FRANKEN TURBO F21? or RS6 HYBRID?

[renikush]

So i got my hands on a beautiful laser red S4 B5. My question to the mass's is give me insight on both setups. i will be stage 3ing the car, with stock internals (for now) but what is going to be a more reliable,more power,bang for my buck way to go. It seems that the Frankenturbos are cheaper than the JHM RS4 HYBRID KIT, With the JHM Motorsports kit i will have to buy the turbo kit plus fueling kit,around 5,000 give or take, the Frankenturbos about 1800 for the bolt ons but i still need meth kit and ecu tune plus supporting mods, BUT WICH ONE IS THE FUNNEST RELIABLE KIT!!!!PLEASE Audi Family,, give me your input and knowledge so that i can build the proper tune, This laser red has been waiting to be driven , 4 CIRCLES!!!!!!

[armageddon-]

Neither, just get BW k04 from rs4 or rs6

[renikush]

Neither, just get BW k04 from rs4 or rs6

so just go with the ko4 stage 3 your saying? can i achieve 450 hp to the wheel?

[FlyboyS4]

So i got my hands on a beautiful laser red S4 B5. My question to the mass's is give me insight on both setups. i will be stage 3ing the car, with stock internals (for now) but what is going to be a more reliable,more power,bang for my buck way to go. It seems that the Frankenturbos are cheaper than the JHM RS4 HYBRID KIT, With the JHM Motorsports kit i will have to buy the turbo kit plus fueling kit,around 5,000 give or take, the Frankenturbos about 1800 for the bolt ons but i still need meth kit and ecu tune plus supporting mods, BUT WICH ONE IS THE FUNNEST RELIABLE KIT!!!!PLEASE Audi Family,, give me your input and knowledge so that i can build the proper tune, This laser red has been waiting to be driven , 4 CIRCLES!!!!!!

More reliable and more power don't really go hand in hand, and fun depends on how you like to operate the car.

For cheap power in the size range you're proposing the Project B5 RS6-X is marketed as being the equivalent to the JHM but less cost.

The RS6 and it's hybrids will make more power than the K04 and it's hybrids.

[vavJETTAw36]

You'll sit around 380-400whp on k04s on 93 octane near sea level. Bump that up to about 450-500 on e85 depending on how conservatively you want to tune.

The rs6's will yield ~500whp on 91 octane and ~600whp on e85. But if you aren't doing bottom end, you'll want to sit in the 400-500whp range.

If you don't plan to upgrade internals, I'd go f21 or k04. My 2 cents.


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[Mille Bornes]

Personally, I would go for the RS6's. I have F21's on 93 with meth and put down 420whp/430wtq, which is great. But, in hindsight, I wish I had stepped up to walk the line a little more.

[Corradovolksb]

I have SRM K24 rs6 hybrids and I am very happy with how they perform. On 91 I'm at around 420hp and e54 I'm at 480hp only log calculated hp but I hope to hit the dyno soon. They spool well and I hit full boost by 4200rpm. You will need a bigger Maf housing, injectors and fuel pump plus intercoolers and a tune to achieve your power goal so keep that in mind. F21s and K04s are really good turbos and can make close to your power goal on E85 or 93oct plus water meth. If you need help with a tune let me know.

[evilgti84]

I really enjoy my F21's. I have a stock internal engine and at 27psi on 93 octane with meth my car put down 428whp and 460wtq. and the spool is much better than rs6 size turbos, which is great for me because my focus was everyday driving in city and track days. my goal is 450whp and there is still some left in the tune and we really haven't pushed the tune to work with the meth yet.

[kingkhalilz]

In my opinion it all depends on what fuel you will run. rs6 hybrids I would only run if I was using e85, because you trade no power down low for not enough up high to make up for it. Now on e85 you make enough up high to make up for not enough down low. If 93 or 91 octane I would do franken or some k04 base turbo, more balanced. Just my opinion on how I would like to the car to perform.

Absolutely hated rs6 hybrids on 91/93. Total garbage of a set up, and those turbos are way overrated on 91/93 oct. My opinion

[Drehmoment]

Most whp estimates in this thread are overly optimistic. Just slapping on some brand x chicom turbo with E85 which is essentially race gas netting 600 whp is a absolute pipe dream. It takes a lot of effort to get there and the turbos are the smallest puzzle in the quest.

[snolvr]

Renikush- there are a lot of solid suggestions in this thread so far. One piece of the puzzle that you may really want to remember is that you're in Denver as am I. Your spool time will be much later in the rpm band than at sea level. The larger the turbo, the more you move that bell curve to the right. I am very happy with my FT21's(K04 like spool with a bit more up top) with all the supporting hardware AND a proper TUNE! Do not underestimate the need and value of a proper tune. Period. Especially at elevation. Just my $.02

[manimal]

If you do K04's you can always do the fueling later and just have a stage 3- tune (I am not sure if you can do this with FT21's but assume you can) it saves a bit of money on the front end if you need to. I debated the same as you and am VERY happy with my choice, I might go with FT21's if I had to do it again but now I have all the supporting mods (fueling, intake, intercooler, exhaust, and tune) it is a lot of fun.

[S4James]

there is a nice rs6/k24 build here, no dyno numbers yet but 2.9 FATS on 93....

thats a lot faster than my old k04/rs6 93/meth setup that ran about 420whp and 3.5 FATS

stock bottom end.

