APB to BEL swap or rebuild?

[Teck09]

Hi all, new user here long time lurker. I finally decided to sign up and I am looking for some advice regarding my situation.

I drive a 2001.5 S4 that had what seemed to be an incurable misfire. Well I finally decided to open it up and found that it ate an exhaust cam follower. Looks like it is rebuild time as the cam has worn away a huge divot in the top of the follower, rounded off the cam lobe and I am sure there is metal floating around everywhere.

The situation I am in is this, do I rebuild my current motor which has 169k or buy a low mileage BEL Allroad swap? If I do go the Allroad route is it just a matter of swapping my current coils, valve covers etc to make it compatible with my chassis? If I decide to rebuild am I doing rings, bearings etc? I am not sure what these motors are good for mileage wise and whether or not it would even be coat effective to rebuild?

I come from the Honda world of tuning/modifying which is basically plug and play. Aside from the S4 my only eperience with the VW/Audi stuff is a full rebuild of a VR6 Jetta GLX I did last year. That turned out to be a nightmare flashing ecus, clusters etc. Although this site proved invaluable in my success with that project I would prefer not to have to mess with all of that in this case if possible.

While it is apart (and in the spirit of never being able to leave anything stock lol) I am debating going the K04 route and doing any other recommended mods that I should while the car is apart.

Basically I am asking what would you do? I appreciate the opinions and the time it took to read all of this. Cheers!

-Ryan

[CJ_]

Well the cost effective/simple solution is to just buy a late model apb engine. It has the 'bf' short block (same short block as BEL) with s4 heads. Just drop in and go.

If you do find a BEL, like you mentioned, its just a matter of swapping valve covers and wiring harnesses.

Mileage wise, these motors hold up for a long time, so rebuilding isn't a bad idea. Some guys have had the stock motor got for over 300k. Depends on what you want to do with the car. If you want to build the car up, while youre in there, I'd drop in rods, bearings, rings, and pick up some 2.8 heads with k24/rs6 turbos, but as you can see, it becomes a slippery slope fast.

[Xplycko]

Slippery my butt. It gets a 20% grade with astro glide.

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[Slickn]

Does this look familiar? Happened to me on my stage 3 2.7t c5 2 years ago. Let me guess... Middle cylinder on driver side? My lifter failure was due to the spring inside breaking. I replaced all six exhaust lifters on that side, along with a used exhaust cam. Been running fine for the past 12k miles. I wasn't too worried about metal shavings since they drop to the sump from the head, and then should be either in the oil pan or in the oil filter.

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[oppositelock]

Just replace the cam and followers with a matched used set. I believe celison did this and it worked out fine.

[Teck09]

If you do find a BEL, like you mentioned, its just a matter of swapping valve covers and wiring harnesses.

Some guys have had the stock motor got for over 300k......

I'd drop in rods, bearings, rings, and pick up some 2.8 heads with k24/rs6 turbos, but as you can see, it becomes a slippery slope fast.

Thanks, it looks like I have some choices then.

I can source a low mileage BEL swap locally for around 1k. The rebuild option is intriguing though as I am a glutton for never ending projects.

Through my limited research it looks like I could do rings, rods and bearing for about the same price as the swap. The turbos, fueling and engine management however are another story. Obviously the swap is easir/quicker but when is that ever fun lol.

Does this look familiar? Happened to me on my stage 3 2.7t c5 2 years ago. Let me guess... Middle cylinder on driver side? My lifter failure was due to the spring inside breaking. I replaced all six exhaust lifters on that side, along with a used exhaust cam. Been running fine for the past 12k miles. I wasn't too worried about metal shavings since they drop to the sump from the head, and then should be either in the oil pan or in the oil filter.
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That is EXACTLY what it looks like. Mine failed on the furthest forward cylinder and valve on the drivers side. Haven't pulled the cam yet but I anticipate similar carnage. My initial thought was to drop the pan, clean as best I could and replace the lifter and cam. Sounds like I wasn't too far off. Good to know, thanks!

[blitz2190]

I had the same problem a while back, got all new cam followers for the exhaust cam and a used cam, polished up the cam with 5micron paper and it ran great.

