New B8.5 S5: help me upgrade the suspension!

[dawgcatching]

I just took delivery of a new-to-me 2013 S5. Loving the car! Been a BMW guy before this, I still miss the steering feel on my 335is, but this engine rocks and the suspension is more sorted. Clutch is smoother too, just such a great driver's car that is a head turner and not something you see every day. With that said, another guy a few blocks away drives an S5, and I see a blonde lady also a few blocks away rocking a murdered-out RS5. So they aren't super rare, but not common either. It always gets comments.

With that said, the stand height is awfully high! (the wheels are another story...) Gotta do something about that ride height first. The car came equipped with Adaptive suspension. I want to drop it an inch to 1.5 inches. Nothing too extreme. I have seen a lot of threads about options out there: what do you all think is the best route? I don't necessarily need the adaptive suspension feature, as I don't use it now. Something sporty yet not bone-jarring is perfect, I will be driving the car on weekends, maybe track it one day a year, but mostly sporty backroad driving and summertime commuting. Options? I see a zillion threads, but couldn't find the exact info on the best choices.

1) coilovers: I can't afford the KW versions that retain the adaptive suspension features, most likely. If I go this route, I am looking at well over $5k?

2) which coilovers if I want to pull the adaptive dampers off? Best way to cancel the error light without losing the other functionalities (such as throttle response)

3) which lowering springs are compatible? I hear KW has one, Stasis another, but will these blow my dampers? I know on my BMW, I was told "don't lower your car without using dampers designed for the lowered ride height".

4) If I drop it 1 to 1.5", will I need camber plates and other alignment parts?

[4RingRook]

Welcome. Are you certain you have adaptive? I have a '13 S5 with the sport diff - pulled my suspension for H&Rs and never got an error.

1) Not sure.
2) H&R Street Performance coilovers. KW makes a module to cancel out the error, if required.
3) KW Height Adjustable Springs. Aftermarket springs will always put more stress on OEM struts which should shorten their lifespan. By how much, is hard to say.
4) Adjustable control arms if you want to pull your camber close to OEM spec. (Get an alignment after you lower it, and ask to have the toe set as close to zero as possible).

5) 20 mm front and 25 mm rear spacers will help the wheels look better. [H&R DRA Trak+ bolt to your hub so they don't require extended bolts].

[JamesRS5]

If you have adaptive damping then just fit a set of either the H&R OE Sport Springs which will drop it around 0.9" and keep a great quality ride or go for the H&R Sport Spring if you like to go a little lower (1.2") and don't mind wearing a sports bra.

If you've got the adaptive damping then it's far better quality than any budget coilover you see out there.

As said above, a set of springs and spacers will have it looking great.

Lovely looking car by the way, congratulations.

[jamin_00]

Bilstein PSS10's. You can adjust the rebound and compression by the turn of 1 dial on the bottom of the shocks.

You can go from boat wallowing floaty to SOLID in 5 mins. You have to jack the car to get at the front dials. I have 4 set on the front and 5 on the rear and this is slightly more sporty than stock but nice and comfortable (enough) for 400 miles a week motorway. Might actually drop 1 number now the winters here. Plus the height can be set to suit your style perfectly.


James, I would say the Bilsteins are going to be better quality than OEM. Bilsteins are world renowned and the choice on many many race cars etc.

What you have to remember with OEM stuff, regardless of who makes it, its made at a cost and quality will be impaired. Lets use B+O as an example. The car speakers are good, but no where near a s good as any B+O items you would buy directly from B+O as you can bet Audi are only prob paying less than $100 for a complete set of speakers so quality will be compromised.
Its also like, the meme that was going around ages ago about the aeroplanes. something like "Remember, your flying in something that was built by the lowest bidder"

[JamesRS5]

Im with you, I wouldn't put any Bilstein product in the 'budget' category I've always used their products on all of my cars.

The OP said he didn't want to pay for a coilovers that would replace the OE adjustable suspension so why not keep the very effective OE dampers and just fit some lowering springs.
If he wants to go for an expensive KW or Bilstien setup later on but I wouldn't try and save money by fitting cheap coilovers just because they are coilovers, he car will look just as good and handle better it's just a set of springs.

[Mops@Nemesis]

KW HAS is your best bet. They were designed just for ADS cars, that want to retain damps, and still have height adjustments. Great product.

[jamin_00]

Im with you, I wouldn't put any Bilstein product in the 'budget' category I've always used their products on all of my cars.

