Successfully Disabled ANC on B&O - Amp and Subwoofer Install - DIY

[S6Express]

I had installed an amp and single 12" sub box in the trunk of my B&O S6 months ago by tapping the sub wires and using an LC2i line output converter (LOC) and was not able to use it because the noise canceling system (ANC) was creating a horrible bass buzz.

After trying different LOCs and tapping different sources I decided I had hit a dead end and the only logical next step was to disable ANC. There are two ways to do this - either by VAGCOM or disconnecting the four microphones in the cabin. I have no idea how to disable via VAG COM, so I tried to disconnect the mics.

They are very visible in the headliner of the cabin, so one thought was to get my hand in there and cut the wires, but I was reluctant to do such a thing considering the difficulty it would be to reconnect them. The other option was to disconnect them at the B&O module. SubterFUSE came to the rescue for me last night with the B&O wiring diagram which shows the 4 pairs of wires that are the four microphones going into the wring harness on the B&O system. Once I located the harness it was just a matter of counting pins and pulling the correct ones from the harness. The harness is actually very easy to take apart and with a sharp pointed object the pins slide right out and are easily slid back into place.

I pulled out the mic pins, re-inserted the harness, then listened for the annoying buzz. It's gone! No more buzz, and the system now sounds great. Took all of 15 minutes because I had never removed pins from a harness. If I get tired of the sub and amp or it's time to sell the car, the DIY is easily reversible back to stock and ANC is once again active.

Speaking of ANC, I was concerned that I would notice it not being active. I honestly can't tell the difference with it on and off. I tested various conditions this morning on the way to work while city and highway driving and I can't tell any different from before except one condition. On the highway in D mode I can now hear that the car sounds a little different when it goes into 4 cylinder mode. It's not annoying and the car could have easily come like that from factory and I don't think anyone would be complaining.

So there you have it. ANC is defeatable on B&O when adding an aftermarket sub and amp. The new sub just makes the B&O come to life - it really does. The B&O sub would distort when playing music loudly. Pics below:

The harness you want is the 32 pin harness with the orange latch:


The harness pulled out:


The four pairs that need to be pulled:


Everything back in with a view of the LC2i:


A big thanks to subterFUSE for the wiring diagram, without that I would've been reluctantly cutting wires.

[BlueSVT]

Awesome!

Do you not find the subwoofer signal is terribly suppressed?

Can you take a picture of your LC2i adjustment settings for me so I can compare? Also, what is your factory Bass setting now?

My JL setup now plays steady notes decent, but has NO thump... And inconciseten to volume levels throughout the range of the stereo.

When using the stock stereo volume, the sub is:
Way too loud from 0-16
16-22 sounds great
22+ the B&O way overpowers the sub


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[doug97gxe]

Awesome!

Do you not find the subwoofer signal is terribly suppressed?

Can you take a picture of your LC2i adjustment settings for me so I can compare? Also, what is your factory Bass setting now?

My JL setup now plays steady notes decent, but has NO thump... And inconciseten to volume levels throughout the range of the stereo.

When using the stock stereo volume, the sub is:
Way too loud from 0-16
16-22 sounds great
22+ the B&O way overpowers the sub


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What Sub and Amp are you using?

I know we have different setups but for me i have my Factory Bass Setting at 1/2 .. depending on the recording my remote Sub adjustment dances between 1/4 to 1/2 .. no matter how low my radio is or how high my radio is the sub is pretty consistent ..

Amp: Rainbow DM 2000
Sub: Image Dynamics IDMax 10 D2

[S6Express]

Awesome!

Do you not find the subwoofer signal is terribly suppressed?

Can you take a picture of your LC2i adjustment settings for me so I can compare? Also, what is your factory Bass setting now?

My JL setup now plays steady notes decent, but has NO thump... And inconciseten to volume levels throughout the range of the stereo.

When using the stock stereo volume, the sub is:
Way too loud from 0-16
16-22 sounds great
22+ the B&O way overpowers the sub


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Both my amp gain and my bass setting on the LC2i are set at about 50%. I have an LC-1 control knob mounted by my driver's seat and that let's me control the gain from 0-100% I install one in every single system. My bass setting on the MMI is almost one or two notches from full bass.

[subterFUSE]

Speaking of ANC, I was concerned that I would notice it not being active. I honestly can't tell the difference with it on and off. I tested various conditions this morning on the way to work while city and highway driving and I can't tell any different from before except one condition. On the highway in D mode I can now hear that the car sounds a little different when it goes into 4 cylinder mode. It's not annoying and the car could have easily come like that from factory and I don't think anyone would be complaining.

I have always said that ANC does essentially nothing. It's a gimmick feature that far too much effort was wasted on for such minimal results. ;)

I'm on my 3rd stereo system reincarnation in my S6, and never once have I noticed anything with the ANC.

[subterFUSE]

My JL setup now plays steady notes decent, but has NO thump...

"Punch" actually comes from the midbass, not the subs. That's why I just put a pair of 10" midbass in my kick panels.

