THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[mtroxel]

Complete timing chain kit with aftermarket parts for all 4 chains? $4,349.95

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble.../079109229kt3/

[JBAeroEngineer]

Complete timing chain kit with aftermarket parts for all 4 chains? $4,349.95

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble.../079109229kt3/

Bought 2!

[rdennhs]

Thanks for the info guys.

They're taking a deeper dive tomorrow on the damage.

Has there been a consensus on vehicles that are still running vs ones that wouldn't start at all after this tensioner failure?

For instance, could my head still be okay if I drove it back to the shop or are there instances where it's driving and still blown.

I realize now that I shouldn't have started the car at all, and gotten it towed to the shop.

UPDATE: Well, repairs are finished and I've put 200 miles on it since I left the shop. Incredibly grateful I was lucky enough to come out of it with minor damage. Sounds like I dodged a bullet.

Thanks for all the help y'all.

[Theiceman]

UPDATE: Well, repairs are finished and I've put 200 miles on it since I left the shop. Incredibly grateful I was lucky enough to come out of it with minor damage. Sounds like I dodged a bullet.

Thanks for all the help y'all.

quick refresh ? did you do it yourself or have a shop do it ? did the car stall ? or just throw a code ?? just so many guys on here i cant keep track anymore..

great work though and you are back on the road.

[rdennhs]

1. Drove to Chinese restaurant
2. Parked the car. Had a beer and ordered some food to go
3. Tried to start the car with no luck, single push like usual
4. Car eventually started on a long push of ignition about 30 minutes later
5. Sounded like shit, but was on E (15 miles til empty) - CE light on
6. Drove car to gas station that's in between the car's location and private mechanic (2 miles away), felt like it was running on 2 cyl, fueled without turning car off
7. Drove car to mechanic with seemingly half power - some big power surges around 2,500 RPM
8. Car was towed into shop from parking lot next day, chain cover comes off, like 2.5" of slack in chain and tensioner broken
9. Entire chain and tensioner kit replaced among some other parts I assume - full compression on all cylinders.
10. Praised Jah, drank more beer.

[Charles.waite]

Daaaaamn you sure dodged a bullet there. Old style tensioner? What was the cam phase value?

[S-Liner]

Damn dude, sounds familiar! I was out last year running errands and then off to have tires rotated. Once it was all done, the tech was like “car is hard to start, could be coil packs”....yea okay, so I drove 20 miles back home on the 95 cruising at 70. My car ran like shit. Every stoplight home (4 of them) it seemed to get worse, the throttle response was slow, almost as if there was zero boost, it was terrible. Got home pulled codes, the ‘Balls 16 code’. I didn’t want to believe it (idiot!) so I pressed on with trying to get it fired up and into my garage. I got it running eventually but called it quits when I realized the fault code was serious AF.

I am a fool. Luckily though, zero damage to my head. The chain jumped about 4 teeth according to my shop.

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[dalmation53]

that price is preposterous.... lol this kit on ebay is OEM From audi of china. they are making full profit at this price.

Complete timing chain kit with aftermarket parts for all 4 chains? $4,349.95

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble.../079109229kt3/

Screenshot_20200413-210134.jpegScreenshot_20200413-210228.jpeg

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[dalmation53]

check out the Audi logos Screenshot_20200413-210402.jpeg

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[Charles.waite]

that price is preposterous.... lol this kit on ebay is OEM From audi of china. they are making full profit at this price.Screenshot_20200413-210134.jpegScreenshot_20200413-210228.jpeg

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The kit he posted was a 4.2 timing chain kit just FYI.

Having said that I’d deginitely not trust an eBay kit for my chains, regardless of which engine I’m running.

[Chrisc84]

$119 for that kit? Jesus. I don't care if its stamped with a hundred Audi logos, I wouldn't buy. I'm curious to know if any of the 91 people who bought were AZ members and if they can vouch for the kit.

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[Charles.waite]

It even comes with a new crank sprocket. Crazy...

[dalmation53]

It's not en Ebay kit. ebay did not make parts. I buy genuine Lexus parts for my Gf car all the time and they are oem. That kit is proven to work my friend has it on his a4 since 2012 and is running fine. just like you can buy oem used parts on ebay. I don't see why people see the word ebay or amazon and already think is chinese crap. germanpartsaver on ebay seller sells oem audi parts. i have bought coolant flanges,thermostats, and a timing chain guide and chain for my b7 and it was oem.

