B7 s4 Oil Change Interval

[eslatts11]

Hello all,

Just looking to get some advice on how often to change the oil in my b7 s4. I've read anywhere from 3k to 5k miles, no definite answers. I put Motul X-cess 5w40 (link) from JHM in about 3k miles ago.

Thanks for any input!

[Crispy Waffle]

Intervals should never be longer than 5k miles for our cars. With that being said, it depends heavily on your driving style and driving situation (city vs highway). If you've got a heavy foot and do a lot of stop and go city traffic, you may consider doing shorter intervals. If you are a casual driver with the occasional heavy foot syndrome, then you can go until 5k.

I usually do mine at the 5k mark or a couple hundred miles before I hit that milestone.

[FulhamFTW]

Intervals should never be longer than 5k miles for our cars. With that being said, it depends heavily on your driving style and driving situation (city vs highway). If you've got a heavy foot and do a lot of stop and go city traffic, you may consider doing shorter intervals. If you are a casual driver with the occasional heavy foot syndrome, then you can go until 5k.

I usually do mine at the 5k mark or a couple hundred miles before I hit that milestone.

False. Plenty of people have had oil analysis done that show they could go 10k beofre changing. The 3k intervals come from the years where we didn't have the full synthetic oils we have today. OP, If you're really concerned, contact Blackstone Labs and have an oil analysis done. It will give you a good idea of what shape your engine is in and what interval you should be using based on the type of oil you use. Is DParm still around? Care to chime in?

[thierryfabrice1]

5k is where I usually do mine!

[thierryfabrice1]

False. Plenty of people have had oil analysis done that show they could go 10k beofre changing. The 3k intervals come from the years where we didn't have the full synthetic oils we have today. OP, If you're really concerned, contact Blackstone Labs and have an oil analysis done. It will give you a good idea of what shape your engine is in and what interval you should be using based on the type of oil you use. Is DParm still around? Care to chime in?

not sure If it has anything to do but i also have a 2007 S4 and strange the only time i haven't done my oil i ended up with a broken guide and also pieces got thru the oil pump filter and jammed my oil pump resulting on a broken oil pump shaft as well. so long story short cleaner oil is always better for the engine.

[Sickws6]

take the dip stick out and lick it; if it taste sweet your good if sour then change it.

[FulhamFTW]

not sure If it has anything to do but i also have a 2007 S4 and strange the only time i haven't done my oil i ended up with a broken guide and also pieces got thru the oil pump filter and jammed my oil pump resulting on a broken oil pump shaft as well. so long story short cleaner oil is always better for the engine.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but to say that it has to been done at 5k or less or else is just not correct. Every engine is different. I'm not saying that I go 10k every change either, but it's definitely 5-7k for me and has been for the 70k+ and three years I've owned my car. It's a B7 with 138k, running like a top. 3k intervals is completely unecessary.

[Crispy Waffle]

False. Plenty of people have had oil analysis done that show they could go 10k beofre changing. The 3k intervals come from the years where we didn't have the full synthetic oils we have today. OP, If you're really concerned, contact Blackstone Labs and have an oil analysis done. It will give you a good idea of what shape your engine is in and what interval you should be using based on the type of oil you use. Is DParm still around? Care to chime in?

I would love to see oil from our engines after 10k of heavy stop and go traffic, driven by someone that goes WOT at every light.

Any car can go 10k miles with full synthetic, that's true, but I would rather change mine every 5k miles and not have to deal with the consequences of doing 10k intervals. Might be overkill, but for me it is more about peace of mind. Especially for our cars that we know are finicky with what type of oil you use.

[FulhamFTW]

I would love to see oil from our engines after 10k of heavy stop and go traffic, driven by someone that goes WOT at every light.

Any car can go 10k miles with full synthetic, that's true, but I would rather change mine every 5k miles and not have to deal with the consequences of doing 10k intervals. Might be overkill, but for me it is more about peace of mind. Especially for our cars that we know are finicky with what type of oil you use.

I totally agree. I didn't mean he should be careless and do 10k at a minimum every single time. I just meant that he shouldn't be paranoid if he misses the 5k mark.

