Be aware of JHM tune fine print

[stanglife]

First I'll say that I know there are fanboyz that will defend X company no matter what - that's fine. The products are probably fine but as you'll read, I have an issue with the business tactics and general "too bad, we're the best" attitude towards an unhappy customer. They've made my future supercharger purchase decision pretty easy, that's for sure.

I ordered a tune from JHM the other day and after they received payment I get this tune form to fill out where they require me to leave my credit card number on file - which I generally avoid doing, at all costs. The form content is below:

Please review the following statement regarding JH Motorsports, Inc. Tuning products. Once you have reviewed the statement and agree with the terms set forth in it, please sign this form indicating that you understand and agree to the terms.
“I would like the following credit card to be placed on file and billed automatically for each JHM Tune that I flash under my JH Motorsports, Inc. Tuning account. JH Motorsports, Inc. will provide me with a single username and password for my account. My cost for a single JHM Flash will be equal to the listed price shown at JHMotorsports.com. Additional programs or extra features (if available) will be subject to additional charges. I understand that if I attempt to flash my car multiple times, I could incur additional charges and will contact JHM if I encounter any difficulties. Customers with their own flashing cable can flash their car back to stock and then back to tuned for a $55 server access fee. Please contact JHM before attempting to do this. This includes a total of two flashes - the flash to stock and then the flash back to JHM Tuned. RESTRICTIONS: 1) After the customer flashes to stock, they have 20 days to flash back to JHM Tuned or they will be charged FULL PRICE for another tune. 2) The customer must flash back to the same JHM Tune they had previously or the will be charged FULL PRICE for the tune. With my signature below, I authorize JH Motorsports, Inc. to charge my credit card below for each flash or tune performed under my account. I understand that I am solely responsible for all actions performed under this account and will keep my login information secure to prevent un-authorized actions on my account.”

So my question to JHM was - why was none of this disclosed prior to the sale? It would be easy enough to explain this so that there was no confusion and buyers could make an educated decision...

SO he explained it away.. They say they rarely charge the $55 remove/add flash charge. The explained that the tune has no future value as it's tied to your VIN number (this seems by design)..they confirmed that once the tune is removed from your car for 20 days, you would need to pay for it in full AGAIN. He even said that he was looking at the product page and that it was stated that I would receive a tuning form...Well, yes, it is...but does it say anything about requiring my credit card after the fact? Amex is going to have a field day with this.

All of these things would have been nice to know before hand....and you know, I might have been able to swallow most of it. The fact that they purposely will not tell you until after you've sent them money made me a little ticked and I asked for a refund (Keep in mind, the package is STILL IN THE MAIL). Drew got snotty with me and said that there would be a 10% restocking fee...for parts that I haven't even received. A 10% fee for not disclosing that I'd need to give them my credit card info to keep on file and the fact that there were hidden charges and undisclosed caveats to the use of the product.

It would be SO easy to inform their customers about what they are buying but this seems purposely shady.

I told him that I'd just refuse the package and Amex would square it away....again, in a snotty manner he said that he would not my account so that if I ever wanted to purchase something from them in the future........I laughed. They think they are that big of a deal that I should feel privileged to shop there???


Now I get this in email lol.
The comments for your order are:

Customer has expressed his want to cancel this order and have it refunded to him. The customer was explained the terms and conditions on Returns and Cancellations and has stated that he will be filing a chargeback with Amex. Please restock this order to inventory. The customers account has been marked appropriately regarding these conditions.


Your order has been updated to the following status: Charge Back (in progress)

If necessary, you may view your order directly by following the link above (login required). If you have questions or comments, please reply to this email.

With warm regards from your friends at JH Motorsports

[Gansel]

Who cares? It makes sense to have a CC on file for this if the customer is going to flash and unflash his car multiple times. Im assuming they do this to regulate people flashing other peoples cars also. It's JHMs job create a product and to sell it to you and its your job to read the fine print.