[Theiceman]

that price is preposterous.... lol this kit on ebay is OEM From audi of china. they are making full profit at this price.Screenshot_20200413-210134.jpegScreenshot_20200413-210228.jpeg

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dude i really hope that was tongue in cheek " Audi of China ? " really ??

You can do whatever you want but there are two things to consider.

1. China is not known for Counterfeiting at all ( okay that was tongue in cheek) so its no surprise you would see a logo on a piece of stamped out chineesium )
2. They Probably stole the pic too s i would not be surprised if your hundred dollar kit had no markings when it showed up .

Really its up to you , you can put the cheapest possible parts in your engine, and hope for the best, and it might work out for you. But if you are wrong the downside is extreme. The way i look at it , any internals to the engine has to OE no question . anything external i will consider aftermarket .

I would wake an exception for Mahle, JE, IE and some other well known companies for internals, but even those are being counterfeited in China now so you have to be very careful with ANYTHING off ebay that is channeling Chinese product.

You want proof ? read the counterfeit spark plug thread, They come out of China stamped with manufacturers logo so manufacturers had to put a bulletin out warning people how to identify them. ( Just google fake spark Plugs )

These plugs were self destructing in the engine, not just misfiring and you can imagine what a chunk of spark plug does in your cylinder. , just to save a few bucks.

So have at it , but you are new to this platform Ivan and as you have learned quickly , this is a VERY problematic engine, even with all OE parts, do you really want to risk making things worse ? . You also know me from the other forums, i don't just spout what i read on the internet , I tear these engines down and see what is going on

whatever you choose good luck.

[G-Can]

Guys, let's get serious,that price is ridicolous from ECS.

There's half of the items in there that are not needed and just add to the cost for nothing.

[mtroxel]

Guys, let's get serious,that price is ridicolous from ECS.

Of course it is. Few people here would buy all that crap.

But $119 for "quality" parts is equally ridiculous. Ya just don't get something for nothing.

[Charles.waite]

Well of course it’s price is ridiculous.

They also sell a two cheaper tiers of timing chain kits. On ~$900 and one ~$300.

Also those are 110% confirmed knockoff parts with zero quality control at any point in the manufacturing process. You’re more than welcome to install then and roll the dice. The choice and risk is all yours. I will never do that because my time and the high possibility of ensuing failure is worth spending a couple hundred dollar more on legitimate parts with known, confirmed quality standards.

There is also a nontrivial part of me that doesn’t want to buy parts from, and thus support, people who make a living selling knockoff parts of unknown quality.

[G-Can]

Well of course it’s price is ridiculous.

They also sell a two cheaper tiers of timing chain kits. On ~$900 and one ~$300.

Of course it is. Few people here would buy all that crap.

But $119 for "quality" parts is equally ridiculous. Ya just don't get something for nothing.

With little research, a person can find which brands are proven good.

That $300kit is most likely that same Chinese for $119 :D

I'm still in awe they are asking over 4 grand for that. In all honesty, I think it might be at that point cheaper to go to Audi directly :D

[mtroxel]

I'm still in awe they are asking over 4 grand for that. In all honesty, I think it might be at that point cheaper to go to Audi directly :D

I would guess that most 3.2's that are old enough to have a timing chain problem, are not worth enough to reinvest $4K of parts + labor.

[Depthcharge]

Agreed. That pic from the last page of the V8 engine and then the $4k timing kit from ECS gives me heartburn. At least Audi's e-tron of the future won't have all of these timing chains.

[Theiceman]

Guys, let's get serious,that price is ridicolous from ECS.

There's half of the items in there that are not needed and just add to the cost for nothing.

yes everyone agrees , but a couple of things of Note.

Those are ALL OE parts. If you go to the dealer to go get those parts you will not be far off.

The electronic tensioners and cam phasers for that engine ( not ours as pointed out by Charles ) are incredibly expensive and that is what is driving up the cost. I looked at getting a s5 V8 until i looked up the cost of that kit . even built with OE parts from after market suppliers it was crazy expensive.
This is what i think Ivan should do . Take the time to research some online Audi OE suppliers and build his own kit. Chances are there will be some subtle difference in guides anyway and will have to be buy more stuff if he gets a generic kit.