[Slow4]

I'm pretty sure the manual states every 10 but I do mine every 5-6k


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[xhackerekx]

I change mine every 3k .

[SprintBlueWorld]

I've noticed a pretty steady pattern. Oil level stays steady for the first 3000 miles. By the time 4000 hits im down a quart and I refill with what I have left from the last oil change. By the time 5000 hits im down a half quart again and I am able to change the oil without it trying to overflow onto the floor.

[0396]

I try to get my S4's oil changed between 7 and 9 k miles. I also have the oil filter change every time too in addition to a qt of Swepco oil improver with moly. Oil used is Mobile 0-40 , currently has 94 k on the clock and still running like the first day I bought it new in 2004.

[eslatts11]

Thanks for all the input guys. The best answer is, there is no right answer!

Options:

1) Pay for a oil analysis

2) Base it on driving style

3) Lick the dip stick... lol

I've noticed a pretty steady pattern. Oil level stays steady for the first 3000 miles. By the time 4000 hits im down a quart and I refill with what I have left from the last oil change. By the time 5000 hits im down a half quart again and I am able to change the oil without it trying to overflow onto the floor.

Is this a good test for the actual condition of the oil? I would assume this is just regular maintenance to always be at that 9.5 quart level.

[ryanhmusic]

take the dip stick out and lick it; if it taste sweet your good if sour then change it.

this. deeply rooted in science I promise.

[DarrenOman]

For me it depends on the car mileage. under 100,000 I do 7k, over 100,000 miles I drop down to 5k. With that said I use Km at the moment and stick to 5k km. Its just easier to remember on the odometer

[Mr. Corey]

I've never gone longer than 3k on an oil change but i'm OCD about my car. Yeah you might be able do a longer intervals but these engines can be expensive to replace/ keep healthy so why risk it..... Just went 1k on my recent rebuild and waiting results from Blackstone

[GaretS4]

I found this interesting site that provides useful information on automotive oil, including for the European manufactures. The section on oil consumption factors really got my attention. The other thing that a learned is about the SAPPs levels in oils. SAPPs have to do with the additives in the oil related to engine protection such as reducing acidity, increasing protection to wear surfaces, and detergents for internal engine cleaning. Low SAPPs oils were introduced to help extend the life of the emission control systems and from what I gather, more specifically to the catalytic converters. Correct me if I'm not right, but the higher SAPPs rated oils have more of the additives that provide wear protection to an engine, but come at the expense of the catalytic converter life. With our engines I presume that one would always want to use an oil with the highest SAPPs rating in order to protect the engine. In my opinion, it's far cheaper to replace a catalytic converter than deal with excessive engine wear. In my searching I have not been able to find any information on what the SAPPs levels are for north american manufactured oils, though Amsoil's site does list the SAPPs levels for their European spec oils. Has anyone seen specific SAPPs ratings for other oils? It appears that there are many things to consider when choosing an oil for our cars.

http://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

Garet

[SprintBlueWorld]

I am no expert, but it seems to me most of the enthusiasts here go for the 5k mile oil change. Audi spec is 10k, but idk anyone using that anymore. Used to be an oil expert on here Dparm. He never seemed to take a shine to anything I had to say, but then again I knew less about my car back then. In any case I believe he said prevailing lab studies of oil in our cars showed that the oil in general did not begin to break down and lose it's lubricating properties til 6 or 7k miles. That is in general though and depends on how you drive your car.

Most guys on here suggest not taking the car over 3k rpm until the car is completely warmed up, about 5 minutes after the temp gage steadys with normal driving. For the record I use Motul Excess 5w-40 and I try to keep it full to the dot. As said by others these engines are expensive, non rebuildable, very difficult to replace, and it will behoove you to keep a good eye on your oil level.

[komseh]

Oil is not something to spend hours salivating over. Pick an oil that meets Audis spec for your car, is easy to get, and is cheap. Mobil 1 0-40 is a really good choice in the US. Change it every 5k miles. Thats it don't spend another thought on it.