[renikush]

In my opinion it all depends on what fuel you will run. rs6 hybrids I would only run if I was using e85, because you trade no power down low for not enough up high to make up for it. Now on e85 you make enough up high to make up for not enough down low. If 93 or 91 octane I would do franken or some k04 base turbo, more balanced. Just my opinion on how I would like to the car to perform.

Absolutely hated rs6 hybrids on 91/93. Total garbage of a set up, and those turbos are way overrated on 91/93 oct. My opinion

very good information, and that is a very important tip as well because i will be keeping it at 91 octane, so picking the most compatible turbo is important .THANK YOU!!

[renikush]

Renikush- there are a lot of solid suggestions in this thread so far. One piece of the puzzle that you may really want to remember is that you're in Denver as am I. Your spool time will be much later in the rpm band than at sea level. The larger the turbo, the more you move that bell curve to the right. I am very happy with my FT21's(K04 like spool with a bit more up top) with all the supporting hardware AND a proper TUNE! Do not underestimate the need and value of a proper tune. Period. Especially at elevation. Just my $.02

awesome to hear that and great information as that is also a big factor in our location,, i was leaning over to the Franken turbos, they do spool up a bit quicker than the ko4's and i am mostly a city/highway pull driver, they seemed to fit the spot, and a bit more cheaper, evnthough i do need to still buy edu ship maf and all the supporting mods,, as it sits, it has jmh fmic - h&r coil overs - dv- turbo timer - and thats it, its never been tuned, and i understand i can tune anywhere from a stage 1-2+ tunes with the franken turbos as well.....

[renikush]

You'll sit around 380-400whp on k04s on 93 octane near sea level. Bump that up to about 450-500 on e85 depending on how conservatively you want to tune.

The rs6's will yield ~500whp on 91 octane and ~600whp on e85. But if you aren't doing bottom end, you'll want to sit in the 400-500whp range.

If you don't plan to upgrade internals, I'd go f21 or k04. My 2 cents.


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the rs6 turbo kit will 500 to the wheel?/ just bolt on and all supporting mods? no internals?

[renikush]

if i can build at least a 480- 500 WHP with stock bottom end , IM IN.

[vavJETTAw36]

Yes you can get 500+ with supporting mods. In whatever setup you do, ~500 is approaching the max the rods can handle. This is not the exact number but just a rough rough figure. There's too many variables to know that.


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[bmoreS4]

Ive been Stage 3 for 2 years, I'm on OEM Ko4s. The car is great, zero issues, 400whp.

But i have the itch, I am thinking of jumping to the K24s

http://sillyrabbitmotorsport.com/rs6-billet-turbo

Ive gotten used to the power and I want more, Im putting in a WMI kit nest week, so we will see how long that keeps me happy.

[FlyboyS4]

awesome to hear that and great information as that is also a big factor in our location,, i was leaning over to the Franken turbos, they do spool up a bit quicker than the ko4's and i am mostly a city/highway pull driver, they seemed to fit the spot, and a bit more cheaper, evnthough i do need to still buy edu ship maf and all the supporting mods,, as it sits, it has jmh fmic - h&r coil overs - dv- turbo timer - and thats it, its never been tuned, and i understand i can tune anywhere from a stage 1-2+ tunes with the franken turbos as well.....

The F21 does not spool up quicker than BW K04.

A decent tight budget alternative to the BW K04 is Turbo Concepts Stage 1 turbo.

If you're still on a stock tune I think you're getting ahead of yourself making Stage 3 plans. Get an aggressive Stage 2 tune and start seeing what breaks so when you go to stage 3 you have less fixes to make.

[01audia4]

Most whp estimates in this thread are overly optimistic. Just slapping on some brand x chicom turbo with E85 which is essentially race gas netting 600 whp is a absolute pipe dream. It takes a lot of effort to get there and the turbos are the smallest puzzle in the quest.

Haha seriously I'm reading through this thread thinking to myself get real.

IMO having both turbos (well SRM x JHM) and F21. For a stock block car the F21 on e85 is a lot more fun, spool is great and they rev our pretty good for stock heads too.

If you go built block and heads / rev that thing out to 8k get bigger turbos. Sure you can have more WHP with the JHM and stock block but it's gonna come on later and will be most fun on just the highway.


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[renikush]

Haha seriously I'm reading through this thread thinking to myself get real.

IMO having both turbos (well SRM x JHM) and F21. For a stock block car the F21 on e85 is a lot more fun, spool is great and they rev our pretty good for stock heads too.

If you go built block and heads / rev that thing out to 8k get bigger turbos. Sure you can have more WHP with the JHM and stock block but it's gonna come on later and will be most fun on just the highway.

..


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im leaning towards this way,but i am not fully informed about e85..is it a type of gas that i now need to only put in? or is it mixed with my gas ?// inform me please. ..

[renikush]

Ive been Stage 3 for 2 years, I'm on OEM Ko4s. The car is great, zero issues, 400whp.

But i have the itch, I am thinking of jumping to the K24s

http://sillyrabbitmotorsport.com/rs6-billet-turbo

Ive gotten used to the power and I want more, Im putting in a WMI kit nest week, so we will see how long that keeps me happy.

i checked out the site,, are these pretty reliable?/ i can get a bigger turbo with them..