Cam swap

[pezgoon]

Cam from the S3/GTI R is know to be slightly wider cam profile iirc. This in my build will give my mid range and bottom end a bit of a improvements. I have 1mm over sized valves, it's noticeable the oem cam isn't as bottom end savy as the GTI cam. A believe higher RPM the advantage as minimal but still bit more flow. For me it should be an improvement. My oem cam has I think 5500 miles on it as it is. No wear.

Gti r that's what it was lol


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[zimflux]

Cam from the S3/GTI R is know to be slightly wider cam profile iirc. This in my build will give my mid range and bottom end a bit of a improvements. I have 1mm over sized valves, it's noticeable the oem cam isn't as bottom end savy as the GTI cam. A believe higher RPM the advantage as minimal but still bit more flow. For me it should be an improvement. My oem cam has I think 5500 miles on it as it is. No wear.

Oh nice!

[B7S3wannabi]

I can't tell what kind of gains I got from my golf r camshaft since I went from stock straight to the JHM K04R with tune, golf r cam, awe intercooler, and turbo back exhaust.

[canadianA4B7]

I think i will be able to notice more then most. I could honestly feel a difference from stock head to fully built with the larger valves. i think this will change the feel of the lower rpm ranges significantly

[Fasterd]

problem is you have a fully built head so there's no comparison. I have Ferrea valves in there now and am not about to spend the money to redo it for 1mm. springs and cams maybe one day, but it looks like i may be able to salvage my damaged journal....we shall see.

[Charles.waite]

For the record. There is no GTI-R in the us. It's a Golf R here.

[Fasterd]

My apologies, I am more just a b5 guy who liked the b7, Im no VW guru

[Charles.waite]

No worries. Just clarifying so people don't think the regular GTI (bpy) has a different cam.

[pezgoon]

No worries. Just clarifying so people don't think the regular GTI (bpy) has a different cam.

I thought it was a golf-r

We don't get anything fun >:(


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[canadianA4B7]

Best cleaner for removing the left over gasket??

Gasoline shud do it?? And run the vac while scraping it off to not drop anything into the head?

[pezgoon]

Best cleaner for removing the left over gasket??

Gasoline shud do it?? And run the vac while scraping it off to not drop anything into the head?

If I'm not mistaken there is a VW gasket dissolver that you could get from the dealer, that would be "best" since it's designed to work on their own gaskets.

Outside of that I cannot remember what others have used/suggested. Acetone?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[canadianA4B7]

It's a strange material. I'll try a few things until I get to dealer. I have some de greaser that's pretty good for anything I might see if it's strong enough.

Will see what I can find at work too. Shud have something there for gasket removal.

[james12lucy]

No worries. Just clarifying so people don't think the regular GTI (bpy) has a different cam.

Golf R or S3, same cam.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[canadianA4B7]

No worries. Just clarifying so people don't think the regular GTI (bpy) has a different cam.

06F 109 101K part number which I am using.

[Okedokey]

06F 109 101K part number which I am using.

What value does this part provide? Is it something that needs to be tuned? Whats to go?

[canadianA4B7]

What value does this part provide? Is it something that needs to be tuned? Whats to go?

Tuning required yes likely not a huge amount but some yes. For me with larger valves and bored out Pistons this shud give the car a bit better power down low. Being the every so slightly longer duration (I believe this is how I am to explain this) it shud take that little extra breath needed that the larger valves will work well with.

The golf r or S3 seem to have much much better numbers down low with this camshaft. My 6758 .85 hotside, 1 mm oversized valves, ie intake manifold and this cam will hopefully bring my peak boost down a bunch.

[Charles.waite]

I think betweenthis cam and the k04 it gives the s3/R that fast spool and better top end compared to the standard k03 2.0t.

[Okedokey]

Ok guys, thanks.. not something ill be looking at doing at this stage.

[Charles.waite]

Ok guys, thanks.. not something ill be looking at doing at this stage.

If a tuner has the maps ready to go from a golf-r or s3 tune, I would assume it would be trivial to port them over to a b7 tune. But yea it likely wouldn't quite be off the shelf.

You could probably run it on a tune for a stock cam 2.0t, but you could run into issues. And even if it does work without issues, youd need tuning to extract that potential the "bigger" cam would otherwise leave on the table.