[Silver Streakin]

Only way to know is http://m.blackstone-labs.com/

FWIW, I use Liqui Moly 5w40 for its first change by me. PO used M1 0w40, and I had to add a full qt of it over the 4k after his 1k. I'm now 3k+ into the LM and only added some of the 1/2 qt leftover to get back to full topped off. I actually got the max oil light a few days later at a cold start or 2, and then stopped.

[Sickws6]

Oil is not something to spend hours salivating over. Pick an oil that meets Audis spec for your car, is easy to get, and is cheap. Mobil 1 0-40 is a really good choice in the US. Change it every 5k miles. Thats it don't spend another thought on it.

Oil is the #1 most important maintenance item in order to sustain your engine, it is the lifeline for your engine.

[thierryfabrice1]

Correct me if I am wrong but I was reading somewhere a while ago that oil alone doesnt break down but the oil filter start losing its filtering capabilities around 5k (or early depending on driving style) and I believe it is the reason most of ppl do it around 5k

[GaretS4]

If you are really serious about wanting to know more about oils I strongly suggest taking a thorough read of the site I posted a link to above. Oil can and does break down and loose it's lubricating abilities. It can shear under extreme load and pressure, it can became contaminated with combustion by-products, acids, and internal engine metals that wear. It also gets diluted with fuel and water and and it can vaporize. An engine oil analysis can tell you specifically what parts of an engine are wearing as each internal engine part has it's own unique metal composition. It can also tell you how what contaminants are in the oil such as water, fuel, acids, anti-freeze, and silicon (such as from sand). Regarding this last contaminant and cylinder scoring, I wonder if a person's choice of air filter, not changing it frequently enough, or even idling or running without an air filter could be contributing to the problem. It only takes a few bits of fine dirt or sand in the combustion chamber to cause a scratch. When I see pics of a deep vertical scratch on a cylinder wall it makes me wonder. Many of the oiled air filters that promise increased air flow do it at the expense of filtering ability, despite what they claim. On page 279 of the owner's manual there is a reference to changing the oil more frequently in dusty areas. Stuff does make it's way past the air filter.

I switched over to synthetic oils back in 1993 and was laughed at for throwing my money away. For the record, I usually keep my vehicles a long time and the engines, including a supercharged one, are going strong long after the rest of the car needs attention. From what I am reading on the forum and from my short time with this car, I can see that these engines can get pushed pretty hard what with high revs, high acceleration loads, and high speeds; all which push an oil's capabilities to the max. For comparison, my 96 SL500 has an engine similar to the S4's, having a sleeveless aluminum block and a power band in the mid to upper rev range. Oil consumption is minimal when cruising and at low revs. But push it hard and combustion pressure and temp goes up, oil thins out as temps go up, and consumption goes up.
The POs of my 05 S4 didn't put a lot of miles on the car which is currently sitting at 35K miles. They used either Total Quarts MC3 5W-30 or Castrol Edge SPT 0W-30 and changed the oil between 2 and 5 thousand miles. The oil and filter were changed in the S4 just prior to my purchase and in the 750 miles since, the oil level has not moved on the dipstick - it's at the very top of the metal area - labeled "a" on the dipstick as shown on page 278 of the owner's manual. After reading all the issues with oil consumption and wear with these engines I'm feeling pretty fortunate at this point in time. IMHO use a good quality synthetic oil with the correct rating (ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4) and filter, change it more frequently, and change your air filter. It will pay off in the long run.
I'll get off my soap box now! Garet

[Slow4]

high revs, high acceleration loads, and high speeds; all which push an oil's capabilities to the max. For comparison, my 96 SL500 has an engine similar to the S4's, having a sleeveless aluminum block and a power band in the mid to upper rev range. Oil consumption is minimal when cruising and at low revs. But push it hard and combustion pressure and temp goes up, oil thins out as temps go up, and consumption goes up.

Thank you for reaffirming this thought!!! I came to a similar conclusion when I reflected back and thought hmmm

@3000rpms at 70/75mph for 30miles is comparable to 1-2000rpms at >25mph in stop/go traffic in terms of oil consumption.

