Meth & Nitrous

[J._Yogi]

Hey new to the form.I am currently building a B5 S4 I have Rifle rods and I'm ordering J.E. pistons 82.5mm,i have the 2.8 heads.which are gonna be built with over size valves.im going Stk.So I'm thinking of running Meth and Nos at the same time any one with any knowledge or experience running both would highly appreciated.

[zillarob]

Sounds like one hell of a party, oh wait

[jimmer009]

I read somewhere that if your running water meth the nos would freeze the water. But I thought it would turn to steam as it cooled the iat. But with the meth it should help the afr. I've looked into this very little but this is my conclusion from a little bit research I did awhile ago

[Mark00s4]

why do you want to run nitrous? i would think there is no real advantage with running both. nos cools down the incoming charge and supplies more oxygen. meth also cools down the in coming air ,but also acts as an octane booster. so in theory the ideal setup would be race gas or e85 with a shoot of nos.not really sure about how it would effect a turbo setup especially with tuning timing.
has anyone ran nitrous on these cars with success?

[J._Yogi]

That's the same issue I'm running into.Meth does help the Afr.but I wanna spool the turbo up because I'm going Stk with a big boy.

[J._Yogi]

I dk if anyone has that's why I am asking I wanna be able to run pump and E85 because everywhere you go is not gonna have E85.so that's why I wanna run Meth.but Nos is to spool the turbo faster.im hoping some one can help or would explain with timing and tuning

[MacDaddy]

Nobody here runs nos simply because the vendors dont offer it, turbo+meth+nos has been done before on plenty of other platforms, i would probably seek insight somewhere else.

[J._Yogi]

Nobody here runs nos simply because the vendors dont offer it, turbo+meth+nos has been done before on plenty of other platforms, i would probably seek insight somewhere else.

seek insight where I have an Audi.where else should I be seeking insight?

[DieselElectric]

seek insight where I have an Audi.where else should I be seeking insight?

This isn't something that needs to be brand specific to be discussed. I would probably stop by ls1tech as a first guess for these kinds of things.

[Royal769sr]

I was looking into nitrous for turbo spool. But everyone said I would blow my motor. Doubt a 35 shot would hurt the block and provide great low end spool up

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[Royal769sr]

There is a 240 on youtube that did a dual stage nitrous for spooling a drift car. Only real evidence I have seen around

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[slowSfaux]

The reason nitrous (let's call it what it is, none of this "naws" garbage) isn't used more on turbocharged vehicles is because owners can simply crank up the boost for additional power, oftentimes to and beyond the power levels that the block can safely handle. The naturally aspirated group can't do the same, so they turn to nitrous for the easiest power available to them.

I'm with diesel on this, you'll find a lot more assistance on the ls1 forums than you will on these.

[Royal769sr]

The reason nitrous (let's call it what it is, none of this "naws" garbage) isn't used more on turbocharged vehicles is because owners can simply crank up the boost for additional power, oftentimes to and beyond the power levels that the block can safely handle. The naturally aspirated group can't do the same, so they turn to nitrous for the easiest power available to them.

I'm with diesel on this, you'll find a lot more assistance on the ls1 forums than you will on these.

No offense but I think you are slightly off target here. He is not looking for power gains per say.. rather faster spool to his target boost pressure.
Larger turbo more lag solved by some giggle juice

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[slowSfaux]

No offense but I think you are slightly off target here. He is not looking for power gains per say.. rather faster spool to his target boost pressure.
Larger turbo more lag solved by some giggle juice

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Right, but the cost and complexity involved is rarely worth it for a turbo application. Hence the hundreds of builds on this forum without using nitrous. And it's not a matter of support from our vendors. A basic dry setup is ridiculously easy to set up on any vehicle. It just happens to not be worth the trouble for all but the most extreme purpose built turbo applications.

Now I'm not saying he shouldn't venture down that path. I'm merely stating my opinion as to why none of the rest of the b5 s4 masses have.

[vavJETTAw36]

How about a k03 on one side. And a big turbo on the other side. Bam, no more spool issues.


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[Royal769sr]

Most s4 applications over the last 20 years would not need n2o because not too many people bigger than ko4s. Even srm k24s spool ok. And really. If they can hook up a meth kit and tune that. Why would it be sooooo difficult and costly for n2o?
The reason you don't see it much anymore is because of anti-lag and. Nls . But. IMO I think there was not a market for n2o. Heck. Look how quick the stk scene died.

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[slowSfaux]

It's not costly, or difficult, but it's adding complexity to an already complex setup. Most people would rather spend the $600 on a tune, or a multitude of other things than on a bare bones nitrous kit that will offer little return on your investment. I do think you hit the nail on the head with the anti-lag and nls though.

[Mark00s4]

what kind of system has been used. multi port or a single plate behind the throttle body? wouldn't tuning be very different from a water meth mix vs nitrous

[Zba]

Ss4 (I think that's his username, lived in CO, moved to STL) had nitrous. The reason no one has nitrous now is because very few people around here innovate. If the small number of people that DO try new stuff don't try nitrous, then others won't follow.

To the people that say nitrous is worthless: wut?

