AMS Downpipe Audi S6

[kpriv]

Definitely a lurker here!! The forum has been brilliant.

I'd say I will be purchasing the AMS downpipes later in the year.... the problem will be that I think once I get the downpipes on, the tune won't end up being far away anyway. :)

Shocking amount of traffic on downpipes recently. I remember researching this a while back so I figured I'd post up my experiences to the extent it is useful anyone weighing their alternatives (I am far from an expert, but know a lot more about this car than I did a year ago thanks to this forum so hopefully can be helpful to someone). For background, I have installed both APR and AMS downpipes on my car.

My opinion:
- they are both good, but neither is perfect (more on that below)
- realistically, downpipes are probably more of a sound mod than anything. I believe this is the case because if a stage 1 RS7 doesn't need downpipes, why the heck would a stage 2 s6/7 require them? Doesnt make any sense. I'd be willing to be a stage 2 rs7 doesn't actually need them either (limeypride's car hasn't blown up yet). maybe you reduce cat longevity and a tiny bit of power, but that might be it [note: that entire bullet is entirely unproven conjecture based on anecdotal evidence]


My experience with APR:
- Reason to use these downpipes: If you (1) are going for a better sound, (2) want stage 2 software, and (3) plan on keeping your stock catback, these downpipes are a very good deal. As oly and ryan mentioned, use the spacers even if you go with an APR tune so that if you have to flash back to stock you won't throw a CEL.

- Negatives: (1) the cats under the drivers seat and o2 sensors in the middle of the car scream 'tuned!' -- if you want to flash back to stock and take your car to a dealer for something, it will be very obvious as soon as the car is on a lift and could get them curious what else has changed. And no one ever sees it, but the o2 sensors hanging out under the car look a little bootleg which bothered my ocd nature. (2) even with a lot of adjustment, I found the bend going from the engine bay area to under the drivers seat very tight with the underside of the car. I don't know if it actually rubbed, but something to be watching when you do your install.


My experience with ams:
- Reason to use these downpipes: (1) want better sound, (2) dont mind spending $ to buy stage 2 tune separately, (3) like the ability of passing emissions testing without hassle, (4) would like to be able to take the car in for warranty work with much less concern over what the techs might notice, and (5) are considering an aftermarket cat-back. These downpipes are much sturdier / thicker steel than the others (not sure whether that's good or bad, but they feel more solid).

- Negatives: (1) primarily due to the larger cats and likely also the thicker steel, these are an EXTREMELY tight fit with the bulkhead/firewall even if you re-seat the firewall perfectly. It does not touch all the time, but it will almost certainly rub in certain circumstances, which has the potential to cause intermittent vibration issues. Until someone shows me a picture of AMS downpipes which do not have a char mark from the firewall, I will continue to believe this is a minor design flaw (I've seen another install and it had the same telltale marks on the AMS cats from random rubbing against the bulkhead). (2) is that the drivers side AMS downpipe kisses up again the transmission at the bottom flange. This is probably not an actual problem given the DP's are bolted to the transmission anyway, but annoying nonetheless.

That's my 2 cents -- if you want to change the sound of your exhaust, get some downpipes. Depending on your circumstances and what you care about, either one could be right for you. They are both good products (albeit both with what I perceive to be minor flaws). I did not notice any difference in performance between the two and they both sound about the same with my AWE touring exhaust (probably slightly less drone with AMS, though neither is very bad in this regard).

[VAGFAN]

Thanks kpriv! I appreciate the comparison of good vs bad on both. Info like this makes the forum invaluable when trying to decide how else I might on my warranty with less than 1500 miles on the clock!

[carx7]

Thanks kpriv. Those are some great notes.

[Chris@EPL]

And really with any set of downpipes warranty can go right out the window. The first tie the dealer puts the car on a lift or removes the engine cover it is pretty easy to notice that it is not stock and Audi seems to be pretty strict when it comes to switching out cats for aftermarket.

