THE Timing Chain Tensioner Failure Thread

[greasykid]

Is timing chain tensioner a problem for an early production 2014 A4 Quattro 2.0? CPO car. Original warranty in effect til Feb 1 2018, then CPO warranty for 2 more yrs. Have 34,000 mi now. Runs great.

[Spawne32]

I think this was discussed in another thread but has anyone been able to use VCDS to check for how much the car is correcting for timing chain stretch? Was wondering what measuring blocks everyone was using.

[B8_Dude97]

I think this was discussed in another thread but has anyone been able to use VCDS to check for how much the car is correcting for timing chain stretch? Was wondering what measuring blocks everyone was using.

Seems the block doesn’t exist or we aren’t able to see it or it’s hidden beyond what values we can see from what the members report.


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[Spawne32]

Check this one.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-and-front-end

Seems the block doesn’t exist or we aren’t able to see it or it’s hidden beyond what values we can see from what the members report.


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only thing i was able to find in my obdeleven scan tool is this which seems to describe an adaption for timing

[jfo]

Seems the block doesn’t exist or we aren’t able to see it or it’s hidden beyond what values we can see from what the members report.


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I'm inclined to think it doesn't exist. A useful VCDS method of doing this would likely have surfaced by now. And unless it was a rock solid method, I would prefer to take a look at the actual tensioner extension once or twice a year...kinda like a dipstick vs relying on a sensor.

[A4x]

Is timing chain tensioner a problem for an early production 2014 A4 Quattro 2.0? CPO car. Original warranty in effect til Feb 1 2018, then CPO warranty for 2 more yrs. Have 34,000 mi now. Runs great.

2014 should be exempt from this problem. But you never know. I wouldn't worry about it until your last year of CPO coverage. I paid to get mine changed 6 months after my CPO ended, at 75000 miles. My 2011 tensioner still had 25% "life" remaining. But who knows when it was just going to snap.

[B8_Dude97]

only thing i was able to find in my obdeleven scan tool is this which seems to describe an adaption for timing

The only thing that comes close to the numbers is expect would be that phase angle.

Audi suggests anything within -8 +8 is in specbut I’m not sure if that’s he right number to go off of

If that were the case I’d say you have some moderate chain stretch but again I don’t think that’s it

[B8_Dude97]

I'm inclined to think it doesn't exist. A useful VCDS method of doing this would likely have surfaced by now. And unless it was a rock solid method, I would prefer to take a look at the actual tensioner extension once or twice a year...kinda like a dipstick vs relying on a sensor.

I’m inclined to think hat too now


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[Spawne32]

Check this one.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-and-front-end

The only thing that comes close to the numbers is expect would be that phase angle.

Audi suggests anything within -8 +8 is in specbut I’m not sure if that’s he right number to go off of

If that were the case I’d say you have some moderate chain stretch but again I don’t think that’s it

Well were gonna find out real soon, I got all the parts on order for the timing chain job, i may try to do it at my neighbors garage since its going to be freezing for the next month. I hate working in the cold but with how fast these cars are dropping, I am in total fear now of whats going to happen.

[jfo]

Well were gonna find out real soon, I got all the parts on order for the timing chain job, i may try to do it at my neighbors garage since its going to be freezing for the next month. I hate working in the cold but with how fast these cars are dropping, I am in total fear now of whats going to happen.

Do you have the new style tensioner and how far is the tensioner extended?

[Spawne32]

Check this one.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-and-front-end

Do you have the new style tensioner and how far is the tensioner extended?

Don't even know, and i didnt want to wait to find out, so I just ordered the new style anyway. My engine was rebuilt for the oil consumption in 2014, for the previous owner, its unlikely they did any of this at that time.

[Novarider]

You should have inspected it first. What if you tear into it and find they were updated?

[jfo]

You should have inspected it first. What if you tear into it and find they were updated?

It's worth the 30 min it would take to check. My stage 2 was done in Jan 2015 and the tensioner was replaced. The dealer was well aware of the tensioner issue had been updating them for awhile...so, it's possible yours was done.

[wkhanna]

there are issues with the chain, too.....

[Novarider]

Yes stretching, if you pop the cover and discover the updated tensioner with no to little slack your good.

[Spawne32]

I'll take a look but its likely i'll replace everything anyway, i dont even want to take chances with the guides at this point.

[spin0rz]

Is timing chain tensioner a problem for an early production 2014 A4 Quattro 2.0? CPO car. Original warranty in effect til Feb 1 2018, then CPO warranty for 2 more yrs. Have 34,000 mi now. Runs great.

I've seen a 2014 with chain tensioners issues and skipping multiples teeths. So I guess nope. Nope nope.


