THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[Gunnark100]

I tried. But then remembered I've seen this since I got this B8. I have a RossTech Hex+Can cable, VCDS 17.8 and my Measuring Blocks-08 button has always been grayed out. I assumed that was a B8 thing?

You have, so to say "not talking blocks"(not sure spec term for that)...you need to use Adv.Meas.Values and find correct channel/block there!

[wkhanna]

It may not be a usual stocked item at the dealer. Are they saying their distribution center is out also? In any case, I'm not sure every part revision number means an improvement or updated part. I would think even a supplier change on a key part would trigger a rev change. Comments?

in my engineering experience in the manufacturing industry, change of vendor would not necessitate a P# or Rev change if ordered to a current drawing.
any design change would normally trigger a P# or Rev change.

the fact that bloosqr was having difficulty finding a latest Rev chain may speak to the fact that so many are now being replaced?

the P# for the chain on my invoice is 06K-109-158-AD.

the service manager i dealt with said the the chain design was revised (likely due to it stretching over time) & the difference can clearly be seen in the photos above.
he also hinted at the likelihood of audi eventually beginning a program similar the oil-consumption fiasco.

- - - Updated - - -

You have, so to say "not talking blocks"(not sure spec term for that)...you need to use Adv.Meas.Values and find correct channel/block there!

thank you!

[mtroxel]

You have, so to say "not talking blocks"(not sure spec term for that)...you need to use Adv.Meas.Values and find correct channel/block there!

Too bad. So now I have to go to advanced and scroll though the list and check the box I want to monitor.

the service manager i dealt with ... also hinted at the likelihood of audi eventually beginning a program similar the oil-consumption fiasco.

Something's happened at Audi. I drove 2 B5's over 500,000 miles. Never had either of those 2.8 V6's open. I never even had the valve cover off my 99 A4. My B7 2.0 was bullet proof if you excuse Audi's cam follower brain fart. But suddenly they produce this awful 2.0 with several big problems, and at about the same time they do the 3.2 with the timing chains on the back of the motor because they're "lifetime" chains. The end of life seems too be 120,000 miles and then that motor has to pulled out just to change the "lifetime" chains.

[wkhanna]

i have had two of the 2.8 v6's, too.... both with over 200k...
amazingly rugged & reliable....

same with the two 2.3 20v 5cyl quattros i have had...

the 1.8t was an oil burner......

my last B7 with the 2.0t was OK....140k at trade-in with nothing more than plugs & coil packs replaced...


but now with two 2.0t fsi's in the stable..... i too, am pining for the good old days.....

[Keystoneclassic]

That's a new style tensioner extended about 7 of the 10 notches available. So yes, you made a good call! I've been collecting info on tensioner extension and chain stretch to help me keep an eye on mine with inspections through the tensioner port. I've seen pic's that show a new chain with 2 notches showing. Mine had 3 showing with about 75K km(47k M). Questions for you...1. were you getting any symptoms or unusual noise, 2. what's the mileage?, 3. Is the piece on the scupper that's damaged folded back but intact?

The damage to the cover is on the driver side, similar to others I've seen where the tensioner has been extended. This would seem to mean the chain on the opposite side to the tensioner is slackening and hitting the scupper. I would think that the chain on that side should always be snug with slack taken up on the moving tensioner guide? Any comments/ideas on this?
I don't like the idea that bits of metal from the cover/scupper could be chipped off when this contact occurs.

While the pistons were in the process of being replaced (last week), I requested to look at the motor while it was out....this is all before I found out about the chain and tensioner issues and pending lawsuit. I walked back with the service manager and he showed me the motor (see picture) and said that the chain was stretched to max spec and that the tensioner and guides needed to be replaced. I pose you this question, as you can see, the cover is still on...could they know that the tensioner and guides needed to be replaced without pulling off this cover? I ask because I requested to have the parts and labor costs to be covered by Audi, but they declined. So did they go into this job knowing of the timing chain issues and I got snubbed to pay for the replacement?

I also included a pic of the invoice with part numbers of the parts that were installed.