[pez81]

I emailed APR UK this week and they said I could damage.the engine not running aftermarket downpipes with their stage 2 tune. Not sure I want to risk.it for the sake of £1500.

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[snohman]

Shocking amount of traffic on downpipes recently. I remember researching this a while back so I figured I'd post up my experiences to the extent it is useful anyone weighing their alternatives (I am far from an expert, but know a lot more about this car than I did a year ago thanks to this forum so hopefully can be helpful to someone). For background, I have installed both APR and AMS downpipes on my car.

My opinion:
- they are both good, but neither is perfect (more on that below)
- realistically, downpipes are probably more of a sound mod than anything. I believe this is the case because if a stage 1 RS7 doesn't need downpipes, why the heck would a stage 2 s6/7 require them? Doesnt make any sense. I'd be willing to be a stage 2 rs7 doesn't actually need them either (limeypride's car hasn't blown up yet). maybe you reduce cat longevity and a tiny bit of power, but that might be it [note: that entire bullet is entirely unproven conjecture based on anecdotal evidence]


My experience with APR:
- Reason to use these downpipes: If you (1) are going for a better sound, (2) want stage 2 software, and (3) plan on keeping your stock catback, these downpipes are a very good deal. As oly and ryan mentioned, use the spacers even if you go with an APR tune so that if you have to flash back to stock you won't throw a CEL.

- Negatives: (1) the cats under the drivers seat and o2 sensors in the middle of the car scream 'tuned!' -- if you want to flash back to stock and take your car to a dealer for something, it will be very obvious as soon as the car is on a lift and could get them curious what else has changed. And no one ever sees it, but the o2 sensors hanging out under the car look a little bootleg which bothered my ocd nature. (2) even with a lot of adjustment, I found the bend going from the engine bay area to under the drivers seat very tight with the underside of the car. I don't know if it actually rubbed, but something to be watching when you do your install.


My experience with ams:
- Reason to use these downpipes: (1) want better sound, (2) dont mind spending $ to buy stage 2 tune separately, (3) like the ability of passing emissions testing without hassle, (4) would like to be able to take the car in for warranty work with much less concern over what the techs might notice, and (5) are considering an aftermarket cat-back. These downpipes are much sturdier / thicker steel than the others (not sure whether that's good or bad, but they feel more solid).

- Negatives: (1) primarily due to the larger cats and likely also the thicker steel, these are an EXTREMELY tight fit with the bulkhead/firewall even if you re-seat the firewall perfectly. It does not touch all the time, but it will almost certainly rub in certain circumstances, which has the potential to cause intermittent vibration issues. Until someone shows me a picture of AMS downpipes which do not have a char mark from the firewall, I will continue to believe this is a minor design flaw (I've seen another install and it had the same telltale marks on the AMS cats from random rubbing against the bulkhead). (2) is that the drivers side AMS downpipe kisses up again the transmission at the bottom flange. This is probably not an actual problem given the DP's are bolted to the transmission anyway, but annoying nonetheless.

That's my 2 cents -- if you want to change the sound of your exhaust, get some downpipes. Depending on your circumstances and what you care about, either one could be right for you. They are both good products (albeit both with what I perceive to be minor flaws). I did not notice any difference in performance between the two and they both sound about the same with my AWE touring exhaust (probably slightly less drone with AMS, though neither is very bad in this regard).

Very much appreciated - after the last few days...i think i will install a new exhaust and then consider the downpipes/tune down the road.

[kpriv]

Snohman/carx7/vag - glad I could be helpful. Just my non-expert opinion, but I figure all data points are useful on this front

I emailed APR UK this week and they said I could damage.the engine not running aftermarket downpipes with their stage 2 tune. Not sure I want to risk.it for the sake of £1500.

