BMW 435i and My A4

[AutoRacer100]

My A4 and a BMW 435i were waiting for the light to turn green (side by side). I did not want him to cut me off because two lanes is merging into one lane right after the light. But that BMW was so quick and I had no chance. I think my car had turbo lag and it didn't shoot out as soon as I floored it when the light turned green. I know I'm comparing apple with orange.

I see BMW discontinued the 435i and started making 440i with turbo 4 engine. Maybe I have a chance with 440i??

[weagle1856]

What are the specs and 0-60 for the 435? Remember the BMW x3xi(and the new x4xi series you mentioned) series' are compared to an S4, not an A4. Maybe if you had a tune and whatever else would be needed hardware wise

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[AutoRacer100]

What are the specs and 0-60 for the 435? Remember the BMW x3xi(and the new x4xi series you mentioned) series' are compared to an S4, not an A4. Maybe if you had a tune and whatever else would be needed hardware wise

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I have GIAC tune with coil overs. I bought the ECS Tuning IC and waiting to be installed on my car. I searched the YouTube on 435i. It is a I6 with twin turbo. So we are not in the same league. But that guy did not floor it either because I could tell by the exhaust sound when take off. It wasn't extreme loud. But I like the V6 deep growl. My next car will be a V6 or a V8 for sure.

[LINDW4LL]

I see BMW discontinued the 435i and started making 440i with turbo 4 engine. Maybe I have a chance with 440i??

The 435i and 440i both have turbo 3.0L inline sixes with 300+hp. They are the competitors to the S4 and S5.

The A4 cannot match.

[Casual Friday]

The 435i and 440i both have turbo 3.0L inline sixes with 300+hp. They are the competitors to the S4 and S5.

The A4 cannot match.

This and the twin turbos reduce turbo lag making it quicker off the line.

[AutoRacer100]

Yeah, I need a quicker car. 430i is a turbo 4. Or a K04 upgrade gives me a chance?

[NRigs]

This and the twin turbos reduce turbo lag making it quicker off the line.

Not twin turbo, it is called twin power because of the twin scroll turbo. that is why there is little to no turbo lag.

[AutoRacer100]

Not twin turbo, it is called twin power because of the twin scroll turbo. that is why there is little to no turbo lag.

Is K04 a twin power turbo? If not, the BMW twin turbo boosts more power than a K04 turbo?

[pwdrskr]

K04 won't help you much in this scenario. Larger turbos can actually exacerbate turbo lag (more exhaust needed to spin the turbo means longer time to generate the requisite gases. And the K04 is not a twin anything. Hunt up some information on how a turbo functions to get a better explanation that what I've written). Once the K04 gets going though there is a big difference. I notice the gains from K04 when already in motion and rpms are above 3000. Also big difference when at higher rpms; power doesn't flatten out. There isn't much of a noticeable drop off compared to stock turbo when starting from a dead stop...

A friend once told me (probably stolen from somewhere) that "there is no replacement for displacement". That is most noticeable in the "off the line" comparison. Generally, a V8 will perform better off the line than a 6 cylinder which will perform better than a 4 banger... Of course other factors such as gear ratios and vehicle weight play into this as well.

Once upon a time a I had a 335xi with no modifications. That thing would get up and move! Put it "S" mode and wow! I'd probably still have it had I been able to get a 335xi wagon. I also had an X3 335i xdrive. Twin scroll turbo six. Thing weighed a ton and it too would get up and go.

[Zach L]

You don't have a chance against either of those... they're both faster from the factory and faster modified. The new 440i has 320hp right off the lot.

Get an S4. That would be the competitor to the BMWs you name.

[adamazing]

The 435i and 440i both have turbo 3.0L inline sixes with 300+hp. They are the competitors to the S4 and S5.

The A4 cannot match.

As others have mentioned.... this.

[A4 Centaur]

Yup, you will need an RS or another brand to whoop on a M4, or 4 Series BMW

[AutoRacer100]

The new S4 is not a super charger. I think a supercharged S4 is quicker than a turbo charged S4 from a dead stop. I don't know why Audi decided to go backwards in terms of performance, (rolling back to a turbo S4 from a supercharged S4, rolling back from a dual clutch transmission to a non dual clutched 9 speed transmission).

I wish there are some reviews on a new S4, C43 and the 4 series. Which one is the best overall vehicle in that segment (in terms of value, reliability, performance and comfort).

[AutoRacer100]

Yup, you will need an RS or another brand to whoop on a M4

What a M4? 4 series is not a M4.

