Eurodyne Maestro compatibility

[Dmnted]

I have been looking for tuning options for my 2003 B6 1.8T Quattro.

I was about to pull the trigger on the Eurodyne Maestro suite and thought I would check if it was compatible with my Australian delivered BFB small port engine with ECU# 8E0 909 518 AC.

I wrote to Eurodyne with the question and receive a response “sorry, haven’t checked that ECU”
I then asked if I purchased the tuning suite, would they be willing to refund me or get it working if there was any issues however I didn’t get a response.

I then came up with the idea of emailing them a copy of my ECU Bin to see if it would work with their cable / software so I could go ahead and make the purchase.
I wrote to them again and asked them to let me know if the idea was a waste of time and again didn’t get a response.

I have read that Chris from Eurodyne is extremely busy and may not have had time to reply so to avoid any delays, I got a cheap ebay cable and read my ECU using nefmoto, then sent the Bin file to Eurodyne support to again see if I could use their product.

It has been 5 days and I am still haven’t receive a response.
I have also tried to contact them via phone and always get a message service.
mind you I have tried at about 4:30pm due to the time difference.

Anyway, I have read that my BFB engine is mechanically identical to the AMB including sensors.
I know this does not mean the ECU will have the same maps in the same locations but it give me hope that Eurodyne will work.

The currency conversion to USD means I will be paying close to $1300 to have Eurodyne landed in Australia which is a lot of money considering it may not work.

Does anyone have any idea if it will work?
Can I purchase another ECU that has had the immobiliser defeated, that will work with both Eurodyne and my car?
Any other solution other than to tear my hair out and spend countless hours / years trying to identify maps using winols or tunerpro and creating a definition file?

Cheers for any input!

[Matt Devo]

that kind of pre-sales service says to me that they don't want/care about your business. Why not look into Motoza, or any of the folks on nefmoto that do tuning?

[Dmnted]

Thanks for the input guys.
I was thinking the same due to their lack of response.

I am actually after a package which gives me to make changes as I go like eurodyne or nefmoto / tunerpro.
I have access to my friends workshops Dyno and a well known local tuner who has used eurodyne before.

I have things like a S4 MAF, different MAP sensor, IE intake manifold and adjustable cam gear, APR exhaust manifold…. and I want to make changes as I buy more parts.

With my ECU# not having a definition file, whilst nefmoto and tunerpro / winols is an option, I think it will take a long time to identify maps as well as define axis as well as being super confusing.

[diagnosticator]

Since the BFB is functionally and physically identical to the AMB, an AMB ECU should work also. That would be an ECU PN 8E0 909 518 AF, AK or BC.

[Seerlah]

People from Australia use the Eurodyne Suite. One I know in particular because he told me what to adjust on mine for my flucuating idle is AZ member rockersteady (sp?). Also tunes many people's cars with Maestro.

With that being said, if you know how to tune then why not save coin and use nefmoto? I use Maestro because I don't know how to tune. Haha

[Dmnted]

Thanks Diagnosticator,

In that case I could order Maestro and try it on my ECU and if it fails, I can get hold of an AMB ECU which are readily available, defeat the immobiliser and off I go.

If all that fails, sell Eurodyne cheaply and cut my losses.

Thanks for the tip Seerlah, I had a look at Rockersteady’s profile and it looks like he is in a B5.
I know the basics of tuning myself but will have a local well know tuner I know do my tunes.

I would go down the Nefmoto route but with my ECU not defined, trying to even work out where the fueling and timing maps are in my bin file does my head in.

[Seerlah]

Contact a couple people from Australia and talk to them. There are a few out there on this forum board that use maestro. Even if a b5, they should hopefully know your position and can grant advice. Try: Jaychen, gmx, and spindoctor (ones who I consider friends on here).

[Dmnted]

Thanks Seerlah, I will do although I ended up pulling the trigger and ordered Eurodyne from USP Motorsports last night.
Fingers crossed it all works out ok.
I will update you all with the outcome for any fellow BFB engine owners.

[B6A4GT3076R]

Thanks Seerlah, I will do although I ended up pulling the trigger and ordered Eurodyne from USP Motorsports last night.
Fingers crossed it all works out ok.
I will update you all with the outcome for any fellow BFB engine owners.

What are the planned mods to the motor? Are you building (forged internals etc), or just mainly bolt-ons?

You should have (could have?) looked a little deeper for an ECU solution locally (to the Australian market anyway)....

Mike.

