Downpipe install hours

[kpriv]

Since downpipes seem to be a topic du jour these days, I'd be interested in understanding how many labor hours folks are being quoted on their install. I have two quotes - one for 9 labor hours and another for 13 labor hours

That said, I get that the installers I'm speaking with don't do a lot of installs given this is socal so difficult to have enough reps to bring down the hours.

What are you all seeing? I'm curious to see how far on the high end of the spectrum the 9 hrs is or whether that is close enough to reasonable to take the plunge...

[moonlights4]

I was just quoted 3-4 hours by my local APR shop. I suspect they have reasonably high volume as they are the only major VAG/Porsche tuner in the Kansas City metro area/region.


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[cobrario]

I was quoted 5-5.5 Hours by an APR shop recently when I had my Stage 1 done- about $500 Labor here in the Metro DC Area.

[DGVR6]

I'll be doing my own install.. I'll probably post a DIY within the next month

I'll let u know my estimate lol

[kpriv]

About as I expected on the shop hours. We'll see where others shake out in the range.

I looked at one of the other DIYs but would be very interested to get updated/real time views of how much of a pita it is getting in there and securing all the bolts with no leaks, etc. For $1k install cost, might be worth it to try (though last time I did exhaust work was a catless h-pipe on a cobra 15 years ago... so I'm probably best off paying the money and saving myself the grief)

[nefkntym]

You have a link to that DIY? My downpipes are scheduled to show up tomorrow. Thinking I might start on this Saturday afternoon. It would be nice to get a feel for it before I start it.

At least it will be easier than yanking out my 2.7T and ripping it apart to do rods and rings for new turbos. I will probably start that next week.

[DGVR6]

You have a link to that DIY? My downpipes are scheduled to show up tomorrow. Thinking I might start on this Saturday afternoon. It would be nice to get a feel for it before I start it.

At least it will be easier than yanking out my 2.7T and ripping it apart to do rods and rings for new turbos. I will probably start that next week.

http://manuals.goapr.com/Engine_Hard..._downpipes.pdf

[nefkntym]

http://manuals.goapr.com/Engine_Hard..._downpipes.pdf

Damn good idea. Thank you kind sir!!

[Brooklyn]

I was quoted 5-5.5 Hours by an APR shop recently when I had my Stage 1 done- about $500 Labor here in the Metro DC Area.

Where'd you get that quote brother? I seem to recall NGP quoting me about $1k on the install.

[DGVR6]

Damn good idea. Thank you kind sir!!

No Let us know how it went

[moonlights4]

Yeah my understanding is $400-$500 for the install


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[nefkntym]

No Let us know how it went

Will do, already downloaded and looked it over. Seems pretty straight forward and in some ways, it looks easier than the downpipe install I did on my old S3.

[OlyS6]

Funny,

My downpipes are due to arrive tomorrow as well. The APR instructions seem fairly well laid out, and without a need to move or tilt the engine. Although APR says to budget 5-6 hours for the install as everything is made-to-fit/bolt on, if I do it myself I'd probably budget close to 10... Having access to a lift rather than just jackstands would obviously make it much easier- for that reason alone I may just bite the bullet and have a local shop do it. Anybody else also adding O2 spacers on the rear O2 sensors?

[nefkntym]

I was actually just told by EPL to not use a spacer. Luckily, I have a lift in my garage.

[kpriv]

http://manuals.goapr.com/Engine_Hard..._downpipes.pdf

Thanks for the manual. I swear I saw a diy write-up on here somewhere in which the person said they had one issue with getting a bolt to fit on re-install. I recall reading they said it turned the relatively straight-forward 4-6 hr job into 8-10 hrs because they had to do the typical run to the store to find a replacement bolt after fiddling with the stock one for an hour or so.

Flipping through the manual perhaps this was the spring bolt that attaches to the transmission. Or perhaps I'm mis-remembering because I cannot find the post anywhere using the forum search.

Anyhow, I agree that this might be worth a shot in the garage vs. spending a grand...