It's something I've toyed with, trying to source a Golf-R CDL engine since it's more or less a direct swap into a b7 (accessories and slight turbo fitment issues aside). My engine needs to be rebuilt anyway. Why not try to source a much stouter OEM bottom end while I'm at it?

[canadianA4B7]

It's something I've toyed with, trying to source a Golf-R CDL engine since it's more or less a direct swap into a b7 (accessories and slight turbo fitment issues aside). My engine needs to be rebuilt anyway. Why not try to source a much stouter OEM bottom end while I'm at it?

I certainly think this is a great idea, getting all the CDL upgrades by purchasing the golf R motor would be the easiest way to do a build. Here in Canada I think the price would beyond what one could do a build for. I think this route matched with a GTX 2863, or EFR 6258 or a k04 hybrid would be the best fit for the golf R motor. I believe they are capable of much much more out of the box the the bwt/Bpy.

Great idea.

[pezgoon]

Cdl?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[canadianA4B7]

Cdl?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Yes i believe this is the golf R engine code. Out of the box with a number of Vw factory upgrades. The cam being one of them. I don't have the info/specs in front of me but there has been a few of these swaps done over in Europe. They drop them in bolt up minor upgraded turbos and it's a pretty stealth power upgrade with minimal work (internals) needed. As I mentioned the few turbos above are all a bit larger then the K04 and from what I've found the CDL should have no issues with any of the turbos I've listed.

Ill also add removing the old gasket with SafSolv was an extremely easy way to remove. I will use this to clean the head section today.

[canadianA4B7]

CDL — Volkswagen Polo R WRC
169 kilowatts (230 PS; 227 bhp) @ 5,500 rpm; 300 newton metres (221 lbf·ft) @ 2,250-5,200 rpm — BYD — VW Golf Mk5 GTI Edition 30, Pirelli Edition
173 kilowatts (235 PS; 232 bhp) @ 5,500 rpm; 300 newton metres (221 lbf·ft) @ 2,200-5,200 rpm — CDL — Volkswagen Golf MKVI GTI Edition 35
177 kilowatts (241 PS; 237 bhp) @ 6,000 rpm; 300 newton metres (221 lbf·ft) @ 2,200-5,500 rpm — BWJ — SEAT León Cupra, SEAT León Cupra Mk2 facelift
188 kilowatts (256 PS; 252 bhp) @ 6,000 rpm; 330 newton metres (243 lbf·ft) @ 2,400-5,200 rpm — CDL — Audi S3 (8P), Golf R (Australia, Japan, Middle-East and North America)
195 kilowatts (265 PS; 261 bhp) @ 6,000 rpm; 350 newton metres (258 lbf·ft) @ 2,500-5,000 rpm — BHZ — Audi S3 (8P)
195 kilowatts (265 PS; 261 bhp) @ 6,000 rpm; 350 newton metres (258 lbf·ft) @ 2,300-5,200 rpm — CDL — Audi S3 (8P), Audi TTS, SEAT León Cupra R Mk2 facelift, VW Scirocco R
199 kilowatts (271 PS; 267 bhp) @ 6,000 rpm; 350 newton metres (258 lbf·ft) @ 2,500-5,000 rpm — CDL — Audi TTS, Golf R (Europe)
notes
the 162 kW (only Polo R WRC) and higher versions have stronger pistons and gudgeon pins, new rings, reinforced connecting rods, new bearings, reinforced cylinder block at the main bearing pedestals and cap, new lightweight aluminium-silicon alloy cylinder head for high temperature resistance and strength, adjusted exhaust camshaft timing, increased cross-section high-pressure injectors, 1.2 bars (17.4 psi) (value only valid for Audi S3(8P)) boost pressure K04 turbocharger with larger turbine and compression rotor (S3, Cupra, GTI Edition 30), of which some components are NOT shared with the lower output variants

I believe all of these are options for engines which are golf r spec or factory k04 across the world. But dont quote me. Was a quick search in bookmarks.

[Charles.waite]

Yup. Forged rods and maybe pistons too.

[canadianA4B7]

Victor Reinz universal sealing compound +300*C

Is this stuff the right stuff? It was recommended "with these parts" recently.

[Charles.waite]

I used reinzosil or Dirko. I can never remember which one. It was red or that helps. Leak free after 30k miles.

[canadianA4B7]

Reinzosil is on this label!!! It seems to be high temp at 300* but there is higher rated out there.