[Dmnted]

Hey Mike, I did perform a whole heap of searches for and software in OZ that gave me access to the standard ME7.5 and came up with zero results.
Please don't tell me I missed something?
I see in your profile you are running a vi-pec plug in which I considered... how do you find it?

I will be doing forged internals and also have been grabbing bolt on parts whenever I can find a good deal...and the wife lets me.
Hoping for 350-400 awhp when finished.

[B6A4GT3076R]

Hey Mike, I did perform a whole heap of searches for and software in OZ that gave me access to the standard ME7.5 and came up with zero results.
Please don't tell me I missed something?
I see in your profile you are running a vi-pec plug in which I considered... how do you find it?

I will be doing forged internals and also have been grabbing bolt on parts whenever I can find a good deal...and the wife lets me.
Hoping for 350-400 awhp when finished.

I have a solution for the 06A fitted to the B6 shape A4. Includes a Link G4+ Extreme ECU, Thermostat and associated diagrams to get it all up and running without too much of a hassle... Not overly cheap, but allows for infinite expansion.

Look me up on fb: Michael Tsakmakis

I will go on to add that Maestro should work for you - although I'm not entirely convinced that your cluster/immo will allow any playtime until you can sort out an immo defeat.

The Vi-Pec & Link ECU's are on the higher-end scale of a build and many will argue that you will be able to see 350-400 awhp with the OEM ECU. I tend to agree, but have my own opinions regarding scaling and how powerful a standalone really is in this instance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4EKpDmzqhw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbez5IiCSGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvgK1YaKPxg

FYI mine was making the same power you are looking for. Next phase (currently back in service position) will be full forged bottom end (crank, pistons, rods, girdle, etc...

Mike.

[Dmnted]

Well my cable arrived.
I read the ECU and sent it off to Eurodyne and got asked why I purchased it considering the ecu hadn't been tested.
As the AMB is identical, I was givent the option to try a base file.

I flashed the AMB 03-05 Stage 1 base file without any issues.
Car started first time and idle is smooth.
There was no hesitation at WOT and everything is fine with engine braking.
The stage 1 tune is much more responsive than stock.

I only had time to drive it for around 5 mins after the flash.
The car was left overnight and when I started it this morning for work, I got a solid check engine light.
The self diagnostics indicates everything is OK and the car still drives fine so I will check faults with VCDS when I get home tonight.

Mike, you have 350 -400 awhp on a stock engine at the moment?

[B6A4GT3076R]

Mike, you have 350 -400 awhp on a stock engine at the moment?

Probably more but have since pulled head off for more bottom end work (full forged). Another year off the road due to other projects.

I maxxed out my 040 pump at 35psi and melted #4 piston which was probably going to happen sooner or later as my fuel system couldn't keep up.

Stock pistons are ok for 500-550ish. Any more and you'd need to reconsider your goals. I'm going to go out and say that once you hit your target, you're going to want more.

My goal was 250awkw. Did that easily and pushed past 300.

Mike.

[Dmnted]

Yes, everyone always wants more Mike.

Has anyone else had a check engine light pop up some time after a Eurodyne flash but not immediately ?

[Seerlah]

CEL works just like stock. I have received CELs with Eurodyne.

[diagnosticator]

The CEL might be related to flashing the AMB file onto the BFB ECU. The CEL is possibly related to a check sum error somewhere in the software files due to a mismatched memory mapping of the BFB ECU with AMB files.

This is similar to the CEL that occasionally occurred with The first APR hard chips installed on '02 1.8T ECUs. One instance of this problem I was involved with, there was a CEL and a check sum error DTC, "Program fault" that would not clear.

I don't know if this is the case or not, but it is something to look into, considering the AMB/BFB memory locations maybe are a little different. If you try an AMB ECU don't use an '02 m.y. ECU. Use only '03 through '05 ECUs

Part numbers 8E0 909 518 AF, AK or BC (AF/'03, AK/'04, BC/'05) The '03 Euro market BEX ECU should work as well, PN 8E0 909 518S

[Dmnted]

Cheers Diagnosticator!

I didn't get time to read faults last night due to a screaming baby I needed to help with.
And then I got distracted with beer.

I found an 8E0 909 518 AK for $100 delivered so now that is on the way.
I assume for the new ECU and Maestro to still work without buying 8 new credits I will need to either:

A: Clone my eeprom onto the new ECU?
B: Pair the new ECU with my cluster?
C: Someone point me in the right direction

Just to be clear, I just want to make sure that the new ECU will be able to be flashed with the maestro cable I have just purchased, I am not trying to "bootleg" anything.
I assume that when I adapt the new ECU to my cluster the VIN changes on the new ECU so it's no problem?