And inconciseten to volume levels throughout the range of the stereo.

When using the stock stereo volume, the sub is:
Way too loud from 0-16
16-22 sounds great
22+ the B&O way overpowers the sub

This is one of the downsides to using a line converter instead of a DSP with a separate volume controller. The OEM stereo system has it's own DSP which is designed to alter EQ setting s based on volume. By using the OEM volume control, you are altering the inputs to the line converter and the amplifiers downstream.



The "correct" way to integrate is to use a full DSP unit that has a volume controller. The factory volume knob is set at full volume and left there. The stereo volume is then adjusted from the DSP volume controller.
This ensures the DSP is fed a constant signal that does not change, with the highest signal to noise ratio possible.

[BlueSVT]

"Punch" actually comes from the midbass, not the subs. That's why I just put a pair of 10" midbass in my kick panels.





This is one of the downsides to using a line converter instead of a DSP with a separate volume controller. The OEM stereo system has it's own DSP which is designed to alter EQ setting s based on volume. By using the OEM volume control, you are altering the inputs to the line converter and the amplifiers downstream.



The "correct" way to integrate is to use a full DSP unit that has a volume controller. The factory volume knob is set at full volume and left there. The stereo volume is then adjusted from the DSP volume controller.
This ensures the DSP is fed a constant signal that does not change, with the highest signal to noise ratio possible.

Understand... I've just done this on so many other vehicles and they always sounded great! Sucks that it's a bit less than I was hoping on the B&O system. I guess there's just too much damn processing going on.

Going to really spend some time tuning and trying some different settings over the next few days, and see what I can come up with.


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[subterFUSE]

Understand... I've just done this on so many other vehicles and they always sounded great! Sucks that it's a bit less than I was hoping on the B&O system. I guess there's just too much damn processing going on.

Going to really spend some time tuning and trying some different settings over the next few days, and see what I can come up with.


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It's also possible that the factory DSP has time alignment and/or inverted polarity on the sub output. That could cause cancellations in the crossover region and cut down on the output. Could be another possible explanation for no thump.

Have you attempted reversing the subwoofer +/- leads to the line converter? See if that improves the bass response.


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[doug97gxe]

It's also possible that the factory DSP has time alignment and/or inverted polarity on the sub output. That could cause cancellations in the crossover region and cut down on the output. Could be another possible explanation for no thump.

Have you attempted reversing the subwoofer +/- leads to the line converter? See if that improves the bass response.


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excellent point.. maybe there is a phase setting on the amp or LOC that's causing this.. one thing you will also notice if the phase is out of wack is the bass hits will be delayed and out of sync

[S6Express]

Awesome!

Do you not find the subwoofer signal is terribly suppressed?

Can you take a picture of your LC2i adjustment settings for me so I can compare? Also, what is your factory Bass setting now?

My JL setup now plays steady notes decent, but has NO thump... And inconciseten to volume levels throughout the range of the stereo.

When using the stock stereo volume, the sub is:
Way too loud from 0-16
16-22 sounds great
22+ the B&O way overpowers the sub


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I'm not experiencing any of this. I'll take a photo of my tapped wires and my settings for you.

[subterFUSE]

My JL setup now plays steady notes decent, but has NO thump... And inconciseten to volume levels throughout the range of the stereo.

When using the stock stereo volume, the sub is:
Way too loud from 0-16
16-22 sounds great
22+ the B&O way overpowers the sub


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which wires did you tap for the line converter?

How did you set the gains?


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[S6Express]

Looks like he tapped Brown and Red/Black



LC2i Settings:



Amp Gain is set at about 60% and Frequency is set about midway as well.

[BlueSVT]

Those LC2i settings don't make any sense to me? Per the instructions, the "Main" gain level is the first knob you turn up, with all else turned down... Until you see the "Maximized" light flash... Then you turn up the bass knob until Max flashes again, and lastly AccuBass gets turned up when experiencing cutout at high volumes.

Subterfuse brought up a good point and I was thinking that EXACT thing just yesterday morning... Need to try reversing the polarity of the incoming source to the LC2i!! This could be it!

I'm traveling out of town for 3 days, but this will be the first thing I try when I get back.

To clarify, when I say no punch, I mean NO thump or kick whatsoever... As in, 100% absent. Just plays the steady bass notes and will NOT thump regardless if there's even aggressive drum kick pedal, hip hop beats, etc. Major weak sauce.

Hope this solves the issue. That being said, could this also be the reason I'm NOT getting the noise cancelling HUMMMM.... And once I correct the polarity I'll then have that issue to deal with? Hmmmmm... Making more sense!


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[subterFUSE]

Makes me so happy I have the mObridge. ;)

[BlueSVT]

Switched the lead... Noticeable improvement! Now I will spend time actually tuning it more. Prior to this I didn't want to even waste my time as I was debating pulling it out!


