to run a bigger caliper in the rear but the e-brake is usually not compatible w/ the brembo pots.
    The e-brake is a Stop tech st-10 setup, but it seems like he designed and milled his own mounting brackets for both the calipers and e-brake.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings JediJoker7169's Avatar
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    I'm jealous of your 2-piece blanks. I guess when they're truly custom, you can do that. I'm stuck with slotted at the moment (not the worst thing; better than drilled).
    - JediJoker

    "Dieselgate" / 2011 VW Jetta SportWagen TDI 6-speed

    FORMER: "Das Boot" / 2001 Audi A6 2.7T quattro sedan:
    RS4 clutch / 710N DVs / 2Bennett Stage2 GT front 6-piston Brembo 350mm/rear 311mm / Bilstein PSS9 / Hotchkis Sport anti-roll bars / 034 Density adjustable front UCAs/Track Density front shock mounts/spherical ARB end links / O.Z. Superturismo LM 18" x 8" / Hella E-codes / LED tails / Facelift rear license plate trim

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    2002 Audi S6 Avant; 2009 Dodge Ram; 2010 Mini Cooper S
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    Looking back through the previous owner's paperwork it seems that the custom hats and rotors ran him around 200-250 a wheel and that is with aluminum hats. Granted that was about 8 years ago. Just got a price quote for replacement vented and slotted rotors for $99 a piece from the same company so I am happy.
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Three Rings bpark1210's Avatar
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    Hey SixOp do your front rotors for the 18z's come from Coleman Racing as well? Curious how much the fronts will run because my JHM rotors were insanely pricey for just rotors.

  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpark1210 View Post
    Hey SixOp do your front rotors for the 18z's come from Coleman Racing as well? Curious how much the fronts will run because my JHM rotors were insanely pricey for just rotors.
    Yep. All 4 came from them.

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    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I'm gonna have to get a quote from Coleman racing too. I have 4 pot cayenne/touareg/q7 calipers(330mm rotor) I got for next to nothing that I'm gonna throw on my 4.2 a6. It would be easier to get custom rotors than to send my calipers to a machine shop and have to modify Volvo v70r rotors.
    Do you have cast aluminum or billet aluminum hats?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    Aluminum hats.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings SixOp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronNY View Post
    I'm gonna have to get a quote from Coleman racing too. I have 4 pot cayenne/touareg/q7 calipers(330mm rotor) I got for next to nothing that I'm gonna throw on my 4.2 a6. It would be easier to get custom rotors than to send my calipers to a machine shop and have to modify Volvo v70r rotors.
    Do you have cast aluminum or billet aluminum hats?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    Sorry for not replying sooner. It has been pretty hectic around my house. Im not sure if they are cast or billet. I would assume billet as they are pretty smooth and dont have any normal casting marks you would typically see from a mold.

    My car is finally back together, but it took me a while. I ended up going back and forth with Coleman Racing on the proper demensions based off of the previous owners order specs. There was an issue with one of the flange measurements as they stopped making flanges as thick as he had previously ordered. I ended up ordering 328 mm x 26mm rotors (slotted and vented) which came out to about $140 a piece. Still not bad for custom rotors. I then had to source new mounting bolts that were shorter to take up the slack with the thinner flanges....not to mention getting the old rotors off of the hats was a complete pain in 100 F temps. It's back on the road though so I am happy. Now on to radiator fan issues, intermitent ABS light, fluxuating AC tems, and the roof leak.
    2002 Goodwood Green S6 avant....She's ugly to most, but grows on you like a fungus.

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