[Zach L]

The new S4 is not a super charger. I think a supercharged S4 is quicker than a turbo charged S4 from a dead stop. I don't know why Audi decided to go backwards in terms of performance, (rolling back to a turbo S4 from a supercharged S4, rolling back from a dual clutch transmission to a non dual clutched 9 speed transmission).

I wish there are some reviews on a new S4, C43 and the 4 series. Which one is the best overall vehicle in that segment (in terms of value, reliability, performance and comfort).

The new turbocharged S4 is superior in nearly every way... and it's faster from a launch. The turbocharger doesn't make a difference from a stop because lag is not an issue if the car is launched properly.

Turbocharger was a not a step back; it was a step forward. The new S4 will be modified much easier, as turbocharged engines have much better power potential for far less money. A simple $600-900 software flash will probably yield +60-100 hp and +100-150 tq.

[hyperunion]

My A4 and a BMW 435i were waiting for the light to turn green (side by side). I did not want him to cut me off because two lanes is merging into one lane right after the light. But that BMW was so quick and I had no chance. I think my car had turbo lag and it didn't shoot out as soon as I floored it when the light turned green. I know I'm comparing apple with orange.

I see BMW discontinued the 435i and started making 440i with turbo 4 engine. Maybe I have a chance with 440i??

The new 350 ,440 use the similar straight six 3.0 engine, no longer called the n55 motor but b58, has some internal changes based on the m3's twin turbo s55 motor.. tho still sounding much better

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[hyperunion]

The new S4 is not a super charger. I think a supercharged S4 is quicker than a turbo charged S4 from a dead stop. I don't know why Audi decided to go backwards in terms of performance, (rolling back to a turbo S4 from a supercharged S4, rolling back from a dual clutch transmission to a non dual clutched 9 speed transmission).

I wish there are some reviews on a new S4, C43 and the 4 series. Which one is the best overall vehicle in that segment (in terms of value, reliability, performance and comfort).

Not a 9 speed but an upgraded zf8speed... Audi is going away from dual clutches like that in the s4 for reliability in handing the much increased torque!.. and it's a pretty fast transmission!..

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[A4 Centaur]

What a M4? 4 series is not a M4.

I know that. Its a similar vehicle in terms of weight.

[Casual Friday]

Not twin turbo, it is called twin power because of the twin scroll turbo. that is why there is little to no turbo lag.

You sure? Could have sworn my 09 335 had twin turbos. Essentially its the same thing though in the end result I guess

[LINDW4LL]

You sure? Could have sworn my 09 335 had twin turbos. Essentially its the same thing though in the end result I guess

Your '09 did have twins (N54 engine).

BMW switched to the single turbo N55 for MY2011+, though they used the term "TwinPower" for both engines...

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[Casual Friday]

The new turbocharged S4 is superior in nearly every way... and it's faster from a launch. The turbocharger doesn't make a difference from a stop because lag is not an issue if the car is launched properly.

Turbocharger was a not a step back; it was a step forward. The new S4 will be modified much easier, as turbocharged engines have much better power potential for far less money. A simple $600-900 software flash will probably yield +60-100 hp and +100-150 tq.

This is debatable. An argument as old as time.

[AutoRacer100]

The new turbocharged S4 is superior in nearly every way... and it's faster from a launch. The turbocharger doesn't make a difference from a stop because lag is not an issue if the car is launched properly.

Turbocharger was a not a step back; it was a step forward. The new S4 will be modified much easier, as turbocharged engines have much better power potential for far less money. A simple $600-900 software flash will probably yield +60-100 hp and +100-150 tq.

I have seen one or two posts by B9 S4 owners mentioned about noticeable turbo lag of their car. So I guess I have go for a test drive to confirm this.

[Hybrid81]

We can take 428's at Stage II.

[AutoRacer100]

We can take 428's at Stage II.

428 is a turbo 4. 30 HPs more than our car if stock vs. stock. It wouldn't be fair to compare a stage II A4 with a stock BMW 428i.

[Hybrid81]

428 is a turbo 4. 30 HPs more than our car if stock vs. stock. It wouldn't be fair to compare a stage II A4 with a stock BMW 428i.

Wasn't a comparison, just a statement.

[Smellie]

I'd put money down that a b9 a4 is faster than a 430i stock for stock.

Not sure about b9 s4 vs a 440i.

[AutoRacer100]

I'd put money down that a b9 a4 is faster than a 430i stock for stock.

Not sure about b9 s4 vs a 440i.

