Petro 94 vs Shell 91 vs Esso 91 which is best for our car?!?

[jschrauwen]

That sucks for you guys. Some Chevron stations out west have ethanol-free 94. I get noticbly better milage... Around .5 L/100.

V1Rotate

I sure miss that 94 octane Chevron when I lived on Vancouver Island.

[spin0rz]

I sure miss that 94 octane Chevron when I lived on Vancouver Island.

God damn.. Makes me want to stop running my 94 map on my car... 30% ethanol? Been running 94 at petro for months and the range is awful. Makes sense now... I did enjoy the power gains.


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[jschrauwen]

God damn.. Makes me want to stop running my 94 map on my car... 30% ethanol? Been running 94 at petro for months and the range is awful. Makes sense now... I did enjoy the power gains.

The nature of ethanol does allow one to run slightly higher boost compared to the same level octane with zero ethanol. Although it does take more ethanol to achieve the same amount of power per compression then non ethanol gas of the same octane rating.

[GolfGL]

I was a long-term Shell V-Power and then Shell Nitro user for all my cars. On my S6, with the EPL 93 tune, I got knocking and noticed timing was dialed-back during adaptation. Upon ECU reset (clearing faults), the car would slowly adapt and put out more power, and then knocking would occur, and car would dial back. With Petrocan 94, I am able to maintain the power after adaptation. I loved Shell and the mileage I used to get (about 0.5L/100km) but in my case a 93 tune requires 94 fuel. On my previous cars, Canadian 91 was good enough for the 93 tunes (APR, GIAC, Revo).

[Francois]

I'm using PetroCanada 94 because of my Revo Tune Stage 1, power is great and I do 400km with a full tank

[deucescorner]

Only 400km???, I'm on GIAC stage 2 and I get 620km in winter and 680-700km in summer. Using Ultramar 91 or shell 91


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[GolfGL]

Only 400km???, I'm on GIAC stage 2 and I get 620km in winter and 680-700km in summer. Using Ultramar 91 or shell 91


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On an S4 or A7? 3.0T or 2.0T? In mixed driving, I used to get 450-500km on my S4. About the same with the 4.0T in the S6.

[deucescorner]

On an S4 or A7? 3.0T or 2.0T? In mixed driving, I used to get 450-500km on my S4. About the same with the 4.0T in the S6.

On the S4 mixed driving as long as I don't get too excited though lol


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[Pr0n]

Use what your car is tuned for.

[jschrauwen]

I was a long-term Shell V-Power and then Shell Nitro user for all my cars. On my S6, with the EPL 93 tune, I got knocking and noticed timing was dialed-back during adaptation. Upon ECU reset (clearing faults), the car would slowly adapt and put out more power, and then knocking would occur, and car would dial back. With Petrocan 94, I am able to maintain the power after adaptation. I loved Shell and the mileage I used to get (about 0.5L/100km) but in my case a 93 tune requires 94 fuel. On my previous cars, Canadian 91 was good enough for the 93 tunes (APR, GIAC, Revo).

Is this a canned chip tune? From the USA? If so, then that 93 octane tune is probably based on a non ethanol 93 octane. You'd probably get the most from that tune using Shell 91 with an octane additive.

[Francois]

Only 400km???, I'm on GIAC stage 2 and I get 620km in winter and 680-700km in summer. Using Ultramar 91 or shell 91


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I would like to do 650km on a tank, I mostly drive in the city, not on highway, is that realistic ?

I could also change the preset of my tune for octane 91 and try with Shell.

[Tanner]

On the S4 mixed driving as long as I don't get too excited though lol

I would like to do 650km on a tank, I mostly drive in the city, not on highway, is that realistic ?

Best I can do with my stock B8 S4 is 600-620km on the highway. City, 480-500 range in the winter and a little more in the summer.... getting in average 13.66/100km (17.2 mpg). Stop and go is a killer on mileage.

[GolfGL]

Is this a canned chip tune? From the USA? If so, then that 93 octane tune is probably based on a non ethanol 93 octane. You'd probably get the most from that tune using Shell 91 with an octane additive.

Yes, it's a tune for the C7 S6 based on my ECU box code, not custom to my car (if that's what you meant). EPL is from Connecticut. Shell 91 with octane additive sounds like a lot of work for a daily-driver. If anything, I might flash their 91 tune, which is available to me on their server, and try it with the Shell 91 for comparison. Thanks!

