Beware the Schwaben pinch weld "protector"

[Jeff V.]

My S5 is the first car I've owned that doesn't have easily available, flat jacking points. So I did the needful and bought a Schwaben pinch weld protector from ECS Tuning.

I don't think this is how it's supposed to work.



To their credit, it didn't immediately split in half like I expected it to. But it was smashed down so thin, with the flat parts never actually touching the body of the car, that I may was well have just used my bare jack pad directly on the pinch weld.

This is more like how I was expecting it to work. The factory scissor jack is built to work like this as well.



This is a Flyin Miata pinch weld adapter. I measured the pinch weld on my car at ~3/4", so this should work fine.

Or I could just gouge a groove out of a hockey puck.

Either way, I'm not trusting my car to this tool again.

[DontHait]

I use a hockey puck with no issues


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[JTFisch90]

I use a hockey puck with no issues


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Seconded.

[shyamvenky]

Seconded.

Thirded :)

I've used hockey pucks for my Audi TT as well as the A5

[julianwhitta]

Fourthed!

[JettaGetUpandGo]

I just got the jack pad from PureMS for mine and it works as it should. The groove is deeper which puts pressure on the floor pan instead of the pinch weld. No metal, so no worries about taking off the undercoat.

I learned my lesson after bending the pinch weld on my Jetta flat over many years of floor jack use.

Where are you guys putting jack stands? I've only done quick wheel/tire changes so far and relied on the jack, but didn't see anything underneath that I would feel comfortable putting a stand under.

[Jeff V.]

This is a Sportback, but the bottom of my S5 is very similar. It's just missing those long braces that run diagonally at the rear.

Here's what I did with mine.

Jack the car up at the pinchwelds (green). I was able to get the whole side of my car up using the front jack point, but you may need to use the rear one to get everything leveled out.
Place a backup jackstand under something solid just in case the jack fails while you do this part
DO NOT CRAWL UNDER THE CAR AT THIS POINT
Reach your arm, and ONLY your arm, under the car to remove the two plastic covers in blue. Each one has one captive 10mm nut, and one plastic push fastener.
This will expose the inner frame rails. It's a large, flat and level surfact that's perfect for a jackstand. Remove your backup jackstand and place jackstands in locations marked in red.
I'm really not happy with the rear location. Those subframe joints are round, and don't sit on the jackstands as well as I'd like. I think the subframe itself is ok, but I need to get them seated better.
I actually have all 4 wheels still on the car, and I've got backup jackstands sitting the pinch weld jack points with about an inch of gap. It'd probably tear up the car if it fell, but I'll take that trade off in a heartbeat if it keeps me out of the ER or the morgue.



I've seen other people use the rear control arm bushing as a jack point, but I'd rather use a fixed point on the frame or sub-frame.

[BlueStar]

@Jeff V., thanks for the jacking recommendations and diagram. Is the Schwaben gizmo made out of plastic? The Flyin' Miata looks like a better made tool, but will it work on top of the Audi-supplied scissors jack? Or might it slip off the jack at some point?

[shyamvenky]

Thanks Jeff!
From a lot of the threads I read on getting the A5 up on jack stands, this is the first one that actually pointed out the locations! :)
Does the captive nut need a wrench/socket to remove or just by hand? Is it possible to feel the nut just by hand, so that it can be be removed even before jacking the side up?

I need to swap the spacers between front and rear in my car (PO chose to go with 20/15 F/R for reasons only known to him)
I was thinking I would use the factory scissor jack and do it wheel by wheel, but now I think I can do one entire side at a time.

[Jeff V.]

@Jeff V., thanks for the jacking recommendations and diagram. Is the Schwaben gizmo made out of plastic? The Flyin' Miata looks like a better made tool, but will it work on top of the Audi-supplied scissors jack? Or might it slip off the jack at some point?

It's a soft rubber. Not spongy, but not nearly as hard as a hockey puck. The FM tool isn't meant for a scissor jack. It sits on a normal floor jack, just like the Schwaben tool is supposed to do. There's other rubber pinch weld adapters with a harder rubber and a deeper groove, but even they have problems with distortion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR3oo8s83vk

Thanks Jeff!
From a lot of the threads I read on getting the A5 up on jack stands, this is the first one that actually pointed out the locations! :)
Does the captive nut need a wrench/socket to remove or just by hand? Is it possible to feel the nut just by hand, so that it can be be removed even before jacking the side up?

I noticed that a lot of people are vague when talking about jacking these cars up. I don't know if it's just liability paranoia or what. I'm just a long time DIY enthusiast with no credentials whatsoever. Part of the reason I posted this was to get feedback and see if there's a better, safer way to do this.

You can feel the captive nut pretty easily. Mine came off easily with just a 1/4" ratchet and a deep socket. You might be able to do it with just a bare socket if your car doesn't have a lot of road crud built up. The push fastener comes off with a flat blade screwdriver. You pull the 'core' out and then the rest of it just pops out. If your car isn't slammed, you could probably get to it while the car is still on the ground. I'll take some better pictures tomorrow. I think I'm also going to remove the plastic at the rear and see if I can find some more flat frame rail spots.

