Staggered or not staggered?!

[flaudia402]

Thats the question...what do you guys think?

[DolphinV8]

do it if you like it.

I am not a fan of it though if you have quattro.

[EBG 18T]

NO. If you wanted staggered you should have bought a BMW.

[HP18]

I think it makes the car look more aggressive. If you like it go for it.

[Tinman]

not something I'd do with the quattro.

plus, if you don't stagger, then you can rotate.


L8

[vinny.dtw]

^^^ what they said! no stagger pour la quattro

[Chas]

go straggered. it looks cool.

are you going to go to the track? didnt think so. it should matter then

[EC Motorwerks]

Originally posted by Chas
go straggered. it looks cool.

are you going to go to the track? didnt think so. it should matter then

Have I missed anything here lately? Everytime you post in a thread you seem to attack or ridicule that person.

[AvanTTix]

Originally posted by carson0627
I am not a fan of it though if you have quattro.

why?

Originally posted by EBG 18T
NO. If you wanted staggered you should have bought a BMW.

why?

Originally posted by Tinman
not something I'd do with the quattro.

why?

Originally posted by Vinny05.dtw
^^^ what they said! no stagger pour la quattro

why?



you guys are kind of funny... you all say you wouldn't but none of you are actually saying why you wouldn't... most likely it's all hearsay...

done right, staggered isn't that much of an issue as long as you don't autoX the car... beside i would hope if you were to track the car you would use a different set of tires...

there's plenty of threads on staggered... and here's a summary of my findings when i looked into that exact topic... and i went w/ staggered.

[xonetruthcrewx]

no.

[vinny.dtw]

Originally posted by Avantéix
why?

why?

why?

why?



you guys are kind of funny... you all say you wouldn't but none of you are actually saying why you wouldn't... most likely it's all hearsay...

done right, staggered isn't that much of an issue as long as you don't autoX the car... beside i would hope if you were to track the car you would use a different set of tires...

there's plenty of threads on staggered... and here's a summary of my findings when i looked into that exact topic... and i went w/ staggered.

Cuz were lazy people and dont have time to deal with so much rubbing and camber issues...I read your thread about staggered wheels, and its great that you have contributed so much info for the audi public.

And im not a man of knowledge about quattro and staggered setup. But my only question about a staggered setup would be, even if your rolling diameter of the wheel is maintained. The tire surface that is touching the ground is not the same as the front wheels. Therefore wouldnt that cause any problems with the differentials? Since the traction of the rear wheels would be greater then the front during hard cornering or in the snow?

it just seems to be an awful lot of work just to achieve the staggered "look"

[AvanTTix]

well again, i would hope that if you're in an area where you're likely to be faced w/ snow, you would have another set of dedicated snow tires/rims... i mean running 19"s in snow is just nonsense, whether it's staggered or not... the narrower the tire (w/i limits) the better it will perform in snow...

[AvanTTix]

Originally posted by Vinny05.dtw
But my only question about a staggered setup would be, even if your rolling diameter of the wheel is maintained. The tire surface that is touching the ground is not the same as the front wheels. Therefore wouldnt that cause any problems with the differentials?

this part addresses the differential issue:

Originally posted by Avantéix
from what i've gathered the main concern is about the differential and making sure that the difference in the rolling diameter btw the front and the rear tires is minimum.

some say 5%... some say under 3%... and some Audi techs have no ideas what you're worried about when talking to them about that particular issue...
it is also interesting to note, as it was pointed out to me, that no mention of this can be found in the user manual either... one would thing that along w/ the changing tire section there would be some kind of warning about that... but anyway that doesn't really matter...

i've also found no documented reports on here or AW about a differencial failure due to a staggered set-up... and if there is, well i obviously missed it... not that i read all of the posts on Quattro and staggered mind you...

[vinny.dtw]

Originally posted by Avantéix
this part addresses the differential issue:

so there is a problem...just that the problem hasnt appeared yet?

[Sherpa]

I guess if you don't know how to drive and want to stay that way, go staggered!

I understand people who do stuff for looks, that's ok. But if you think you're gaining any performance out of it, you're absolutely wrong. Your car will understeer even MORE than it already does.

Have fun.

[A4NCAR]

Are 4x4's, AWD SUV's,..etc staggered? Do FWD's have wider front wheels? Personally, I wouldn't stagger quattro, it doesn't make sense. But if that's what you want, go ahead and do it. People will always be able to rationalize doing it too. If it was ok, Audi would do it.
You could use the same tire size all around (stretch rear). Also keep in mind that you can't rotate wheels.

[fongaroos]

staggered =

but thats just my 2 cents...

[AvanTTix]

Originally posted by Sherpa
I guess if you don't know how to drive and want to stay that way, go staggered!

I understand people who do stuff for looks, that's ok. But if you think you're gaining any performance out of it, you're absolutely wrong. Your car will understeer even MORE than it already does.

Have fun.

only comment i'm gonna make here... again...

Originally posted by Avant�ix
done right, staggered isn't that much of an issue as long as you don't autoX the car... beside i would hope if you were to track the car you would use a different set of tires...

wasn't that clear enough... now who said staggered was gonna improve performances... ... beside it's not like you're gonna experience extreme understeer when using the car as a daily driver... unless you use the streets as your personal race track... ... give me a brake!