I think I'm using this. Thanks it's black in colour

[canadianA4B7]

Golf R Cam in


All sealed back up

[aluthman]

I really hope you put assembly lube on those cam bearings before you bolted the tray down.

[zimflux]

Awesome job.

Would love to read a final write-up with what was truly needed and not without removing the timing belt. I need to tackle this as well.

By the way was this just for a cam swap and your cam follower was okay?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[pezgoon]

I really hope you put assembly lube on those cam bearings before you bolted the tray down.

X2

I was thinking the same thing when I saw them sitting in there "hmm those look really dry" lol


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[canadianA4B7]

Oil over the cam before locking it down it's been sitting drying for over a day. If your saying I need to redo this let me know.

[pezgoon]

Oil over the cam before locking it down it's been sitting drying for over a day. If your saying I need to redo this let me know.

I'll let aluthman (or someone else with more engine building experience than me) chime in but every thing I've ever read about it says that you have to use assembly lube atleast on new parts/builds because of the part being brand new it needs the extra lubrication that the assembly line gives vs just plain oil

Again I'm not sure and I'm sure that aluthman can answer that better than me

It would really suck if you would have to redo the sealant on the cradle


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[canadianA4B7]

All good I'll take her apart again and re seal it. I'm not happy with a few spots on the sealant anyways. Rather take it apart now.

Good eye. I thought full syntec was good, but now I re read some notes I think assembly lube wud be best.

[pezgoon]

All good I'll take her apart again and re seal it. I'm not happy with a few spots on the sealant anyways. Rather take it apart now.

Good eye. I thought full syntec was good, but now I re read some notes I think assembly lube wud be best.

Oh I can't take credit, I was looking at them and saw that they were dry and felt like something was wrong but I couldn't quite place it

Adam honestly said what was needed to be said, I was just there to steal the glory


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[aluthman]

Reinstall the tensioner. You can see the allen wrench that is keeping it compressed. I also put a thin coat of bearing assembly lube on the cam bearing races before putting the cams in.


Lay the cams in place in the head. If you left the chain on them like I did, this part will be easy. If not, use trial and error until the timing tool will fit between the cams.


Lube up the cam tray.


Place the cam tray over the cams, and tighten in place with a couple bolts. This is a good use for your old cam tray bolts, since they are TTY and you need to use new ones. You are just doing an additional check of the cam timing here. The timing tool should easily fit between the cams with the tray tightened flush with the head.


After you are certain the cams are properly timed to each other, bust out the sealant. I used Elring Dirko sealant at the recommendations of Charles.Waite. It's much cheaper than the Audi sealant and will likely be much easier to remove if I ever need to. Put a small bead of sealant on the cam tray in the machined grooves around the perimeter and the plug holes. Don't go overboard, just use enough to have a bead the width of the groove. This is when you want to install your new cam seals. I also used some ARP fastener lubricant on my cam tray bolts per ARP's recommendation. I torqued the cam tray bolts to 15 ft-lbs. starting from the center and working my way out. I believe the stock bolts are 8 nm and 90 degrees (you should double check to be sure).

^from my head debacle thread. You want assembly lube on both the head side and tray side of the bearings when you assemble, especially if the mating surfaces are new to each other. Just pouring oil on top isn't gonna cut it. If there is a dry spot, you stand a really good chance of wiping a cam bearing and ruining your head.

[canadianA4B7]

Thank you. I will re do this. As mentioned there's a few minor spots I don't like how the dirko stuff looks. So I was preparing to do this again. Now I have more reason to.

[Charles.waite]

I used some random tube of Permatex (I think) assembly lube my buddy brought.

[canadianA4B7]

Ill get some lube this Monday and remove it all.

Likel post this swap up in local classifieds that I know how to complete this task. Heard of a number of cams lately that are crap.

Aluthman: I've added a piece to you can locking tools. The puller is a hand full of c hairs short of making contact with The cam, it's just a 1" X1" hunk of material to use. Silly this isn't something they include. It's included now for future use.

[pezgoon]

Ill get some lube this Monday and remove it all.

Likel post this swap up in local classifieds that I know how to complete this task. Heard of a number of cams lately that are crap.

Aluthman: I've added a piece to you can locking tools. The puller is a hand full of c hairs short of making contact with The cam, it's just a 1" X1" hunk of material to use. Silly this isn't something they include. It's included now for future use.

That's weird??


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine