2013 A4 tunes

[Ndb8fxe]

Bear with me guys, I am completely a newby with upgrades/tunes with cars.

My lease is coming due on my 2013 A4 6MT. I'd consider buying it out, but I'm a little bored with its performance. So I've been considering a B8.5 S4 MT.

But now I'm wondering if I might be happy with buying my A4 and tuning it to get the best performance possible.

What performance increase can I expect out of a tune?

What is the cost?

How is it accomplished?

Thank you all in advance,

C

[MacFady]

What performance increase can I expect out of a tune?

What is the cost?

How is it accomplished?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I guess I'd throw some of your questions back because this is totally open ended.

What are your performance goals? Is a reliable daily driver important? What you can expect out of a tune totally depends on what supporting mod's, if any, your interested in, that will dictate the tune.

Same goes for cost, how it's accomplished etc., all depends on what you are looking for and how far you want to go down that road.

I'd suggest just reading up on some of the widely available information just on this forum alone surrounding performance options on a B8 A4 and then come back with specifics.

[SleeperCar]

if you can get an S4, go for it, there is no reason not too, unless its not in budget, in which case why mention it, and if you are looking for better gas mileage...then again, why mention it.

Do some research on APR and GIAC tunes, they will break down gains for you.

[IHave2Turbos]

don't waste your time/energy/money on this car. get an S4 if you can afford it you will be much happier. the tuners have mostly given up on the platform already.

[twixinthemix]

I have the APR stage 1 93 octane file. I would suggest buying the tune and returning it(within 30 days) if you are not happy. I lost my tune for 3 days after the aux water pump recall and I forgot what a difference it made.

[jorte014]

S4 all the way if you can swing it. APR recently released new hardware on the platform that can bring some S4's up to insane power levels.

[IHave2Turbos]

I will qualify my statement for arguments sake:

Lets just throw some numbers around:

you can get a 2013 P+ S4 for ~$26k (very rough numbers)
you can get a 2013 P+ A4 for ~$17k (very rough numbers)

so thats ~ $9k in difference. The S4 is twice the car of the A4, one possible way you could go is:

HPA K04 Kit (K04+Manifold+Tune+DP) = ~$4000
Audi OEM++ Q5 3.0T BBK: = ~$1200
Uprated FMIC: = ~$500
Suspension Upgrades = ~$1000
Upgraded Clutch (You said your 6MT) = ~$600
Installation Costs: = ~$2000

So roughly you would spend $9300 to get a car that barely matches the specs of a stock S4 and you're maxing out the A4 platform.

[jorte014]

I will qualify my statement for arguments sake:

Lets just throw some numbers around:

you can get a 2013 P+ S4 for ~$26k (very rough numbers)
you can get a 2013 P+ A4 for ~$17k (very rough numbers)

so thats ~ $9k in difference. The S4 is twice the car of the A4, one possible way you could go is:

HPA K04 Kit (K04+Manifold+Tune+DP) = ~$4000
Audi OEM++ Q5 3.0T BBK: = ~$1200
Uprated FMIC: = ~$500
Suspension Upgrades = ~$1000
Upgraded Clutch (You said your 6MT) = ~$600
Installation Costs: = ~$2000

So roughly you would spend $9300 to get a car that barely matches the specs of a stock S4 and you're maxing out the A4 platform.

Pretty much, hugely regret not getting the S4 from the get go 5 years ago.

[lettuce]

I will qualify my statement for arguments sake:

Lets just throw some numbers around:

you can get a 2013 P+ S4 for ~$26k (very rough numbers)
you can get a 2013 P+ A4 for ~$17k (very rough numbers)

so thats ~ $9k in difference. The S4 is twice the car of the A4, one possible way you could go is:

HPA K04 Kit (K04+Manifold+Tune+DP) = ~$4000
Audi OEM++ Q5 3.0T BBK: = ~$1200
Uprated FMIC: = ~$500
Suspension Upgrades = ~$1000
Upgraded Clutch (You said your 6MT) = ~$600
Installation Costs: = ~$2000

So roughly you would spend $9300 to get a car that barely matches the specs of a stock S4 and you're maxing out the A4 platform.

Honestly that A4 would outdo a stock S4 in every way. But like you said, maxed out. Whereas the S4 can match that by doing the same mods minus the turbo and then eclipse it greatly with a dual pulley and tune setup.

[Ndb8fxe]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I guess I'd throw some of your questions back because this is totally open ended.

What are your performance goals? Is a reliable daily driver important? What you can expect out of a tune totally depends on what supporting mod's, if any, your interested in, that will dictate the tune.

Same goes for cost, how it's accomplished etc., all depends on what you are looking for and how far you want to go down that road.

I'd suggest just reading up on some of the widely available information just on this forum alone surrounding performance options on a B8 A4 and then come back with specifics.

Don't think you are being a jerk. It just shows that I don't know enough to know what information to provide.

This car will be my daily driver so reliability is important.

The goal is to have something a bit faster, more fun than my current A4. I am not trying to set any records.

I leased the A4 new in 2013 after an exhausting search for a "sportish" 4 door available in MT. Audi saved the day, because there are not really any others out there. Now the lease ends in a few months and I'm even more frustrated that even Audi isn't offering MT's hardly at all.

[Ndb8fxe]

if you can get an S4, go for it, there is no reason not too, unless its not in budget, in which case why mention it, and if you are looking for better gas mileage...then again, why mention it.

Do some research on APR and GIAC tunes, they will break down gains for you.

Thanks, thats what I'm leaning toward, but never really "tuned" a car and have no idea what the expectations would be.

[Ndb8fxe]

I have the APR stage 1 93 octane file. I would suggest buying the tune and returning it(within 30 days) if you are not happy. I lost my tune for 3 days after the aux water pump recall and I forgot what a difference it made.

I'm trying to get a feel for how much difference this is. Interesting.

[Ndb8fxe]

I will qualify my statement for arguments sake:

Lets just throw some numbers around:

you can get a 2013 P+ S4 for ~$26k (very rough numbers)
you can get a 2013 P+ A4 for ~$17k (very rough numbers)

so thats ~ $9k in difference. The S4 is twice the car of the A4, one possible way you could go is:

HPA K04 Kit (K04+Manifold+Tune+DP) = ~$4000
Audi OEM++ Q5 3.0T BBK: = ~$1200
Uprated FMIC: = ~$500
Suspension Upgrades = ~$1000
Upgraded Clutch (You said your 6MT) = ~$600
Installation Costs: = ~$2000

So roughly you would spend $9300 to get a car that barely matches the specs of a stock S4 and you're maxing out the A4 platform.

Thank you for taking the time to list the specs. The S4's I've been seeing advertised are quite a bit more, more like $36-40K. At least on auto trader. If I found a quality S4 for $26K it would be a no brainer.

[Ndb8fxe]

Pretty much, hugely regret not getting the S4 from the get go 5 years ago.

Thanks, I don't want to have regrets either.

[SleeperCar]

Pretty much, hugely regret not getting the S4 from the get go 5 years ago.

That's where I disagree, I don't regret it at all.

My A4 crushes an s4 in daily drivability (gas mileage FTW), and it's been a blast to mod.

For what I wanted, the A4 fit the mold perfectly.

[bakerrrr]

If you can get an s4, get it. I just got one about 3 weeks ago after turning my 2014 A4 lease early (had it tuned,exhaust,HFC,Intake,suspension,ect). Even with all the mods I had, I still prefer the S4. It's a totally different car imo.
As far as the mpg goes, A4 is better

[weagle1856]

I will qualify my statement for arguments sake:

Lets just throw some numbers around:

you can get a 2013 P+ S4 for ~$26k (very rough numbers)
you can get a 2013 P+ A4 for ~$17k (very rough numbers)

so thats ~ $9k in difference. The S4 is twice the car of the A4, one possible way you could go is:

HPA K04 Kit (K04+Manifold+Tune+DP) = ~$4000
Audi OEM++ Q5 3.0T BBK: = ~$1200
Uprated FMIC: = ~$500
Suspension Upgrades = ~$1000
Upgraded Clutch (You said your 6MT) = ~$600
Installation Costs: = ~$2000

So roughly you would spend $9300 to get a car that barely matches the specs of a stock S4 and you're maxing out the A4 platform.

I don't think so. An APR stage 1 tune will almost out you at the power output of the s4.
Then like you mentioned the suspension upgrade. Now you could easily go stage 2 for a little bit more as well.
It definitely wouldn't be $9000.

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[IHave2Turbos]

apples to oranges.

[Georgeb111]

I would go with the S4 simply because you can get way more power with same amount of money you sink into the A4.
So far I have sunk around 3500 and I MIGHT hit mid 13's

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[lettuce]

I don't think so. An APR stage 1 tune will almost out you at the power output of the s4.

Well, no. That's not even remotely true. A stage 1 A4 will get spanked by an S4. Even a stage 2 A4 won't be able to keep up. You need a turbo upgrade to get to S4 performance levels.