[Mille Bornes]

fwiw, I got a BEL for $400 from a local salvage yard. It had kinda high mileage but if you're going to do new rings, bearings, etc, you're going to end up with pretty much a new engine anyways

[Teck09]

I had the same problem a while back, got all new cam followers for the exhaust cam and a used cam, polished up the cam with 5micron paper and it ran great.

fwiw, I got a BEL for $400 from a local salvage yard. It had kinda high mileage but if you're going to do new rings, bearings, etc, you're going to end up with pretty much a new engine anyways

I am leaning towards a used cam and follower to get back on the road, picking up a BEL to build out of the car and doing the swap when it's done. Thanks for all of the advice everyone.

[blitz2190]

Do yourself a favor and get all 6 followers they should be matched to the cam or new if not. I think i paid 11 per follower. Make sure all the surfaces are good and use a good assembly lube and you should be good.

[Teck09]

For sure, thanks for the heads up.

[Xplycko]

My local pull a part does all 6 cyl engines for around $250. You have to pull it yourself but they supply a hoist and will forklift it to your vehicle. I have dealt with them for this on 3 occasions when I was into building ls engines.

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[Teck09]

My local pull a part does all 6 cyl engines for around $250. You have to pull it yourself but they supply a hoist and will forklift it to your vehicle. I have dealt with them for this on 3 occasions when I was into building ls engines.

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Wow, I need to move to Tennessee. The yards around here treat anything foreign like gold.

[Mille Bornes]

Wow, I need to move to Tennessee. The yards around here treat anything foreign like gold.

Are you aware of car-part.com? If not, check it out. It makes finding reasonably priced used parts very easy. I got my BEL long block and 2.8 heads for $650 all together. Since I work at a shop, they were even delivered free from 45 miles away.

[Teck09]

Are you aware of car-part.com? If not, check it out. It makes finding reasonably priced used parts very easy. I got my BEL long block and 2.8 heads for $650 all together. Since I work at a shop, they were even delivered free from 45 miles away.

Thats a pretty good price. I usually just search locally on there to avoid shipping. I plan to give it another look now that I know what direction I am heading.

[Xplycko]

If that's the case im going to pull some engines and resale them lol.

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[blitz2190]

If that's the case im going to pull some engines and resale them lol.

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I have multiple running ones in my area going for 300-500 depending on the mileage, the one i just finished building i picked up for 300 complete with turbos and harness with 140k miles.

[Xplycko]

Well you just killed that idea lol.

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[cjt671]

Also went through this, and ended up replacing all lifters and the cams.. cars been running normally since. About 10k miles now and I'm about to upgrade turbos on it..

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[RocksForsSale]

By cam followers, you guys are referring to lifters right?


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[Teck09]

By cam followers, you guys are referring to lifters right?


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Yeah. I think Audi calls them hydraulic lifters. I always wondered why they called them lifters, more like pushers if you ask me lol.

This failure seems to be a somewhat common issue that is more prone to happen on the drivers side. Do you guys think it is an oiling issue or a component material issue?

[RocksForsSale]

I'm not sure what I have going on but randomly I get a misfire only in cyl 4 (drivers side) on cold starts. I ruled out plugs and coilpack, compression test was a bit high like 220 or so on that cylinder. It was also the first one I did and didn't run the car out of fuel like I should have. I pulled the fuel pump fuse and cam position sensor, I guess that doesn't knock it out quite right away. I did it twice, again after running through each of the cylinders, replacing the plug. It went away for a week after I replaced the plug.

So it's either leaky injector, HG or a valve train issue (lifter) it goes away after 10 secs and lately hasn't been doing it all all... I should check the icm's, that could be an issue as well. But pass side was 180 across the board but drivers side was slightly higher, with cyl 4 being a lot higher. Just to shed some light on your drivers side issue. Once it runs for a few seconds/ lubricates "pumps up" or evacuates whatever's in the cylinder it's a non issue until an overnight cold start. Hasn't been much of an issue now that it's warmer out. 🤷🏻*♂️


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