A6 3.0TDI Quattro 204HP hybrid turbo dyno sheet

[raffshore]

Hi,

Last year I bought this A6.



It has the CLAA engine and DL501 S tronic gearbox

I was able to get my hands on a experimental ball bearing turbo from audi and had a hybrid made out of it.



These are my numbers now.

I just finished mounting bigger injectors.

I a few weeks I will have a new remap but first I have to do something about the gearbox because the clutches don't like the torque.

If you guys are interested I will document the clutch change.

With these injectors I hope to make 900+ nm and 400+ HP

bye

[TT 4.0T]

Interesting project. Have you tried increasing the line pressure/clamping force in the transmission calibration? Which company's clutch upgrade are you thinking of going with?

[raffshore]

Hi,

No I haven't.
I had a gearbox reflash by "a specialist" but I could not feel any difference.
This gearbox is rated 550NM and I have driven it for 15000 miles with 320HP and 680nm

I have a DL501 damos file but there are like 3000 maps in the transmission.
standard torque of my engine was 550NM
What I have to look into is the fact that when upshifting the gearbox asks the engine to reduce only 500nm of torque
With the new injectors it is slipping in al gears.

I ordered the ones from SSP. Kris sounded like a nice guy who knows what he is talking about.
His plates are dyno tested 800ft/lbs so I should be ok.
I have seen the pressure maps but changing the pressure might inflict other problems in gearcase no.


I have done a lot of research but found little info on reinforced clutches for DL501, you know other companies who has them?

[gk1]

What is odd is 737 Nm (543 ft-lb) and even 900Nm (663 ft-lb) are below Stage I (627+ ft-lbs) and Stage II (696+ ft-lbs.) for the 4.0T in the S6/7 and there have been no known reported slippage problems on the same DL501. Is it due to the way the diesel applies that torque over the available rev range? What indication did you have that there was clutch slippage?

[raffshore]

I don't know but I doubt those dyne numbers or as you say could be the low rpm

A video tells more then a 1000 words :)

[raffshore]

This video is after the dyno pull with the small injectors.

Sometimes there was a little bit of slip

[TT 4.0T]

I think it's the low-end torque that kills the clutches and not so much the peak torque. Look at the chart he posted. He's making 700nm at 2500 RPMs. It is similar to a Stage II S6; however, how often do our cars even see 2500 RPMs on the street, let alone that kind of torque at that low of an RPM? Because it's a diesel and doesn't rev anywhere near as high as our petrol engines, his tranny has much steeper gear ratios than our cars. So he'll be seeing much lower RPMs and greater low end torque than we see in the real world (not the dyno). That's why I hate dynos... They can really beat your car up and break stuff.

It's also conceivable that his DL501 doesn't have the same clutches that our cars have. People on the forums always argue about the max torque capacity for the various Audi transmissions. For example, the DQ250 in the A3/S3 is posted in different technical literature and manuals online as having wildly different max. torque capacities. The reason for that is that not all DQ250 transmissions are created equally. A DQ250 in a Euro 1.2 TFSI A3 may not necessarily share identical gearbox internals such as the clutches with a DQ250 in the S3. So it may be the same case here with the DL501.

What is odd is 737 Nm (543 ft-lb) and even 900Nm (663 ft-lb) are below Stage I (627+ ft-lbs) and Stage II (696+ ft-lbs.) for the 4.0T in the S6/7 and there have been no known reported slippage problems on the same DL501. Is it due to the way the diesel applies that torque over the available rev range? What indication did you have that there was clutch slippage?

[TT 4.0T]

SSP is the only shop that I know of which makes the clutch discs for the DL501. There hasn't been much demand for that kind of upgrade here in the states because even the most modified (ie highest torque) S4 3.0T and S6 4.0Ts have been fine with the stock clutches. I only know of one car with the SSP clutch upgrade and it's a supercharged Audi R8 that runs low 10's in the 1/4 mile. You may want to talk to the guys at United Motorsports. They claim the Audi DSG clutch upgrades are extremely harsh on the street and don't last very long. I think that's experience with the 6-speed DSG though (DQ250) so it may not necessarily apply to the DL501 in our cars.