I’m also trying to determine if the design flaw of the timing chain/tensioner caused the damage that was done to the motor mounts, that I also had to replace during the stage 2 oil consumption piston replacement.


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[bhvrdr]

The probably told you the guides and tensioner need to be replaced because this is something they do as part of the job of replacing the old style tensioners. They know the guides are pretty crappy too so there is no way they are going to let them leave their shop just replacing the one tensioner. I wouldnt do it any other way.

Mike

[mtroxel]

I pose you this question, as you can see, the cover is still on...could they know that the tensioner and guides needed to be replaced without pulling off this cover?

Yes, pretty much. I see the inspection hole is open on the metal cover. From that, they can see how far the tensioner is extended. If it is fully extended, its because the chain is stretched. As for the guides, you can see the top end of the two long ones sticking out with that top cover off. Besides, why would you swap the chain and tensioner and not do the guides while you're in there?

[wkhanna]

call AoA & request to open a claim....
this will automatically get the AoA regional rep involved with the dealer.....

my experience has revealed that the dealers have many options on exactly how they handle these issues.......
until you get AoA involved, you are at the mercy of the dealer.....

[mangol4life]

Is the timing chain about to be updated again? Apparently all our local dealers no longer have it in stock. We ended up finding one of the latest ones from someone else (as it would be useful to have a working car) but it would be a bit annoying to replace this only to have a revision show up a few weeks later.

My car is sitting at the shop right now because Audi said the tensioner is on back order. That was as of Monday this week.


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[jfo]

I also included a pic of the invoice with part numbers of the parts that were installed.

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Those prices are about 25% higher than the list prices shown on Sunset Audi's site(AudioUSAparts.com) They are in Oregon. I would ask why such a difference? And perhaps find another dealer. To rub salt in your wound, they currently have these parts on sale at $99 for the chain and $55 for the tensioner. All their parts are on sale and shipping is free.

https://www.audiusaparts.com/oem-par...AxMDMwNCZyPTE2

[old guy]

Can Anyone confirm the part number for the timing cover inspection plug? Once I get these damn arm braces off I plan to pop mine out and inspect my tensioner to see if I have the latest "K" version. I would prefer to have a spare plug available just in case I tear the current one while prying it out.

There seems to be a conflict between Europaparts and ECS Tuning over the same part number. Europaparts says yes but if I key in the "'Does it fit my vehicle ?" information into ECS Tuning it says "Does NOT fit". I suspect Europaparts is correct.

My 2013 A5 has a November 2012 build date and reading through this thread I can't tell for sure when the new tensioner was applied. There are several different start dates quoted. I have 40K miles on the A5 so I figured it's time to take a look. Once I determine which tensioner I have will determine my next course of action. I will be sure to post whatever I find in this thread.

TIA

[wkhanna]

hey, OG!
cannot help with p# but..... hope your healing quickly & on the mend to full recovery!!!!

[Keystoneclassic]

Those prices are about 25% higher than the list prices shown on Sunset Audi's site(AudioUSAparts.com) They are in Oregon. I would ask why such a difference? And perhaps find another dealer. To rub salt in your wound, they currently have these parts on sale at $99 for the chain and $55 for the tensioner. All their parts are on sale and shipping is free.

https://www.audiusaparts.com/oem-par...AxMDMwNCZyPTE2

I actually printed out a list of every part from the Audiusaparts.com web site and went over it with the service manager. He took it to his parts manager and he said it’s not an Audi authorized parts supplier. This dealership is the worst. The day I picked up my car the windshield wipers wouldn’t work. They worked fine even up to the day I took it there. And they had no remorse once so ever. I filed a claim with the auto BBB. Hoping to hear back early next week.


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[old guy]

hey, OG!
cannot help with p# but..... hope your healing quickly & on the mend to full recovery!!!!

Thanks Bill! I got the casts off earlier this week and now I have to wear these braces for another 6 weeks.

At least it looks like no surgery will be required. I drove the A5 today for the first time in over a month. It felt good!

[bloosqr]

Hmm so I just got my car back and I noticed my chain has a different part number.. everything else is the same. What is weird is this part number doesn't even show up as a previous gen as far as I can tell.

