Best basic turbo upgrade in 2017

[Schwebe]

Hello everyone,

My k03 has apparently blown the seals and is burning oil, and apparently also leaking it? I can't confirm that last part as I am at college and the car is back home, my buddy took it to his shop to figure out where my oil leak was coming from after replacing the head. He said he traced it back to the turbo slowing filling with oil? I do know that last I had the car I was smoking at idle and other typical bad turbo symptoms. Anyways I am looking to upgrade.

My current set up is APR Stage 1+ tune with tt injectors, FMIC, turbo back exhaust with test pipe, the car is really slow currently (my other car is a vr4 3000gt with bigger turbos) so this is just my DD.

I have been doing lots of research lately on turbo paths but everything is 5+ years old and I do not know how well the info holds up today. I have a few paths I have been looking at and would like to hear your guys' advice.

Plan 1 - College Friendly Price Option - Send my busted k03 to Gpopshop to have it converted to a k03/k04 hybrid for $550-600, then get 550cc injectors and a hybrid tune for Motoza. This will probably put me around 1k to 1.2k.

Plan 2 - The I want this option but it looks too expensive - Buy a gtrs turbo and injectors and a tune. I would be much more satisfied with the power but I can't find much info on these turbos when it comes to where to buy. It seems like all the kits I have found are 1,500+ for just the turbo and hardware. Does anyone know of a cheaper option for around the same power?

Just looking for some advice,

Thanks!

[blitz2190]

you can pick up a genuine bw k04 turbo from europaparts with all the hardware and then get a set of bosch 550's for $150 so around $1300, then a tune which can be from $300-$600 depending on who you go with.

[Schwebe]

That is true but I can't justify the price of a BW k04 when you look at the HP gains, just doesn't seem worth it to me compared to a hybrid.

[DougL]

Get a used K03, bolt it on, daily drive. $100 later you're back in business. If you want a faster DD bolt that $100 turbo on and sell your car on Craigslist. With the car sale and the $2k you're proposing spending on a bigger turbo- buy a car with more power from the factory.

If you don't know already, you will come to find that having a reliable daily driver and a separate project car is the way to go. In my opinion- when you have to use a non-OEM injector, you've went too far for a DD.

I am sure 20 people will post up about their setups with larger injectors and how reliable their cars are. Defining reliability is also an opinion. My version of reliability is rock solid mechanics and I only have to change tires, brakes and fluids. A car I can take on any long distance road trip without having to think to myself "oh crap, what if x fails?" or spending time preparing it for a road trip to insure reliability.

Hybrids are all from China. I've known 3 people with Hybrids and every one of them has been replaced under warranty at least once.

Just my 2 cents

[Schwebe]

Well I have been on non stock injectors since I got the car and haven't had issues with much other than my cracked head (purchased that way). I totally understand what you mean, and I agree that your option is probably the best way to go. If I was staying stock though I would be far off considering all of my previous supporting mods. I would just like to be able to take advantage of that.

[DougL]

Well I have been on non stock injectors since I got the car

My current set up is APR Stage 1+ tune with tt injectors

OEM injectors ^

I've got them same in my car with a GTS Stg 2 tune.

Don't mean to troll, but just wanted to clarify what I was saying. Good luck with your setup man!

[blitz2190]

this car doesn't make good power, but a k04 setup is a good reliable daily, my friends pulls well, drives like oem, and has no issues. There will be people that say they can but I can't justify building a block on an engine to get the same whp that a lot of other engines will make with simple upgrades and tunes. But if you are mechanically inclined, and want to keep the b6, for about $1500 you can swap in a 2.7 (thats including buying the engine and doing a top end refesh if you so desire IE head gaskets and timing belt and stage 1 tune). Deffinately not a swap meant for all but if you love the b6 body its an option. Also don't ever buy crappy knock of k04's they may seem tempting but you'll end up replacing them 3 times if not more in the time a bw will last.

[Schwebe]

My bad, I just thought you meant anything different from what came with the a4! Thanks for clarifying.

You say your friend has a k04 setup, would you happen to know what tune he is running and what injectors?