[bhvrdr]

I think what people are trying to get across is basically that it depends on what your desires are. Some people place style and "wow factor" above performance and that is just fine. Some people mod for strictly performance and that is fine to. A lot of people mod for both reasons. If looking for style, than certainly a correctly sized staggared setup will not cause significant problems over the long haul but certainly may void some drivetrain components whether justified or not. It is a quite appealing look. If concerned about performance, than perhaps even running a reverse staggared setup or non staggared setup would be of choice. Interestingly Pontiac has indeed started running a reverse staggared setup on their hi powered FWD cars and is having good results. Some are pointing out that you could aways have a set of "show" rims that are staggared and performance rims that are non staggared.

cheers! Mike

[vinny.dtw]

im not bashing on staggered cars...i just want to know the probs now...since you said earlier how thats the issue with the differentials. When there is a wider tire in the rears. Sorry im just a curious SOB..lol

[bhvrdr]

I think the issue referred to come from many people forgetting to pay attention to proper upsizing or staggar sizing and instead going with the largest rear tire/wheel that a manufacturer tells them will fit. This may cause a significant different between rolling diameters front to rear causing significant safety, performance, and reliability problems as seen by the idiots at European car who accidentally incorrectly upsized a Porsche Turbo and found it do handle "scary" after doing so but couldnt figure out why. Correctly taking into account rolling diameters would likely alleviate at least some of these handling concerns (certainly not all), most of the reliability concerns, and some of the safety concerns. cheers! Mike

[cuco33]

the staggered look, when done right, is just down right hot.
same goes for the stretched tire look.
you wont see me doing either...

i'm a performance oriented kind of guy and if it remotely affects the way my car rides then i wont be doing it. godforbid that split second incident where something happens on the road and your 'styling choice' actually promotes the risk of an accident rather than hindering the same risk, well then you'll finally realize that fashion/style means nothing

as an engineer, i live by the motto... function over form
others reverse the role.
above all else, to each his own...

[momo]

do it

[gohan]

i hear a lot of negativity about staggered + Quattro, but has anybody personally ever experienced anything going wrong because of their staggered wheels? I’m not picking sides, just curious

[DolphinV8]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Avantéix
[B]why?

why?

why?

why?



you guys are kind of funny... you all say you wouldn't but none of you are actually saying why you wouldn't... most likely it's all hearsay...

rotation...

[bhvrdr]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carson0627
[B]

Originally posted by Avantéix
why?

why?

why?

why?



you guys are kind of funny... you all say you wouldn't but none of you are actually saying why you wouldn't... most likely it's all hearsay...

rotation...

POSTED earlier by Carson

"do it if you like it.

I am not a fan of it though if you have quattro."

Why arent you a big fan of it if you have quattro :)

cheers! Mike

[Lakaiguy]

just do a lower offset on the rear wheels so that way you can still rotate but have that bigger lip in the back smartest way to go for sure, Tamara knows what I'm talkin about (Petes old wheels/iforged)

[Chas]

Originally posted by EC Motorwerks
Have I missed anything here lately? Everytime you post in a thread you seem to attack or ridicule that person.

Are you the protective girlfriend or the overly jealous boyfriend? Relax partner, half these people I know personally and share with them inside jokes you will never know.

And besides, I don't know how my comment was sarcastic or ridiculed anyone. Maybe you should switch to decaf.

[teamBOB]

same size, different offset. thats what i would do. the understeer on my car sucks ass and i wouldnt want even a tiny bit more just to make the car look like a "cool rwd car".... but it does look cool tho

[S-fear]

Here is a long winded why: You can not stagger without changing the rolling diameter of the tires. Mis-matching the rolling diameter of your tires is going to cause excess tire slippage, and excess wear and tear on your drivetrain. Is that what you really want to look cool?

Personallly, I think the rolling diameter would be more critical with a traditional LSD (not a torsen) because the clutch pack in those things wears with time, you are just putting more strain and more wear on the diff by making it work harder. Torsen doesn't have cluch plates, its all gears. I have never heard of one of those wearing out. So, this issue would be bigger on a car like a Subaru (traditional LSD) vs an Audi (torsen lsd).

That said, you are also going to put stress and binding into your whole drivetrain with different diameter tires. There is some play in the system that can take up some of the difference, but sooner or later the tire has to slip, or something is going to brake. The stress has to relieve itself somehow. At a minimum you will just increase the tollerances between parts in your drivetrain - creating more slop in your whole drivetrain - think of a clunk or jerk when you let off the pedal vs accelerating - you have to take up all of the play in the drivetrain before the car reacts. If you put too much stress on the system, you will create more play in the system.

Really, the best way to explain this is to do the following: Go down to your local jeep dealer for a test drive. Get a jeep with part time 4wd (no center differential). Put the thing in 4WD, and start turning in circles in the parking lot. You will quickly bind the drivetrain. The thing is going to lurch and jerk as the tires are forced to slip to relieve the pressure. The U-joints and gears are going to jerk back and forth and groan as the pressure builds up, and then is suddenly released when the tire slips. The whole vehicle will groan and jerk with the strain.