I was thinking I would use the factory scissor jack and do it wheel by wheel, but now I think I can do one entire side at a time.

Please just put SOME kind of backup under the car, just in case. Whether it's a jackstand, a 2nd jack, a spare tire...just something to reduce or eliminate how far it can fall if the jack fails.

[JettaGetUpandGo]

Thank you sir. I had no idea those two locations in the front existed under the plastic cover.

[JamesRS5]

Jeff, it looks like you've fitted it the wrong way round. I have one of these and it fits over the pinch weld nicely.

[Jeff V.]

I'm not sure how that's possible. The only other grooves are two shallow V grooves in the bottom that are meant to secure it to a jackstand.

[Brozee]

Can anyone recommend one that actually does work and possibly a link as to where to buy it?

[JettaGetUpandGo]

Can anyone recommend one that actually does work and possibly a link as to where to buy it?

This is the one I just bought and works well. There are a couple of different sizes depending on your floor jack:

http://www.purems.com/Products/PROTE...-Lift-Jack-Pad

[Brozee]

This is the one I just bought and works well. There are a couple of different sizes depending on your floor jack:

http://www.purems.com/Products/PROTE...-Lift-Jack-Pad

Which size one did you get? There are two options.

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[shyamvenky]

That depends on your jack's saddle size - their pictures explain it better.

If the diameter of your jack's saddle is less than 3.25", then get 1007 (Outside)
If the diameter is more than 4.625", then get 1006 - the adapter will sit within the bounds of your jack pad.

[Jeff V.]

I thought I hit the jackpot tonight, but it wasn't meant to be. I pulled the covers ahead of the rear wheels and found what I thought was a perfect support point. It actually looks like one of the places where they supported the car while it was on the assembly line. It's the flat part with two holes, where I've got the jackstand placed.



As soon as I put the weight of the car on it, it flexed in a way I wasn't comfortable with. It didn't do any damage, but I didn't want it sitting like that long term. If I had a jackstand with a bigger pad, it would probably have worked just fine. The big black brace won't work either. There's nothing above it, and it's not very thick. It's just some kind of stiffening brace for the rear subframe.

So I went back to the original spots I picked on the rear subframe. It's not perfect, but it'll have to do. I gave the car a pretty solid shake, and it didn't budge. I've still got another set of stands positioned right under the pinch welds as a failsafe.



This is the front position. It's rock solid.

[shyamvenky]

Thanks again for the detailed pictures Jeff. Now I have much more clarity about the placements.

I'm a bit paranoid about trusting jacks and jack stands. I never do anything under the car with just a jack supporting the weight.
I take the spare wheel and stick it under the car as a backup always. These are things where you don't want to take a chance.

It may have been spoken about on the threads here at some point, but I have thought a bit about getting a set of JackPoint jack stands - but a bit too pricey for the amount of work I do on the car.

[RVJ]

Jeff, it looks like you've fitted it the wrong way round. I have one of these and it fits over the pinch weld nicely.

Had the same thought. I use one and never had an issue.


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[SR7D1]

What happened to me was a little worse. I had been using one of these:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It slipped once and caught on the lower blade. I figured that I just had it positioned wrong, then it happened once again on the opposite side. So I bought this one, and have not had any issues since:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[The Flash]

after the pinch weld cut the hockey puck in half
i took a new hockey puck and cut it in half
took a second one and screwed the 2 halves on to it leaving a gap for the pinch weld
worked like a champ and the lower hockey puck is still intact because the weight is sitting on the top one
i saw this in in pic some where

oh basically i made this with 2 hockey pucks https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[wtrsxn]

I thought I hit the jackpot tonight, but it wasn't meant to be. I pulled the covers ahead of the rear wheels and found what I thought was a perfect support point. It actually looks like one of the places where they supported the car while it was on the assembly line. It's the flat part with two holes, where I've got the jackstand placed.



As soon as I put the weight of the car on it, it flexed in a way I wasn't comfortable with. It didn't do any damage, but I didn't want it sitting like that long term. If I had a jackstand with a bigger pad, it would probably have worked just fine. The big black brace won't work either. There's nothing above it, and it's not very thick. It's just some kind of stiffening brace for the rear subframe.

So I went back to the original spots I picked on the rear subframe. It's not perfect, but it'll have to do. I gave the car a pretty solid shake, and it didn't budge. I've still got another set of stands positioned right under the pinch welds as a failsafe.



This is the front position. It's rock solid.

thanks for the pics.

[Jeff V.]

after the pinch weld cut the hockey puck in half
i took a new hockey puck and cut it in half
took a second one and screwed the 2 halves on to it leaving a gap for the pinch weld
worked like a champ and the lower hockey puck is still intact because the weight is sitting on the top one
i saw this in in pic some where

oh basically i made this with 2 hockey pucks https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's what the Schwaben tool is supposed to be. But the groove isn't deep enough. It's ~1/2". The pinch weld on my car is ~3/4". Add that to how soft the rubber is, and it nearly gets pinched in half when you put a load on it.

[milesed]

Anyone know if there is a jack point that allows lifting the entire front or rear at once?

