Upgraded the Front Speakers in My B8 S4 B&O

[kstrike155]

Since very early in my car's life, the front center speaker has "buzzed" at certain frequencies. And for the longest time I thought it was the trim around the speaker. Well, this weekend I installed 3 Dayton Audio RS75-4 speakers: one in the center channel and two in the front midrange locations. I purchased some custom brackets for the speakers from kmarei on these forums. Huge props to him, I paid on Wednesday and the adapters were in my mailbox Saturday.

After installing, there is now ZERO distortion or buzzing, and the sound is much more mellow and smooth. I'm finding myself re-listening to lots of songs just to see how different they sound.

Very pleased with the fitment of the brackets; they were PERFECT, and custom made for both the A4/S4 dash and the Dayton speakers.

Here are some pictures.

Highly recommended upgrade. Total cost was about $125 after purchase of three speakers, three adapters, tax and shipping.

[socrates42]

Thanks for the info! Actually came in handy all these years later!

[jdmsir20]

ditto. years later but helpful. i might pick up this set

[wrxkyle]

would 4" or 3.5" speakers fit instead? oem looks like it is closer to 3.5" compared to the extra gap for the daytons

[Bobby Kinstle]

There's a FaitalPro speaker that's a drop in replacement for this location. Just cut off two of it's 4 ears and you are there.

[captain_video]

I posted this in kmarei's thread about his speaker adapters but the thread didn't get bumped:

I had the Concert system but upgraded the head unit to the Alpine X701D-A4 in my 2014 A4 S-line. All three dash speakers are still powered by the stock amp so I should be able to upgrade them with the Daytons. Parts Express sells ABS plastic sheets so it shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate mounting flanges for the speakers. I plan to eventually replace the door speakers with my Hertz MLK-165 component speakers and my own power amps. It looks like I may have to consider getting another amp to power the dash speakers as well, although I suppose I could still use the factory amp for them.

Does anyone have any of the 4E0972575 connector assemblies they would like to sell? Every time I try to place an order through AliExpress it kicks me out and won't process the payment. I need three of them for the two outer dash speakers plus the center speaker. Just shoot me a PM. Thanks

[Bobby Kinstle]

Will this one work?
https://www.carid.com/metra/speaker-...2&url=86350859

[captain_video]

Will this one work?
https://www.carid.com/metra/speaker-...2&url=86350859

That looks like it will work. Thanks. Much appreciated.

Just went through checkout and ended up canceling the order. They wanted over $20 for UPS shipping. What a ripoff!

I checked the Metra parts website and it appears that they only sell direct to dealers. I found a list of regional sales reps so I sent him an email and asked where I can purchase them.


Update: Heard back from the regional Metra rep and he gave me the names of some local car audio dealers that can get them for me. I'll swing by one of them as soon as I get the chance. He also sent me a link to the carid.com site as being an online dealer. I was shocked to find that they're about the only online dealer that carries them. I was confident that Crutchfield might have them but they're not listed on their website.

[Bobby Kinstle]

If you find another online source, please let me know and I'll update the guide

[captain_video]

If you find another online source, please let me know and I'll update the guide

It looks like carid.com is the only online source available. The Metra website only sells to dealers so it looks like your best bet is to go to a local car stereo shop and see if they have it in stock. If not then they should be able to order it for you. The weird thing is that the 72-9000 wire harness in question is not listed in their current catalog.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Maybe a local car stereo shop can get them through their distribution channels?

[captain_video]

That's what the Metra rep told me. He named a couple of local shops that either carry them or they could order them for me.

Update: I was running a VPN service on my PC when I tried to place the order with AliExpress. I decided to turn it off and disconnect from the VPN server and this time the order went through with no problems.

[captain_video]

I just received the speakers and capacitors that I ordered from Parts Express. I ordered the Jantzen Audio 10 uf capacitors linked from the other thread and these suckers are huge. I'll have to see if there's room in the dash opening for them to fit. Otherwise I'll have to consider a different type of capacitor. One of the guys in the other thread used some small electrolytics, but I'm not sure that's the path I want to take. They're not really best suited for crossover circuits. I also picked up a 1/8" thick by 12" x 24" ABS plastic sheet from Parts Express and it appears to be exactly what kmarei had his brackets fabricated with. I just received shipping confirmation from AliExpress for the connectors so it's just a matter of waiting for them to arrive and then finding the time to put this all together.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this and kmarei's thread. It's nice to know that there's another alternative to upgrading the dash speakers since they're such an oddball size. Alpine makes the SPC-200AU aftermarket speakerset, but they're a bit pricey because they also include an amp in the package. It's also available only in Europe, but you can sometimes find them listed on ebay. They also make the SPC-100AU component speaker package for the doors. These are all meant to be used with the Alpine X702D-A4 head unit. If you include the top of the line Alpine backup camera you're probably talking around 4 grand for the whole package.