I've always seen the BMW TV commercial about how good their ultimate drive machines are. I guess 440i will beat a S4 then. BMW never bother to improve the interior quality/look and still ask for more money than an Audi. I guess their performance must be better to attract buyers.

[Zach L]

This is debatable. An argument as old as time.

0-60 times are not opinion.

[pwdrskr]

Good explanation of turbo versus supercharger including pros/cons: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/eng...superchargers/

[Casual Friday]

The new turbocharged S4 is superior in nearly every way... and it's faster from a launch. The turbocharger doesn't make a difference from a stop because lag is not an issue if the car is launched properly.

Turbocharger was a not a step back; it was a step forward. The new S4 will be modified much easier, as turbocharged engines have much better power potential for far less money. A simple $600-900 software flash will probably yield +60-100 hp and +100-150 tq.

0-60 times are not opinion.

Claiming the new turbo S4 is superior in nearly every way and that turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers, then backing up that statement with the sole comparison of 0-60 times is about as scrub of an argument as I've ever seen. First, the turbocharger vs. supercharger argument has no right answer, unless its "personal preference," as the reasoning behind this quarrel is almost elusively opinion based (exception to this rule when external factors come into play in which case one may be the better option). Second, you're correct in that 0-60 times are not opinion, however these times show only a portion of the performance potential of the car and thus backing up statements such as "the new turbo s4 is superior in nearly every way" and "turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers" is very single minded and thus actually detracts from your argument.

My apologies if this post comes off as harsh, its wednesday and I havent had my banana.

[Zach L]

Claiming the new turbo S4 is superior in nearly every way and that turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers, then backing up that statement with the sole comparison of 0-60 times is about as scrub of an argument as I've ever seen. First, the turbocharger vs. supercharger argument has no right answer, unless its "personal preference," as the reasoning behind this quarrel is almost elusively opinion based (exception to this rule when external factors come into play in which case one may be the better option). Second, you're correct in that 0-60 times are not opinion, however these times show only a portion of the performance potential of the car and thus backing up statements such as "the new turbo s4 is superior in nearly every way" and "turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers" is very single minded and thus actually detracts from your argument.

My apologies if this post comes off as harsh, its wednesday and I havent had my banana.

0-60 time is not the only way it's superior or even the most important; it's just the most obvious. What do you want a comprehensive list of every way the B9 is better?!? Lol.

So quick to accuse me as being "single minded" for giving one example of how the B9 is superior, yet your post gives a whopping zero examples to the contrary. A bit hypocritical?

[Casual Friday]

0-60 time is not the only way it's superior or even the most important; it's just the most obvious. What do you want a comprehensive list of every way the B9 is better?!? Lol.

So quick to accuse me as being "single minded" for giving one example of how the B9 is superior, yet your post gives a whopping zero examples to the contrary. A bit hypocritical?

If you had given track time comparisons I wouldn't have called you out. So no, I don't need a comprehensive list of every way the b9 is apparently better but something tells me you couldn't give me that list anyway. That is, unless you copied and pasted.

Now, I didn't say you were single minded, I said your argument was. No reason to take things personally, this is the internet. However in regards to referring to me as hypocritical, I definitely am but that really isn't applicable in this case. I dont need to give examples... I'm not the one making claims such as "the new turbo s4 is superior in nearly every way" and "turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers."

[Zach L]

If you had given track time comparisons I wouldn't have called you out. So no, I don't need a comprehensive list of every way the b9 is apparently better but something tells me you couldn't give me that list anyway. That is, unless you copied and pasted.

Now, I didn't say you were single minded, I said your argument was. No reason to take things personally, this is the internet. However in regards to referring to me as hypocritical, I definitely am but that really isn't applicable in this case. I dont need to give examples... I'm not the one making claims such as "the new turbo s4 is superior in nearly every way" and "turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers."

You're applying a double standard now. My statement was a response to someone else's post, just as yours was a response to my statement. So why do you expect me to provide multiple examples for my disagreement when you provide none for your disagreement?

