Dual mass flywheel or single w/ 350+ hp

[KHARDa4]

What clutch do you guys recommend for that hp that won't break the bank? I would like to retain the stock feel as much as possible but be able to hold the power I'm going to put through it. Should I keep the dmfw to retain the stock feel? I'm kind of in uncharted territory for me. Any help is always appreciated.

[B6A4Dave]

https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4...o-1.8t/ES5486/

[KHARDa4]

https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4...o-1.8t/ES5486/

That link says b5 a4, are they interchangeable?

[redline380]

yes, they are. And I also recommend that one. My RA4 even with the s4 disc holds up to 280awtq

[KHARDa4]

Well I'm going for upwards of 380 to 400. If I can retain the dmfw and source a pressure plate and disc that's what I'd like to do if possible. I'm aiming for the numbers Doug posted with the f25 kit fully built.

[Audi 4 Life]

+1 JHM kit

[KHARDa4]

https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catal...8t-p-1231.html

[KHARDa4]

I searched and this is what I found for the jhm kit. I read through it a few times and I didn't see which stage handles the power output I'm going for.

[KHARDa4]

Has anyone kept their DMFW with a upgraded pressure plate and disc? Is the dmfw going to rob that much power?

[Audi 4 Life]

The JHM kit uses a RS4 clutch and you can upgrade the disc if you want so it feels OEM with the b7 RS4 pressure plate and with oem disc handles stock B7 RS4 power range which is more than your car. And if you need more just upgrade the disc and your set. JHM has the best setup IMHO. The LWFW is quality and easily rebuilt and have little to no NVH depending on your driving style.

[redline380]

Have you driven a car that has a single mass flywheel? It is not really difficult, and you don't lose any "feel". There is not much difference between my modified car and my stock car. There is no reason to keep the DMFW.

I like the RA4 kit because I have it, Im sure the JHM one is just fine. What I like about those kits is the use of OE clutches.

[SJorge3442]

I don't think the stock flywheels could even come close to holding the power you're looking for. You would blow out the bushings in the flywheel in a matter of no time. Also, the flywheel limits you to your clutch disc size. Go with a smfw and call it a day. You wont notice much difference.

[Boost_creep]

I'm not sure if the Audi dmfw is much different than other car manufacturers, but I've been running 420whp in my mazdaspeed for over 2 years, with the stock dmfw. I just run and upgraded disc and pressure plate. Just figured I would throw that out there.

[redline380]

The DMFW will hold up, plenty of people have ran aftermarket clutches on them. But what I do not like about the stock flywheel is the limited OEM upgrade options. There none! That is why swapping to a 240mm flywheel is a good idea. Not a ton of options, but there are more than one. And I like OEM clutches. I have seen too many issues with aftermarket stuff failing before 20k miles to waste money on them. And of course this depends on your power level, but OP is well within the limits of an OEM clutch option.

[SJorge3442]

The DMFW will hold up, plenty of people have ran aftermarket clutches on them. But what I do not like about the stock flywheel is the limited OEM upgrade options. There none! That is why swapping to a 240mm flywheel is a good idea. Not a ton of options, but there are more than one. And I like OEM clutches. I have seen too many issues with aftermarket stuff failing before 20k miles to waste money on them. And of course this depends on your power level, but OP is well within the limits of an OEM clutch option.

well damn. The more you know. Since I never built a car for power, I would have assumed the limited disc options for the stock flywheel is where the limit would be. Clearly with a larger clamping area and a larger disc will hold more power, but it will come at the cost of smoothness.

[redline380]

well damn. The more you know. Since I never built a car for power, I would have assumed the limited disc options for the stock flywheel is where the limit would be. Clearly with a larger clamping area and a larger disc will hold more power, but it will come at the cost of smoothness.

There are a ton of options for the stock flywheel, but they are all aftermarket.

If you were local, I'd let you drive my car with a s4 disc. It is not bad at all. Maybe try to find someone locally with a b5 s4? Some people do complain about running the LWFW because of chatter, yet I have not noticed a bit of it at all.

[eljay]

The Valeo SMF conversion kit is always a popular suggestion, so I'm just wondering if that is an option for this application or is the Valeo kit simply a replacement for a stock clutch that is getting worn out with stock 1.8T power levels. In other words, can it handle this type of power too?
Sorry, I'm newb and I hope this contributes to the thread. If I'm diverging, just tell me and ignore it.

This is the kit I'm referring to: https://www.ecstuning.com/News/Audi_..._Kit/ES251027/

[redline380]

The valeo unit is more of a replacement than an upgrade, although I believe MetalMan was throwing frankenturbo power at it for a while or still is.

[KHARDa4]

Have you driven a car that has a single mass flywheel? It is not really difficult, and you don't lose any "feel". There is not much difference between my modified car and my stock car. There is no reason to keep the DMFW.

I like the RA4 kit because I have it, Im sure the JHM one is just fine. What I like about those kits is the use of OE clutches.

No I haven't. I've just read about people complaining about clutch chatter due to the smfw.

[KHARDa4]

This might sound like an "a hole" move but I would like to save some money where I could. 1k for a clutch kit is what I'm trying to avoid if possible. If I'm in danger of breaking the dmfw when upgrading the disc and pressure plate with that hp, I would source and expensive kit if I had to. I won't lunch the car, just some hard driving and downshifting.

[KHARDa4]

I also will be selling my k04-015 turbo if anyone is interested in that runs great still on the car. It hasn't been tuned very long maybe 6 months.