I've got the 1st generation X701D-A4 and it works great. The 2nd generation unit includes the Android OS and allows you to use apps like Waze. It's a great way to add a nav system to the basic Audi sound system. You can use either head unit with the existing speakers and amps and it integrates seamlessly with the car's other systems. The unit connects directly to the factory amp, but it also has a connector to attach RCA line outputs to use your own amp. I haven't had a chance to finish installing my speakers and amps, but I believe the unit will work with my speakers and amps using the RCA outputs and will also power the dash speakers using the factory amp.

[Bobby Kinstle]

I usually use non polarized electrolytic capacitors for car audio. They are small and cost less than $1.

I'm glad to see more aftermarket support for upgrading these systems.

[captain_video]

I ordered a set of non-polarized electrolytics from Parts Express and they're still big, but considerably smaller than the Jantzens. I also received the connectors from the vendor on Ali Express the other day. It took about two weeks from the time I ordered them to be delivered in my mailbox so not too bad. Now I just need to find the time to fabricate the brackets and put everything together.

[A4x]

I just received the speakers and capacitors that I ordered from Parts Express. I ordered the Jantzen Audio 10 uf capacitors linked from the other thread and these suckers are huge. I'll have to see if there's room in the dash opening for them to fit.

They will fit. I had various crossover setups stuffed into my dash over the years. The trick is to make sure the crimped wires are strong enough so that you can yank on them to pull them from the dash!! (half joking).

I went through so many passive crossover setups (1st oder, 2nd order, band pass, etc) until I finally got sick of the impedance spikes and phase changes that I went with an active setup. Way better, will never look back and will always pay for an active setup in the future. The only passive setup I might ever consider is a very simple 1st order setup in a 2-way speaker system. This keeps the phase changes relatively simple.

ProTip: if you do drop something in the dash speaker holes, you can get some good access from underneath; the footwell area. Might have to pull off the footwell kick panel and you'll get the entire under dash area exposed. I used this to route wires from the trunk so the dash speakers could be on their own dedicated channels. As a last resort, you can remove the glove box on the passenger side. This is pretty simple and quick after you've done it once.

My next challenge I'm trying to solve is how to get dedicated wires into the door panels, so that my a-pillar tweeters can get their own dedicated channel?

[captain_video]

They will fit. I had various crossover setups stuffed into my dash over the years. The trick is to make sure the crimped wires are strong enough so that you can yank on them to pull them from the dash!! (half joking).

I went through so many passive crossover setups (1st oder, 2nd order, band pass, etc) until I finally got sick of the impedance spikes and phase changes that I went with an active setup. Way better, will never look back and will always pay for an active setup in the future. The only passive setup I might ever consider is a very simple 1st order setup in a 2-way speaker system. This keeps the phase changes relatively simple.

ProTip: if you do drop something in the dash speaker holes, you can get some good access from underneath; the footwell area. Might have to pull off the footwell kick panel and you'll get the entire under dash area exposed. I used this to route wires from the trunk so the dash speakers could be on their own dedicated channels. As a last resort, you can remove the glove box on the passenger side. This is pretty simple and quick after you've done it once.

My next challenge I'm trying to solve is how to get dedicated wires into the door panels, so that my a-pillar tweeters can get their own dedicated channel?