[G-Can]

Recent discovery is that valve timing solenoids actually cause tensioners to fail because they start to not function properly and starving tensioners from proper oil pressure.

[Theiceman]

Recent discovery is that valve timing solenoids actually cause tensioners to fail because they start to not function properly and starving tensioners from proper oil pressure.

source ?

[G-Can]

Quattroworld ytb channel
Look it up. He's building RS6 AVANT and at 9ne episode gave a beatufull explanation what does what in an engine

And my own personal experience

[Theiceman]

Quattroworld ytb channel
Look it up. He's building RS6 AVANT and at 9ne episode gave a beatufull explanation what does what in an engine

And my own personal experience

i will thanks .. i am intimately familiar with this engine and i cant see why a VVT solenoid will cause tensioner starvation. ( unless it blows the spool valve wide open ) but i will go have a look for sure.

[dalmation53]

lmao chinisium...you WIN with that one. No i understand what you mean. and you are not wrong but also not right either. yes China also has Audi dealerships. Jusy because Audi in china doesnt mean their audis are fake haha. I have not received the part yet. if indeed it looks cheap with no logos i will send it back to them a get a refund. but sometimes you gotta roll the dice and see what you get. doesn't mean you gotta install it. yes china does copy a lot of things it's a fact but your iphone and samsung galaxy you are using is also chinese. most of the things are made in china now days. doesn't mean quality is bad. they just don't pay them shit to make things in production. this kit will be inspected by my friend who is running the exact same kit on his A4. he gave me the link and said it works just fine. could be wrong who knows. i'll see when i get it lol.

dude i really hope that was tongue in cheek " Audi of China ? " really ??

You can do whatever you want but there are two things to consider.

1. China is not known for Counterfeiting at all ( okay that was tongue in cheek) so its no surprise you would see a logo on a piece of stamped out chineesium )
2. They Probably stole the pic too s i would not be surprised if your hundred dollar kit had no markings when it showed up .

Really its up to you , you can put the cheapest possible parts in your engine, and hope for the best, and it might work out for you. But if you are wrong the downside is extreme. The way i look at it , any internals to the engine has to OE no question . anything external i will consider aftermarket .

I would wake an exception for Mahle, JE, IE and some other well known companies for internals, but even those are being counterfeited in China now so you have to be very careful with ANYTHING off ebay that is channeling Chinese product.

You want proof ? read the counterfeit spark plug thread, They come out of China stamped with manufacturers logo so manufacturers had to put a bulletin out warning people how to identify them. ( Just google fake spark Plugs )

These plugs were self destructing in the engine, not just misfiring and you can imagine what a chunk of spark plug does in your cylinder. , just to save a few bucks.

So have at it , but you are new to this platform Ivan and as you have learned quickly , this is a VERY problematic engine, even with all OE parts, do you really want to risk making things worse ? . You also know me from the other forums, i don't just spout what i read on the internet , I tear these engines down and see what is going on

whatever you choose good luck.

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[Theiceman]

lmao chinisium...you WIN with that one. No i understand what you mean. and you are not wrong but also not right either. yes China also has Audi dealerships. Jusy because Audi in china doesnt mean their audis are fake haha. I have not received the part yet. if indeed it looks cheap with no logos i will send it back to them a get a refund. but sometimes you gotta roll the dice and see what you get. doesn't mean you gotta install it. yes china does copy a lot of things it's a fact but your iphone and samsung galaxy you are using is also chinese. most of the things are made in china now days. doesn't mean quality is bad. they just don't pay them shit to make things in production. this kit will be inspected by my friend who is running the exact same kit on his A4. he gave me the link and said it works just fine. could be wrong who knows. i'll see when i get it lol.

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That makes good sense .. i know there is an Audi of China .. they get there parts sent from Germany by the way through their controlled logistics ordering system. They are an ISO company and must follow strict policies for Quality control ... I just dont think these parts came from Audi of China via germany , for 100 bucks. .

yes My Samsung and Iphone come from China , totally understood... factoriies under the stewardship of Apple and Samsung.

what i would be worried about would be the ones in the dumpster that failed QC sold on ebay with the apple and samsung labels ground off claimed to be the same...

Definitely inspect and let us know .