Just curious, what made you decide to go with the TDI? With that kind of torque, it must be fun on the street but nowhere near as fast as say a tuned 4.0T.

Hi,

No I haven't.
I had a gearbox reflash by "a specialist" but I could not feel any difference.
This gearbox is rated 550NM and I have driven it for 15000 miles with 320HP and 680nm

I have a DL501 damos file but there are like 3000 maps in the transmission.
standard torque of my engine was 550NM
What I have to look into is the fact that when upshifting the gearbox asks the engine to reduce only 500nm of torque
With the new injectors it is slipping in al gears.

I ordered the ones from SSP. Kris sounded like a nice guy who knows what he is talking about.
His plates are dyno tested 800ft/lbs so I should be ok.
I have seen the pressure maps but changing the pressure might inflict other problems in gearcase no.


I have done a lot of research but found little info on reinforced clutches for DL501, you know other companies who has them?

[raffshore]

I think it's the low-end torque that kills the clutches and not so much the peak torque. Look at the chart he posted. He's making 700nm at 2500 RPMs. It is similar to a Stage II S6; however, how often do our cars even see 2500 RPMs on the street, let alone that kind of torque at that low of an RPM? Because it's a diesel and doesn't rev anywhere near as high as our petrol engines, his tranny has much steeper gear ratios than our cars. So he'll be seeing much lower RPMs and greater low end torque than we see in the real world (not the dyno). That's why I hate dynos... They can really beat your car up and break stuff.

It's also conceivable that his DL501 doesn't have the same clutches that our cars have. People on the forums always argue about the max torque capacity for the various Audi transmissions. For example, the DQ250 in the A3/S3 is posted in different technical literature and manuals online as having wildly different max. torque capacities. The reason for that is that not all DQ250 transmissions are created equally. A DQ250 in a Euro 1.2 TFSI A3 may not necessarily share identical gearbox internals such as the clutches with a DQ250 in the S3. So it may be the same case here with the DL501.

I didn't have any time to check if the part numbers are the same but they could be different.

On the dyno run I didn't have any issues with slip.

Kris from SSP told me they developed the clutches for S6/7 with modified turbo's making around 800 ft/lbs and 1000+HP.
Other then the clutches there is no weak spot in the trans he says

I guess I am going to find out

[TT 4.0T]

DL501 transmission part numbers or OEM clutch part numbers?

Ask Kris which S6 he's referring to. Because I don't know of any that run upgraded clutch discs.

I didn't have any time to check if the part numbers are the same but they could be different.

On the dyno run I didn't have any issues with slip.

Kris from SSP told me they developed the clutches for S6/7 with modified turbo's making around 800 ft/lbs and 1000+HP.
Other then the clutches there is no weak spot in the trans he says

I guess I am going to find out

[raffshore]

SSP is the only shop that I know of which makes the clutch discs for the DL501. There hasn't been much demand for that kind of upgrade here in the states because even the most modified (ie highest torque) S4 3.0T and S6 4.0Ts have been fine with the stock clutches. I only know of one car with the SSP clutch upgrade and it's a supercharged Audi R8 that runs low 10's in the 1/4 mile. You may want to talk to the guys at United Motorsports. They claim the Audi DSG clutch upgrades are extremely harsh on the street and don't last very long. I think that's experience with the 6-speed DSG though (DQ250) so it may not necessarily apply to the DL501 in our cars.

Just curious, what made you decide to go with the TDI? With that kind of torque, it must be fun on the street but nowhere near as fast as say a tuned 4.0T.

