New member! BMW E92 M3 DCT or S5 V8 6 spd??

[rfcpatrick09]

Hi, I am a new member to Audizine and wanted to ask a question before I get in an Audi S5.

I currently drive a Mini Cooper S 6spd and its getting old.

I was considering a lot between a E92 M3 and S5 V8 but can't decide. Test drove both of them, I must say I like S5 a bit better as it's more livable in daily driving situation.

Well, interior is far better in a S5 that's for sure.

My concern is mainly maintenance cost and reliability. Heard E92 M3 is by far one of the most reliable BMWs though it's got few problems like rod bearing issues and DCT leaks.

S5, I know for a fact that it needs a clean up due to carbon build up but seems like not that much of work (heard I can get it cleaned for $800 and can last somewhere around 50k miles? I mean I am willing to drop $800 every 50k miles that's no problem)

Any ideas?

Thank you!

[d1amund]

Oh boy here we go!

S5

[big_greasy_taco]

Ive owned an rs5, rs4, a4, and 3 m3's... its 100% personnal preference. This is an audi forum, so of course its going to be biased.

Both are great cars. However, the s5 is more on par with a 335i, where as the rs5 is more on par with the m3, both pricewise and performance wise.

[Optiondoc]

^^ This. Also, imo if I were in your position I would go with the supercharged S5, and add some APR to it for more fun.


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[rfcpatrick09]

I see. I am more towards the S5 and that's exactly why I came to Audizine instead of bimmerpost to make up my mind!

Any reason why 3.0T S5 is more favorable? Is it easier to live with when it comes to maintenance? I thought V8 would be more reliable due to its NA nature but I can always be wrong as I have never owned any Audis in my life!

[LINDW4LL]

While the S5 has the nicer interior, the E92 M3 is unquestionably MUCH more exciting/engaging to drive and is a better performance vehicle than the V8 S5 in every single way. The M3 is on par with RS5 performance... Given that AWD isn't a big factor since you don't see much snow in Seattle, I'd go with the M3 in this comparison or consider a 3.0T S5.

Both the V8 and 3.0T are very reliable, but the 3.0T doesn't have the carbon buildup issue that plagues the 4.2, and more importantly makes more power. It also is easily/cheaply tuned to reliably make more power than both the RS5/E92 M3 and with a lot more torque, too.

[rfcpatrick09]

That's true. AWD isn't really necessary in Pacific Northwest due to lack of snow and moreover my wife has a Volvo S80 AWD which can confidently perform in the heavy rain/snow if needed.

I do agree that M3 is a lot more rewarding when it comes to the driving experience. 10 minute of test drive on S5 and M3, I could definitely see the difference in performance area.

Though, performance isn't the biggest factor in this though. Even though I chose a M3 to compare, the only reason I chose M3 was that I see some sub 30k m3 (08-09) these days and I have heard that 335i is painfully unreliable with their HPFP and other bits which make M3 more reliable (surprisingly). I can't simply afford a RS5 and all I need is a bit of power than A5 3.2 or 2.0T or BMW 328i.

Reliability would be one of more important factors. I wouldn't mind dropping few grands here and there very occasionally but seems like 335i would drain my bank account in no time according to the owners. It's good to hear that both V8 and 3.0T are reliable! I am aware of carbon buildup problems. Cleaning up once in few years won't be too much an issue. Heard it's around 7 hour job??

The thing about reliability is that my wife's 09 Volvo S80 T6 has been rock solid ever since new but it's not fun driving one at all. Plus Mini Cooper's are so unreliable I can't count how many times I had to take my wife's car to work and she complained a lot.

Still deciding but I am most likely going to buy one of those two within this month. It's such a hard choice to make even though they are not really a direct competitor each other!!

Thanks for all the replies so far

[Jimmy ny]

Would not buy a early m3. Very unreliable. Higher mileage cars also will have stretched rod bolts. 25k to fix the motor V8 S5 is slow. Get 3.0 car and tune or save for RS5 used.


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[LINDW4LL]

That's nonsense- they are, by and large, very reliable vehicles.

[dawgcatching]

I did drive the old S5 V8 when shopping: the newer V6 is a much better engine. The old V8 was kinda like the M3's torque curve, not as much HP. I preferred it as a daily driver to the M3 (both 2010's) as you really had to get the M3 screaming.

Can't compare on the newer M3 vs S5 (see my thread above, same question!)

[8T_BoCO]

For me, a clutch is required part of the overall driving experience, so in this case the S5.
In my town, I have great independent VAG shops, but no independent BMW shops. I tend to stay away from dealerhips for service, but I've never purchased new.

[Atmmac]

I think the point about not needing AWD seals the deal. M3 is the better car in terms of performance and the price reflects it. If you are choosing between two cars with the same options the M3 should be your top choice. I love the interior in my S5 more than the interior of the BMW but the M3 is no slouch in this department either. If your going to go for the S5 get the V8. I had the V6T in my cab and the V8 is better in every aspect (minus the cheap gains via tune). The V6T sounds like a riced out Honda. Gas is cheap now too so no reason not to do it.