Now that I'm on a full desktop, I also see your signature and that explains how your ownership or a B8 S4 is clouding your ability to make an objective comparison between it and the B9 S4. Do you honestly believe Audi doesn't think about track times? If you think the B9 S4 is a slouch round a track, read either of these two articles:

http://www.motoring.com.au/audi-s4-a...k-test-106433/

“It’s just so perfectly rounded on the track; it does everything really well,” surmised Youlden. “All aspects of the chassis, the engine, the brakes and transmission are exceptionally good. It’s very much an under-the-radar track-day performer.”

https://www.slashgear.com/my-top-5-t...2016-29469278/

Don’t let the new S4 fool you into thinking it’s just a souped-up A4. It’s far from it. Powered by a new direct injection, turbocharged V6, it has 354 HP and 369 lb.-ft. of torque starting at an idle RPM of 650, then starts hauling past 1,350. It’s a showcase for Audi’s turbocharger know-how, and sure enough throughout the drive around the challenging Le Mans speedway, I noticed practically zero turbo lag, whether I was going turn to turn or flooring it on the straights.

[Casual Friday]

You're applying a double standard now. My statement was a response to someone else's post, just as yours was a response to my statement. So why do you expect me to provide multiple examples for my disagreement when you provide none for your disagreement?

Now that I'm on a full desktop, I also see your signature and that explains how your ownership or a B8 S4 is clouding your ability to make an objective comparison between it and the B9 S4. Do you honestly believe Audi doesn't think about track times? If you think the B9 S4 is a slouch round a track, read either of these two articles:

http://www.motoring.com.au/audi-s4-a...k-test-106433/


https://www.slashgear.com/my-top-5-t...2016-29469278/

The double standard doesn't apply either in this case as I am not disagreeing with you nor agreeing with you. I was simply calling you out for using broad statements such as "the new turbo s4 is superior in nearly every way" and "turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers" and then backing up those claims with 0-60 times.

Maybe owning a b8 s4 does make me partial to the supercharger, but the same connection certainly could be said about your signature and turbochargers... and we are back to where we started, its all personal preference.

I definitely don't believe the new b9 s4 is a slouch, however neither of those articles backs up your claims that "the new turbo s4 is superior in nearly every way" and "turbochargers are a step forward from superchargers."

I'm sure the b9 is a wonder to own (I wouldn't because no MT option) and I absolutely don't have any beef with turbochargers (b5 s4 is my favorite turbo platform). I just have a problem with people making broad claims of superiority without adequate evidence ( in this case a side by side comparison, preferably with track times included) and therefore decided to play devils advocate.

[AutoRacer100]

Do you guys agree with this statement?

All turbo has turbo lag more or less. Supercharger means instant power at all the time without lag.

[Townending]

Do you guys agree with this statement?

All turbo has turbo lag more or less. Supercharger means instant power at all the time without lag.

In most cases, yes.

There are roots superchargers that build boost linearly as the RPM's increase, this is what is commonly associated with superchargers.

Then there are centrifugal superchargers which build boost exponentially as RPMs increase, kinda like a turbo. These are essentially a belt driven turbo.

[AutoRacer100]

In most cases, yes.

There are roots superchargers that build boost linearly as the RPM's increase, this is what is commonly associated with superchargers.

Then there are centrifugal superchargers which build boost exponentially as RPMs increase, kinda like a turbo. These are essentially a belt driven turbo.

The S4 has the roots superchargers?

[adamazing]

The S4 has the roots superchargers?

Yes

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/OurCompan...Audi/index.htm

[Zach L]

Do you guys agree with this statement?

All turbo has turbo lag more or less. Supercharger means instant power at all the time without lag.

Compared to an electric motor, even a naturally aspirated engine has noticeable lag. There is time it takes for throttle bodies to open, injectors to open, fuel to ignite, piston to travel downward, etc. Drive an electric car and you'll be impressed with how insanely quick all the power is there when you have an electric motor practically hooked up directly to the wheels.

Yes a turbo will have a small amount of lag, but this is not the 1980's and the does of the old 911 Turbo. Turbocharger technology has come ahead lightyears, so that today we have nearly no turbo lag from factory turbos. They spool quickly while still being able to have enough flow at higher engine speeds. The latest EFR turbos from BorgWarner and GTX-series Gen II turbos from Garret/Honeywell are allowing enthusiasts to build even 'big turbo' engines that reach full boost at relatively low RPMs while still making power up top. A good example of this is the GTX2867r used in the 2.0T BOSS500 kit from CTS Turbo. It creates boost nearly as quickly as the stock turbo on the new S3/Golf R/GTI, yet has the capability to produce over 500 awhp and run quarter miles in the 10's.

[Townending]

The S4 has the roots superchargers?

Yes

Most often superchargers that are bolted where the intake manifold would go are roots.

Centrifugal superchargers are normally mounted off to the side of the engine. In the pic below, you will see the centrifugal supercharger to the right/front of the engine.