Good Luck.

BTW the guides for the 8.5 are different than for the 8 , look at the part numbers VERY carefully.

[Charles.waite]

Plenty of parts are made in China. The difference is when the parts aren’t being sold to a company with actual quality control standards, the manufacturing companies have zero incentive to ensure quality.

I have a good friend who manages factory standards for a US based company who manufactures in China. It’s a huge company in its industry. You wouldn’t believe the stories he’s told about their lack of quality control, and this is for product manufactured expressly to be sold to that company. Imagine what would they do without any oversight...

[dalmation53]

WTH. the guides are different? damn looks like it might need to be returned that part i didn't know. i think i gave you the part numbers in the above picture.

That makes good sense .. i know there is an Audi of China .. they get there parts sent from Germany by the way through their controlled logistics ordering system. They are an ISO company and must follow strict policies for Quality control ... I just dont think these parts came from Audi of China via germany , for 100 bucks. .

yes My Samsung and Iphone come from China , totally understood... factoriies under the stewardship of Apple and Samsung.

what i would be worried about would be the ones in the dumpster that failed QC sold on ebay with the apple and samsung labels ground off claimed to be the same...

Definitely inspect and let us know .

Good Luck.

BTW the guides for the 8.5 are different than for the 8 , look at the part numbers VERY carefully.

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[Charles.waite]

Did you not bother to check a place like ECS and see there are multiple revisions based on VIN?

[Theiceman]

Did you not bother to check a place like ECS and see there are multiple revisions based on VIN?

yup you have to know your vin to get the exact kit. Chinese kits dont care. .. you have to check your parts against the list. i took all my parts off wrote down the numbers and ordered the parts.

the top guide for starters. on a B8.5 its completely different.


i

[dalmation53]

what else?

yup you have to know your vin to get the exact kit. Chinese kits dont care. .. you have to check your parts against the list. i took all my parts off wrote down the numbers and ordered the parts.

the top guide for starters. on a B8.5 its completely different.


i

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[dalmation53]

i did yes. but this kit is not for my A5 is for my fathers new to him b8.5 I had no idea they were different. in ecs just says fits B8. but doesn't in anu form or shape say b8.5 look it up you will see what i mean.

Did you not bother to check a place like ECS and see there are multiple revisions based on VIN?

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[Charles.waite]

They literally say “fits production date Xxx to XXX” on the product pages and descriptions on the main product list. I’m not sure what you’re seeing but maybe just slow down, and read some stuff before you click Buy it Now.

[Theiceman]

You can always use your kit you bought and then get the different guides you need seperately. Then use the leftover ones on your car.
But yes...... Sometimes you need to slow down to move faster. .....

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[dalmation53]

Lol when i showed my dad his timing chain was stretched to shit he was like buy the parts i need now haha. since i don't live with him he zelle me the money and i just thought it was all the same until the b9. like i said still learning this platform. i'll get better at it.

You can always use your kit you bought and then get the different guides you need seperately. Then use the leftover ones on your car.
But yes...... Sometimes you need to slow down to move faster. .....

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[dalmation53]

ok i just checked what you said about fits production date. that shit is quite confussing indeed.

They literally say “fits production date Xxx to XXX” on the product pages and descriptions on the main product list. I’m not sure what you’re seeing but maybe just slow down, and read some stuff before you click Buy it Now.

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[ColdComfort]

OK, I'll throw my data into the mix.

2015 A4 Q CAED 6MT, 80k miles (79.8 actually). I started the logging the car from cold key-on, took a 20 minute drive on the highway, and idled for a minute before key-off.

For warm idle, I'm at -1.52 degrees. That was with engine oil temp at 213F. That seems pretty good, unless that graph is for b8s only (no b8.5).

I also looked at requested vs real cam position, looks like the car is keeping up pretty well. I wish I knew how to log things like boost, torque, ignition timing, etc. Would be fun to see the results after some spirited highway driving.

[old guy]

That is a really low reading for 80k miles.

I suspect your engine came with the revised timing chain.


Very nice!!

[ColdComfort]

Hey, after needing to replace the clutch 3 months after purchase, I'll take a bit of good news!

With the revised timing setup, do I still need to be worried about that screen (cam bridge screen? i don't even know what those words mean put together) that can fall apart and get clogged in the engine?