[Beast]

S5 vs M3 id go with the m3

[Brava]

M3 , no question about it vs any S5.

That was a great machine, I still miss it today. Yet I love more my RS5. ...

[ParadigmTony]

M3! V8 S5 is a turd. 3.0t? No brainer, but I suspect that there not in comparable price ranges right now. I should be fair to the v8. If your not into tuning and performance, the v8 is a great motor. Sounds good, makes some torque, and well sounds good. Still 10/10 would buy M3 over S5 (B8)

[snig]

Would not buy a early m3. Very unreliable. Higher mileage cars also will have stretched rod bolts. 25k to fix the motor V8 S5 is slow. Get 3.0 car and tune or save for RS5 used.


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140k miles on my early build 2008 E90 M3 6MT. Rock solid, most reliable car I have ever owned.

[lyleswk]

That's true. AWD isn't really necessary in Pacific Northwest due to lack of snow and moreover my wife has a Volvo S80 AWD which can confidently perform in the heavy rain/snow if needed.

My contention is Audi "quattro" was and still is more for handling performance versus snow / rain traction. Just look at some of the videos out there comparing quattro to BMW xdrive, Mercedes 4matic, etc. True, it is good in the snow, but my Benz 4 matic is better. Put 2 equal cars on the track, one with quattro and the other rear drive, the quattro will win if it is driven correctly. That's why it is illegal in anything but prototype classes.

As far as which one to go with, they are very different cars. The "M" is more of a sports car (have driven it), the S5 is more of a GT, so they are very different cars in character and horsepower. Haven't driven the RS5, but option it with the sport diff and I suspect it will give any M4 a run.

Just thought I would throw some gas on the fire.

[mikefine]

I currently drive my rs5 daily and had the 3.0 in my s4, Although the RS turns more heads and makes more noise and is just a beauty, for some reason i am more inclined to say i liked the 3.0 more. Albiet the 4.2 in the RS is differnt than the S5, for me, the RS just doesnt have any low end torque and feels sluggish until you hit 4.5k rpm (after which its a fucking monster). the 3.0 was super reliable, much better on gas, just a capable (if tuned) and sounded great if the right pipes were fitted to it.

with that being said, id go for the 3.0 s5

[LINDW4LL]

My contention is Audi "quattro" was and still is more for handling performance versus snow / rain traction. Put 2 equal cars on the track, one with quattro and the other rear drive, the quattro will win if it is driven correctly. That's why it is illegal in anything but prototype classes.

Just thought I would throw some gas on the fire.

I'm not sure if there is a simple black and white answer to this as all wheel drive systems are becoming more advanced and dynamic, especially with many of the hybrid power solutions as of late- but here are my thoughts. AWD is beneficial off the line and at very low speeds, but once you get up to speed, the benefits are outweighed by the increased drivetrain loss and additional weight of the AWD system. Traction is not usually an issue with quality tires on RWD cars, either.

Don't you think most sports cars would be AWD if it provided that much of a dry performance advantage over RWD?

[Exvett13]

I have had both; a 2013 six speed m3 and now a 2015 S5. The six speed M3 was difficult to live with on a day to day basis. The engine is cankerous when cold, it burps, stumbles and farts for the fist few minutes. The six speed is very stiff in first and second gear when cold . I'm talking cold here in North Carolina, where it never really gets cold. I was always worried that I was bending the internal shift forks. Also, I had a rear flat tire on my way to Florida (remember there is no spare on an M3 do to different size front and rear tires, and the tires are not run flats) I nursed it to my home in Florida by stopping at every gas station and inflating the damaged tire. (it had a big chunk of aluminum buried in it). The car sat in my yard on a jack stand for three weeks because there were no matching tires available in the USA. I sold the car shortly after. My S5 is such a pleasure; the seven speed DCT does everything right; I'm a very happy camper now. Also, the M3 has a serious drinking problem, 14MPG around town, never better then 21-22 on the road (running between gas stations for air; see above) I could go on and on about how much nicer the S5 is then the M3. AND THE S5 HAS A SPARE TIRE---WHAT A CONCEPT!! The low end torque is great; the engine is always ready to go; the M3 can't spit past its chin below 4 or 5K RPM. The new six cylinder M3 may be different as I have no experience with it. I lost enough money on my E92 M3 so I'm ready to try one again.
Trust the man that's been there.

[doug97gxe]

M3

[jwr9152]

Think you answered your question with your first post. You drove them both and liked the S5 better. I don't think you can really go wrong between an M3, V8 S5, or V6 S5. All are great cars with their pluses and minuses.