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[mtroxel]

I think this was discussed in another thread but has anyone been able to use VCDS to check for how much the car is correcting for timing chain stretch? Was wondering what measuring blocks everyone was using.

Finally took a look at this. Just did the timing chain on my 2011 in November, so it should be pretty flipp'n perfect. Here's what my VCDS shows. Looks like guys with OBDeleven see the same blocks. So if the chain is stretched, would there be a difference between the first two values, specified and actual cam adaptation? And then there would also be an adjustment in the 3rd value to soak up the extra chain between the crankshaft and intake cam?

EDIT: The original screen shot I posted was VCDS with the motor turned off. Dumb. With it turned on, the second value here moves around a little bit, but the specified adjustment is still 28..00, and the phase reading is still 0.00 with my new timing chain.

[Spawne32]

Right, I can't show it in a snap shot but the specified stays solid at 28 and the actual will fluctuate between 27-28.5 degrees, which I guess is the cam phaser adjusting. The last value you have listed there is the one that I am showing an adaptation of -5.47 degrees. What that equates to in actual stretch or number of teeth off I don't know. Seem's to be indicating its retarding timing.

[mtroxel]

What that equates to in actual stretch or number of teeth off I don't know.

It shouldn't bee too hard to convert that number to links/teeth.

(360° ÷ total chain links) X 5.47 = adjustment for chain stretch in links on your numbers

But, I’m not sure what that gets you. Because the ECU will adjust for what it sees until the tensioner runs out of room to grow. I think that’s what you need to know. How far is the phase adjustment when the tensioner is crying for help? I saw B8_Dude97 reference an 8 number. Is that 8 teeth showing on the tensioner or 8° of phase adaptation?

I don’t know the answer, but if we’re right about all this and your numbers mean your ECU is adjusting for over 5° of error in your system, that would alarm me. If that number is truly representative of chain stretch, its good you’re hoping on this.

[B8_Dude97]

It shouldn't bee too hard to convert that number to links/teeth.

(360° ÷ total chain links) X 5.47 = adjustment for chain stretch in links on your numbers

But, I’m not sure what that gets you. Because the ECU will adjust for what it sees until the tensioner runs out of room to grow. I think that’s what you need to know. How far is the phase adjustment when the tensioner is crying for help? I saw B8_Dude97 reference an 8 number. Is that 8 teeth showing on the tensioner or 8° of phase adaptation?

I don’t know the answer, but if we’re right about all this and your numbers mean your ECU is adjusting for over 5° of error in your system, that would alarm me. If that number is truly representative of chain stretch, its good you’re hoping on this.

All my info comes from the gti forums but the 8 number I believe I pulled from someone referencing what Audi/vw considers to be in “spec”

I have no actual idea what that represents.

I have seen someone in mk5 forums post numbers with. 7-8 degrees and they said they’re tensioner was extended out but who knows.

The test will be if once the user above replaces tensioner and chain if the number resets to 0


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[B8_Dude97]

Finally took a look at this. Just did the timing chain on my 2011 in November, so it should be pretty flipp'n perfect. Here's what my VCDS shows. Looks like guys with OBDeleven see the same blocks. So if the chain is stretched, would there be a difference between the first two values, specified and actual cam adaptation? And then there would also be an adjustment in the 3rd value to soak up the extra chain between the crankshaft and intake cam?

Right, I can't show it in a snap shot but the specified stays solid at 28 and the actual will fluctuate between 27-28.5 degrees, which I guess is the cam phaser adjusting. The last value you have listed there is the one that I am showing an adaptation of -5.47 degrees. What that equates to in actual stretch or number of teeth off I don't know. Seem's to be indicating its retarding timing.

Copy paste from a discussion on the ea888 from vwvortex...
again I’m just bring this to attention in case it will help anyone if it’s actually usefull

gkamenov
Jun 29, 2016 · #5
I've changed both chains, both tensioners and all plastics (silencers?) around the chains a week ago. The old tensioner was extended to 7 teeth and block 093 was at -5.2. With new chain it now shows 0.2 and the engine sounds better.

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[mtroxel]

The test will be if once the user above replaces tensioner and chain if the number resets to 0.

Yea I agree. If he posts something very near 0, then I think we're on to something.

[old guy]

An interesting read from VWVortex: Clicky click®

[Novarider]

Where are these measuring blocks? I'm new to VAG

[jfo]

My tensioner is almost at 3 ribs. It appears a new chain can be about 2. I'll check the VCDS readings and report back. Maybe we can gather some data points that may help make a correlation.