I'm sure the Jantzens will fit, I just didn't feel like wrestling with them. I found some much smaller non-polarized electrolytics on ebay and Amazon and ordered some. Turns out they were from the same vendor on both sites. I have another thread that I posted here and in several of the classified ad sections for the appropriate vehicles whereby I am offering complete upgrade kits for these speakers as well as the various piece parts required to DIY the upgrade with your own speakers.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-A5-S5-and-RS5

I haven't gotten around to upgrading the speakers in the doors yet as that is a future project I have planned. I have a system that I pulled from my '99 B5 Passat that I plan to install but I just haven't found the time to do it yet. I did put together a power distribution panel but I still have to work out where I want to mount the amps. Running speaker wires for the midrange drivers and the tweeters in the door posts wasn't all the difficult so I suspect it's pretty much the same in the A4. Just run the wires into the door panel through the flex duct that carries the other wiring. You'll probably need to remove the rocker panel covers to run the wires along the channels at the bottom of the door, assuming your amps are located in the trunk. You'll obviously need to pull the door panel to work on the wiring in the door. I generally just gut the interior when I'm wiring the car. I pull both front seats, all door panels, rocker panel covers and kick panels in the front. You may also need to remove the cover under the instrument panel and possibly the glove box too.

If you're just using the factory speakers then I'm pretty sure the tweeters already have a dedicated channel, but I won't swear to that. Aside from the capacitors wired to the dash speakers I would assume that each amplifier channel uses an active crossover wired into the amp. There should be dedicated wiring going to each driver in any case, but if you're upgrading the speakers I would recommend upgrading the speaker wiring at the same time. I usually run 12-14 gauge OFC copper wiring to each speaker when I upgrade them. It may be overkill but I buy the stuff in bulk anyway so why not?

[A4x]

How do you get through the flex duct in the door? What else travels through there? The factory wiring goes through a different port, right? Pics?

[captain_video]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. These speakers go in the dashboard, not the doors. You remove the grills from the three locations in the dash to access the speakers. Each of the three speakers is held in place with two Torx screws. Take out the screws, lift out the speaker from the opening in the dash, and disconnect that wire harness connector mated with the speaker. The midrange drivers on the left and right sides of the dash for the B&O system have different connectors than the tweeter in the center of the dash. The non-B&O system has the same connectors as the B&O center speaker for all three speakers.

[captain_video]

Thanks, sounds like a winner. I'll try this out later on.

I've put together complete plug and play kits for both B&O and non-B&O systems that fit the B8 A4/S4, A5/S5/RS5, and Q5/QS5 vehicles for $132.00 including shipping if you're interested. Just check the following link for details:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...r-upgrade-kits

[captain_video]

I just found out something very interesting based on what one of my customers told me. Apparently the left and right dashboard midrange speakers are actually 8-ohm speakers (actually measured as 6.6 ohms) whereas the center speaker is 4 ohms. I also found out that Parts Express has an 8-ohm version of the RS75-4 3" driver. The part number is RS75-8. It's the same price as the 4-ohm version. I've ordered several of them so I can experiment to see how they sound as the outer left and right drivers with the 4-ohm speaker in the center. I'll post my findings here.

[captain_video]

I just found out something very interesting based on what one of my customers told me. Apparently the left and right dashboard midrange speakers are actually 8-ohm speakers (actually measured as 6.6 ohms) whereas the center speaker is 4 ohms. I also found out that Parts Express has an 8-ohm version of the RS75-4 3" driver. The part number is RS75-8. It's the same price as the 4-ohm version. I've ordered several of them so I can experiment to see how they sound as the outer left and right drivers with the 4-ohm speaker in the center. I'll post my findings here.

I received a couple of the 8-ohm Dayton Audio drivers today and installed them in the outer locations on the dash of my car. My initial impression is that it opens up the soundstage and provides a better overall balance in the sound. The higher impedance drivers reduce the output at either side of the soundstage and provides a better image than before. You can definitely pinpoint left and right sounds more clearly that you could with 4-ohm drivers across the board. I only listened to them briefly so I need to evaluate them further.

UPDATE: I've been doing some further checking and it appears that the B&O system has 4-ohm drivers in all three dash locations whereas the non-B&O system has a 4-ohm tweeter in the center and two 8-ohm midrange drivers at each outer location. I measured about 6.6 ohms with the midrange drivers the other day but for some reason I'm unable to measure them anymore.
.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Interesting. I hate when they use funny impedances.

[captain_video]

Interesting. I hate when they use funny impedances.

I think most speaker impedance ratings are mainly in the ballpark of what they actually measure, probably for marketing purposes. I'd be surprised if the majority of speakers rated at 4 or 8 ohms actually measure at those exact impedances. It's a moot point anyway because the impedance of a speaker changes with frequency so it's basically just a nominal value. There's probably a tolerance that's used to determine the impedance rating of any particular speaker. These could actually be rated at 6 ohms, but since it's not on the label I have no way of knowing for sure. Either the 4-ohm or 8-ohm speakers will work fine.