[jfo]

I actually printed out a list of every part from the Audiusaparts.com web site and went over it with the service manager. He took it to his parts manager and he said it’s not an Audi authorized parts supplier. This dealership is the worst. The day I picked up my car the windshield wipers wouldn’t work. They worked fine even up to the day I took it there. And they had no remorse once so ever. I filed a claim with the auto BBB. Hoping to hear back early next week.


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They are an Audi and Porsche dealer, but not an authorized parts supplier?? I don't think you have much chance of support on the wear and tear parts costs, bit I would definitely not give that dealer my business. I'd call other dealer parts dept and ask for some sample prices. Maybe the local SF area dealers have agreed to boost their prices.
FWIW, Audi Canada is even worse with parts prices. My dealer however is very good and will support me where they can...even though I bought my car from another dealer.

[jfo]

Hmm so I just got my car back and I noticed my chain has a different part number.. everything else is the same. What is weird is this part number doesn't even show up as a previous gen as far as I can tell.

Maybe a typo? That number comes up as a Timing Changer for VW? Don't know what a Timing Changer is! Perhaps it should have been AD.

I see you had the trans fluid and filter done. Did the dealer try to tell you it wasn't necessary?

[bloosqr]

Maybe a typo? That number comes up as a Timing Changer for VW? Don't know what a Timing Changer is! Perhaps it should have been AD.

I see you had the trans fluid and filter done. Did the dealer try to tell you it wasn't necessary?

I think you are right it must have been right letter shifted somehow AD->BE. I did have the fluid / transmission done - really because I was following the other thread and figured I may as well do both of these at once under the premise I can keep this car going for a while.

So when I did my stage 2 the dealer who did the stage two leaked out transmission fluid unbeknownst to me and when I kept asking them about the TF (as my now jerky transmission felt like a TF issue) told me under no uncertain terms if I try and redo the transmission fluid I will ruin the transmission forever. I luckily switched dealers and my new dealer topped up the TF 2 years ago. What I've noticed w/ the dealers is there is a bit of "pay grade" issue w/ the service desks, even at the new place. The younger guys will regurgitate whatever the official stance is "tensioner is lifetime / TF is lifetime", my trick is basically to figure out who really to talk to. Some of the older guys will have a proper conversation with you about this. That said I did this at a non-dealer audi specialist recommended to me by friends w/ better grade audi's. The tensioner ended up costing me about the same as the dealer (~1600) but the difference is this guy replaced every part related to it built into that cost. W/ the TF the major cost was the fluid, labor was like an hour labor which was in the noise.

Incidentally we do keep going out and looking at new cars (we just had a child). The truth is, this car is still pretty fun to drive / etc (and not much different from a new audi) even w/ these sorts of expenses its far cheaper than a car payment so for now I think i'm better off just doing paranoid pro-active prevention, but weaning myself off dealer prices for expensive things.

As another aside this forum has been a godsend!

Avi

[mtroxel]

So when I did my stage 2 the dealer who did the stage two ... told me under no uncertain terms if I try and redo the transmission fluid I will ruin the transmission forever.

I keep hearing this. Until someone can tell me exactly what is damaging about fresh ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid, I'm writing this off as "virgin-to-the-sun-god" kind of mythology. Ask your stage 2 dealer why ZF would put this on their web site?

https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us/...hange_oil.html

[bloosqr]

It is clearly nonsense. The research you guys did on the TF thread convinced me of that. My new dealer is okay w/ redoing the TF fluid. That said I did it 3rd party w/ the same folks who did the tensioner. (btw you were right my screen was completely gone).

I keep hearing this. Until someone can tell me exactly what is damaging about fresh ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid, I'm writing this off as "virgin-to-the-sun-god" kind of mythology. As your stage 2 dealer why ZF would put this on their web site?

https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us/...hange_oil.html

[JNyz]

This one has been in use for several years and still appears to be current.

06K-109-467-K

I picked one up today but the number on it is
06K-109-467 - China
I've been reading this thread and don't remember this part being manufactured in China. There is no K on the end.

[ELaw]

I'd say 99% likely what you got is not an OEM (or OE manufacturer) part. Where did you get it?