[Brozee]

That depends on your jack's saddle size - their pictures explain it better.

If the diameter of your jack's saddle is less than 3.25", then get 1007 (Outside)
If the diameter is more than 4.625", then get 1006 - the adapter will sit within the bounds of your jack pad.

Thanks, it ended up being 1006. They want $13 shipping. Half the price of the product! I'll buy one elsewhere for a 1/3 of the cost. Just have to find one lol...

[JettaGetUpandGo]

Thanks, it ended up being 1006. They want $13 shipping. Half the price of the product! I'll buy one elsewhere for a 1/3 of the cost. Just have to find one lol...

I tried looking elsewhere too. I found a couple of other places that sold it, but shipping was the same. I have two floor jacks, so I bought two of them. It's rare that I'll ever need the second at the same time, but it the first one wears out over time I'll have a backup.

[Jeff V.]

Got the Flyin Miata tool on Friday. It fits great. The center groove is about twice as deep as the Schwaben puck.

Also, I lowered my transmission out of the car yesterday. I'm gaining more confidence in my jackstand points. It's been solid the whole time.

[avimore]

Got the Flyin Miata tool on Friday. It fits great. The center groove is about twice as deep as the Schwaben puck.

I'm thinking of getting the FM tool also. Do you know if it can go directly on the jack saddle (metal on metal), or do you need to get a rubber pad for the saddle?

[ColtS5]

This is the one I just bought and works well. There are a couple of different sizes depending on your floor jack:

http://www.purems.com/Products/PROTE...-Lift-Jack-Pad

2nd, I have used this without issues. I also have used stands at the rear control arm locations.

[ColtS5]

Anyone know if there is a jack point that allows lifting the entire front or rear at once?

With my '09 S5 I used to lift the rear from the rear diff, but used a block of wood to read the load. I have the Sport Diff on my '15, and decided not to try it.

[Wantboost]

I know this is a old thread. I have a shwanben adapter. Its not deep enough, it actually damages the protective paint on the car . I noticed that the rubber is so soft that when u jack up one wheel it actually flexes alot .
This is my concern woth the other 2 deeper ones available at flying miata and purems. Are they soft or hard rubber . If feel if it soft and deep will be unsafe and flex too much. There's even a YouTube video showing this . Any way which do u guys recommend??

https://youtu.be/BR3oo8s83vk

Thx



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[old guy]

If you take a really close look at the OEM emergency jack you will notice that it does all the lifting on the inside of the pinch weld. It does not contact the body anywhere on the outside of the pinch weld. The "U" shape is for location only. Consequently when using a floor jack you only need a block to contact the inner rail on the body. No need to touch the pinch weld or the surface on the outside of the pinch weld.



Here's what I have used on my A4 and A5 for years. The block fits snugly in the inner channel inside the pinch weld exactly where the OEM jack lifts. It is very secure and my pinch welds still look pristine;-)

[JAudi23]

Isn't wood one if the worst things to use to raise a car?? I'm not sure I'd trust wood for this.

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[JettaGetUpandGo]

Isn't wood one if the worst things to use to raise a car?? I'm not sure I'd trust wood for this.

If the pinch weld is running perpendicular to the grain of the wood it is very very unlikely that the wood will split. If the pinch weld is running parallel with the grain or resting on the end grain there is a relatively good chance it will split (and has to be before).

[JAudi23]

You have a point there with perpendicular to the grain. But does everyone think like you? That's my concern, someone who has no idea, grabs a block of wood, and splits it the first time they are under the car. Instant nose job.

[JettaGetUpandGo]

You have a point there with perpendicular to the grain. But does everyone think like you? That's my concern, someone who has no idea, grabs a block of wood, and splits it the first time they are under the car. Instant nose job.

I'm not saying it's a good idea, but before I got a Protech jack pad adapter for the pinch weld I frequently used a block of wood for lifting to set the car on jackstands or for a quick wheel change. Rotated the wood 90 degrees on accident once. Cracked before the wheel was even off the ground. Went inside and ordered the jack pad adapter.

[Wantboost]

How deep is the slot on the one from purems?
Also for those of u just using hockey pucks I assume u guys cut a groove ?

I just got the jack pad from PureMS for mine and it works as it should. The groove is deeper which puts pressure on the floor pan instead of the pinch weld. No metal, so no worries about taking off the undercoat.

I learned my lesson after bending the pinch weld on my Jetta flat over many years of floor jack use.

Where are you guys putting jack stands? I've only done quick wheel/tire changes so far and relied on the jack, but didn't see anything underneath that I would feel comfortable putting a stand under.

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[Wantboost]

What did u use to cut the pucks and then what did u use to glue them onto the other

after the pinch weld cut the hockey puck in half
i took a new hockey puck and cut it in half
took a second one and screwed the 2 halves on to it leaving a gap for the pinch weld
worked like a champ and the lower hockey puck is still intact because the weight is sitting on the top one
i saw this in in pic some where

oh basically i made this with 2 hockey pucks https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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[Wantboost]

Schwaben lift pad damaged all my factory rubberized undercoating since it's not deep enough. Any advice how to repair ??

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