The OP said he didn't want to pay for a coilovers that would replace the OE adjustable suspension so why not keep the very effective OE dampers and just fit some lowering springs.
If he wants to go for an expensive KW or Bilstien setup later on but I wouldn't try and save money by fitting cheap coilovers just because they are coilovers, he car will look just as good and handle better it's just a set of springs.

Ah ok, I read your reply as a reply to mine also lol.

[JamesRS5]

KW HAS is your best bet. They were designed just for ADS cars, that want to retain damps, and still have height adjustments. Great product.

Yep, absolutely. I forgot about the HAS option.

[bruno7652]

If you have the ADS I would not defeat its purpose, I am riding on H&R springs and I enjoy the ride.
My H&R springs dropped me about the advertized 1.2 inches, this my daily driver and I did not want to bottom out
on the pot holes in the roads out there.
Once you install the lowering springs it takes about a week for the springs to settle in.
I have my ADS setting at Dynamic, in my personal opinion a sports car should ride like a sport car not a rolling couch.
We have similar rides, I hope these pictures help you out.

[dawgcatching]

Im with you, I wouldn't put any Bilstein product in the 'budget' category I've always used their products on all of my cars.

The OP said he didn't want to pay for a coilovers that would replace the OE adjustable suspension so why not keep the very effective OE dampers and just fit some lowering springs.
If he wants to go for an expensive KW or Bilstien setup later on but I wouldn't try and save money by fitting cheap coilovers just because they are coilovers, he car will look just as good and handle better it's just a set of springs.

Hi,

I should clarify: I don't mind going the coilover route, as long as I can zero out the error message and also retain the drive select features for the engine and whatnot. The suspension doesn't need to be adjustable necessarily, and I don't mind pulling off the OE dampers.

[doug97gxe]

if you don't mind just springs and your roads are smooth then the H&R Sport Springs is another option

[Beast]

Hi,

I should clarify: I don't mind going the coilover route, as long as I can zero out the error message and also retain the drive select features for the engine and whatnot. The suspension doesn't need to be adjustable necessarily, and I don't mind pulling off the OE dampers.

I did that on my A5 with adaptive ride, H&R Street Coils with KW Error delete modules...... after one winter though one of the modules stopped working however. I also found the ride quality of the H&R Streets pretty bad tbh (horrible roads though). If I did it now i would keep the ADS and pop in some KW HAS Springs so you can still use drive select.

[DOCEVG]

OP: are you the dawgcatching from Epicski? Location looks about right.
If so, welcome. If not, welcome anyway.

[jwr9152]

Question 2 Bilstein PSS10 - great coilover that can be adjusted from the bottom. I don't have to jack my car up to reach mine. There is no access to the coilovers from above. They are a lot cheaper then $5000.

Question 4 You may need either SPC control arms or 034 motorsports also make some. After the coilovers, take it to get it aligned, and if they cant get it, then get the control arms.

[Zach@etektuning]

We are a Blstein and 034 dealer among many other.

Here are some options for your S5.

http://www.etektuning.com/categories...b/Suspension-/

[bknewtype]

just go air. xD

[doug97gxe]

in my personal opinion a sports car should ride like a sport car not a rolling couch.

i love this quote

[dawgcatching]

OP: are you the dawgcatching from Epicski? Location looks about right.
If so, welcome. If not, welcome anyway.

Yes, that's me! This car is much to nice to trash with flying road debris and pumice in the winter, so I will be driving my trusty 2001 Tacoma up to the mountain this winter. Works alot better when hauling up 5+ pairs of skis to test as well. Since the cold temps have hit, the car has basically been parked. Gotta at least get some all-season tires on there and get it out of the garage!

Snow is flying, I am cautiously optimistic after last seasons' debacle of a winter.

[dawgcatching]

i love this quote

I couldn't agree more. I don't need a race car or straight up track car, but why not at least a real "sport suspension" option that doesn't sit 7.5" off the ground from the factory? This is an S car after all, anyone requiring SUV-like clearance will probably get an Allroad.

[blackluna]

Just to lower it - get the lowering springs, that's the cheapest option.
Also improve the handling - either H&R or Bilstein coils.

Bilsteins are expensive. I thought about them and went the H&R coils route to save money. H&R stiffness is just right for the street. They are stiff but nothing crazy and they really make the car solid. Looks great too with 15/20 spacers. A bit conservative but much much better than stock.

Disclaimer: I have a pre-FL S5 and I don't have ADS so I don't actually know if H&R will work fine with ADS but I'm sure it's simple to figure out by asking your shop (or call Achtuning).

