Dealing With a Seized Wheel Lock Bolt

**brandonpham** · 03-02-2017 08:20 AM

Posted in the Questions you thought were too dumb to ask thread, but I did not get much feedback on that.

I have yet to personally remove the hub so I wanted to ask about experiences from those who have.

Essentially, the tire shop from over a year ago must have gunned on my wheel lock bolt and it has since seized. The outer ring of the wheel lock spins so you cannot hammer on a socket and gun it unless you drill out the outer ring.

Initially, I tried 2 impact guns at my buddy's shop and could not get it off. Next we tried the breaker bar, could not get it going. My bigger friend tried it after, and he cracked the wheel lock key.

Next, I soaked it in PB Blaster overnight and headed over to Audi where the guy tried a new wheel lock key and hit it with 2 air guns, no good.

Next, I went to my other friend at a different audi and we tried again with a new key and breaker bar, no luck. The key eventually tries to slip.

SO as of now, the bolt seems pretty damn seized on their and I don't have access to another key so I can try torching the bolt and working it at the shop. It would cost $20 for the eBay China key or $80 from Audi and I'm trying to scrap the key and use the regular bolts instead.

So back on topic, anyone ever remove the hub before for the rear? I'm considering two options:

1. Welding on a 19 MM nut and gunning that, but risking damaging the Titanium wheel (have full size spare)
2. Drilling off the head, try to swap the hub assembly and probably bearing if needed.
3. Drilling off the head, getting a used a spindle I found from an 07 Quattro from a Euro junkyard including the hub guaranteed to be good for 30 days for $41 and swapping that out.
4. Drilling into it with a 1/2 or 3/4 diamond bit and using an extractor, however I'm worried about this not working due to how much torque we already applied to getting off with no luck, though this might not hurt if I'm going to try step 2 or 3 anyway.

I want to say number 3 is the good idea, but I was wondering what I may be facing from removing the knuckle/spindle? Any difficult points here to consider?

Might as well do my coilovers and rear brakes while I'm at it I figure.

Tips welcome!

**aluthman** · 03-02-2017 08:45 AM

Center punch the head to create a starting point. Start drilling with a small (maybe 1/8") bit and gradually step it up until you can break the head off. Once the wheel is off, you should be able to extract the rest from the hub. I always put anti-seize on my lug bolts to prevent this exact scenario.

**MacFady** · 03-02-2017 08:48 AM

Bummer. I agree that if you are exploring the other options you might as well try drilling and extracting, I doubt that will work but you could carefully drill it out large and extract the remainder and retapping, if it worked great if it didn't you're on to your other options. I'd be concerned what torching it might do to the wheel.

**brandonpham** · 03-02-2017 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by aluthman

Center punch the head to create a starting point. Start drilling with a small (maybe 1/8") bit and gradually step it up until you can break the head off. Once the wheel is off, you should be able to extract the rest from the hub. I always put anti-seize on my lug bolts to prevent this exact scenario.

I was gonna do this, hoping the wheel bolt metal is not gonna prove to be too difficult to drill through. I'm just hoping the thread comes out clean, or worst case the whole spindle will have to come out.

And yeah torching is hard because centering the heat appropriately can be difficult. I think any chance of trying to take it off with a key has gone out the window.

**seriously.emo** · 03-02-2017 09:42 PM

Oh man, you're definitely in for it. I just had this issue on my mini. I had mcgard locks, my key was stripped out. I ordered a new key and the retailer sent me 3, I stripped all 3 trying to remove it. I finally beat the crap out of the bolt enough that I was able to get the cap off that had the key. Leaving behind a splined bolt. I then removed a good key cap from one of my other lock bolts and pounded it on. I hammered on the least stripped out key socket and got it with the impact. It actually spun at the splines still then it bit and came out. I had to sand and repaint my wheel from the damage. I'm done with wheel locks now. Did a stud conversion and just using regular hex nuts now.

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**yxri** · 03-03-2017 05:37 AM

Yah i would drill through it. I had to do it on my friends charger. Just drill straight through. Or you could try to take a flame to it like an acetylene torch. Should melt of the metal lol. But might damage your wheels.