In English, the more your engine goes through stop/go motion or continuous high rev output, the more it consumes...people thought I was talking crazy or I didn't know what I was talking about.

There's more to oil consumption than just scored cylinders; +1 for you Sir!


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[eslatts11]

Wow, looked into the Blackstone Labs and its only $28 (plus shipping?) to get the standard oil test done. They'll send you the oil collecting kit for free, send it back and just pay for the results.

Probably the best / least amount of money to invest for the life of your engine. And they are in Ft. Wayne, IN... score!

+1 FulhamFTW

[Silver Streakin]

Wow, looked into the Blackstone Labs and its only $28 (plus shipping?) to get the standard oil test done. They'll send you the oil collecting kit for free, send it back and just pay for the results.

Probably the best / least amount of money to invest for the life of your engine. And they are in Ft. Wayne, IN... score!

+1 FulhamFTW

Also add the $10 TBN analysis test. This will help tell you how much additives are left to determine how much longer the oil can still be used.

[mark_ma]

i do every 5k miles
only because i live in colorado where the altitude is 5280ft, shy over 5000ft

ex.
if i lived in an area where altitude is around 4110ft, then i'll change it every 4k miles

just as Sickws6... taste is everything too
its like milk, if it taste good then your milk is good, keep on drinking that milk.
if its sour, get your self a new gallon of milk
... just dont get cheap steroid feed hormoned cow milk.
get some good milk, i like organic goat milk, a lot of flavor, love it

hope that analogy worked

[FWP!]

every 3k-5k miles with my RS4. Take care of these engines and they'll last a long, long time.

[GaretS4]

In doing a bit of searching throughout the various forums I've came across some posts of owners running their car without the air cleaner installed. In one case it was a B5 owner racing a BMW in what looked to be a desert location. Don't do this. This is only looking for trouble. The few extra HP you may pick up isn't worth the risk it puts your engine at.
Garet

[hkdolphins]

My one is 117K, I did oil change every 5K with Motul 8100X and I can tell the different after oil changed everytime. Did anyone tried any engine cleaner, like Motul - ENGINE CLEAN AUTO?

[GaretS4]

Very good observation hkdolphins; your seat of the pants meter is right on.

As per information found at the site that I provided a link to above, the smaller chain oil molecules are the first to get past the rings, valve seals, and get volatilized and out the crank case vent and you are left with the longer chain and therefore more viscous molecules in the crankcase, that in turn provides more internal friction. Also additives such as friction modifiers and acid fighters get used up as the oil is consumed and the oil gets diluted with fuel, water and acids which reduce the oils lubricating ability. So if you are down a quart of oil just before an oil change, it would be like using a heavier weight oil with a bunch of harmful waste product in it. I would think that at that point, your engine is actually down less than a quart of oil because of the non-oil contaminants in it.

Also, if there is a change in the brand of oil or it's weight, you may also notice a change due to subtleties in additives and viscosity. Page 275 of the owner's manual for my 05 S4 says that the car was delivered with 0W-30 weight oil, but if it's not available you could also use 5W-30 of 5W-40. I suspect that the 0W-30 helps Audi achieve a slightly higher fuel milage rating than if they put in the 5W-40 for the fuel milage evaluations. If you want to increase your fuel economy put in the lightest weight oil and be prepared to top it up regularly. Although an oil's weight is not the only factor contributing to lubricating ability I would think that if you drive in a very hot climate and drive your car hard you would want to use a 5W-40. One last thing, Page 278 of the manual instructs the driver to keep the oil in the "a" range near the top of the dipstick oil level markings, but just below the plastic end piece when doing long distance driving in the summer, or when towing a trailer, or driving in the mountains. I would add when driving your car hard. It only makes sense to keep your oil refreshed by topping it up regularly as opposed to midway through an oil change.

So it only makes sense that after a fresh oil change, if the engine now has the proper weight oil in it, has the correct amount of additives, and it's not suffering from the diluting effect of water and acids, your engine should run smoother and rev quicker.