[JNyz]

I'd say 99% likely what you got is not an OEM (or OE manufacturer) part. Where did you get it?

ECS Tuning. It has the a VW stamp. I'm trying to post a pic but having trouble.

[ELaw]

Hmm... ECS sells OE and aftermarket stuff so it could be either. And I suppose it's possible the OE one is made in China but I didn't think it was.

[Gunnark100]

ECS Tuning. It has the a VW stamp. I'm trying to post a pic but having trouble.

Return and ask oem stuff, play safe!

https://g-search2.alicdn.com/img/bao...pg_210x210.jpg

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11724452

[Spawne32]

I keep hearing this. Until someone can tell me exactly what is damaging about fresh ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid, I'm writing this off as "virgin-to-the-sun-god" kind of mythology. As your stage 2 dealer why ZF would put this on their web site?

https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us/...hange_oil.html

This trans service paranoia is depressing, its not even just audi's that I see it on, its alot of other cars. This "lifetime service" label and then the dealerships or shops scaring customers into thinking the fluid never gets serviced so they can hit them with a trans replacement down the road is a total scam. ZF transmissions are used in dozens of cars, not just audi's either, even BMW has a service spec for the same exact transmission. Did a service on a toyota corolla just yesterday where the woman was told by the dealer it was taken care of, 125k, never had a single service done. Filter was clogged almost shut, had a few pieces of metal from god knows where, and the fluid was black. 3.2 quarts of new Aisin fluid and it was back to shifting like new again, but its probably not long for this earth now thanks to all the premature wear from never being serviced.

[bhvrdr]

This trans service paranoia is depressing, its not even just audi's that I see it on, its alot of other cars. This "lifetime service" label and then the dealerships or shops scaring customers into thinking the fluid never gets serviced so they can hit them with a trans replacement down the road is a total scam. ZF transmissions are used in dozens of cars, not just audi's either, even BMW has a service spec for the same exact transmission. Did a service on a toyota corolla just yesterday where the woman was told by the dealer it was taken care of, 125k, never had a single service done. Filter was clogged almost shut, had a few pieces of metal from god knows where, and the fluid was black. 3.2 quarts of new Aisin fluid and it was back to shifting like new again, but its probably not long for this earth now thanks to all the premature wear from never being serviced.

....which of course will be blamed on the transmission fluid change you did ;)

Mike

[JNyz]

Return and ask oem stuff, play safe!

https://g-search2.alicdn.com/img/bao...pg_210x210.jpg

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11724452

I'm thinking it must be OEM since it has the factory stamp.

[Gunnark100]

I'm thinking it must be OEM since it has the factory stamp.

most of them have stamp...in that case why pay ecs 3-4 times extra:)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAST...StoreLevelAB=2

Was packing similar to oem?
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ULLwI...eti-timing.jpg

[JNyz]

most of them have stamp...in that case why pay ecs 3-4 times extra:)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FAST...StoreLevelAB=2

Was packing similar to oem?
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ULLwI...eti-timing.jpg

The one I received is the same as the one in the top link.
The box was a VW box.

[ELaw]

It looks like something funny is going on there... I'd contact ECS and ask them what's up. Everything I'm seeing here and elsewhere on the 'net indicates that "real" OE tensioners aren't made in China.

[mtroxel]

It looks like something funny is going on there...

Ditto

[JNyz]

It looks like something funny is going on there... I'd contact ECS and ask them what's up. Everything I'm seeing here and elsewhere on the 'net indicates that "real" OE tensioners aren't made in China.

Picked up an OEM from the dealer today, 66 bucks, made in Italy.
These are the pics of a tensioner with 60,000 miles with a build date of 4/11

[IMG][/IMG]

[mtroxel]

That's the early crappy one. That band can slip/break, the plunger goes back in its shell like a scared turtle, then the chain starts flying around and if you're lucky, all you need is a head job.

[audi bug]

I think you are right it must have been right letter shifted somehow AD->BE. I did have the fluid / transmission done - really because I was following the other thread and figured I may as well do both of these at once under the premise I can keep this car going for a while.