P.S. I don't own anything JHM so im not a fanboy

[yxri]

The restocking fee is because the wasted money on shipping. Shipping is crazy expensive. Especially when they provide a tracking number. Even if they don't ship it out it would be really annoying to have customers waste company time by ordering and canceling.... Thats how to prevent it. I had a guy on the Audizine say he was gonna buy my ENTIRE interior. I take my time to take it all out and say "you ready to come get it on sunday.... He pulls the "My car broke down sorry" crap. NO company wants people to pay and then cancel. Shit get annoying.

[dsgray16]

First question.. why on earth do you care if they store your info? I have my card info stored on probably 30+ sites.. amazon, Apple Pay, utility providers.. who cares? The policy of charging for removing and re-applying a tune seems more than reasonable. Are you arguing that?

It seems to me like you are picking a fight over their notification order.. but for no real reason.. just that you don't like what they did.

Am I missing something?

[Jake@JHM]

Stang,

This conversation must have happened while I was at lunch, as I don't recall hearing this conversation in the office.

That being said I don't know the exact details you have been told so I will do my best to just re-explain it as if this is your first time hearing it.

The reasoning we require to have a valid credit card on file with a tuning account is because you will have full access to our tuning server. Meaning, you can decide to flash all of your Audi friends with our software. In order to protect against this, your card will be stored on file and used on any unauthorized flashes (vehicles other than your own). Additionally we only offer this "self flashing" method for people who are not near a dealer of ours and it is strictly for convenience. This unfortunately causes more hoops for customers to jump through but so far more people have been more than happy to do this instead of driving hundreds of miles away to a dealer of ours.

I am the tuning account manger, and I have always waived the $55 dollar server access fee. I am looking to have that removed from our form as it does bring up unneeded concern.

As for the 20 days, that is unfortunately not something that is in our control. As most people already know we use APR's flashing technology to deliver our performance software. After 20 days their tuning technology renders the car stock and removes it from their records (this typically only happens because people put the car back to stock before they sell it).

In regards to restocking fees - These are charged to compensate for the time spent on the order. Employees have to be paid to process your order, pull the parts for your order, and package and ship your order. Then when it comes back employees need to be paid to un-pack your order, Inspect the products, and put them back on the shelf. People can't work for free. This restocking fee is noted in the terms and conditions that you read and agreed to when placing your order.

You can re-read our T&C Here: https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catal...ns.php#Returns

If you change your mind about the order please let me know as I would be happy to reverse what has happened since your earlier phone call.

Jake

[stanglife]

I agree - shipping is expensive...and guys who just run out of money or change their mind...I get that too. Not happening here. It's simply a case of information that should have been provided but was not. dsgray - I also have my card on file with some places but all of that is digital and SSL protected (usually, lol). JHM asks you to scan it and email it. That is not PCI compliant and is a huge risk. How are they storing this information? In email, in a file cabinet?

The bottom line is - everyone has an opinion and it's every persons right to decide if they are comfortable leaving card numbers on file somewhere. Personally, I am not and I would not have made this purchase if I had known this in advance.

Gansel - I totally agree, I hate it when people don't read the fine print. The issue is that they don't email the fine print to you until after the product is purchased (and in this case, a package was in the mail...flashing cable, oil change kit and some gaskets). That's kind of the point of this email - to explain that process. I'd hope they would just include that information on the product page so that customers can actually see what is required of them prior to purchase.

[stanglife]

Stang,

This conversation must have happened while I was at lunch, as I don't recall hearing this conversation in the office.

That being said I don't know the exact details you have been told so I will do my best to just re-explain it as if this is your first time hearing it.

The reasoning we require to have a valid credit card on file with a tuning account is because you will have full access to our tuning server. Meaning, you can decide to flash all of your Audi friends with our software. In order to protect against this, your card will be stored on file and used on any unauthorized flashes (vehicles other than your own). Additionally we only offer this "self flashing" method for people who are not near a dealer of ours and it is strictly for convenience. This unfortunately causes more hoops for customers to jump through but so far more people have been more than happy to do this instead of driving hundreds of miles away to a dealer of ours.

