S4 vs A4 Clutch Differences

[ParadigmTony]

Perhaps its information overload, or maybe is the nyquil. What is the difference between the s4 and a4 clutches. To be more direct, will the s4 clutch options fit the a4. I feel like Im missing something. On certain sites and places they are listed for both cars, while on other sites they only offer s4 options. I think I read before that the A4 just has to upgrade to an S4 Flywheel to use an S4 clutch. Anyone confirm or clarify that? Seeing as everyone is looking for clutches right now..

[Dub_prime]

I've been looking for the same answer for months, but haven't found the specs for the diameter and such. The FW looks identical on both and the transmission seems to be the same, but I never found anything concrete.

[ParadigmTony]

I've been looking for the same answer for months, but haven't found the specs for the diameter and such. The FW looks identical on both and the transmission seems to be the same, but I never found anything concrete.

Thats basically where Im at I know the A4 has a 240mm clutch but whether the s4 does I have no idea. I do know of people running large stage clutches for example APR I just dont know the spec differences. For example Arin posted what their demo car is running for Clutch components LWFW/Disc/PP and the part numbers. When I find the corresponding items on say ECS the part numbers are slightly different. I dont know if thats because of a difference in transmission between both cars, or just ECS. Im 98% sure If I buy an S4 FW the clutch works. Just not sure if I say, kept the a4 fw that a s4 clutch would mate. Just looking for clarity before I get balls deep into the job just to find holes that dont align or something.

[ParadigmTony]

After going to Clutch Masters site directly. There does appear to be a large difference in S4 and A4 Flywheel. Most notably a weight difference of 12lbs between the two. However CM does have several options for our car specifically. While this doesn't answer my question directly it does offer options I hadn't seen yet. Although the s4 has way more options for comparison sake.

[roxta]

A quick check on the Sachs website shows the same Audi part numbers for S4 clutch and A4 clutch

http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sach...5067_5136.html

http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sach...5067_5573.html

[Mr.Audi]

The plot thickens


Sent from ....

[roxta]

I've got the Sachs performance clutch in with a LUK dual mass flywheel. No fitting issues. Feels just like stock but with 530nm of clamping.

[roxta]

My bad the only part number that matches between S4 and A4 is the throw out bearing

[ParadigmTony]

My bad the only part number that matches between S4 and A4 is the throw out bearing

I know they have a different flywheel and weight, also different clutch diameter. Im not sure exactly what size the S4 is, but know the A4 is 240mm. What I'm more curious about is whether the S4 Flywheel and Clutch will line up on the A4. I believe yes, but... Im beginning to doubt it.

[Mr.Audi]

I've got the Sachs performance clutch in with a LUK dual mass flywheel. No fitting issues. Feels just like stock but with 530nm of clamping.

All made for the a4 right?


Sent from ....

[Dub_prime]

Maybe the whole S4 assembly would work?

[ParadigmTony]

Maybe the whole S4 assembly would work?

This is what I believe to be true. The only differences Im aware of in the actual transmission is slightly different gearing naturally, but I believe the housing and hardware to be the same. To note, I have never seen them side by side. That was the literal point of this thread, has anyone put an s4 clutch in their car..

[ParadigmTony]

Im going to go out on a limb after a few days of scouring and comparing and say it cannot be done... Or more so doesn't need to be done. There is certainly less clutch options for the A4 and Flywheel, but there is enough to provide a good comparison and value. So in short, it may be able to be done but unless you get a good deal on a used s4 clutch or second hand, I cannot see a reason to do it. All options I have seen are comparable in clamping force and flywheel options appear a bit lighter (I assume because its smaller only) although I think a bit of weight would make starts a bit easier on this smaller engine.

[roxta]

All made for the a4 right?


Sent from ....

Yes that's correct

[zokissima]

Yes that's correct

Do you have links to what exactly you ordered?

[blbroo]

https://www.ecstuning.com/ES4438/?gc...IHcaAlZT8P8HAQ

and

http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sach...8up7mdg8pb1ld1

??

[englishbay]

I've got the Sachs performance clutch in with a LUK dual mass flywheel. No fitting issues. Feels just like stock but with 530nm of clamping.

That's 390 Ft Ibs, are you going to Stage III and if so do you think that will be enough?

[roxta]

Do you have links to what exactly you ordered?

http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sach...5067_5573.html

One clutch is for the LUK flywheel and the other is for the Sachs flywheel. Though when I quizzed them they said they only make the one for LUK.

[roxta]

That's 390 Ft Ibs, are you going to Stage III and if so do you think that will be enough?

I'm waiting to see pricing on the EFR kit and a torque curve. If there is a big gap below 3000rpm in torque then I'm out and will go with K04. I don't want lag. Since there is no info on torque yet for stage 3 I don't know if 530nm is enough. But the clutch feels just like stock no extra effort in engagement which is what I want in a daily.

[bermudakid]

In for an answer, I asked last near and never found out.

[roxta]

I'm waiting to see pricing on the EFR kit and a torque curve. If there is a big gap below 3000rpm in torque then I'm out and will go with K04. I don't want lag. Since there is no info on torque yet for stage 3 I don't know if 530nm is enough. But the clutch feels just like stock no extra effort in engagement which is what I want in a daily.