I hear you, but what exactly could be damaged? Did they really just write engine? If so, that sounds like a canned answer on a customer service FAQ list. Not saying spending the extra money on downpipes has zero value (I've done it twice already!); I just think folks should critically analyze whether it truly is a requirement to prevent damage/issues at stage 2 s6/7 power levels. I decided it's most likely not required, but bought them anyway. Again, my only real data point here is that stage 1 RS7's have more power with a very similar engine and the exact same stock downpipes, but worth considering.

[SPONGE]

moonlightS4, if you haven't done it yet, we now have multiple members (Sportline, ryanlada, and myself) who have been able to use the APR downpipes with the EPL Stage 2 tune using the Vibrant J shaped spacers and the flow restrictors with the smallest holes without error for significant distances. I initially had a 'too lean' error, but turns out this was due to an exhaust leak at one of the downpipes. Since fixing that, no errors with close to 500miles of driving. The other gentlemen have gone signficantly farther than that without any errors at all.

Does this remain true? Does your state require smog inspection? Did you pass? NYC requires the readiness to be available.

[Ze_Nardo6]

why is that ? Fastest RS7's all run APR DP's

Doc, any RS7s running AMS?

[Ze_Nardo6]

It's not a matter of the CEL, it is a matter of passing annual state inspection. In many states, an OBD based emissions test is part of the inspection. The cats have to pass both the readiness test, and the actual spec test. They will with the AMS pipes, not the APR pipes.

Ze_Nardo6 has bought and installed AMS downpipes and sold his APRs since making those comments as well.

Interestingly, Mickey (Ze_Nardo6) has since changed his tune (literally and figuratively)- he is now APR Stage 3 with AMS downpipes and an Akra exhaust. I'll let him speak to it, but the additive factors of the slightly larger cats, better overall design (end-end connection rather than sleeves that can leak), no need for O2 spacers, all led him to the decision to go with AMS. I believe he was also swayed by the fact that the Akra bolts up directly to the AMS downpipes without issue. I personally have APR downpipes and they are currently working fine (after some exhaust leak issues), but in hindsight wish I'd gone AMS, and probably will at some point when my wife stops threatening to shoot me if more car stuff gets delivered to the house....

Edit- I see Aaron beat me to this one.

Well said Andre, thanks.

I spoke too early on the downpipes..

[OlyS6]

I did go several thousand miles without a CEL using J-shaped spacers from vibrant on my APR downpipes. I since switched to APR to be able to go Stage 3. My county does not have emissions testing. However, it would be worthwhile asking EPL their recommendations to ensure sensor readiness for emissions testing. I am uncertain as to whether you need to flash back to the stock tune prior to testing when using EPL. I suspect not, as they do not code out the sensors.

My understanding is that folks using APR need to be flashed back to stock at their APR dealer in order to make the secondary O2 sensors not 'code out', and that those folks then need to drive around for a period of time (I've heard up to several days, but have no proof) in order to get the sensors to the 'ready' state on testing. If you don't have O2 spacers during this period, the car will very quickly throw a CEL if you are using APR downpipes.

[MadMaxD]

I'm personally running Milltek. I had them modified to mate to my factory exhaust (there was not a version that did at the time of purchase). I did no cats due to heat concerns, and I think it definitely helped out. I'm surprised that more people aren't running them.

BTW, why is everyone freaking out about emissions? Haven't you guys just used the O2 sensor spacers with the mini cats built in? The shop I work with has used them on many cars and they work great.

[nefkntym]

I wouldn’t say anyone is freaking out about emissions. Some people are concerned about it. That is the beauty of having options, you can get what you want. For me, there are no emissions or inspections where I live. Even still, a no cat option was not an option. I got exactly what I wanted, high flow downpipes with cats in the stock location so I don’t have to use spacers and the ability to bolt on the stock exhaust with no jerry rigging or modifications. Essentially, I wanted the no comprimises of the stock system but better, hence the AMS downpipes and then the Akra later.