[ians]

I have had both; a 2013 six speed m3 and now a 2015 S5. The six speed M3 was difficult to live with on a day to day basis. The engine is cankerous when cold, it burps, stumbles and farts for the fist few minutes. The six speed is very stiff in first and second gear when cold . I'm talking cold here in North Carolina, where it never really gets cold. I was always worried that I was bending the internal shift forks. Also, I had a rear flat tire on my way to Florida (remember there is no spare on an M3 do to different size front and rear tires, and the tires are not run flats) I nursed it to my home in Florida by stopping at every gas station and inflating the damaged tire. (it had a big chunk of aluminum buried in it). The car sat in my yard on a jack stand for three weeks because there were no matching tires available in the USA. I sold the car shortly after. My S5 is such a pleasure; the seven speed DCT does everything right; I'm a very happy camper now. Also, the M3 has a serious drinking problem, 14MPG around town, never better then 21-22 on the road (running between gas stations for air; see above) I could go on and on about how much nicer the S5 is then the M3. AND THE S5 HAS A SPARE TIRE---WHAT A CONCEPT!! The low end torque is great; the engine is always ready to go; the M3 can't spit past its chin below 4 or 5K RPM. The new six cylinder M3 may be different as I have no experience with it. I lost enough money on my E92 M3 so I'm ready to try one again.
Trust the man that's been there.

Very agree on how notchy the BMW MT is! I dun have a M3 but I have a 08 335i 6MT (90k km) and a 13 3.0T S5 6MT(35k km). The 6MT on the S5 is as good as honda MT but the 335i MT is as horrible as any other bmw that I have before. And yes, during cold weather, I always afraid I am going to break the linkage when shifting on bmw! As of the twin turbo bmw, it sure have low end torque but when driving back & forth with the 3.0 supercharge, the twin turbo drive like a very fast civic with turbo snap in that without any refinement at all! Well, maybe is not too far to compare two cars when one is 5 years newer

[lyleswk]

Don't you think most sports cars would be AWD if it provided that much of a dry performance advantage over RWD?

Agree they are more complex and heavier...and more expensive which is why a lot of manufacturers don't offer them for street cars. I also believe that you have to drive pretty aggressively to feel the difference. But, the record the Audi quattros had in the late 80 and early 90s in IMSA and Sports Car racing definitely shows the advantages on the track..and then they were outlawed until the hybrids. The fact that the recent hybrids are AWD is more about packaging, i.e. the rears are driven by the gas / diesel engine and the fronts by the electric motors.

Having said all that, I bought the S5 for the combination of drivability, is nice to know the quattro is there in whatever conditions, the fact that it had a nice shifting 6 speed, was a GT (didn't rattle my teeth out), and is one of the best looking cars on the road.

[rfcpatrick09]

I have decided to go with a V8 S5. Wish I could afford 3.0t but in my price range, I can find a nice V8 example with low miles.
Also, since I have given up on M3 (due to its practicality and higher cost of maintenance compared to S5), I'd still like to have the NA V8 under the hood.

I would most likely get a 6 speed one. I hear some clutch issues? That they only last 30-40k miles. That's unacceptable unless there's a TSB or recall on it that it has flaws in its design!

[jwr9152]

Great, hope you enjoy it. I love mine.

[ENV²]

Would not buy a early m3. Very unreliable. Higher mileage cars also will have stretched rod bolts. 25k to fix the motor V8 S5 is slow. Get 3.0 car and tune or save for RS5 used.


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25k to fix bolts? LOL not even close. I know a guy that replaced all bolts with ARP bolts. Way cheaper than that. Supercharge the M and damn you got a beast. I was looking at those too but then went with the AMG cause ... cause..... Cause its a sledgehammer.

[rfcpatrick09]

Yeah I think I've heard that 4.0 V8 M3 engine costs about 13-15k including labor so 25k seems a lot. But then there are Porsche owners who drive their 996 and 997.1 knowing that IMS problems might and might not happen, without a warning, could face a 10k+ bill for a new engine, still drive their cars just fine. I mean if there were significant flaws that will affect most of the cars, it will be a recall/extended warranty (for example, I've heard E92 335i and other cars with that 3.0 twin turbo got an extended warranty on HPFP up to 100k miles or something cause it was basically going to happen on each one of them).

I would like to get a C63 AMG one day but I like the style of coupes and since it's just me and my wife, need for a back seat isn't an issue. C63 AMG coupe is definitely out of my price range.

I mean I won't take cars to track, I just like to have a mild performance car that can be driven daily so I guess my purpose of looking at E92 M3 was wrong to start with. I was thinking of 08 or 09 Jaguar XKR as well but gave up on it just knowing that I would definitely miss driving a stick shift. I remember test driving my friend's B7 A4 2.0T and that 6 speed was going into gears like butter but very solid feeling too. I am not too keen on BMW's stick shift but M-DCT was pretty impressive that made me think that it could actually be as fun as driving a stick.

Well, thanks for all your input. If anyone can chime in for the clutch issues (if there are any) or common issues with S5 V8s, please enlighten me. I am looking at few cars (getting 09+ since I don't feel comfortable buying the first year models) ranging from 20k miles to 70k miles, mostly around 50k miles all under $30k. Any issues around that mileage that anyone know of?

Thank you!

[bknewtype]

I love the pre fl v8 s5. used to have one, and I miss it from time to time. interior is gorgeous, exhaust note ( with a proper system) is music to the ears. but with that said, I think I would go with the e92 m3. that is pretty much my favorite bmw to date. aggressive looks, nice exhaust, good power, and "decent" interior.