Even if I could afford to do the 2.7t swap I don't think I would want that in my DD! My buddy has a b5 s4 and that thing was such a nightmare...fun but still.

[blitz2190]

My bad, I just thought you meant anything different from what came with the a4! Thanks for clarifying.

You say your friend has a k04 setup, would you happen to know what tune he is running and what injectors?

Even if I could afford to do the 2.7t swap I don't think I would want that in my DD! My buddy has a b5 s4 and that thing was such a nightmare...fun but still.

hes running the apr tune which I believe calls for tt injectors but that setup cost much more as apr is always expensive. Just throwing this out there, theres no cheap turbo upgrade, a turbo system on any car is expensive, $1000 is a drop in the bucket when building performance turbo setups.

[Schwebe]

hes running the apr tune which I believe calls for tt injectors but that setup cost much more as apr is always expensive. Just throwing this out there, theres no cheap turbo upgrade, a turbo system on any car is expensive, $1000 is a drop in the bucket when building performance turbo setups.

I am certainly familiar, like I said I have upgraded my vr4 with 15g turbos and all the supporting mods. Wasn't looking to cheap out, just trying to find best bang for the buck. I also already have an APR tune, as far as I know they don't charge much to just flash up to a higher stage if I recall.

[blitz2190]

I am certainly familiar, like I said I have upgraded my vr4 with 15g turbos and all the supporting mods. Wasn't looking to cheap out, just trying to find best bang for the buck. I also already have an APR tune, as far as I know they don't charge much to just flash up to a higher stage if I recall.

I'd ask them what it would cost, but then you back to around $1150 for parts (you already have the injectors I think). But this would probably be the best option for a simple quick upgrade.

[Schwebe]

I am actually starting to like this path...I convert my k03 to a k04 for say 550-600, plus 199.00 for tune upgrade (just checked the site). That puts me at 800 plus or minus....not bad!

Only problem is that I purchased the stage 1+ ecu from a member on here and I think his tune was for a 5 speed cause I don't have cruise control for my 6th gear after installing the tuned ecu...strange. Wonder if APR would be able to change that.

[blitz2190]

I am actually starting to like this path...I convert my k03 to a k04 for say 550-600, plus 199.00 for tune upgrade (just checked the site). That puts me at 800 plus or minus....not bad!

Only problem is that I purchased the stage 1+ ecu from a member on here and I think his tune was for a 5 speed cause I don't have cruise control for my 6th gear after installing the tuned ecu...strange. Wonder if APR would be able to change that.

the question I'd have with the k03/k04 hybrid upgrade is will it perform as well as a real k04 as the apr tune is an off the shelf never going to be customized tune. If so it would be worth it yes.

Edit just saw you purchased from another user, did you and them have the license tranfered(cost a good amount) if not apr won't even talk to you.

[Schwebe]

the question I'd have with the k03/k04 hybrid upgrade is will it perform as well as a real k04 as the apr tune is an off the shelf never going to be customized tune. If so it would be worth it yes.

That is a good point...I will have to talk with gpopshop and see if they can give me some specifications for the turbo they are building.

[DougL]

Just a thought:

Its my understanding that a K04-015 vs a K03-0xx the only difference is inlet size and the intake wheel is slightly larger with one more blade. The flow characteristics probably do not justify a huge upgrade of injector. Tunes are really not based off of turbo size- they are based off of injectors.

I know a B6 has a garbage static 4 bar system so with 1.5 bar of boost we have terrible atomization and fuel flow while in boost. Either way, does anyone know the IDC of TT injectors with a 1.5bar tune? I would bet there is enough headroom to swap turbos and not have any issues at all.

[blitz2190]

Just a thought:

Its my understanding that a K04-015 vs a K03-0xx the only difference is inlet size and the intake wheel is slightly larger with one more blade. The flow characteristics probably do not justify a huge upgrade of injector. Tunes are really not based off of turbo size- they are based off of injectors.

I know a B6 has a garbage static 4 bar system so with 1.5 bar of boost we have terrible atomization and fuel flow while in boost. Either way, does anyone know the IDC of TT injectors with a 1.5bar tune? I would bet there is enough headroom to swap turbos and not have any issues at all.

apr uses the TT injectors in there k04 tune. also Schwebe don't know if you saw my quick edit about the transfer of the apr license.