[diagnosticator]

Cheers Diagnosticator!

I didn't get time to read faults last night due to a screaming baby I needed to help with.
And then I got distracted with beer.

I found an 8E0 909 518 AK for $100 delivered so now that is on the way.
I assume for the new ECU and Maestro to still work without buying 8 new credits I will need to either:

A: Clone my eeprom onto the new ECU?
B: Pair the new ECU with my cluster?
C: Someone point me in the right direction

Just to be clear, I just want to make sure that the new ECU will be able to be flashed with the maestro cable I have just purchased, I am not trying to "bootleg" anything.
I assume that when I adapt the new ECU to my cluster the VIN changes on the new ECU so it's no problem?

Using VCDS, in each controller, enter the code VDCS provides into channel 081. this starts the automated process of adapting the controller to the VIN.

I don't know if you will be able to flash the AMB ECU without buying more credits. The AMB ECU will be completely compatible with Maestro however.

It is important to determine the nature of the CEL with the BFB ECU before flashing the AMB ECU. If the CEL clears, you need to know what is setting the CEL, and if it occurs again or not.

[Seerlah]

You won't be able to flash that ecu without buying credits, as mentioned above. I would contact Eurodyne and see if they can email you credits to flash the new ecu. Problem is, now it is a trust issue. For all they know, you will be using both ecus for their software at the price of one. They simply won't just give you credits. If you did something like sent them your flashed ecu and then they give you credits after recieving it, then I see them giving you credits. But who would do something like that?!?! Then they do something like bring your ecu to stock and send it back.

In a nutshell, they need concrete evidence that you are not running one over on them. Then I see them giving you credits, but only because of your situation. If not, then expect to buy more credits. Once you register your software to your cable, they are basically married to each others. That cable, and not software, will only recognise and work with ecus registered to it for the tuning and flash features.

[Dmnted]

Hanks Diagnosticator.
Seerlah, what registers the cable to the car, is it the vin?
I have now read in the ross tech wiki that once you adapt the new ECU to the car, it then gets / carries my original vin and wipes any flash or tune in the same process.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...I_ECU_Swapping
I would have thought that software wise, my car would then see the new ecu to be the same as the original?
I am probably complete confused though.

[B6A4Dave]

...for the record.. I have extensive experience with Eurodyne... and its hot fucking garbage... get VEMS or something else..

Eurodyne is extremely limited and total utter trash.

[Dmnted]

Well, I received my AMB ECU yesterday (8E0 909 518 AK)

I adapted the ECU using VAG com + can and VCDS and had no issues.
I checked for faults and found 1 involving the Cruise Control Switch - Implausible Signal, which was already existing and I have never bothered to fix it.

With no new faults, I fired up Maestro and read the new ECU so I had a copy of the original file, then flashed the AMB Stage 1 file onto the new ECU.
Luckily, I had no problems with flashing the stage 1 file onto the replacement ECU

The funny thing though is when I took it for a run, the new ECU with same Maestro Stage 1 file did not feel as quick or powerful as my original ECU.

Anyway, I got a check engine light again so I read the faults and with the exception of the cruise control switch, I had some fault codes disappear, some remain, and some come up.

I assume the P1473 EVAP code is something that has been enabled in the flash but does not exist on the Australia model?
I think I noticed I could disable EVAP in maestro…

This is the fault on my original ECU after the stage 1 flash.

3 Faults Found:
17977 - Cruise Control Switch (E45)
P1569 - 008 - Implausible Signal
17881 - EVAP Leak Detection Pump
P1473 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
17698 - Coolant Temp Sensor at Radiator Outlet (G83)
P1290 - 002 - Signal too Small - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0100

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 517 A
Component: ABS/ESP allrad 1726
Coding: 04475
Shop #: WSC 06435
VCID: 2643101AC247002ECEF-517A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
Part No: 8E0 820 043 H
Component: A4 Klimaautomat 1016
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 63351
VCID: 2643101AC247002ECEF-517A

1 Fault Found:
01809 - Actuating Motor for Temperature Flap; Left (V158)
41-00 - Blocked or No Voltage

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8E0-907-279-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 907 279 E
Component: int. Lastmodul RDW 0305
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 63351
VCID: 3467FA52049B62BE40B-4B36

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8E0-959-655-84.lbl
Part No: 8E0 959 655 B
Component: Airbag 8.4EP 2000
Coding: 0010602
Shop #: WSC 63351 000 00000
VCID: 3663C05A42E770AE7EF-5198

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 8E0 953 549 L
Component: Lenksáulenmodul 0308
Coding: 00041
Shop #: WSC 63351
VCID: 3C77D2722CCBAAFE88B-4B50

1 Fault Found:
00895 - Cruise Control Switch (E45)
04-00 - Mechanical Malfunction

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 920 900 L
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D35
Coding: 11700
Shop #: WSC 42150
VCID: 2D51EF36E7B133760F5-5198


1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.lbl
Part No: 8E0 959 433 AS
Component: Komfortgerát T01 1210
Coding: 06900
Shop #: WSC 42150
VCID: 820BEC8A8EAF9C0E027-4B36

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E2959802B
Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0002

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E2959801B
Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0002

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0002

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0002

No fault code found.