I am the tuning account manger, and I have always waived the $55 dollar server access fee. I am looking to have that removed from our form as it does bring up unneeded concern.

As for the 20 days, that is unfortunately not something that is in our control. As most people already know we use APR's flashing technology to deliver our performance software. After 20 days their tuning technology renders the car stock and removes it from their records (this typically only happens because people put the car back to stock before they sell it).

In regards to restocking fees - These are charged to compensate for the time spent on the order. Employees have to be paid to process your order, pull the parts for your order, and package and ship your order. Then when it comes back employees need to be paid to un-pack your order, Inspect the products, and put them back on the shelf. People can't work for free. This restocking fee is noted in the terms and conditions that you read and agreed to when placing your order.

You can re-read our T&C Here: https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catal...ns.php#Returns

If you change your mind about the order please let me know as I would be happy to reverse what has happened since your earlier phone call.

Jake

As I noted, they did explain some of this. Don't you think this should be explained on the product page? You also are acting like everyone automatically knows your process and business model. They don't - I didn't. You cite your employees time as the reason for a restocking fee - isn't your customers time just as valuable? Include this information instead of sneaking it in there after-the-fact, as the unsavory email that you must realize that it is...doing so would have saved us both a lot of time.

[stanglife]

Jake - replied to your PM.

[Jake@JHM]

As I noted, they did explain some of this. Don't you think this should be explained on the product page? You also are acting like everyone automatically knows your process and business model. They don't - I didn't. You cite your employees time as the reason for a restocking fee - isn't your customers time just as valuable? Include this information instead of sneaking it in there after-the-fact, as the unsavory email that you must realize that it is...doing so would have saved us both a lot of time.

Yes, I have opened a dialog with the webmaster to include details on what the tuning authorization form requires.

Restocking fee- Speaking to Dru he said that he offered to let you return the flashing cable with no restocking fee, due to the circumstances. However it somehow escalated to the whole order for reasons unknown to me, as I was not present.

[stanglife]

That's not exactly what was offered..man, i'll just keep this in PM instead of bouncing back and forth. See you in there :)

[Seerlah]

He said/She said: Let customer service handle this situation. Hopefully, that is you Jake!

But this is one reason I walk my own route, even with running the Eurodyne Tuning Suite (been with them for years, when the B7 platform was just coming out) and much more. Leaves out the hassle.

[Jake@JHM]

He said/She said: Let customer service handle this situation. Hopefully, that is you Jake!

But this is one reason I walk my own route, even with running the Eurodyne Tuning Suite (been with them for years, when the B7 platform was just coming out) and much more. Leaves out the hassle.

Technically I am not customer service anymore but I always happy to step in if needed

[dualquad]

Sorry that this is OT but how many people work at JHM? You guys sure make allot of products :)

[Jake@JHM]

Sorry that this is OT but how many people work at JHM? You guys sure make allot of products :)

About a dozen across all departments from shipping, fabrication, technician, engineering/R&D sales, service.

[stanglife]

Technically I am not customer service anymore but I always happy to step in if needed

Well you're showing your experience. Resolved to my satisfaction and even addressed my concerns as opposed to dismissing them. Thanks, Jake for the win-win attitude.

[Dan_G]

Glad to hear things worked out. I only have two of their products, one I bought used and sent JHM a picture of what I had and if there was anything missing. They replied in a couple hours with a list of everything missing for a reasonable price. Great customer service.

[Worldrider]

Props to JHM handling this well, perhaps better than I would have given the stated facts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[stanglife]

Props to JHM handling this well, perhaps better than I would have given the stated facts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As always, it's hard to convey the tone of a conversation on a forum. My initial complaint was that this information could have been easily displayed before hand for those who are wanting to use JHM for tuning for the first time. The conversattion started out as questions and the moment I said that I wasn't comfortable doing what they requested (requested after the sale) - the salesperson turned abrasive and admittedly, I followed. If Jake would have been the one to answer the phone, it could have easily gone a different way.

Regrettably, I'm not going to be tuning the car at this point.

[Stubek]

OP says issue resolved and requested thread to be closed