**seriously.emo** · 03-05-2017 01:57 PM

I drilled a hole for a reverse bit on mine then the reverse bit bottomed out and snapped lmao. It really was a nightmare.

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**pezgoon** · 03-05-2017 02:17 PM

This is exactly why I don't use locking anything

Does anyone even steal rims anymore?

I coulda sworn we were outta the 90's

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**vce1232000** · 03-05-2017 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by pezgoon

This is exactly why I don't use locking anything

Does anyone even steal rims anymore?

I coulda sworn we were outta the 90's

Idk your demographic area where you live

But around this hood they still a very active scene

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2..._city_str.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ft_sittin.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ight_cops.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...d_on_down.html

Wretched people around here.........

**Okedokey** · 03-05-2017 04:09 PM

If you can weld on a socket, I reckon that will work best.

**AudiKilla** · 03-05-2017 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by vce1232000

Idk your demographic area where you live

But around this hood they still a very active scene

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2..._city_str.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ft_sittin.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ight_cops.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...d_on_down.html

Wretched people around here.........

That's messed up man

**pezgoon** · 03-05-2017 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by vce1232000

Idk your demographic area where you live

But around this hood they still a very active scene

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2..._city_str.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ft_sittin.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ight_cops.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...d_on_down.html

Wretched people around here.........

Lol NH

Nj is a terrible place anyways, the whole state smells like shit :0

Every story but the first was a Honda, what does that say XD

And who spends 8k on rims anyways.

Invest or something psh lol

If someone wants to steal my rims and not my car, I need a better car

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**brandonpham** · 03-06-2017 09:58 AM

Aside from the NJ talk, I still love and hate this place lol.

The wheel locks are OEM and i got em with my car, so here we are. Yes wheels cars etc. get popped. Don't plan on having an Integra Type R or STI or anything really without a solid alarm, fuel cut switch, garage, etc. and be comfortable sleeping at night.

Back to the topic, over the weekend we trid to drill and it broke 2 small bits. I tried to use 2 skinny cobalt bits and a punch to drill the ring that spins or the middle to start a pilot hole, man the metal for these locks are solid. The cobalt bits are recommend by mcgard also to drill their locks. They are hard metal bits.

Next we welded the ring that spins so ti would no longer spin, great seem sgood. Hammer on a 12 pt socket hard, worked with a breaker bar, the socket spun (not the ring on the wheel lock). The socket literally just slipped and spun. We tried a reverse thread socket next, no good.

Finally we tried the extractor sockets which are open ended. Its like an oversized impact turbo socket you can put the extension through in the middle. Hammered the life otu of it 3 times, slipped on the breaker bar eventually. So I either need to decide now if I'm going to weld a nut on there, and risk the weld breaking or the socket not spinning, or ill have to try drilling again and start with a 1/4 in bit instead.

Any other opinions? I want to hit it with a torch but I'm scared of burning the rim. Thankfully i do have a full size spare for the titanium wheels.

**vce1232000** · 03-06-2017 10:50 AM

Got to

all that impact. That can cause damage to the hub bearing itself

. Can you just use upsizing drill bits until you drill out the lug until paper then then just snap off with rim. Since the other 4 lugs are okay

**brandonpham** · 03-06-2017 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by vce1232000

Got to

all that impact. That can cause damage to the hub bearing itself

. Can you just use upsizing drill bits until you drill out the lug until paper then then just snap off with rim. Since the other 4 lugs are okay

That's what I was doing. The hub bearing should still be fine worst case I always have a press and I can get the bearing done down the road, priority deciding the most efficient way to get this off. I wanna try torching again and then slam the extractor socket on, but I think drilling it may be safe. Issue is I had a tough time even getting a dimple or pilot hole. Hopefully this 1/4 bit will do justice.

**vce1232000** · 03-06-2017 11:08 AM

I hate to say it this way

. But it sucks to be you rite now......

**JHignight** · 03-06-2017 04:03 PM

Drill slow, add plenty of lubricant constantly (marvel mystery oil, 3-in-1, auto trans fluid, something like that). That will help you cut through.