[jschrauwen]

Yes, it's a tune for the C7 S6 based on my ECU box code, not custom to my car (if that's what you meant). EPL is from Connecticut. Shell 91 with octane additive sounds like a lot of work for a daily-driver. If anything, I might flash their 91 tune, which is available to me on their server, and try it with the Shell 91 for comparison. Thanks!

I'd be interested to see/hear the results of that.

[jschrauwen]

I'm using PetroCanada 94 because of my Revo Tune Stage 1, power is great and I do 400km with a full tank

Yikes!! My 2000 A4 2.8L would get ~ 330kms to 350kms for the first half tank on the highway. My 2008 A5 3.2L would get between 350kms to 370kms for the first half tank on the highway.
Heck, even my TT 300ZX with 572rwhp/590rwtq after dyno tune gave me roughly 23mpg on the highway. Before the dyno, I was on a canned chipped tune and I had considerably poorer gas mileage and much less hp/tq.
A dyno tune will always trump a canned chip tune every day, power-wise and gas mileage-wise. Win/Win

[Chaldo]

Like the title said, I've been doing some reading as of late and I'm trying to figure out which gas is best for our cars. I'm currently on a AWE/GIAC stage 2 setup. Daily driving on my 91 tune but i'm wondering if i should switch to using Petro 94. It's a little confusing because from what I've read some users say that the 10% ethanol found in Petro 94 gives better gas mileage and others say they get worse gas mileage. Some say Shell 91 causes their engines to have knocks others say they have no problems with it.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Hey buddy, I've actually used them both but never Esso. The Shell V-Power 91 is amazing, fuel in the city is terrible and I think that's just the car to be honest but highway is great close to 950km/tank. As for the Petro 94, I felt my car burn it a lot quicker and also not as responsive. I personally can't see Esso being better than Petro Canada so if Petro is bad Esso is worse. Shell V-Power in the US is 93 :D and believe me my car loved me.

[Wilbur]

Use what your car is tuned for.

Exactly. Unless mileage comparisons are done exactly the same way in same temp, same distance same everything it doesnt really mean anything. Particularly with turbocharged engines. Same goes for acceleration.
There have been all kinds of tests done regarding use of different octane fuels and in some instances efficiency and accel dropped. Almost all fuel comes from the same place and each company adds their own detergents etc.

[jschrauwen]

While at the Tyandenaga Reservation stocking up on my cheap cigarettes at the Free-Flo gas station, I decided to check out the gas pump ethanol content. I confirmed with the station owner that the 91 octane is ethanol free. Bonus - cheap cigs and cheap gas. :)

]

[Sport Line]

I am doing 400km with my EPL Stage 2 s6 , 93 octanes ,using Petro Canada 94 before and after the tune , no complains . Same for my wife's EPL Stage 2 q5 93 octanes , same 400km range maybe a bit less . Most city driving

[Wilbur]

Best I can do with my stock B8 S4 is 600-620km on the highway. City, 480-500 range in the winter and a little more in the summer.... getting in average 13.66/100km (17.2 mpg). Stop and go is a killer on mileage.

oops

[waxxonMTL]

I am doing 400km with my EPL Stage 2 s6 , 93 octanes ,using Petro Canada 94 before and after the tune , no complains . Same for my wife's EPL Stage 2 q5 93 octanes , same 400km range maybe a bit less . Most city driving

if you check, you will see the price for 91 vpower is very high.. its actually only 2-3cent cheaper than petro94 in Quebec. Hence why i dont bother and fill up with petro94 with a 93octane tune. I should do some log tho.. maybe the tuner will tell me my gas is bad. I don't know.

[roboto_1337]

Will only ever run Ultra94... JHM 93 tune... and I make gasoline for a living.

From the Petro-Canada website...

Does Ultra 94 contain ethanol? Does Petro-Canada still offer an ethanol-free gasoline?
Ultra 94 contains ethanol. Due to the fact that various fuel grades are blended at the point of sale, most grades of Petro-Canada fuel may now contain up to 10% ethanol. This represents a change from the previous state, where premium fuel was ethanol-free at Petro-Canada.

I've also found methods to check ... Methanol is an alcohol which is water soluble.... so this test will let you determine how much ethanol is in the gasoline... it's not as quantitative as you might like, but it'll be a neat little experiment to determine what grades have more/less ethanol. Additionally I've been looking to find if Petro-91 has ethanol... they're not too clear on whether it does or not.