[AllroadCorbin]

Agree with lettuce. A stage 2 A4 will not keep up with an S4. Especially on the highway in top end comparos... The 3.0 S/C S4 will be gone

On E85 a b8.5 a4/ allroad could keep pace at low speeds because torque... But after that the tiny IHI turbo wheezes

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[b6Hate4]

I don't think so. An APR stage 1 tune will almost out you at the power output of the s4.
Then like you mentioned the suspension upgrade. Now you could easily go stage 2 for a little bit more as well.
It definitely wouldn't be $9000.

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Hey, how about we tone down the spreading of false information.

[weagle1856]

Hey, how about we tone down the spreading of false information.

If you look at the stock numbers on the s4 and the stage 1 numbers on the a4, the a4 has a bit more torque and the s4 has more horsepower.

IIRC, that's "remotely close". But with their budget,they could go stage 2 and get really close if not faster than the s4 0-60 time.

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[AllroadCorbin]

Hey, how about we tone down the spreading of false information.

Peak output and power band are two totally separate things. B6hate4 is totally correct. A stage 1 b8.5 a4 from apr claims peak power of 284 on pump gas or like 300 on E85. A stock S4 is 333. But on that note people have dynod stock S4s and gotten nearly 300 wheel. The S4 is underrated as hell. Just because the A4 spits out 290-300 hp for like 500 rpm doesn't mean it's fast. The S4 will eat that car.


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[AllroadCorbin]

If you look at the stock numbers on the s4 and the stage 1 numbers on the a4, the a4 has a bit more torque and the s4 has more horsepower.

IIRC, that's "remotely close". But with their budget,they could go stage 2 and get really close if not faster than the s4 0-60 time.

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Nope. They can't. Torque gets you off the line. Once you're rolling it's all about horsepower. The S4 will still win. I ran e85 on my catless allroad stage 2 and stock s4s still pulled away. K04 is a different story. But the stock turbo is half the size of trumps hands and runs out of steam at like 5k


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[lettuce]

If you look at the stock numbers on the s4 and the stage 1 numbers on the a4, the a4 has a bit more torque and the s4 has more horsepower.

IIRC, that's "remotely close". But with their budget,they could go stage 2 and get really close if not faster than the s4 0-60 time.

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Stage 1 and 2 torque on the A4 has a high peak right when the turbo spools, and then falls off considerably. You're only hitting that peak for a very short time. An A4 with a K04 has similar peak torque numbers to a stage 1 A4, but instead of the dyno chart looking like Mt Fuji, it looks more like a table. Straight up and then flat to redline. That's why you don't compare peak numbers.

A stock S4 will run the 1/4 in about 13 flat. A stage 1 A4 is low to flat 14, stage 2 at around a mid 13, and finally a K04/F23L is mid to high 12.

[weagle1856]

Nope. They can't. Torque gets you off the line. Once you're rolling it's all about horsepower. The S4 will still win. I ran e85 on my catless allroad stage 2 and stock s4s still pulled away. K04 is a different story. But the stock turbo is half the size of trumps hands and runs out of steam at like 5k


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That's true. So OP, if you don't do highway racing and just care about 0-60/quarter mile times then tuning may be the best answer. Most say that they love their A4, but just want bit more performance. I asked several people who have had their car tuned for thousands of miles and say it's reliable.

If you have the money for the s4 though, I say go for it. A tune is one thing, but an actual S4 has had a lot of thought and work put into it.

What you should truly do is go get the tune on yours, especially if the warranty is over. I know APR has a 30 day refund policy.

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[Brandon K.]

An S4 is going to be a better choice. The only reason I can see for not buying the S4 is if you feel you have to have an Avant, then you are stuck with an A4 or Allroad in the US.

If you are just looking to get a good bump in power a tuned A4 is a bargain. If you add in a down pipe, the car becomes very amusing. Your looking at around $1000-1500 for tune and down pipe with install depending on who's tune you use and were you get the down pipe. Some may disagree, but I believe you can live without the better intercooler if you are not tracking the car. It's hard to notice any heat soak on back roads unless it's over about 85*

APR's site say the DP excludes the 6MT, but I don't know what the story is. I believe there are MT A4s running around with various down pipes.

My experience was that adding the DP with DP tune was about 70% the difference that just have the tune alone made.

My perspective:
Stock= slightly amusing
Tuned=amusing
Tuned +DP=very amusing

I would bet that
K04=fun;)
But now you are looking at some real money spent on the car. In addition an S4 will have a far better resale value than a moded A4.