[Brozee]

Coilovers or bust. I never understood and never will understand getting just lowering coils if you intend to drive your car the way it is meant to be driven. The upgraded shocks and coils combo is a much better option than just lowering coils on stock shocks. The PSS10 setup is great!

I ended up going H&R Street Performance coilovers and I'm quite low. I do have the SPC adjustable control arms but I did not need them as they are still set at factory spec settings. The car is perfectly aligned too. The combination of the coilovers and new sway bars completely transformed my car

[XLR8 Craig]

Coilovers or bust. I never understood and never will understand getting just lowering coils if you intend to drive your car the way it is meant to be driven. The upgraded shocks and coils combo is a much better option than just lowering coils on stock shocks. The PSS10 setup is great!

I ended up going H&R Street Performance coilovers and I'm quite low. I do have the SPC adjustable control arms but I did not need them as they are still set at factory spec settings. The car is perfectly aligned too. The combination of the coilovers and new sway bars completely transformed my car

I typically agree with you, but the factory adaptive suspension really is nice. Like Mops said, the KW HAS is a great bang for your buck for the cars that have it and works really well. I also cant argue with you on the PSS10 either, awesome product and would be my go to if it fits in your budget.

I also highly recommend the SPC upper control arms. Once thing we noticed doing installations and alignment is that anything really past a 1" drop (OE Sport Spring) the cars are really a the limits of spec for camber. Any sport spring or coilover should get adjustable control arms.

KW HAS
http://vag.excelerateperformance.com.../i-412667.aspx

PSS10
http://vag.excelerateperformance.com...i-1735569.aspx

SPC Control Arms (2 Required)
http://vag.excelerateperformance.com...i-2247860.aspx


Thanks,

Greg

[JamesRS5]

Coilovers or bust. I never understood and never will understand getting just lowering coils if you intend to drive your car the way it is meant to be driven. The upgraded shocks and coils combo is a much better option than just lowering coils on stock shocks. The PSS10 setup is great!

I ended up going H&R Street Performance coilovers and I'm quite low. I do have the SPC adjustable control arms but I did not need them as they are still set at factory spec settings. The car is perfectly aligned too. The combination of the coilovers and new sway bars completely transformed my car

This is one of the largest misconceptions people make, a "coilover" is just that, the spring (coil) is over the damper. The standard spring and damper from the factory is classed as a coilover (mc phearson strut).

Adding a screw thread to the damper body does not give you magical handling powers, it gives the ability to alter the ride height which is exactly what adding a set of lowering spring does. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if the spring has a 2.5" internal diameter or a 6" internal diameter, providing the damper and spring are well matched then it will work well and there will be an improvement.

[jwr9152]

This is one of the largest misconceptions people make, a "coilover" is just that, the spring (coil) is over the damper. The standard spring and damper from the factory is classed as a coilover (mc phearson strut).

Adding a screw thread to the damper body does not give you magical handling powers, it gives the ability to alter the ride height which is exactly what adding a set of lowering spring does. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if the spring has a 2.5" internal diameter or a 6" internal diameter, providing the damper and spring are well matched then it will work well and there will be an improvement.

I think that is the problem. In my opinion H&R are not matched well with the dampers. Bilstein PSS10 are a noticeable improvement. Plus the added benefit of adjustability.

[WinterRunner]

No ohlins ?

[doug97gxe]

No ohlins ?

i hardly see ohlins on car's... they are HUGE in the motorcycle world

[WinterRunner]

Many Rs4 owners run them.

[JamesRS5]

I think that is the problem. In my opinion H&R are not matched well with the dampers. Bilstein PSS10 are a noticeable improvement. Plus the added benefit of adjustability.

I agree, uprated spring manufacturers have to deal with their springs going on anything from a brand new car to a 10 year old car with worn dampers. The H&R OE Sport is a good compromise between lowering, asthetics and performance, I fitted the Eibach spring which is designed for the S5 4.2 V8 to my RS5 as it has a nice spring rate which works well with the DRC dampers.

Any of the Bilstein products will be an improvement, the PSS10 especially.

The OP said he has adaptive damping already which are good dampers so really he's just needing to lower slightly which would be on a set of springs.

[dawgcatching]

This is one of the largest misconceptions people make, a "coilover" is just that, the spring (coil) is over the damper. The standard spring and damper from the factory is classed as a coilover (mc phearson strut).

Adding a screw thread to the damper body does not give you magical handling powers, it gives the ability to alter the ride height which is exactly what adding a set of lowering spring does. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if the spring has a 2.5" internal diameter or a 6" internal diameter, providing the damper and spring are well matched then it will work well and there will be an improvement.