Here is how you check. First you can ask the attendant how often they check their gas for water. If they tell you twice a day then that gas station has not converted to ethanol free gas. If they check the tanks once a week or once every two weeks then that gas station has changed over to ethanol free gas at all blends. The other way to check for your own personal satisfaction is as follows. Take a 500ml water bottle and leave 1.5 inches of water in the bottle and mark that water line with a magic marker. Then fill the water bottle with gas to 3/4's full. Then shake the water bottle. Let the fluid settle and if the water level has risen then there is ethanol. If the water level stays the same then you have ethanol free gas.

[Leeroy]

A friend of mine with a Unitronic stage 2 tuned S4 was telling me Shell V-Power 91 would get me more power and better gas mileage than Petro Can 94 based on the ethanol content in Petro Can, I figured I would try 3/4 of a tank of 91 V power.

I recently went to the drag strip at TMP Cayuga last Sunday (Sept 29), I didn't necessarily go to race as there was a private event being held by Eurocharged Canada. A friend of mine knew the owners and asked them if I can try my car down the strip a few times since there were not many people so I did, my B8.5 S4 with an EPL stage 2 tune did a best time of 12.05 and this was with shell 91. Now I did put some Lucas Octane booster before I left in case I did have the chance to go down but the car performed well. I wonder if I had Petro Can 94 would the results be the same?

[John@Unitronic]

Quite an old thread revival here! Petro Canada 94 octane is not all created equal. In some regions of Quebec, Petro Canada sells their SuperClean94, which is 94 R+M/2 (99-100RON). Everywhere else in Canada, Petro Canada offers Ultra94, which is closer to 93 R+M/2 (98RON). I just wanted to chime in and mention this, as the two fuels sold by the same brand in different regions is often overlooked; they are vastly and distinctly different fuels.

[fstr n u]

So does anyone have an actual factual verdict on 91 octane (no ethanol) vs 93/94 octane (with 10-30% ethanol)....which in the end will produce zero knock and the most efficient combustion?

I'm using 94 Husky octane in my turbo Camaro (825hp) and never had a problem. I've just tuned my S4 and i'm wondering if i should stick with Shell 91 octane or swap to Husky 94 octane w ethanol?

[outsider6661]

So does anyone have an actual factual verdict on 91 octane (no ethanol) vs 93/94 octane (with 10-30% ethanol)....which in the end will produce zero knock and the most efficient combustion?

I'm using 94 Husky octane in my turbo Camaro (825hp) and never had a problem. I've just tuned my S4 and i'm wondering if i should stick with Shell 91 octane or swap to Husky 94 octane w ethanol?

Finally some asked for factual information! A lot of conjecture in this thread with no supporting facts to back each persons point.

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[Theiceman]

vpower for me .. so i can drive like i'm schumacher in a Ferrari..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItzJc-NHI4

crank up the volume ..

[G-Can]

I have once again proved myself that esso fuel is garbage.

On my second tank with shell and fuel consumption went down drastically

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[MugelloB7RS4]

So does anyone have an actual factual verdict on 91 octane (no ethanol) vs 93/94 octane (with 10-30% ethanol)....which in the end will produce zero knock and the most efficient combustion?

I'm using 94 Husky octane in my turbo Camaro (825hp) and never had a problem. I've just tuned my S4 and i'm wondering if i should stick with Shell 91 octane or swap to Husky 94 octane w ethanol?

So, Im not a genious so I could be totally out of left field, however lets give it a shot. If you look at the amount of energy in 1L of gasoline vs 1L of ethanol, the gasoline has more energy. Meaning if you were to use 1L of straight gasoline you would make more power than 1L of ethanol. Thats just straight up Chemistry

People start to blend and mix them due to the fact that ethanol naturally has an octane rating higher than gasoline. So if we think about that, that means that the ethanol won't make as much power per unit volume as gasoline but it will allow for advanced timing (due to the octane increase) which will make more power. To compensate for ethanol containing less energy, they usually have to increase the amount of fuel going through the system.

Unfortunately it's often difficult to tell with pump gas exactly how much ethanol is in it, so trying to use it for any type of reasonable tuning could be difficult. Pumps will often say "contains min x% ethanol" even in the states or anywhere you can get E85, I've heard stories of it actually only being 35-40% ethanol so unless you have a constant reliable source (your own drum) getting repeatable, consistent and safe results tuning for ethanol could be difficult.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Ethanol is corrosive so unless your fuel system was designed to handle it, you might be doing more harm than good. I think I saw an Audi document for my car (B7) that said not to use fuel that contained more than 10% ethanol. Alot of people will push back and say they've used higher Ethanol contents without issue, and that may be, however I'm okay sticking with Ethanol free fuel.