That being said, the more I've been listening to my setup with the 8-ohm speakers at the outer dash locations the more I like them. Things are much better defined across the dash than they were before. Keep in mind that this applies only to the non-B&O system as the B&O speakers are rated at 4 ohms in all three dash locations.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Actually that's not how they do it at all. What you are measuring is DC resistance, and the rating for the speaker is AC Impedance. The truth is impedance varies a lot with frequency and can actually go very high around the speaker's resonant frequency. The impedance rating is the minimum impedance the driver will present to the amp over it's frequency range (tweeters for example aren't usually rated much below 800Hz because the act of testing them could destroy them). This is useful for system builders so they can make sure the amp can properly handle the load. Secondly when designing the crossover you have to know the impedance of the driver at the crossover point, and for this reason manufacturers usually provide and impedance graph that plots impedance vs frequency.

[captain_video]

Actually that's not how they do it at all. What you are measuring is DC resistance, and the rating for the speaker is AC Impedance. The truth is impedance varies a lot with frequency and can actually go very high around the speaker's resonant frequency. The impedance rating is the minimum impedance the driver will present to the amp over it's frequency range (tweeters for example aren't usually rated much below 800Hz because the act of testing them could destroy them). This is useful for system builders so they can make sure the amp can properly handle the load. Secondly when designing the crossover you have to know the impedance of the driver at the crossover point, and for this reason manufacturers usually provide and impedance graph that plots impedance vs frequency.

Thanks for the clarification. I used to know all that stuff back in the day when I was working on a EE degree, but I decided to change majors in my junior year and forgot a most of that info over the years. I was, in fact, measuring the DC resistance across the speaker terminals and the speakers rated at 4 ohms were measuring about 3.9 ohms so I figured I was in the ballpark.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Usually 4 ohm speakers measure around 3.6ohm DC but I've seen 3.1 up to 4.0. 8 Ohm is worse where I've seen 6.4 up to 7.8 ohms. I've never measured a 6 ohm speaker so I don't know where those fall but like I said it's AC impedance that actually matters.

[captain_video]

I've been checking out some YouTube videos lately and found one that documents the front speaker upgrade for the B8 A4 using the same Dayton Audio RS75-4 4-ohm speakers, but in a non-B&O system. If you check the video at around 25:31 it gets into the calculation of the capacitance value and the frequency for the high pass filter used based on the impedance of the speaker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yzpM2yQwo0

As we already know from this thread and the thread referenced in the first post about the speaker brackets offered by kmarei, using a 10u uF capacitor with a 4-ohm speaker provides a high pass filter at around 4 kHz, essentially turning this speaker into a tweeter. I recently discovered that the outer dash speakers in the non-B&O system are actually 8-ohm speakers so using a 10 uF capacitor changes the high pass filter value to around 2 kHz. Since these speakers are rated down to 170 Hz, this means that using a lower crossover value allows the speakers to reproduce more midrange frequencies and provides a fuller sound across the dash. Using a 22 uF capacitor with the 4-ohm speakers would lower the crossover point to around 1.8 kHz.

Now comes the interesting part. The dash speakers are configured as two tweeters on the outer dash with a single midrange driver in the center. I had originally thought it was the opposite with two midranges and a single tweeter. The drivers are so small it's hard to tell which is which. That being said, using three full range speakers in the dash provides us with several different possible configurations. Is it best to configure the outer speakers as tweeters with a 4 kHz crossover and set the crossover for the center at 2 kHz or make them all full range with a crossover at 2 kHz? You could also configure the outer speakers as full range and just the center as a tweeter. Then again, you could configure all three as full range speakers.

As indicated earlier, I recently discovered that the outer dash speakers in the non-B&O system are 8-ohm speakers and the center is 4 ohms. All three dash speakers in a B&O system are 4 ohms to complicate things even more. Here's the breakdown of speaker impedance, capacitance value, and crossover frequency based on some standard capacitor values:

4-ohm speaker with 10 uF capacitor = 4 kHz high pass filter
4-ohm speaker with 22 uF capacitor = 1.8 kHz high pass filter
8-ohm speaker with 10 uF capacitor = 2 kHz high pass filter
8-ohm speaker with 5.6 uF capacitor = 3.55 kHz high pass filter

Other capacitor values could be used to change the crossover point. Basically, as the capacitance value decreases, the crossover frequency increases. There's a link to the capacitance calculator attached to the video on YouTube.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Usually I'd say the safest route is to try to keep about the same crossover frequency as the factory system, but if you wanted to be a perfectionist, run some sweeps with a microphone with the tweeters removed and then determine the upper roll off of the woofers and set the crossover frequency at the -3dB point.