So when I did my stage 2 the dealer who did the stage two leaked out transmission fluid unbeknownst to me and when I kept asking them about the TF (as my now jerky transmission felt like a TF issue) told me under no uncertain terms if I try and redo the transmission fluid I will ruin the transmission forever. I luckily switched dealers and my new dealer topped up the TF 2 years ago. What I've noticed w/ the dealers is there is a bit of "pay grade" issue w/ the service desks, even at the new place. The younger guys will regurgitate whatever the official stance is "tensioner is lifetime / TF is lifetime", my trick is basically to figure out who really to talk to. Some of the older guys will have a proper conversation with you about this. That said I did this at a non-dealer audi specialist recommended to me by friends w/ better grade audi's. The tensioner ended up costing me about the same as the dealer (~1600) but the difference is this guy replaced every part related to it built into that cost. W/ the TF the major cost was the fluid, labor was like an hour labor which was in the noise.

Incidentally we do keep going out and looking at new cars (we just had a child). The truth is, this car is still pretty fun to drive / etc (and not much different from a new audi) even w/ these sorts of expenses its far cheaper than a car payment so for now I think i'm better off just doing paranoid pro-active prevention, but weaning myself off dealer prices for expensive things.

As another aside this forum has been a godsend!

Avi

06K109158BE is not a typo.
I was talking to a dealer part counter manager today for my 2013 A4 about the timing chain.
He said my car came with -A level and the latest chain was -AD level on the Audi ETKA.
But he said -BE level would come out in Jan 2018 once -AD level was used up.
You got lucky to have the latest level timing chain somehow.

When can Audi build a durable engine?
Stupid timing chain and tensioner had been used for long long time. Why messing around them?
Can not even make a simple oil strainer straight.

[bloosqr]

06K109158BE is not a typo.
I was talking to a dealer part counter manager today for my 2013 A4 about the timing chain.
He said my car came with -A level and the latest chain was -AD level on the Audi ETKA.
But he said -BE level would come out in Jan 2018 once -AD level was used up.
You got lucky to have the latest level timing chain somehow.

When can Audi build a durable engine?
Stupid timing chain and tensioner had been used for long long time. Why messing around them?
Can not even make a simple oil strainer straight.

That is really interesting. So I did not do this at a dealer but at a local place who had a good reputation for audi's. I had priced the tensioner / chain with my dealer and our local place agreed more or less to the same price but in addition we would agree on getting all the tangent pieces replaced (following this thread + anything else) + all the pieces had to be the latest revision. So a few days in I got a call pack saying "I am having a hard time locating the chain, this is going to take me a few days. None of the local dealers have it, I am not sure what is going on". He ended up knowing someone who had a hold of it and getting it shipped from out of state.

I am positive if I had done this at the dealer they would have ran out the -AD revision. In a way it was luck. That said the person I used wasn't convinced it really would be lifetime either. The discussion was if your car's around in another 100k (aka 200K) just redo it, which is fair enough and certainly easier than the headache of worrying about this.

[cdmx]

The humble mechanic saved me once!! I lost a spring out of the camshaft and I was able to get just the spring and bearing from him.
I bought my car with a tensioner failure, fixed it up and I love this car now.
I have been telling other audi owners to get theirs replaced before 100k


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[dennej1985]

How many different tensioner generations are there? I just had Berg in Denver do my tensioners and rails. My car is a 2012. The tech showed me the bits they took out and I had a non-revision tensioner. Car has 83,000 miles but the tensioner showed zero slippage or wear and they measured 0% stretch on the chain. My cam bridge screen had popped off though. It was right in the oil channel in the bridge and the bearing was still there too so that was a good issue to catch before it became worse.


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[audrobotic]

My cam bridge screen had popped off though. It was right in the oil channel in the bridge and the bearing was still there too so that was a good issue to catch before it became worse.

Were there any improvements to the cam bridge screen part/design in later years? (B8.5?)

[dennej1985]

Were there any improvements to the cam bridge screen part/design in later years? (B8.5?)

There was an Audi RVU for the part so an updated version is available. Not sure if it applies to both B8 and B 8.5 though, or if the updated B8 part is just the equivalent from the B 8.5


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