So its sorta tricky to answer your question. It depends on how much risk you're willing to assume and how much money you want to spend. Sounds like you've spent alot of money on the Camaro, so for me, I would order a barrel of race fuel. Something with little to no Ethanol but octane in the 100ish range. Then you have the benefit of the fuel having more energy per unit, high octane, and reducing the chance of corrosion happening in the fuel system.

Personally in my car, I try to never run anything but ethanol free fuels because I don't want to have to worry about side effects.

Interesting story, I've been having high pressure fuel pump issues for a bit, so I reached out a respected shop owner who used to work on Bosch fuel management systems and work on the Audi ALMS team as their fuel system specialist. When I told him I seem to be going through pumps more often than usual, his first question was how much ethanol is in your fuel because it's been know to bung up high pressure pumps. This was enough for me to confirm that I should stay away from Ethanol.

Hopefully that helps, it's not super technical but might be advantageous and help make a decision.

[Wilbur]

Where can we get Ethanol free fuel other than at a Marina?. I googled it and EVERY manufacturer says fuel may contain up to 10%.

[Wilbur]

I have once again proved myself that esso fuel is garbage.

On my second tank with shell and fuel consumption went down drastically

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What do you mean by "drastically"?. Garbage? Did you travel the exact same route in same temperature at the exact same speeds? If not its just a guess really. Oh yea, most fuel comes from the same place, the only difference is the additives.

[MugelloB7RS4]

Where can we get Ethanol free fuel other than at a Marina?. I googled it and EVERY manufacturer says fuel may contain up to 10%.

Shell 91 has no ethanol

This site might help also https://www.pure-gas.org/

[G-Can]

What do you mean by "drastically"?. Garbage? Did you travel the exact same route in same temperature at the exact same speeds? If not its just a guess really. Oh yea, most fuel comes from the same place, the only difference is the additives.

Well If I take same route to work and back, and no extra trips, then I'm pretty confident and I keep track how many miles I make with a tank.

I had exact same issue with my vr6 Jetta, when all of a sudden when I tanked on esso I had about 70km less on a tank. I was like wth.
Did few tanks with esso. Mileage same.
Went back to shell, and instantly next tank I made 70kms more. And continued.

So I gave esso a shot again, and its same shit. I get less mileage.

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[jschrauwen]

Shell 91 has no ethanol

This site might help also https://www.pure-gas.org/

I've been using the phone app of that site for years.

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[Wilbur]

Interesting. If you google it each manufacturer shows that they all have ethanol in all fuels. That pure gas site looks fairly worthless.

- - - Updated - - -

Well If I take same route to work and back, and no extra trips, then I'm pretty confident and I keep track how many miles I make with a tank.

I had exact same issue with my vr6 Jetta, when all of a sudden when I tanked on esso I had about 70km less on a tank. I was like wth.
Did few tanks with esso. Mileage same.
Went back to shell, and instantly next tank I made 70kms more. And continued.

So I gave esso a shot again, and its same shit. I get less mileage.

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70 kms is a lot. I wonder what is causing that?

[MugelloB7RS4]

Interesting. If you google it each manufacturer shows that they all have ethanol in all fuels. That pure gas site looks fairly worthless.

https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/motorists...-gasoline.html

Just above the "Engineered with four levels of defence" It states "0% ethanol at every station in Canada" for V power fuel

[G-Can]

Interesting. If you google it each manufacturer shows that they all have ethanol in all fuels. That pure gas site looks fairly worthless.

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70 kms is a lot. I wonder what is causing that?

Yeah, tell me about it. Especially when u drive a guzzler like VR6

I started doubting that their gas meters are lying and that I'm actually filling less fuel then it shows

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[Theiceman]

Where can we get Ethanol free fuel other than at a Marina?. I googled it and EVERY manufacturer says fuel may contain up to 10%.

dude you didnt look far ... shell Vpower ..

[Wilbur]

THANKS! Not really worried about my car but Polaris sled has 2 settings, one is ethanol free which changes map to max power.Actually....think I will start running that in my S5. Just found an app called Pure Gas. Lists stations everywhere. Thanks very much for your help.

[Theiceman]

on a seasonal vehicle i will ALWAYS use ethanol free..