[blitz2190]

No I haven't. I've just read about people complaining about clutch chatter due to the smfw.

singel mass or lightweight? there is a difference. The single mass is the same weight (or close too) as the oem dual mass. the one most hear or feel chatter on is the light weight flywheel. I personally have a valeo single mass on my 1.8t and it shifts very smooth with no chatter. It is the oem replacement one that won't hold your power but the HD one might. Also the grab and engagement has more at play then size. Clutch material and design will play bigger factors ie organic vs kevlar, full face vs puck, sprung vs unsprung etc. As another example I'm running the fx300 (thought it was the 350 till i went back and checked) in my stage 3 2.7t and it engages very smooth but thats due to the design, full faced segmented Kevlar with sprung center, on a lightweight flywheel(no chatter noticeable but its a V6).

[onceover]

Ran a Clutchmasters FX400 kit with the stock DMFW for about 30k miles before it started slipping. Now I'm spending extra money on the RA4 clutch kit from ECS (which is essentially the same as the JHM kit). Buy nice or buy twice.

[KHARDa4]

Ok thanks guys. Spoke with jhm and he assured me their stage 1 clutch would be more than enough to handle my needs I think I'll go with them. He did make me kinda nervous when he said the 5 speed trans is weak and he was breaking them with stock turbo tuned with apr. So I hope he's wrong :(

[demonmk2]

It's not weak. Just be careful not to slam second into third. May want to purchase a flow control valve.
They can handle that power i

[KHARDa4]

It's not weak. Just be careful not to slam second into third. May want to purchase a flow control valve.
They can handle that power i

What us a flow control valve?

[demonmk2]

It goes in the line to the master cylinder in the transmission.
It uses "jets" to control the return flow in the line on engagement, basically softens the engagement so you will not damage the transmission where most likely the damage would accure.
You need to find Mhood on the boards. He can tell you oodles of info that can help with your setup.

[imnuts]

The LWFW is quality and easily rebuilt and have little to no NVH depending on your driving style.

That may be true on the V6, but the 1.8T, there will probably be noticeable chatter unless one is running a Fluid Dampr as the engine is inherently less balanced to start and a heavier flywheel helps to absorb some of those vibrations.

[redline380]

That may be true on the V6, but the 1.8T, there will probably be noticeable chatter unless one is running a Fluid Dampr as the engine is inherently less balanced to start and a heavier flywheel helps to absorb some of those vibrations.

Why do people give advice based on anecdotal thoughts?

I have not experienced any chatter on my 1.8t using the 13lbs ECS flywheel.

[A4SoftWalker]

Other's experience may vary but here is mine. There was a Huge thread on this year's ago with M-HOOD and all the other O-G's on here. I'm not gonna dig it up but; short story, the consensus was the LWFW has 2 distinct possible noises/effects.
1) Chatter - sort of a rattling-clacking noise from the gearbox at idle. Particularly pronounced with AC on.
2) Shudder - a clutch engagment vibration sometimes but not always accompanied by noise from the flywheel-clutch interface.

I had BOTH gearbox chatter and drivetrain shudder with my factory dampner, engine setup, and 16lb Spec billet flywheel.

After my rebuild with FluidDampr, spun-balanced flywheel-clutch, and lighter balanced rotating assembly I have only a tiny double-wiggle of shudder upon clutch engagment with no noise.
Chatter is non-existent.

[imnuts]

Why do people give advice based on anecdotal thoughts?

I have not experienced any chatter on my 1.8t using the 13lbs ECS flywheel.

Because there have been far more posts about people with 1.8Ts that install a lightweight flywheel and experience increased NVH than those that don't. While it is possible to not have any negative side effects, it typically requires additional work and/or parts.

Sent from my Nexus 6

[Audi 4 Life]

It is kinda a good point but is here say, I think it all depends on the driver because all drivers are different. Some are more sensitive to how a car feels depending on your knowledge and experience to know what feelings and noises come from what parts. Some people are completely oblivious to things other people would not be able to stand.

That being said there have been numerous threads on this already and the JHM kit is hands down better than any other kit available. nobody can argue otherwise that a S4 clutch is better than a RS4 clutch. While the ECS kit may be good the JHM is better. Buy the JHM kit/ End thread lol

[redline380]

I like how you say all that and the JHM flywheel is 9 lbs, my ECS one is 13. If either of them will chatter, it would be the JHM one first.

The fact is either one will work just dandy. But they aren't the same. JHM uses b7 rs4 PP, ECS uses b5 s4/rs4 PP. JHM uses some sort of disc (it doesn't list a supplier) ECS uses OEM. And the ECS one is cheaper and I can buy replacement clutches for $150 for a b5 s4 clutch.

[demonmk2]

I have a billet lwfw it only seems to chatter in the winter\cold months but nothing bad

[texasboy21]

The 11lbs ECS flywheel sold in the RAX kits most definitely adds chatter and NVH, especially with the AC on.

[redline380]

The 11lbs ECS flywheel sold in the RAX kits most definitely adds chatter and NVH, especially with the AC on.

Wow, didn't know I get chatter. Thanks for the heads up.










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[Audi 4 Life]

I thought the JHM flywheel was 14 lbs, or is that just for the 3.0 ? and the one for the 1.8 is 9 lbs?? JHM uses Luk disc for there basic OE B7 RS4 clutch kit but give the option to upgrade to stage whatever you want. And I'm pretty sure B7 RS4 clutch is still better than any B5 S4/RS4 OEM clutch and I'm pretty sure the B5 uses those plastic springs on the pressure plate and B7 is metal, as JHM advertises this on there web page. So the clutch is better and the flywheel is better. And the disc is cheap as well not sure what they go for but they are cheap, and the JHM flywheel is good for life its rebuild able for like 90$ you can get a new disc with hardware. IMO JHM is better but of course to each his own.

[diztek]

Which ever one that doesn't chatter.