Without lube it's just getting hot, which will kill the bits tip and you're just trying to rub your way through at that point because it has no cutting edge.

**aluthman** · 03-06-2017 04:35 PM

Use an actual cutting oil when drilling. This is the stuff I use when drilling metal:
http://championcuttingtool.com/brute...ing-fluid.html

**seriously.emo** · 03-07-2017 01:20 AM

That 8k was probably OEM pricing wheels with run flats. I thought the dealer's 400$ a wheel was absurd enough lol

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**JHignight** · 03-07-2017 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by aluthman

Use an actual cutting oil when drilling. This is the stuff I use when drilling metal:
http://championcuttingtool.com/brute...ing-fluid.html

Well, yes. Ideally. But in the event cutting oil can't be procured easily that the others will work in a pinch.

I've had really good success with auto-trans fluid diluted with diesel fuel

**BrianVan** · 03-08-2017 10:07 AM

I had my wheel locks strip out too. They were OEM's. Of course the thin walls of where the actual lock goes isn't that strong. You can buy a hammer socket\wrench, ( I think its called that) that when you hammer on it, it turns slightly. Get some reverse thread sockets.(again exact name?) The insides have a reverse curved cutting thread inside. A set cost me about 30 bucks at Advanaced Auto. Take a chisel and rough up the edge\lip of the wheel lock and make some heavy dents, scars, etc...hammer the crap on the reverse socket onto the wheel lock so its literally stuck on it. Pick a slightly smaller socket so it barely fits and fits extra snug. then use the hammer\socket wrench tool to try and twist it off. It's a 2 man job. One swings the hammer, one holds wrench. Use a heavy hammer or small sledge. I had wheels locks on 2 cars and took them off asap when I got the car due to them striping. 1 week into getting my used A4, those locks came off and anti-sieze on everything...even the wheel and hub mating surface. Be glad your trying to get them off now, instead of on the roadside changing a flat. Good luck.

**seriously.emo** · 03-08-2017 05:41 PM

Mine originally wasn't stripped(the lug bolt itself) just the key socket. But it was on so fucking tight(had a shop rotate my tires) that it was stripping the key sockets.4 of them to be exact.

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**deusilan** · 03-09-2017 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by vce1232000

Idk your demographic area where you live

But around this hood they still a very active scene

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2..._city_str.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ft_sittin.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...ight_cops.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...d_on_down.html

Wretched people around here.........

That's nice. I saw one car here in Queens with NOTHING underneath the car, not even Coke cans

**Ashtonts** · 03-09-2017 11:17 AM

This shit makes me glad I live out in the middle of nowhere. It sucks being far from anything fun to do, but not having to worry about having my wheels stolen is pretty sweet

**dwinters14** · 03-09-2017 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ashtonts

This shit makes me glad I live out in the middle of nowhere. It sucks being far from anything fun to do, but not having to worry about having my wheels stolen is pretty sweet

But if your locking nut seizes... who you gonna call?

**Okedokey** · 03-09-2017 12:46 PM

**vce1232000** · 03-09-2017 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by dwinters14

But if your locking nut seizes... who you gonna call?

Nut Buster's.........

**vce1232000** · 03-09-2017 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by deusilan

That's nice. I saw one car here in Queens with NOTHING underneath the car, not even Coke cans

With cordless impact guns these days. They

them in seconds........

**deusilan** · 03-09-2017 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by vce1232000

With cordless impact guns these days. They

them in seconds........

I love my cordless impact wrench

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**brandonpham** · 03-10-2017 07:56 AM

Appreciate the tips guys, but as discussed the OUTSIDE RING of the wheel locks spin, so you cannot hammer on anything trust me I've tried. We even tried welding the face of the bolt to the spinning outter ring and hammer the socket on, eventually the welds broke. I'm really SOL right now. Drilling is going nowhere also with Milwaukee Cobalt Bits and a hammer drill with lube on the bit....

Losing ideas. I'm gonna try to get an open ended steel lug nut, stack welds inside it and weld the outside to the face then hit it with this inductive coil torch our shop neighbors have and then I can maybe get it off... praying.