[ElementR]

Nitrous is proven for spooling large turbos, but you will probably get better feedback on other forums as others noted (big turbo mustang, camaro, vette, supra, EVO type setups). I suspect though that you will find many running the NOS to spool the turbo will be using race fuel vs meth. NOS + meth just leads to more potential things to go wrong and not many people running it likely for that reason.

I did consider it on my old '04 Cobra before I sold the car. I had meth running on the car and installed a J&S Safeguard (knock sensor) which has capability of retarding ignition timing with Nitrous. I also had a device which would cut spark/fuel if air/fuel would get out of wack based on a wideband sensor. That car's a different animal, but the point is I was trying to play it safe... this was anticipating install of a 75-100hp wet shot, but ended up selling the car before I went that route. I had a Kenne Bell supercharger on the car and knew others with the same running meth + Nitrous and the Nitrous was making a significant power advantage. The idea behind this vs E85 or race fuel was the latter was not readily available or cost prohibitive and the E85 required significantly more fuel pump and injector and I was already running twin Ford GT pumps and fairly large injectors (anything larger required a complete fuel system revamp). A wet shot along with a Kenne Bell boost a pump (voltage amplifier for fuel pump) was enough to avoid costly fuel system upgrades and still get me the sizeable pump in power.

All in all, if you tune for both meth and Nitrous, the safer the install the better... run as many fail safes as possible to avoid engine damage (nitrous pressure gauge, meth level sensor,etc).

[jimmer009]

On my single turbo I do get a bit of lag. It really spools quickly when the rpms are up there. But below 3200 you need to downshift to get any power out it. I think a nos would eliminate that nicely. Would you make it so from 0-10psi nos then water meth would take over. Or would the spray continue until your done with the pull???

[Mark00s4]

this is an interesting topic.i see the advantage of using a shot to up the spool time on a big turbo set up. are talking about a street driven car that is doing highway pulls or a drag car where you are spooling the turbo before leaving the line? i havent really seen to many drag cars with both nos and turbos. not saying the don't exist. i guess if you have a small displacement engine and a hugh turbo then it would spool faster.

[J._Yogi]

On my single turbo I do get a bit of lag. It really spools quickly when the rpms are up there. But below 3200 you need to downshift to get any power out it. I think a nos would eliminate that nicely. Would you make it so from 0-10psi nos then water meth would take over. Or would the spray continue until your done with the pull???

That's the issue I don't wanna always downshift to get a quick spool,then back to a higher gear.I rather have access to spool it faster.

[J._Yogi]

Nitrous is proven for spooling large turbos, but you will probably get better feedback on other forums as others noted (big turbo mustang, camaro, vette, supra, EVO type setups). I suspect though that you will find many running the NOS to spool the turbo will be using race fuel vs meth. NOS + meth just leads to more potential things to go wrong and not many people running it likely for that reason.

I did consider it on my old '04 Cobra before I sold the car. I had meth running on the car and installed a J&S Safeguard (knock sensor) which has capability of retarding ignition timing with Nitrous. I also had a device which would cut spark/fuel if air/fuel would get out of wack based on a wideband sensor. That car's a different animal, but the point is I was trying to play it safe... this was anticipating install of a 75-100hp wet shot, but ended up selling the car before I went that route. I had a Kenne Bell supercharger on the car and knew others with the same running meth + Nitrous and the Nitrous was making a significant power advantage. The idea behind this vs E85 or race fuel was the latter was not readily available or cost prohibitive and the E85 required significantly more fuel pump and injector and I was already running twin Ford GT pumps and fairly large injectors (anything larger required a complete fuel system revamp). A wet shot along with a Kenne Bell boost a pump (voltage amplifier for fuel pump) was enough to avoid costly fuel system upgrades and still get me the sizeable pump in power.

All in all, if you tune for both meth and Nitrous, the safer the install the better... run as many fail safes as possible to avoid engine damage (nitrous pressure gauge, meth level sensor,etc).

Thanks I gotta find some I know meth kits have fail safes but a Nos kit

[J._Yogi]

No offense but I think you are slightly off target here. He is not looking for power gains per say.. rather faster spool to his target boost pressure.
Larger turbo more lag solved by some giggle juice

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correct

[J._Yogi]

Ss4 (I think that's his username, lived in CO, moved to STL) had nitrous. The reason no one has nitrous now is because very few people around here innovate. If the small number of people that DO try new stuff don't try nitrous, then others won't follow.

To the people that say nitrous is worthless: wut?

Well I wanna set an example on the platform.build a monster B5S4

[J._Yogi]

https://youtu.be/f1qRtpgJEO0
Found the video hope y'all enjoy.
I want a bigger turbo. I want 800 awhp so I know I'm looking for a turbo that's capable of 1000
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f1qRtp...ature=youtu.be

[Royal769sr]

http://www.zex.com/zx/turbo-nitrous-systemhtml/

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[Royal769sr]

https://youtu.be/bjRsIVlJ0pw

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[ElementR]

Or just wait until electric turbos start hitting the scene... they are coming no doubt. Coupled with a larger turbo, they will address lag issues.