The same thing happens (in a more subtle way) when you stagger tire size. You are putting the drivetrain in a bind - you will strain parts (gears, CV joints), increase tollerances and drivetrain lash, and put extra wear and tear on the whole system.

Your Audi manual is pretty explicit about matching tire brand and size when replacing tires. It is amazing the difference in diameter that a 225/45-17 tire can have between different brands, or even different lines in a brand. You think it would be the same, but it is not.

Why do you think Audi puts a full size spare in your car? I tried driving around on a small 225/45-17 tire (my spare) vs 3 large 225/45-17 tires. Know what? I got a lot more wheel spin on the tire with a smaller diameter. You can't safely drive a quattro on the temporary spare donught that other cars have.

I read an article in Grass Roots Motorsports that went so far as to say if you have a blow out on a tire with 50% tread on it, when you get the new tire to replace it you should get it shaved 50% to match the other 3 tires.

As for the staggered wheels - you are going to change the rolling diameter of the tire when you change the width of the wheel (depending on how much the sidewall is pinched or flared). Its the exact same problem. When tire mfg's state the diameter of a tire - they always state the width of the rim the diameter was measured on. It is going to have different diameter on different width rims.

Yes, you can (to some degree) put mis-matched wheels and tires on a quattro. But, no - you can not do it without increasing wheel slippage, and increasing the wear and tear on your whole drivetrain (i.e. parts will wear out and or brake sooner).

[gohan]

in my case i have 19x8 all around but a more aggressive offset in the rear for the big lip look, thats okai right?

[EBG 18T]

Originally posted by Avantéix
why?

why?

why?

why?



you guys are kind of funny... you all say you wouldn't but none of you are actually saying why you wouldn't... most likely it's all hearsay...

done right, staggered isn't that much of an issue as long as you don't autoX the car... beside i would hope if you were to track the car you would use a different set of tires...

there's plenty of threads on staggered... and here's a summary of my findings when i looked into that exact topic... and i went w/ staggered.

Sorry i forgot to say WHY?

I think it looks retarded on the A4's. I love the staggered look on the lines on the 3 Series BMW's. But not with the lines of the B6 A4.

Just because i don't like it doesn't mean anyone shouldn't do it. he was looking for opinions, and i provided mine. Then again I am only running 17" wheels. Staggered does increase understeer, which our cars have to much of anyways. But if you are not taking you car to the track or auto-x'ing on those wheels it probaly doesn't matter.

[F16HTON]

You may say that you think it looks retarded, but when you walk up on my HREs you will bust a nut all over your pants...the worst part I guess is since I have a STaSIS center diff (40/60 split now) I must have ruined something in my car...

It is absolutely absurd to compare the Quattro drivetrain to a 4x4 Jeep. Does the quattro have a chain driven transfer case? NO!

99% of the members on her have lowered their car, this has a much worse effect on the abilty to rotate tires...besides if you have soend 5 grand on wheels, who cares about tires? just toss them and get another set...most of the guys who run staggered never have the same set or rims for more than a year anyways.

[gohan]

Originally posted by 400HPA4
You may say that you think it looks retarded, but when you walk up on my HREs you will bust a nut all over your pants...the worst part I guess is since I have a STaSIS center diff (40/60 split now) I must have ruined something in my car...

It is absolutely absurd to compare the Quattro drivetrain to a 4x4 Jeep. Does the quattro have a chain driven transfer case? NO!

99% of the members on her have lowered their car, this has a much worse effect on the abilty to rotate tires...besides if you have soend 5 grand on wheels, who cares about tires? just toss them and get another set...most of the guys who run staggered never have the same set or rims for more than a year anyways.

werd

[silverA41.8t]

Staggered is a great look Put 19 x 10's in the rear

[Chas]

Originally posted by 400HPA4
You may say that you think it looks retarded, but when you walk up on my HREs you will bust a nut all over your pants...the worst part I guess is since I have a STaSIS center diff (40/60 split now) I must have ruined something in my car...

It is absolutely absurd to compare the Quattro drivetrain to a 4x4 Jeep. Does the quattro have a chain driven transfer case? NO!

99% of the members on her have lowered their car, this has a much worse effect on the abilty to rotate tires...besides if you have soend 5 grand on wheels, who cares about tires? just toss them and get another set...most of the guys who run staggered never have the same set or rims for more than a year anyways.

Plus, unlike your ass, staggered looks really cool, so I'd do it.

Your ass, that is.

[AudBoost]

Stagger them beotches!

[HP18]

Originally posted by Chas
Plus, unlike your ass, staggered looks really cool, so I'd do it.

Your ass, that is.

[vinny.dtw]

Originally posted by Dj InteNsivE

^^^^what he said...what does that mean? with the ass thing

[EBG 18T]

Originally posted by 400HPA4
You may say that you think it looks retarded, but when you walk up on my HREs you will bust a nut all over your pants...

Your HRE's are sweet. But i just like matching lip on all 4 wheels. To each his own.