[DougL]

apr uses the TT injectors in there k04 tune. also Schwebe don't know if you saw my quick edit about the transfer of the apr license.

Just realized the difference I've run into tuning mk4 1.8T's is the N75 duty cycle. The wastegates on the turbos are different. You could just slap on a good MBC and call it a day.

Edit: these are K04-001 units, not the K04-015 that would be installed on a longitudinal motor.

[Schwebe]

I did not see that quick edit....and I wish I didn't read that

Maybe I can contact the original owner?

"Each APR ECU Upgrade is licensed to a single VIN and customer. An APR ECU Upgrade is non-transferable between multiple VINs. However, an APR ECU Upgrade warranty is transferable between new and old owners of the VIN for a fee of $149. In rare circumstances, such as a total loss of the vehicle, with documented proof and to the discretion of APR, an APR ECU Upgrade may be transferred to the replacement vehicle, for a fee of $149. An APR ECU Upgrade included with APR Hardware, such as an APR Turbocharger System, is non-transferable between VINs and may require an APR Authorization code for installation. In all scenarios, proof of purchase may be required. Please speak to an APR representative for specific information related to each APR ECU Upgrade and scenario."

[blitz2190]

I did not see that quick edit....and I wish I didn't read that

Maybe I can contact the original owner?

If you can and he agrees to help he has to call them with all his customer info and start the process, I'm not sure the exact steps because I never went through with it just ran the apr ecu on my car.

Edit, wow its even more strict now, that sucks. If you can get him to convince them its a new vin lol (that would be fraud and I don't actually recommend that)

[Schwebe]

Yeah that is not good news, the guy I bought it from is larry_fopps, who seems to be active (last posted 3/1). Doesn't look like I can do anything at all then...I have my stock ECU still. Time to find a different option.

[blitz2190]

Yeah that is not good news, the guy I bought it from is larry_fopps, who seems to be active (last posted 3/1). Doesn't look like I can do anything at all then...I have my stock ECU still. Time to find a different option.

http://www.motozaperformance.com/ give them a call and tell them what you want, they have a bunch of great reviews and I'll most likely be using them for my upcoming build.

[BumblebVR6]

I am certainly familiar, like I said I have upgraded my vr4 with 15g turbos and all the supporting mods. Wasn't looking to cheap out, just trying to find best bang for the buck. I also already have an APR tune, as far as I know they don't charge much to just flash up to a higher stage if I recall.

Stay away from APR. I just switched to Motoza's Stage 1+ tune from the exact tune you have. Also added the Bosch 550cc injectors. Night and day. Feels like I bolted on a K04, no BS. According to the Motoza dyno function I picked up around 21 hp. I'm still only on the base tune as well. Interested to see how it runs after Dave reviews my initial log I sent in. Don't expect it to be anything drastic after the new revision, it really runs extremely well right now. You could always buy the genuine BW K04 as already mentioned and add that. Would be one hell of a DD. That's what I would be doing if I hadn't already sourced an eliminator turbo.

[Schwebe]

Really? Hm well I have heard lots of good things from him...do you know what your MPG's are looking like? Also what are you using to send Dave your logs? Just vag com?

[blitz2190]

Really? Hm well I have heard lots of good things from him...do you know what your MPG's are looking like? Also what are you using to send Dave your logs? Just vag com?

they send you a cable and software that makes it very easy to do, just need a windows computer. I haven't seen a bad review with dave yet. Old guy is running his tune with the f21 kit as well and seems to love it.

[Schwebe]

That just seems like such a better option to me...the only reason I went with APR was because I got the ECU and Injectors in a combo from a member, the fact that motoza will actually change and update your tune seems very personal and makes me want to go that route. I just need to decide if I want to go hybrid 03/k04, just k04.

[texasboy21]

Gpopshop has a bad reputation for failing turbos. BW K04 is the best way to go.

[Schwebe]

I haven't found any reviews on the Gpopshop that have been newer than like 2011. Didn't know if they were still struggling.