[OlyS6]

I was actually just told by EPL to not use a spacer. Luckily, I have a lift in my garage.

Not sure why they'd say that, as my understanding is that you'll repeatedly throw CELs without them given that the cats are moved significantly away from the engine compared to the stock downpipes and will run colder. Did they give a rationale? So far Sportline has been able to go a few hundred kilometers on his with the Vibrant J-shaped spacers and the smallest restrictors, and has not thrown any CELs. Shouldn't change the actual functionality of anything, although there are some folks on these threads that don't feel the spacers would be enough to fool the timing and differences between the upstream and downstream sensors. Regardless, they'd be simple enough to remove (or change the size of the restrictors in them) if need be.

[Nick@E1motorsports]

For what it's worth - as we had the opportunity to sell most of you guys your Downpipes (thank you!!) we charge $850 for install here in Texas - at about 7 hours. Some of your guys getting quoted 3-4hrs or $500 bucks - DO IT.


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[cobrario]

Where'd you get that quote brother? I seem to recall NGP quoting me about $1k on the install.

Maybe I didn't understand correctly but I thought it was about $2600 for the DP & install- I'll check again to be sure.

[moonlights4]

My apologies, I just realized I underquoted by about an hour. He said 3-4 hours longer than to flash alone, which was 1-1.5 hours for ECU/TCU. So that would make 4-5.5 hours total I suppose. Seems in line with cobrario's quote.


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[mihneagabriel]

I was actually just told by EPL to not use a spacer. Luckily, I have a lift in my garage.

IDK who you talked to but Cost @ EPL told me to use spacers as they do not disable the rear sensors like APR does.

I think I'm going to do the install myself. It doesn't look too hard and I'll be doing the exhaust at the same time so I can tear everything out and put the new stuff in.

While we're on this subject. Anyone wrap their downpipes and the front part of their exhaust? The stock exhaust gets the floorboard really hot on long drives. Looking to stop that

[kpriv]

Sounds like at some point soon with all the downpipe activity we're going to have a couple good DIY write-ups for the rest of us to use!

[nefkntym]

IDK who you talked to but Cost @ EPL told me to use spacers as they do not disable the rear sensors like APR does.

I think I'm going to do the install myself. It doesn't look too hard and I'll be doing the exhaust at the same time so I can tear everything out and put the new stuff in.

While we're on this subject. Anyone wrap their downpipes and the front part of their exhaust? The stock exhaust gets the floorboard really hot on long drives. Looking to stop that

I think it was a hurried email with a double negative because it really doesn't make sense. Either way I was going to install them anyway and being that we don't have emissions or visual inspections here there is no reason not to.

Edit: I actually just ordered those same J shaped spacers and they will show up on Friday.

[OlyS6]

I think it was a hurried email with a double negative because it really doesn't make sense. Either way I was going to install them anyway and being that we don't have emissions or visual inspections here there is no reason not to.

Edit: I actually just ordered those same J shaped spacers and they will show up on Friday.

Cool- good luck everyone- I think I may try the install myself this weekend- turns out I have access to a local garage with multiple lifts and can rent a bay for dirt cheap- should be fun.
Also, for those of you using spacers, I plan on using the smallest flow restrictor, same as others have posted. I'll try to take a bunch of pictures during the install for anything not self explanatory in the APR instructions- Also, please let us all know what problems you encounter, especially as it pertains to getting CELs post-installation...

[mihneagabriel]

If it helps anyone out, Chris @ EPL said he has a customer with catless AMS downpipes using the Vibrant V3211621 with no insert with no CEL.

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[DGVR6]

While we're on this subject. Anyone wrap their downpipes and the front part of their exhaust? The stock exhaust gets the floorboard really hot on long drives. Looking to stop that

I've thought about heat wrapping half of the downpipe. The only problem is, I don't want it to get too hot and damage the DP or get moisture stuck in between the wrap and DP.

I don't think heat wrapping the whole thing would be a good idea, maybe just the front half of the downpipe itself. Still need it to dissipate some heat.