**vce1232000** · 03-10-2017 08:17 AM

down to the streets of Newark NJ....Pretty sure there are "Boyz in the Hood" that would be able to

your problem in seconds..........

**Seerlah** · 03-10-2017 08:24 AM

I have a friend that lives in Belleville who may be able to assist. You probably know him (big car guy). Moses? I'll hit him up if you need, and is always down to meet other Audi heads.

**brandonpham** · 03-10-2017 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Seerlah

I have a friend that lives in Belleville who may be able to assist. You probably know him (big car guy). Moses? I'll hit him up if you need, and is always down to meet other Audi heads.

Are you talking about Moe with the B8 S4? If so, good people I miss his B5 S4 though. He won't be able to do it, at this point the options are still

1. Somehow drill it (practically hardened steel)
2. Weld a nut (will probably be the answer)
3. Somehow get the hub off with the wheel on still

Trust me I doubt these Newark cats can do anything about it, this above their pay grade LOL.

**Seerlah** · 03-10-2017 08:30 AM

Yeah, that's my dude!

You can try applying the right amount of heat to the threads. The offset of the heat can break them free (not the principle of expanding the bolt,but creating an offset. I'm in the commercial and industrial hvac-r field and use map gas for this all the time)l. Or use that can spray stuff that does the same thing with the opposite effect of freezing to create the offset. Places like Ace Hardware, Fastenal (if you have one nearby), True Value, Home Depot, Lowes and such may have this spray. Doubtful an auto place would. And ironically, Walmart might even carry it. I forget which brand makes it, though.

**Okedokey** · 03-10-2017 08:30 AM

So the outer ring around the keyed part spins? Why dont you weld the two together and try removing that way?

**brandonpham** · 03-10-2017 08:47 AM

Yeah I see him all the time! And the problem with heating the threads or using propylene torch is centering the heat how you want it. The threads are in the hub but with the wheel on and rotor on its very difficult to heat up that section alone, you'll be making ti warm at best. Our neighbor shop has this cool inductive coil which uses heat and magnetic field so we can center the heat towards the head of the bolt and hopefully it gets hot enough to travel to the threads.

@OKeydokey - I mentioned above we already did that, and the welds broke. Mind you we welding the WHOLE outer ring to the face. Impact guns and breaker bars later the welds broke and the ring is back to spinning with the welds still on it.

FML. I WILL CONVERT ANY GERMAN CAR IN THE FUTURE I OWN TO STUDS, IF NOT ALREADY.

**ENV²** · 03-10-2017 09:04 AM

You are likely going to need a new hub... Sounds like it cross threaded at a high tq impact #.... Gonna suck

**brandonpham** · 03-10-2017 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by ENV²

You are likely going to need a new hub... Sounds like it cross threaded at a high tq impact #.... Gonna suck

I can get one locally, full spindle with hub used, for 40 bucks. I just need to get it off.....

Btw just read your signature, props on owning a CTS-V manual wagon.

**ENV²** · 03-10-2017 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by brandonpham

I can get one locally, full spindle with hub used, for 40 bucks. I just need to get it off.....

Btw just read your signature, props on owning a CTS-V manual wagon.

Hahaha, thanks! Yea I would likely just pull the hub and everything.

**aluthman** · 03-10-2017 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by brandonpham

Yeah I see him all the time! And the problem with heating the threads or using propylene torch is centering the heat how you want it. The threads are in the hub but with the wheel on and rotor on its very difficult to heat up that section alone, you'll be making ti warm at best. Our neighbor shop has this cool inductive coil which uses heat and magnetic field so we can center the heat towards the head of the bolt and hopefully it gets hot enough to travel to the threads.

@OKeydokey - I mentioned above we already did that, and the welds broke. Mind you we welding the WHOLE outer ring to the face. Impact guns and breaker bars later the welds broke and the ring is back to spinning with the welds still on it.

FML. I WILL CONVERT ANY GERMAN CAR IN THE FUTURE I OWN TO STUDS, IF NOT ALREADY.

How did you weld it? Mig hot glue gun? Or tig? If you haven't tried tig I think it would be the better choice.