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[Hunter2011]

Get a high flow catalytic converter and Apr stage 2. Costed me $450 total since I bought the car with apr stage 1 already installed and put the cat in myself. 291 HP makes the car fun to drive and i'm happy with the performance now vs how slow my stock A4 was. Wait a few years until the B9 S4's are a bit cheaper and then switch to that.

[Brandon K.]

Get a high flow catalytic converter and Apr stage 2. Costed me $450 total since I bought the car with apr stage 1 already installed and put the cat in myself. 291 HP makes the car fun to drive and i'm happy with the performance now vs how slow my stock A4 was. Wait a few years until the B9 S4's are a bit cheaper and then switch to that.

+1

I am glad to see Audi going back to twin turbos. As log as the internals are stout, tuners should be able to do amazing things with it.


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[AllroadCorbin]

+1

I am glad to see Audi going back to twin turbos. As log as the internals are stout, tuners should be able to do amazing things with it.


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B9 S4 is not twin turbo lol


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[Brandon K.]

B9 S4 is not twin turbo lol


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Strange, I read somewhere online that they were going back to twin turbos for the S4. If it's on the internet, it must be true! Lol


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[weagle1856]

Strange, I read somewhere online that they were going back to twin turbos for the S4. If it's on the internet, it must be true! Lol


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They are for the RS4

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[Hunter2011]

The B9 S4 has a bi-tubo

[SleeperCar]

B9 S4 is not twin turbo lol


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B9 S4 is a twin scroll turbo

[SleeperCar]

Here is the S4 snipet for anyone interested:

The new top model in the A4 series leads the competition – with an intelligent lightweight design, powerful engine and a comprehensive package of the latest technologies. The centerpiece is a newly developed V6 engine with direct fuel injection, high-efficiency turbocharger technology, a new combustion process and innovative thermal management. The engine outperforms its predecessor in power and torque with significantly lower fuel consumption and weight.

The 3.0 TFSI engine delivers 260 kW (354 hp) of power with 500 Nm (368.8 lb-ft)of torque. The power unfolds harmoniously and continuously over the entire revrange of 1,300 to 4,500 rpm for a confident driving feel. The new turbocharger technology allows a very spontaneous and direct response with a very early peak torque. The engine accordingly accelerates the new Audi S4 from 0 to 100 km/h(62.1 mph) in an impressive 4.7 seconds, with the electronic limiter kicking in at 250 km/h (155.3 mph).

The advantage of the newly developed engine lies, in addition to the significantly greater driving dynamics and high power reserves, particularly in its high efficiency, especially with a sporty driving style: An essential component is the new combustion process with the injectors centrally located in the combustion chamber. The process reduces fuel consumption not only in the lower and medium engine load and speed ranges, but also noticeably in the full-load range.Other measures for increasing efficiency are the integrated exhaust manifold,friction reductions, the better utilization of thermal potentials and the very compact and weight-reducing design. In the NEDC cycle the S4 sedan makes do with less than 7.4 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers (31.8 US mpg),with only 170 grams of CO2 emitted per kilometer (273.6 g/mi).

The new eight-speed tiptronic operates with high efficiency and shifts fast,comfortably and spontaneously. When the traffic situation permits, it switches to freewheel and saves fuel. The power of the 3.0 TFSI engine grabs hold of the road through the quattro permanent all-wheel drive – as with any Audi S model.

In conjunction with the new chassis, the TFSI V6 engine with tiptronic quattro in the S4 provides for sporty handling. The five-link suspension at the front and rear axles separate the longitudinal and lateral forces precisely from each other,ensuring optimum handling in all driving situations. The engineers designed both– like the electromechanical power steering – to be weight-optimized. Optionally available is the dynamic steering, which varies its gear ratio with the vehicle speed. The level of the standard S sports suspension is 23 millimeters lower than the basic model. The same trim position applies to the optional chassis with active damping control. The new S4 runs on 18-inch aluminum wheels.

[Ndb8fxe]

Thanks for the help guys, I ended up buying an S4 today. 2013 w/ 21500 miles. It is a different ride than my A4, which I still have for now.

[VeeDubbinJetta]

Thanks for the help guys, I ended up buying an S4 today. 2013 w/ 21500 miles. It is a different ride than my A4, which I still have for now.

You won't regret it, as someone who had an APR stg 1 6spd b8.5 A4 and now have a stock S4, the S4 is a better car to me in every way. Power output doesn't even compare and I loved the way the A4 with a tune felt. Can't wait to tune the S4. As others have said fuel economy is a little worse on the S4, but I can still get 28 mpg hwy and average about 21 city