Also I couldn't wait any longer to find out if 530nm is enough as I had to pull the trigger on a rebuild and to save on labour I changed the flywheel and clutch at the same time.

[blbroo]

@ParadigmTony

What flywheel options have you found? Besides the stock dual mass, I can only find JHM, ECS, Eurocode and Clutch Masters. All of them are near $1000, which sucks because you could get a full B7 stage 2 clutch and lightweight flywheel kit for $980.

Right now, I am leaning towards the ECS flywheel to match up with the Spec Stage 2+ clutch kit. The Spec kit arrives tomorrow and I only today realized that our flywheels are not able to be resurfaced.

[ParadigmTony]

That is pretty much the definitive list. Although Southbend has one as well. The thing with a LWFW is they are typically designed to be paired with their configuration. Clamping force, friction surface, mass etc. The ECS is interestingly just hey here ya go. To be honest Spec is a shit shit company. Although some have had good luck with them, I never have, and that rings true for most everyone I know. There figures or specs are almost always at least 10-15% off minimum. Likely not a problem if you're only running K04 etc. The stock dual mass cannot be resurfaced, but adversely claims to not need to be. (somehow) In theory they advocate replacing it with a new clutch, or as most dealers do, just put a new clutch on it.. Our clutch kits are ridiculously audi taxed. Its unreal. I had an exedy triple plate on my evo that was cheaper than my stage 3 sprung hub single plate EC Clutch.. Im actually really interested in the Southbend kit. But no matter what one you decide you're talking a max of a couple hundred bucks difference. I wish someone would just come out and blow the competitive market out.

[blbroo]

That is pretty much the definitive list. Although Southbend has one as well. The thing with a LWFW is they are typically designed to be paired with their configuration. Clamping force, friction surface, mass etc. The ECS is interestingly just hey here ya go. To be honest Spec is a shit shit company. Although some have had good luck with them, I never have, and that rings true for most everyone I know. There figures or specs are almost always at least 10-15% off minimum. Likely not a problem if you're only running K04 etc. The stock dual mass cannot be resurfaced, but adversely claims to not need to be. (somehow) In theory they advocate replacing it with a new clutch, or as most dealers do, just put a new clutch on it.. Our clutch kits are ridiculously audi taxed. Its unreal. I had an exedy triple plate on my evo that was cheaper than my stage 3 sprung hub single plate EC Clutch.. Im actually really interested in the Southbend kit. But no matter what one you decide you're talking a max of a couple hundred bucks difference. I wish someone would just come out and blow the competitive market out.

poop.

I've seen a lot of mixed comments on replacing the flywheel or not. If reusing the stock one is fine, I'd rather save the $1000.

[ParadigmTony]

poop.

I've seen a lot of mixed comments on replacing the flywheel or not. If reusing the stock one is fine, I'd rather save the $1000.

Its a 50/50 chance really. The labor is so intensive that it only really makes sense to do it all and not risk it. However its another 1000 damn dollars! I know people replace without resurface. I know my dealer doesn't resurface or replace the FW so I can only assume. However they are putting a stock clutch surface on a stock FW. Ehhh I dont know.

[blbroo]

I'm just going to replace the stock dual mass LUK. DMF141

It's $589 on rockauto, and around $1000 on most of the audi part websites. Audi tax shit.

[jorte014]

That is pretty much the definitive list. Although Southbend has one as well. The thing with a LWFW is they are typically designed to be paired with their configuration. Clamping force, friction surface, mass etc. The ECS is interestingly just hey here ya go. To be honest Spec is a shit shit company. Although some have had good luck with them, I never have, and that rings true for most everyone I know. There figures or specs are almost always at least 10-15% off minimum. Likely not a problem if you're only running K04 etc. The stock dual mass cannot be resurfaced, but adversely claims to not need to be. (somehow) In theory they advocate replacing it with a new clutch, or as most dealers do, just put a new clutch on it.. Our clutch kits are ridiculously audi taxed. Its unreal. I had an exedy triple plate on my evo that was cheaper than my stage 3 sprung hub single plate EC Clutch.. Im actually really interested in the Southbend kit. But no matter what one you decide you're talking a max of a couple hundred bucks difference. I wish someone would just come out and blow the competitive market out.

What's the consensus on Eurocode? I'm looking to replace my shot to sh*t clutch and flywheel with this kit. Those torque capacity numbers seem a little too high to be true?.

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi--...L-Stage-2.html

[blbroo]

What's the consensus on Eurocode? I'm looking to replace my shot to sh*t clutch and flywheel with this kit. Those torque capacity numbers seem a little too high to be true?.

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi--...L-Stage-2.html

From what I have read, the life on the Eurocode clutch is REALLY short.

[jorte014]

From what I have read, the life on the Eurocode clutch is REALLY short.

Seriously?? Foo. What about southbend? I guess i'll just probably end up doing what you're doing if that's the case. Get a southbend or clutchmasters and just get an OEM flywheel.

[blbroo]

Seriously?? Foo. What about southbend? I guess i'll just probably end up doing what you're doing if that's the case. Get a southbend or clutchmasters and just get an OEM flywheel.

I hear nothing but good things about South Bend. After learning more about single mass clutches, I don't want to deal with the chatter and extra touchiness.

[Zach L]

Someone call Four Season Tuning... they will give a definitive answer to this question.