For a performance downpipe that gives you the options to bolt up the stock exhaust, there is always the AMS downpipes with no cats. I know people will say, they cost more. True story, but it is kind of silly to be in a community of people that drives $80k+ cars that balks at the idea of spending an additional $1000 on a no compromise quality product. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black right?

[brad65ford]

I wouldn’t say anyone is freaking out about emissions. Some people are concerned about it. That is the beauty of having options, you can get what you want. For me, there are no emissions or inspections where I live. Even still, a no cat option was not an option. I got exactly what I wanted, high flow downpipes with cats in the stock location so I don’t have to use spacers and the ability to bolt on the stock exhaust with no jerry rigging or modifications. Essentially, I wanted the no comprimises of the stock system but better, hence the AMS downpipes and then the Akra later.

For a performance downpipe that gives you the options to bolt up the stock exhaust, there is always the AMS downpipes with no cats. I know people will say, they cost more. True story, but it is kind of silly to be in a community of people that drives $80k+ cars that balks at the idea of spending an additional $1000 on a no compromise quality product. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black right?

Totally agree that spend for good parts for sure, I just spent 5k for a cat back system, mind you its a lot of parts and material also results in a beautiful exhaust note. So yes spend as you would for what you want regardless. But 2k for a small catless downpipe from ams is way over priced imo peroid but that's the norm today for perfomrance parts for high end vechiles. Funny, there's a similar dp for our 4.0's on ebay from Russia and poland for 600-900 bucks lol but who knows the really fitment and quality.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RSE-Audi-4-....c100033.m2042

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Downpipe-De...5aZc2M&vxp=mtr

[cobrario]

For a performance downpipe that gives you the options to bolt up the stock exhaust, there is always the AMS downpipes with no cats. I know people will say, they cost more. True story, but it is kind of silly to be in a community of people that drives $80k+ cars that balks at the idea of spending an additional $1000 on a no compromise quality product. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black right?

for me it's not balking at the additional $2k, it's more a value issue- I personally don't see $2,000 in value for what they offer vs APR- and the Akra, that's an entirely different value question. I'll pay $5,000 for 2 or 3 tenths at the track but that same $5k for a more pleasing exhaust note does not make sense in my mind, again that's just me - we're all in different places with our vehicles and our decisions about mods - I for one appreciate your input as well as others who differ in opinion from me- it would sure be boring here if we all thought the same way...

[nefkntym]

for me it's not balking at the additional $2k, it's more a value issue- I personally don't see $2,000 in value for what they offer vs APR- and the Akra, that's and an entirely different value question. I'll pay $5,000 for 2 or 3 tenths at the track but that same $5k for a more pleasing exhaust note does not make sense in my mind, again that's just me - we're all in different places with our vehicles and our decisions about mods - I for one appreciate your input as well as others who differ in opinion from me- it would sure be boring here if we all thought the same way...

First off, I really appreciate that you just came out and said that it is not for you because of "this, that and the other thing" rather than saying the blanket "that sucks, APR is better" statement that has been going around since before "two weeks". It would be very boring if everyone agreed on everything and that is the beauty and madness in all of this. Everyone has a different idea of what a value add is. I will be the first to admit that I have a super warped sense of value. Case in point, would be all my recent purchases for this and why I did it. So in closing, keep on with your Bad Self and Keep the Pimp Hand Strong? ??

[pez81]

Totally agree that spend for good parts for sure, I just spent 5k for a cat back system, mind you its a lot of parts and material also results in a beautiful exhaust note. So yes spend as you would for what you want regardless. But 2k for a small catless downpipe from ams is way over priced imo peroid but that's the norm today for perfomrance parts for high end vechiles. Funny, there's a similar dp for our 4.0's on ebay from Russia and poland for 600-900 bucks lol but who knows the really fitment and quality.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RSE-Audi-4-....c100033.m2042

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Downpipe-De...5aZc2M&vxp=mtr

I'm considering trying those for £400 they're silly cheap but maybe for a reason

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[brad65ford]

I'm considering trying those for £400 they're silly cheap but maybe for a reason

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The ones from Russia do actually look good.