Normally with any driver and any passive crossover it's good to consult the impedance chart like the one I posted above to find the actual impedance at the frequency you desire and use that for your capacitor calculations. This is pretty safe with a tweeter but other speakers should be measured in the enclosure as that will change the impedance curve. This starts getting too deep down the rabbit hole for car audio though.

[captain_video]

It would be nice to know the actual crossover frequency between the door speakers and the ones in the dash, but since I don't have the proper test equipment to measure it I have to rely on info posted in this forum and other related forums. Most of the info I used was derived from this thread for upgrading a B&O system as well as a few others and they're not entirely applicable to a non-B&O setup because of the different speaker impedances. However, I am finding that because of the lack of mid-bass from the front door speakers, using a higher value capacitor to lower the crossover frequency seems to benefit the overall sound by augmenting the lower frequencies produced by the door speakers. The trick is finding the proper value to improve the sound and not go overboard to the point where it goes in the opposite direction. I wish I had a B&O system to experiment with, but since I don't I can only work with a non-B&O setup. Regardless of the actual crossover frequency used, the Dayton RS75 speakers, whether they be 4-ohm or 8-ohm versions, do provide a noticeable improvement in the sound vs. the OEM drivers. The general consensus seems to be that they should be used with a high pass filter and not used as a full range driver or else they can distort at the lower frequencies.

[Bobby Kinstle]

I have some test microphones if you can find someone with a B&O who's willing to drive to Livermore CA.

[captain_video]

I have some test microphones if you can find someone with a B&O who's willing to drive to Livermore CA.

Microphones aren't a problem. My brother-in-law is a professional musician and has a full recording studio in his house. It's the test equipment that I'm lacking. I found this thread about the B&O crossover frequencies:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...B-amp-O-system

I'm still looking for a thread that provides the crossover frequencies for the non-B&O system. I'm trying to find the sweet spot for my upgrade kits to provide the best sound quality possible at an affordable cost. It's a little trickier with two completely different sound systems at work here.

[Bobby Kinstle]

If you have some speaker testing software you can do sweeps and find the crossover points. That's how I did it in my guide with the Dayton OmniMic system

[captain_video]

If you have some speaker testing software you can do sweeps and find the crossover points. That's how I did it in my guide with the Dayton OmniMic system

I'm still searching the forums to see if anyone else has already done that. Chances are someone has and there are several other Audi forums out there besides this one. I just have to find the time to devote to the search. The 8-ohm speakers for the non-B&O system are on back order until January so I can't do anything about kits for them until I can get more speakers. Right now I'm trying to decide what to do about the B&O system kits. I had been using a 10 uF capacitor as a 4 kHz high pass filter based on the posts in kmarei's thread about his brackets as well as the fact that both the B&O and non-B&O OEM tweeters use the same high pass filter point. After seeing the actual crossover frequencies that I posted previously I'm concerned that the crossover point may be way too high. It appears that the dash speakers are actually crossed over at around 250 Hz for the two outer speakers with the center speaker having a bandpass of between 500 Hz and 12 kHz. The tweeters in the door sail panels are crossed over at 4 kHz so I'm wondering if that's where the value came from. Whatever the case, people don't seem to mind the Daytons being crossed over at 4 kHz and I don't have a B&O system to experiment with.

[Bobby Kinstle]

Another thing you can do is get a test tone generator for your phone and play the tones through bluetooth while holding your ear close to the speaker while you roll the frequency up and down. You won't be able to tell amplitude very well and the tweeters will roll off over a range so it's a generalization at best, but it's better than nothing (assuming you aren't old and can still hear those frequencies) :)

[captain_video]

Another thing you can do is get a test tone generator for your phone and play the tones through bluetooth while holding your ear close to the speaker while you roll the frequency up and down. You won't be able to tell amplitude very well and the tweeters will roll off over a range so it's a generalization at best, but it's better than nothing (assuming you aren't old and can still hear those frequencies) :)

LOL, that depends on what you qualify as old. I'll be 70 in January.