Because of the cost of fuel and taxes here in europe.
for example on a 3000 km trip I did 46 mpg

I will see how it goes with the clutches I start to figure out the programming of the transmission I'll let you know it goes.

You could be surprised of the speed, we have a 3.0TDI in a A4 that does 0 - 200km/h in 13.5 s :)

[gk1]

I think it's the low-end torque that kills the clutches and not so much the peak torque. Look at the chart he posted. He's making 700nm at 2500 RPMs. It is similar to a Stage II S6; however, how often do our cars even see 2500 RPMs on the street, let alone that kind of torque at that low of an RPM? Because it's a diesel and doesn't rev anywhere near as high as our petrol engines, his tranny has much steeper gear ratios than our cars. So he'll be seeing much lower RPMs and greater low end torque than we see in the real world (not the dyno). That's why I hate dynos... They can really beat your car up and break stuff.

It's also conceivable that his DL501 doesn't have the same clutches that our cars have. People on the forums always argue about the max torque capacity for the various Audi transmissions. For example, the DQ250 in the A3/S3 is posted in different technical literature and manuals online as having wildly different max. torque capacities. The reason for that is that not all DQ250 transmissions are created equally. A DQ250 in a Euro 1.2 TFSI A3 may not necessarily share identical gearbox internals such as the clutches with a DQ250 in the S3. So it may be the same case here with the DL501.

While I agree with your second parts...perhaps the DL501 on the TDI has different internals than the one on the S6. I don't quite get your first part. Stage I S6 is rated for 550+ ft-lbs (750+ Nm) at 2500 RPM which I hit easily every day I drive....if I didn't I think it would be time to get a different car.
Unless his graph is wheel ratings, but looking at it I take CEngTq to be corrected engine torque not AWtorque....
Anyway I look forward to raff's details on the clutch swap and results.

[raffshore]

SSP is the only shop that I know of which makes the clutch discs for the DL501. There hasn't been much demand for that kind of upgrade here in the states because even the most modified (ie highest torque) S4 3.0T and S6 4.0Ts have been fine with the stock clutches. I only know of one car with the SSP clutch upgrade and it's a supercharged Audi R8 that runs low 10's in the 1/4 mile. You may want to talk to the guys at United Motorsports. They claim the Audi DSG clutch upgrades are extremely harsh on the street and don't last very long. I think that's experience with the 6-speed DSG though (DQ250) so it may not necessarily apply to the DL501 in our cars.

Just curious, what made you decide to go with the TDI? With that kind of torque, it must be fun on the street but nowhere near as fast as say a tuned 4.0T.

Hi, I was thinking some more about this.

Imo you cannot over clutch a dsg transmission.
If their car is harsh on the clutches that must me a programming issue.

In the gearbox ECU there is a map which controls the engine torque.
When shifting it reduces engine torque by 500NM on my car.

Standaard 3.0TDI makes 550 nm (like standard S6) so when shifting you have only 50nm of torque on the input.

So if you are making 800 nm you wil have 300 nm on the input and yes that could be considered as harsh

Raf

[raffshore]

the clutches are in !

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post12099972

[raffshore]

I think I have a new diesel record :)

[PK Auto Design]

What kind of MPG are you getting?
I gave my A3 TDI back to Audi for as part of the buy back. Miss the MPG.

I think I have a new diesel record :)

link won't work

[raffshore]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qc...0-w890-h666-no

[raffshore]

What kind of MPG are you getting?
I gave my A3 TDI back to Audi for as part of the buy back. Miss the MPG.



link won't work

I am making now 461HP and 885NM

I don't know how may miles / gallon but in normal daily use I am at 8L every 100KM
120Km/h on the highway that drops to 5,8L/100KM

bye

[C7_204]

Thanks for the inspiration @raffshore
I did swap GTB2056VZK to GTB2260VZK. I'm super happy with the results!

More details can be found here:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-HP-amp-635-Nm


[spoiler=Dyno results]

[/spoiler]