[pez81]

Snohman/carx7/vag - glad I could be helpful. Just my non-expert opinion, but I figure all data points are useful on this front




I hear you, but what exactly could be damaged? Did they really just write engine? If so, that sounds like a canned answer on a customer service FAQ list. Not saying spending the extra money on downpipes has zero value (I've done it twice already!); I just think folks should critically analyze whether it truly is a requirement to prevent damage/issues at stage 2 s6/7 power levels. I decided it's most likely not required, but bought them anyway. Again, my only real data point here is that stage 1 RS7's have more power with a very similar engine and the exact same stock downpipes, but worth considering.

First damage your cats then your engine


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[Dasquade]

The russian catless pipes are definatly worth their mobey (compaired to overpriced ams/apr pipes). I got mine for 1100€ thermal coated and shipped too my doorstep. If i would of gone for ams, would of cost me +30% taxes. Like said, in the end it is just a pipes with 2 bends and reduction piece...

[brad65ford]

The russian catless pipes are definatly worth their mobey (compaired to overpriced ams/apr pipes). I got mine for 1100€ thermal coated and shipped too my doorstep. If i would of gone for ams, would of cost me +30% taxes. Like said, in the end it is just a pipes with 2 bends and reduction piece...

Someone gets it, right on!

[pez81]

Someone gets it, right on!

It seems ridiculous to spend £2000 on some pipes. £400 seems reasonable and worth a shot. Wish they did catted version. How loud and smelly are non catted dps going to be. It has to still remain a functional family car.

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[brad65ford]

It seems ridiculous to spend £2000 on some pipes. £400 seems reasonable and worth a shot. Wish they did catted version. How loud and smelly are non catted dps going to be. It has to still remain a functional family car.

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nice to hear others think the same, hate the smell of cattless exhaust

[cobrario]

Just so you know the APR catted DP’s are way stronger smelling than stock, only tolerable when I’m running race gas. I can’t imagine running catless pipes

[pez81]

Just so you know the APR catted DP’s are way stronger smelling than stock, only tolerable when I’m running race gas. I can’t imagine running catless pipes

Jeez really? Hmmm maybe I have to pony up for catted then. Goodbye £1500

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[Dasquade]

I went catless and yes, when waiting at a stoplight after a brief moment i can start to smell it. Turning the AC on recycling before hitting a stoplight prevents that :).
And since i started using a 1/10 bio ethanol mix (100% bio ethanol) the smell is reduced big time aswell.

[Ze_Nardo6]

It seems ridiculous to spend £2000 on some pipes. £400 seems reasonable and worth a shot. Wish they did catted version. How loud and smelly are non catted dps going to be. It has to still remain a functional family car.

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Tom, paying $80k+ for a car is ridiculous.

The only reason you think those Russian pipes are a bargain is because they are catless, which completely ruins any luxury component of these cars. What happens when something goes wrong with those?? Product warranty? I’d rather spend a little bit more and put quality products on a very expensive car with a name I recognize. That’s not saying I’m not overpaying, but I gladly will for the reasons above. Watching people try and cut corners on parts for these cars doesn’t make sense to me.

[IowaRS7]

Guys do fully custom exhausts all the time without a brand name on them, doesn’t mean they are cutting corners or going cheap. If the material is the right stuff, the welds are good and the jig was setup properly so that things line up well, there is nothing wrong with it. Good quality CATs cost money and with the AMS that is a good chunk of the price one pays. Brand recognition and resale value are another. I for one usually take the CATs off my cars and am looking at doing the same on my RS7. I want to pair up straight pipes into the Akra 😁 We have no emissions testing in Iowa and I rather enjoy the smell of power!! If I wanted a quiet smell-less car I could’ve bought a Tesla, but to each their own.