Wait - I think I can hear my engine singing after it's recent oil change.

[komseh]

Oil is the #1 most important maintenance item in order to sustain your engine, it is the lifeline for your engine.

Yes that is well known. My point is oil choice is not that serious. Get an oil that is readily available and meets Audi/VW spec for your car. As long as you stick to a 5-7k OCI you will be fine. Companies that sell oil change kits for Audis would have you believe the HIGH QUALITY GERMAN LUBRICANTS are required for your motor to run properly. This is far from the truth and has been verified by myself and others by comparing oil analysis lab results. An oil like Mobil 1 0w40 european spec performs just as well if not better than lubromoly or motul or rotella t6. I've tried every high end oil from the german companies and the mobil 1 does just as well in my RS4.

[Sickws6]

Yes that is well known. My point is oil choice is not that serious. Get an oil that is readily available and meets Audi/VW spec for your car. As long as you stick to a 5-7k OCI you will be fine. Companies that sell oil change kits for Audis would have you believe the HIGH QUALITY GERMAN LUBRICANTS are required for your motor to run properly. This is far from the truth and has been verified by myself and others by comparing oil analysis lab results. An oil like Mobil 1 0w40 european spec performs just as well if not better than lubromoly or motul or rotella t6. I've tried every high end oil from the german companies and the mobil 1 does just as well in my RS4.

I agree with that! Oil is oil to me.

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[GaretS4]

I agree with komseuh. The key here is to use an oil that meets the specs for your car. For the S4, it is ACEA A3/B3 or A3/B4. The A corresponds to gasoline engines and the B to diesels, so oils with this designation can be used with either type of engine. The A3 designation is high SAPPs which are highly fortified with the necessary (and costly) additives that ensure your engine is protected.

The ACEA guidelines for A3 oils state:
"Stable, stay-in grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and car and light van diesel engines and/or for extended drain interval where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer."

I would think that if there ever was a high performance gasoline engine, these cars got em! And do folks put them under severe operating conditions? You betcha. I reviewed the oil labels at one of the local auto parts stores and oils with an A3 designation are not that common. I should mention that all manufacturers were not present on the shelves, but I confirmed that Mobil 1's European Formula 0W-40, Castrol's European Formula Edge SPT 0W-30 and 0W-40, and Amsoil's European Car Formula Full SAPPS 0W-40 and Full SAPPS 5W-40 fit the bill. I am sure there are a few others out there, but were not sold by this chain.

One last comment on getting your "specialty" oil from the dealership. It's a great marketing tactic for them to sell a manufacturer branded oil that offers "exclusivity" and higher profit margins, though at the expense of the customer. Who wouldn't what to leave the dealership with the nice warm fuzzy feeling that you're giving your car the best treatment possible. Most auto manufacturers do this. For those owners who don't have the time and inclination to learn further about what their car needs, the dealer will make sure that the correct oil goes into the engine. For the rest of us who take the time to read the owners manual, do our homework on what the different specs are, and mean, it's money in our pocket. And if we change the oil ourselves, only the better.

So if you think Audi or Volkswagen is pushing their specialty imported European oils, take a read of what the owner's manual of my 96 Mercedes SL500 says.
"Vehicle components and their respective lubricants must match. Therefore use only brands tested and recommended by us. Inquire at your authorized Mercedes-Benz dealer. Engine oils are specifically tested for their suitability in our engines. Information on recommended brands is available at your authorized Mercedes-Benz dealer."
Nowhere in the manual nor on the car itself, not even on the engine's oil filler cap, is there any information about what grade or type of oil to use in the engine? I have no info on what M-B provides in their current owner's manuals.

[GaretS4]

My list of oils meeting the S4's requirements is rather short at this time. I just edited my posting above to add Castrol's European Formula SPT 0W-40 to the list as I missed seeing it on my last visit to the store. If anyone can add to the list please feel free to do so. I should mention that I live in a rural location in northwest Canada with limited access to the specialty European made oils, so am not familiar with them. The nearest Audi dealership, or independent foreign car repair shop, is about 2 hours away.