End

These are the faults on my replacement AMB ECU after the stage 1 flash

3 Faults Found:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
17881 - EVAP Leak Detection Pump
P1473 - 004 - Open Circuit - MIL ON
17977 - Cruise Control Switch (E45)
P1569 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 517 A
Component: ABS/ESP allrad 1726
Coding: 04475
Shop #: WSC 06435
VCID: 2643101AC247002ECEF-517A

1 Fault Found:
18258 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1850 - 35-10 - Missing Message from ECU - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
Part No: 8E0 820 043 H
Component: A4 Klimaautomat 1016
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 63351
VCID: 2643101AC247002ECEF-5198

2 Faults Found:
01809 - Actuating Motor for Temperature Flap; Left (V158)
41-00 - Blocked or No Voltage
00474 - Control Module for Immobilizer
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8E0-907-279-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 907 279 E
Component: int. Lastmodul RDW 0305
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 63351
VCID: 3467FA52049B62BE40B-4B50

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8E0-959-655-84.lbl
Part No: 8E0 959 655 B
Component: Airbag 8.4EP 2000
Coding: 0010602
Shop #: WSC 63351 000 00000
VCID: 3663C05A42E770AE7EF-5198

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 8E0 953 549 L
Component: Lenksáulenmodul 0308
Coding: 00041
Shop #: WSC 63351
VCID: 3C77D2722CCBAAFE88B-4B36

2 Faults Found:
00474 - Control Module for Immobilizer
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
00895 - Cruise Control Switch (E45)
04-10 - Mechanical Malfunction - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 920 900 L
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D35
Coding: 11700
Shop #: WSC 42150
VCID: 2D51EF36E7B133760F5-5198


2 Faults Found:
01176 - Key
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.lbl
Part No: 8E0 959 433 AS
Component: Komfortgerát T01 1210
Coding: 06900
Shop #: WSC 42150
VCID: 820BEC8A8EAF9C0E027-4B50

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E2959802B
Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0002

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E2959801B
Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0002

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0002

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0002

No fault code found.

End

*Edit: remove Vin and Immob detail

[diagnosticator]

Notice the intermittent No Communications DTCs. This is a fault detected on the Power Train CAN buss, being intermittent, is not a current fault when the ECU was last scanned. A poor electrical connection in the CAN buss somewhere is the most likely cause of this DTC. It could also be a broken CAN buss wire.

The EVAP leak detection pump open circuit code is related to the circuit for the drive power to the EVAP leak detection pump. I would think that you have the EVAP equipment since it is involved with capturing fuel vapors and routing the fuel vapors to the carbon storage cannister, then metering stored fuel vapors to the engine for burning instead of being allowed to escape to the outside air. During EVAP purge, the fuel vapors from the carbon cannister make up a significant part of the total fuel mass for the engine operation. The Leak Detection Pump is used to test the fuel vapor capture plumbing for leaks. The open circuit DTC is set because the ECU does not see the pump as a load on the ECU power switch for the pump.

Have you tried clearing all the ECU DTCs and seeing what codes reoccur? If not, then clear the existing codes and see what codes reoccur. Any codes that are persistent, need the causes fixed.

In addition, there is nothing other than your perception to explain the lower power you think is occurring with the AMB ECU. The ECU does not operate differently or output different engine control parameters dependant on ECU part number.

[Dmnted]

Thanks again diagnosticator, I have reinstalled my original ECU, and cleared the codes.
I still received the leak detector pump, cruise control and coolant temp sensor faults.

I did some research and found that Australian Model does not have a leak detector pump (so they claim) so I'll change the fault to either 0 or 5.
I have a new cruise control switch and will order a new temp sensor and then hopefully, everything will be solved and I can get onto some more fun stuff.

It was interesting that the Maestro cable worked with both ECU's once it was adapted to the car.
I guess the cable / software must check the instrument cluster as well as the ECU to verify everything checks out.