[pez81]

You make a good point mickey and appreciate you chipping in. It's not just about being cheap lol it's just justifying the cost for the return. £2000+ just seems absurd when you can get a used pair of RS turbos for that. No one can tell me the cats cost £700 each. The custom shop I know does some amazing work, better than milltek to be honest their welds are incredible and they will give me 100gesi cats which are the highest flowing you can get I'm told. But the price £1500 did seem based on what other manufacturers charge. I agree catless maybe isn't for me.or worth the risk to have them removed then hate it. Maybe it's the yorkshireman in me that's tight. The price for stage 1 is a fantastic deal in my opinion but am I going to get that much more with downpipes? I know this has been asked a million times already. Cheers

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[Dasquade]

I do agree when we are talking downpipes with sports cats (100-200-300cells) it does quickly raises the price (i both a set of 200 cell cats to mount on my stock exhaust in place of the first resonator cans, plan is to remove milltek exhaust, keep the catless downpipes witch are a pain to swap each time, and go to the inspections with the stock exhaust + those 200 cell cats hoping i pass emission tests). They costed me 500€....
But bone catless downpipes...most prices out there are overpriced imho. Very very happy with the build quality of the russian ones, thermal coated and all. Only downside is maybe i wished they were as the apr ones (not crossing each other).

[Ze_Nardo6]

You make a good point mickey and appreciate you chipping in. It's not just about being cheap lol it's just justifying the cost for the return. £2000+ just seems absurd when you can get a used pair of RS turbos for that. No one can tell me the cats cost £700 each. The custom shop I know does some amazing work, better than milltek to be honest their welds are incredible and they will give me 100gesi cats which are the highest flowing you can get I'm told. But the price £1500 did seem based on what other manufacturers charge. I agree catless maybe isn't for me.or worth the risk to have them removed then hate it. Maybe it's the yorkshireman in me that's tight. The price for stage 1 is a fantastic deal in my opinion but am I going to get that much more with downpipes? I know this has been asked a million times already. Cheers

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Dollar per hp will never be matched after stage 1. One has to be content with spending more money for power beyond that point. Is the price tag for downpipes justified? That is entirely subjective.

Here is my opinion on the money I've spent on this car thus far (which is way too much)...looking back, I only regret one purchase and that is the Eurocode AK chassis brace. It did almost nothing in terms of feel/improvements and was roughly $650, relatively small dollars in comparison to the rest of my build. For perspective, someone else could look at my build and say I'm a lunatic (and they wouldn't be wrong) but I have no regrets...and that's what it's all about.

Forking out the money to have the catted AMS pipes was worth every penny. The quality was simply incredible, welds were some of the best I've seen and the cats are the best you can get. If I had a relationship with a shop and they assured me they felt confident in a custom set for less, I may have explored that route, but not the case. And I'm happy with my purchase.

And FWIW, I purchased the APR downpipes initially and when I inspected them several times, the quality didn't blow me away. I ordered the AMS pipes, had them side by side in my garage and the difference in quality was very obvious. Very pleased I went AMS prior to installing the APR pipes. And as you've seen, several others have done the same and share that opinion.

[pez81]

Dollar per hp will never be matched after stage 1. One has to be content with spending more money for power beyond that point. Is the price tag for downpipes justified? That is entirely subjective.

Here is my opinion on the money I've spent on this car thus far (which is way too much)...looking back, I only regret one purchase and that is the Eurocode AK chassis brace. It did almost nothing in terms of feel/improvements and was roughly $650, relatively small dollars in comparison to the rest of my build. For perspective, someone else could look at my build and say I'm a lunatic (and they wouldn't be wrong) but I have no regrets...and that's what it's all about.