[oaybar007]

Great discussion. I'd say go the path of least resistance with your car, whatever feels right in that sense. I've heard great things about Motoza and if you value the fine tuning they provide, I think that is the way to go. On turbo, same deal. Whatever will be less of a to-do. IMO the K04 is the way to do it. Just get a quality BW as mentioned.

[BumblebVR6]

Really? Hm well I have heard lots of good things from him...do you know what your MPG's are looking like? Also what are you using to send Dave your logs? Just vag com?

I use an app to log my fill-ups so still trying to get an average. I'm only on my second tank since the switch but I'm almost at 300 miles and still have a 1/4 tank or so left. I've been driving the car harder, hard not to now that it's so much more enjoyable :) Not expecting any drastic fuel mileage differences as of now. Can update after a few more tanks.

[jesse500]

A TTE K04 hybrid, is also a great option, power, quality, no need for any aftermarket lines, or anything. You'll need a bigger inlet TIP, injectors & tune. You already have the exhaust & FMIC for it. You can pick up Bosch EV14 550cc injectors on Ebay for $165 shipped with adapters. Motoza could do your tuning. You will enjoy a K04 hybrid for a DD over a GTRS.

[Schwebe]

Is a TTE k04 hybrid different than a k03/k04 hybrid? Sorry, can't say I have heard of it.

[jesse500]

Is a TTE k04 hybrid different than a k03/k04 hybrid? Sorry, can't say I have heard of it.

The Gpopshop hybrid, makes a K03, almost the size of a K04, which a K04, is a waste of money. Barely worth it for the tiny HP gains. TTE makes a hybrid of the K04. they are not too far behind a GT28 elim HP wise. TTE used all OEM BW parts when making a hybrid, and high quality components, so they stand up (versus a frankenturbo). So if you want dependability, thats the price you will pay. IMO a K04 hybrid is the IDEAL Daily driver turbo. near insta spool, muuuuch better pull than K03, still decent MPG, and actually can accelerate well @ highways speeds. Where a K03, is useless.

[Schwebe]

The Gpopshop hybrid, makes a K03, almost the size of a K04, which a K04, is a waste of money. Barely worth it for the tiny HP gains. TTE makes a hybrid of the K04. they are not too far behind a GT28 elim HP wise. TTE used all OEM BW parts when making a hybrid, and high quality components, so they stand up (versus a frankenturbo). So if you want dependability, thats the price you will pay. IMO a K04 hybrid is the IDEAL Daily driver turbo. near insta spool, muuuuch better pull than K03, still decent MPG, and actually can accelerate well @ highways speeds. Where a K03, is useless.

Good information! I haven't even heard of that. Is there a site for this? I can't find anything via a google search.

[texasboy21]

https://www.theturboengineers.com/

Doesnt look like they have any turbos for the longitudinal 1.8T.

[Schwebe]

Yeah that's what I was coming up with...Looked all over the site and just assumed I was dumb..

[jesse500]

https://www.theturboengineers.com/

Doesnt look like they have any turbos for the longitudinal 1.8T.

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi--...al-engine.html

[jesse500]

Yeah that's what I was coming up with...Looked all over the site and just assumed I was dumb..

Thier website doesn't even work well lol, cannot find a list of all kits they sell for cars.

[jesse500]

Another turbo choice(s): Lots of people enjoy TC turbos, were always recommended by the big names in Audi custom tuning (Daz, Mirza, etc...)
http://turboconcepts.net/?s=search&s...&search=Search

good option: http://turboconcepts.net/cars/audi-a...ger-sku-30350/

[texasboy21]

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi--...al-engine.html

Nice, but for the price of the turbo alone you can get a GTRS and tuning which has the potential to make more power and operate more efficiency (due to a properly sized housing).

[jesse500]

Nice, but for the price of the turbo alone you can get a GTRS and tuning which has the potential to make more power and operate more efficiency (due to a properly sized housing).

Driving a K04 hybrid around town/DD use, versus GT28 elim, the K04 hybrid is alot more liveable, and "quick" (due to quicker spool). I never said the TTE was cheaper, just a another option.

IMO for your price range, for what you want, the TC range will suite well.