My other option was a set of the Bilstein B12's, which is just a matched set of dampers to Eibach pro springs. While I know this doesn't have the adjustability of the PSS10, the ride height should be just about perfect, and if it is tuned for a sporty daily ride, it would be perfect. Would this be a good alternative to coilovers? Obviously the price is more attractive.

[Mean Machine]

I typically agree with you, but the factory adaptive suspension really is nice. Like Mops said, the KW HAS is a great bang for your buck for the cars that have it and works really well. I also cant argue with you on the PSS10 either, awesome product and would be my go to if it fits in your budget.

I also highly recommend the SPC upper control arms. Once thing we noticed doing installations and alignment is that anything really past a 1" drop (OE Sport Spring) the cars are really a the limits of spec for camber. Any sport spring or coilover should get adjustable control arms.

KW HAS

url]http://vag.excelerateperformance.com/kw-suspension/kw-has-coilover-sleeves/25310075/i-412667.aspx[/url]

PSS10
http://vag.excelerateperformance.com...i-1735569.aspx

SPC Control Arms (2 Required)
http://vag.excelerateperformance.com...i-2247860.aspx


Thanks,

Greg

The suspension is next on my list and I've been looking at the Bilstein B16 RC setup - will this work on the RS5 or is it just the PSS10?

[Mops@Nemesis]

The suspension is next on my list and I've been looking at the Bilstein B16 RC setup - will this work on the RS5 or is it just the PSS10?

They will. I've done several B16 setups on the RS5.


Mops on the move

[blackluna]

My other option was a set of the Bilstein B12's, which is just a matched set of dampers to Eibach pro springs. While I know this doesn't have the adjustability of the PSS10, the ride height should be just about perfect, and if it is tuned for a sporty daily ride, it would be perfect. Would this be a good alternative to coilovers? Obviously the price is more attractive.

How much do they cost? H&R coils are ~1100 IIRC and you can adjust height with them. I think height adjustment is very important as it's very personal and you might not like it if you can't set the height exactly like you want it.

[Brozee]

This is one of the largest misconceptions people make, a "coilover" is just that, the spring (coil) is over the damper. The standard spring and damper from the factory is classed as a coilover (mc phearson strut).

Adding a screw thread to the damper body does not give you magical handling powers, it gives the ability to alter the ride height which is exactly what adding a set of lowering spring does. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if the spring has a 2.5" internal diameter or a 6" internal diameter, providing the damper and spring are well matched then it will work well and there will be an improvement.

Agreed, but many times, the upgraded shock that comes with the coilover setup performs better with the new springs than the springs do with the OEM shocks.

[ians]

Congrats on your new S5, I also own a RWD 335i with the dreading N54 too. Same conclusion as you, the go kart handling and steering feel on 335i is unbeatable but the refinement & smoothest on engine & 6MT from the S5 is way more than compensate it! As I am almost switching between both car everyday (Actually, my wife drive the S5 most of the time, so I can only drive it after she back home from work), so I am not judging from my butt memory.

Regarding the handling mod, I went through a lot of pain! First, the local indy shop told me I only have 2 options to lowered my S5 (no ADS but has sport diff):
1, H&R lower springs
2, KW v1/2/3 coilover
Since I dun have good experience with my KW v2 coilover on my 335i, so I am very question about KW quality and went with H&R OE springs. Drove it for a year, found out the car became bouncy more and more! With some unperfect pavement, I even feel that my S5 was throw up to the air! So I picked up a set of used h&r street coilover and was a big improvement. However, originally I set it a bit too low and cause some rubbing on my 20" and also experience some bottom out so I decided to raise up 1/2 in. Then nightmare came! It stuck! my mechanic not even able to adjust the height with all kind of tools either on car or away from car! So I call H&R, they refuse to help (26mth old) or sell me any replacement parts otherthan sell me a whole set with 5% discount from MSRP! And no other shop willing to rebuild h&r coilovers so I have to ditch it and went all the way to PSS10! Now I am very happy with PSS10, no more rubbing, no more bottom out and the handling is really amazing too!

On top of the coilover, I also have the Alu Kurez & Eurocode swaybar to reduce the flex on the chassis and reduce the bodyroll. My experience tell me, dun cheap out on such a beauty! S5 deserve the best products on the market!

[XLR8 Craig]

The suspension is next on my list and I've been looking at the Bilstein B16 RC setup - will this work on the RS5 or is it just the PSS10?

Yes, As Mops also stated they work just fine.