Forking out the money to have the catted AMS pipes was worth every penny. The quality was simply incredible, welds were some of the best I've seen and the cats are the best you can get. If I had a relationship with a shop and they assured me they felt confident in a custom set for less, I may have explored that route, but not the case. And I'm happy with my purchase.

And FWIW, I purchased the APR downpipes initially and when I inspected them several times, the quality didn't blow me away. I ordered the AMS pipes, had them side by side in my garage and the difference in quality was very obvious. Very pleased I went AMS prior to installing the APR pipes. And as you've seen, several others have done the same and share that opinion.

Cheers Mickey!

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[SPONGE]

Hate the argument "You paid x dollars so the aftermarket should be unreasonably priced; because we can afford it..." The Audi aftermarket thrives because of this sentiment.

How much do GTR's Cost? How About some American Muscle like a CTS-V? How much can you score a downpipe for?

If you like spending bad pennies that's on you. However metal is metal; and saying because something costs x amount argument is weak and should not be supported by anyone. Well not in context in Intakes and Exhaust components (excluding turbos matter of fact we can include turbos too.)

I also find that many of those that never complain about the absorbent pricing never had a tuner car before or only had Audi's and nothing else to compare. Any other market is practically cheaper.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Hate the argument "You paid x dollars so the aftermarket should be unreasonably priced; because we can afford it..."

If that's what you got from my responses, maybe you should revisit them...I said/implied nothing of the sort (assuming this is directed at me, again)

[SPONGE]

If that's what you got from my responses, maybe you should revisit them...I said/implied nothing of the sort (assuming this is directed at me, again)

I would have quoted you, if I were. General statement you aren't the only one to say hush about the aftermarket because the sticker price is high.
But since you chimed in let's discuss.
You dismissed the Russian Downpipes without first hand experience nor support of your claim. Because his market place is Ebay? Do you know what other cars he fabricates for? His price point should encourage my pioneers and do away with the sheep.

I see that sentiment way too often. Even using it casually is reckless and cost the community dollars. Look at the Heat exchanger and the price difference people crap on the PLM because it's not big in the Audi scene. However they work on other platforms at good prices. Should we dismiss them too because it's not overpriced?

But I will say this. Just because you spent 6k plus on your exhaust doesn't mean you gain more power. You got it because you could afford it and that's what you want. Not because it was a great value because if we are talking performance $6k is better spent elsewhere. You can seek more power without wasting any money. You spent all those funds is your car on the top of the list for drag times? Dyno queen more power than the average non unicorn powered S car?

Akrapovic and AMS make quality pieces but I would spend my money elsewhere. Because, even if I have the funds, I wont spend it for that.

My two cents.

I am glad money truly isn't a thing for you; but for the guys that like me whom a bit more frugal saying things like you have to overpay is blasphemous and ruining our aftermarket.

[wwhan]

The problem with most of the Russian downpipes is the lack of cats. For downpipes without cats, the Russian downpipes are a steal.

There is one set of Russian Audi 4.0T downpipes with Gesi cats I know of, but the cost is about $2062 (119,000.00 RUR), which is close to the cost of AMS DP with cats, considering shipping, import duties & the unknowns of the particular Cat used.

The Chrome brower make a simple translation: http://mikes-custom.ru/index.php/com...rs6?Itemid=618



"Details are installed in place of regular catalysts, they are their substitutes.

Downpipe with re-skids on a metal base with a higher bandwidth. The use of these parts can significantly reduce the resistance to the flow of exhaust gases, which leads to improved dynamic performance, increased power and torque. Fully compatible with the regular exhaust system. Made of high quality stainless steel using TIG-welding in argon.

The graph of measuring the external speed characteristics of the engine clearly shows how the power and torque increase after replacing the regular catalysts on our downpipe. At the stand, a car with factory firmware of the engine control unit was measured.