[OlyS6]

I've thought about heat wrapping half of the downpipe. The only problem is, I don't want it to get too hot and damage the DP or get moisture stuck in between the wrap and DP.

I don't think heat wrapping the whole thing would be a good idea, maybe just the front half of the downpipe itself. Still need it to dissipate some heat.

Interesting- I wonder if heat wrapping the front half of the downpipe could also have the added benefit of allowing the catalytic converters to work more efficiently (given the likely higher temps they'd see)

[moonlights4]

Would seem like that could raise engine temps though and reduce power safely usable in a Stage II tune. It's my understanding that getting heat away from the engine by moving the cats downstream is part of the reason Stage II can safely produce more power with DPs, or at least that's what my APR dealer/shop has told me before.


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[DGVR6]

Interesting- I wonder if heat wrapping the front half of the downpipe could also have the added benefit of allowing the catalytic converters to work more efficiently (given the likely higher temps they'd see)

In theory, keeping heat inside the downpipe would keep the exhaust gasses at a higher temp which would be less dense and help with spool up/scavenging. Cats would probably see hotter exhaust gasses, most cats don't like anything above 1500 for too long. I'd be worried about that.

I'm going catless, even then, I don't think I want to play around too much with EGTs.
The true benefit is just keeping radiant heat away from the engine bay.

Edit: Clarified (I drive and post too much) I'm not 100% sure if a wrap would effect EGTs in a dangerous way. I just personally wouldn't mess around with it.

[mihneagabriel]

I'm going to have catless downpipes. In my mind the wrap would keep radiant heat out of the engine bay and all the hot exhaust should just move on through the exhaust system. Now that everyone is mentioning possible overheating and damaging the downpipes I might have to rethink it. But why wouldn't the same thing happen with the wrapped headers or downpipes on smaller vehicles? I know they produce less heat but there are some monster v8s out there with wrapped headers and what not. Also the stock headers to the turbo on our cars are technically wrapped, just with the audi wrap. Same with the stock downpipes no?

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[SubaruSTI8]

My STI has wrapped downpipes and no issues.

I didn't wrap my downpipes in the audi and haven't had any issues yet. Yeah it gets hot as hell.

Did a full DP/exhaust install was 5 hrs paid like $600 if I remember correctly.

Wanted to do it myself but I herd it's a bitch to do the DP install.

[Ze_Nardo6]

I was actually just told by EPL to not use a spacer. Luckily, I have a lift in my garage.

Say what? EPL definitely is recommending spacers to users of APR DPs..

EDIT: saw your next post

[SubaruSTI8]

If your talking about spacers for O2 yes they are needed to remove the CEL

[Chris@EPL]

I was actually just told by EPL to not use a spacer. Luckily, I have a lift in my garage.

Just to be clear you were told to use 02 spacers.

[Street Nasty]

Paid $500 for install in NJ through an APR dealer. Maybe more like $450 since that included the tune install as well.

[Sanjman]

Just to be clear you were told to use 02 spacers.

Just to be clearer... THIS

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[nefkntym]

Just to be clearer... THIS

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I already bought spacers. I was always going to use them.

[Sanjman]

I know just being a nuisance today

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[nefkntym]

So far so good...

[ryanlada]

Installed mine with the help of a friend today. Floor jacks and hand tools. Took about 6 hours including about 2 hours wasted looking for a missing bracket spacer and trying to mount the trans to downpipe bracket on the wrong side. Re-reading instructions helps, they are actually very clear.

Very Happy with the sound, with my factory sports exhaust it sounds awesome to me. Just the right amount of loud.

Storming terribly here so didn't get much chance to drive it but initial feel seems faster.

[nefkntym]

Good to know, I have the factory sports exhaust as well. I got everything out and put the top portion of the downpipe in and called the it quits for the evening. I was ready to drink some Margaritas and I am really not in a hurry, it has been snowing here for 30 hours straight now. Looking forward to driving it tomorrow after the storm lets up.