[mtroxel]

Where are these measuring blocks? I'm new to VAG

Sorry, on previous Audi's you went into Measuring Blocks. Now you go into 01 Engine, then the Advance Measuring Values. You'll see what's in my screen shot. Everything you check in the right side, the values will show on the left side.

[Gunnark100]

Nobody will replace chain etc just because of this value anyway, ignoring mileage and inspection hole result.

[Spawne32]

Check this one.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-and-front-end

Nobody will replace chain etc just because of this value anyway, ignoring mileage and inspection hole result.

Even if the inspection hole revealed a tensioner within spec, id still replace it anyway and update the chain to the newest revision because this is total bullshit with how many of these cars are dropping dead on a daily basis.

[palmface]

FWIW, I replaced both the timing chain and the tensioner last weekend. And just to be sure, I confirmed the timing using VAS6079 to find the actual TDC and everything checked out within the factory specs. The VCDS now shows an adaptation of 0.57 degree.

[jfo]

My tensioner is almost at 3 ribs. It appears a new chain can be about 2. I'll check the VCDS readings and report back. Maybe we can gather some data points that may help make a correlation.

FWIW... With a warm engine after a drive, mine is 28*, 28* and 0* phase adaptation. This is a 7 year old chain with about 85K km-53K miles.

[mtroxel]

FWIW... With a warm engine after a drive, mine is 28*, 28* and 0* phase adaptation.

Is that with the motor running? Mine is always 28/28/0 with just the power turned on but motor not running.

[jfo]

Is that with the motor running? Mine is always 28/28/0 with just the power turned on but motor not running.

No, I realized that after another member asked and will check again tomorrow.

[jfo]

FWIW... With a warm engine after a drive, mine is 28*, 28* and 0* phase adaptation. This is a 7 year old chain with about 85K km-53K miles.

The above is with engine off, so incorrect.
I remeasured with engine at idle and the phase adaption was 0.75 . After stopping and restarting it was 0.64, so it appears it can fluctuate somewhat.

[unmarkedA4]

Mines at -1.87 then 2.0 after a 30 min drive in 38 degree weather.

You think my timing tensioner is on it’s way?

Could oil pressure affect the timing chain?

A failing pump not providing adequate pressure for the tensioner.



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[jfo]

Mines at -1.87 then 2.0 after a 30 min drive in 38 degree weather.

You think my timing tensioner is on it’s way?

Could oil pressure affect the timing chain?

A failing pump not providing adequate pressure for the tensioner.



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I don't think there is any clear correlation yet to this measurement and chain stretch, so best to not draw any conclusions. If you haven't yet, take a look at the tensioner extension through the inspection and count the ribs showing.
The tensioner is indeed driven by oil pressure, and it's possible that over time a weak pump could impact the tension. Keep in mind that once the tensioner has extended, it is held in place by the retainer and should not slide back when pressure is removed. So as the chain stretches low pressure could perhaps reduce the tensioner travel and tension on the chain. All speculation though.

[mtroxel]

I don't think there is any clear correlation yet to this measurement and chain stretch, so best to not draw any conclusions.

I agree. We're still trying to sort out what's meaningful. I wouldn't panic too much unmarkedA4. Spawne32 is showing a 5.47 adaptation back a few posts, and is doing his soon. Others have said they had heard that 8 is the number where you get nervous...but this thread isn't sure yet.

[unmarkedA4]

I do get a cam position sensor fault. P0341 cam position sensor implausible signal. Only happens when car is warm at low rpm while cruising.

So weird. Tech at the dealership who replaced my engine checked timing and said was good. Didn’t ask how he checked.





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[NewDirection]

Hello everyone,

Having just bought a 2011 A4 (in Canada), I have been reading this thread with intense interest. I hope I can ask a couple of questions that don't seem to have been addressed so far.

The thing is, mine has 41,500 kilometres (~26k miles) on it. Is it too early to worry about replacing the tensioner and chain at this point?

Also, I'm getting Stage I oil consumption fix done this Wednesday. The dealer pulled up my VIN and said it's a recall, so they're replacing the PCV without a consumption test.

Thank you,
NewD

[mtroxel]

The thing is, mine has 41,500 kilometres (~26k miles) on it. Is it too early to worry about replacing the tensioner and chain at this point?

Also, I'm getting Stage I oil consumption fix done this Wednesday. The dealer pulled up my VIN and said it's a recall, so they're replacing the PCV without a consumption test.

If you have a 2011, you probably have an older revision tensioner....and those can blow at any mileage.

But, if the dealer is doing a Phase 1, chances are you are headed to a stage 2. In that case, the dealer will be pulling your timing chain off to pull the head. At that point, it's about 10 minutes extra labor...at most...to have them do a new tensioner at that time. I might even have them do a newer revision of the chain at that point too.