For AUDI of the following models with petrol turbo engine 4.0 BiTurbo:
S6 / RS6 (C7) from 2012
S7 / RS7 from 2011
A8 / S8 (D4) from 2012

100% stainless steel, including flanges, brackets
diameter 76mm, wall 2mm
Rainscats Gesi UHO
2-sided welding of flanges and most loaded connections
places for lambda probes according to the standard scheme
full compatibility with the standard exhaust system"

[Ze_Nardo6]

You dismissed the Russian Downpipes without first hand experience nor support of your claim. Because his market place is Ebay? Do you know what other cars he fabricates for? His price point should encourage my pioneers and do away with the sheep.

An example of you not reading what I wrote in it's entirety and twisting my words, a common theme by now. Allow me to explain again. I said they were more of a bargain, or cheaper for a reason, when compared to the catted options, well, because they are catless and cats are the most expensive components of downpipes. If I were going catless (which I've explained why I'd rather not), I would almost certainly consider the Russian pipes before AMS. At that point, if both had quality welds and fitment, the additional dollars cannot be justified. I still stand by my comment regarding customer service between AMS and Russian vendor. I would feel more COMFORTABLE dealing with issues with AMS.

But I will say this. Just because you spent 6k plus on your exhaust doesn't mean you gain more power. You got it because you could afford it and that's what you want. Not because it was a great value because if we are talking performance $6k is better spent elsewhere. You can seek more power without wasting any money. You spent all those funds is your car on the top of the list for drag times? Dyno queen more power than the average non unicorn powered S car?

Again, responses like this suggest you simply wanting to take a subtle jab anytime someone spends high dollars on a part. Where did I say the Akra gained the most power, or that it was a "great value" in comparison, or that money couldn't be spent better elsewhere? Because I agree with you in most of those respects. I hope you don't actually think I spent the money on the Akra because I thought it gained a few more hp than the other systems. I actually do think it makes more power than most systems, if not all, but by such a nominal amount, it couldn't even begin to justify the price delta. So pursuing that discussion/debate isn't worth it. You buy exhaust for sound and aesthetics, and maybe a small bit of performance. The true diameter of the piping is slightly larger than most systems and dropping a few lbs off the car (again, nominal) from the titanium finish doesn't hurt.

Akrapovic and AMS make quality pieces but I would spend my money elsewhere. Because, even if I have the funds, I wont spend it for that.

My two cents.

I am glad money truly isn't a thing for you; but for the guys that like me whom a bit more frugal saying things like you have to overpay is blasphemous and ruining our aftermarket.

That comes off as bitter, not sure how else to infer. Money is a thing to me, I'm simply more liberal with my spending when it comes to modifying my car because it's my biggest passion outside of my family. I'm relatively frugal in most other areas, which allows me to spend more freely on my car (younger, married and no kids also helps...priorities will shift accordingly as the family inevitably grows).

I don't think we're actually disagreeing on much here. I understand your point of view and can understand how my choice of mods may conflict with your strategy in selecting your parts. But as I said earlier, zero regrets other than the AK brace...and to me, that's what matters.

To conclude, I will not ever argue something is better because it's more expensive. I've been modifying cars for 14 years, I know that's not the case.

[kpriv]

...I'm relatively frugal in most other areas...

I'll vouch for the guy in this regard. Like me, he still enjoys coors light. Any man still tapping the rockies is ok by me and hasn't strayed too far into the realm of frivolous spending!

[Ze_Nardo6]

I'll vouch for the guy in this regard. Like me, he still enjoys coors light. Any man still tapping the rockies is ok by me and hasn't strayed too far into the realm of frivolous spending!

I prefer to call them Coors Lattes, Colorado kool-aids, or beers of Christ (*coined by Buttsy*) 🤙🏻

[SPONGE]

My frustration is with the aftermarket and not you or how you choose to spend your money.

Again sorry, the thought process triggered my responses and not a direct reflection on any feelings towards you. (But you did state you factored in the other factors such as age, children and other financial obligations) so I do not believe we are in disagreement.