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[subterFUSE]

Switched the lead... Noticeable improvement! Now I will spend time actually tuning it more. Prior to this I didn't want to even waste my time as I was debating pulling it out!


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Ha! I'm 2 for 2!

[hubris]

So just to be clear, we absolutely do need an L2Ci? I read another thread mentioning it may not be necessary on the B&O? Also what if the amp accepts high level inputs, do you still need L2Ci?

[BlueSVT]

Not sure, but at this point I can't say adding just a subwoofer is a significant improvement worth messing with... But I do need to spend more time tuning the system before I can say for sure.

Have done this in many vehicles, this one by far is the least impressive improvement... Partly due to the fact the interior speakers with the B&O are SO GOOD, and do the midrange bass and highs so incredibly well.


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[subterFUSE]

So just to be clear, we absolutely do need an L2Ci? I read another thread mentioning it may not be necessary on the B&O? Also what if the amp accepts high level inputs, do you still need L2Ci?

If the amp accepts high level inputs, then no line converter is needed. That's what a line converter does, convert high level to low level.


You could also use a DSP, since most of those also have high level converters inside. But, if you're going to do a DSP then that means you're probably replacing the whole stereo and at that point the mObridge DA1 becomes a no-brainer. It solves all of the issues and gives a clean, optical digital output from the MMI.

[BlueSVT]

Would love to find somebody who's good at tuning sub woofer systems in LA... I'm sure they're out there, just not sure where to look. Guess I could try an audio shop, but half those guys are clueless!

I can make it sound OK, but I know that somebody with experience tuning these setups could likely make it sound great. SubterFUSE, any recommendation for a starting point on the low-pass filter frequency?

[subterFUSE]

SubterFUSE, any recommendation for a starting point on the low-pass filter frequency?

Which amplifier are you running. It will help me to know what kind of controls you have available... i.e. crossover freq, slopes, phase control and/or switch, etc....

[BlueSVT]

Which amplifier are you running. It will help me to know what kind of controls you have available... i.e. crossover freq, slopes, phase control and/or switch, etc....

I bought the JL PowerWedge Max, which is a all-in-one box built with the sub and amp together with the custom made box.

The amp that's included is: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-wwmxzcr...o-JX250-1.html

The sub is: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-UyYukVk...io-12WXv2.html

Here's the package from JL's site: http://www.jlaudio.com/pwm112-jxwxv2...-systems-93249

Most user reviews on JL, Crutchfield, and Amazon for this setup are all 5-star with nothing but great feedback as to the output, response, etc. From my past history with similar JL products, I know this box has potential... just need to get this set up right!

So that box, with the LC2i, and the remote gain knob as well.

[subterFUSE]

So I looked up that amp's photo online. It has a standard gain control, crossover frequency control, and a bass boost control.

I assume you have already set the amp gain? That should be done with the stereo system volume at maximum undistorted level. My Bose could go to about 28/34 before distorting.
Then your gain on the line converter needs to be set according to the instructions supplied. The amp gain is last, and JL Audio has instructions on setting the gains for their amps with a multimeter.

Next comes the crossover. A good general place to start would be 80Hz. I tend to run my subwoofer crossover much lower than that (55Hz as of today), but I also have 10" midbass speakers up front with 250W going to each. ;)

You will want to have someone adjust the crossover knob while you listen to some music that you are familiar with and has good bass material. Try adjusting the crossover knob to a higher point and pay attention to the sound. If it begins to get too fat sounding and muddy, then reduce the crossover point to where it sounds good, clean and precise.

I see that your amp does not have a phase switch, so you'll need to do some testing with the subwoofer polarity. Start with the sub wired in normal polarity. Adjust the crossover to where it sounds good. Then, turn off the system and swap the speaker wires to the sub. Put positive to negative and negative to positive. Then listen again, making no changes from before. (Same crossover, same volume) Does the bass sound louder or quieter than before? Whichever speaker wire polarity yields the loudest bass is the one to use. This means your subs are "in phase" with the midbass speakers.

You don't have a DSP so you won't have access to fine-tuning features like EQ and time alignment. So what I described above with flipping polarity by swapping the wire leads is going to be your best option.

[BlueSVT]

So I looked up that amp's photo online. It has a standard gain control, crossover frequency control, and a bass boost control.

I assume you have already set the amp gain? That's the first step. That should be done with the stereo system volume at maximum undistorted level. My Bose could go to about 28/34 before distorting.
Then your gain on the line converter needs to be set according to the instructions supplied. The amp gain is last, and JL Audio has instructions on setting the gains for their amps with a multimeter.

Next comes the crossover. A good general place to start would be 80Hz. I tend to run my subwoofer crossover much lower than that (55Hz as of today), but I also have 10" midbass speakers up front with 250W going to each. ;)

You will want to have someone adjust the crossover knob while you listen to some music that you are familiar with and has good bass material. Try adjusting the crossover knob to a higher point and pay attention to the sound. If it begins to get too fat sounding and muddy, then reduce the crossover point to where it sounds good, clean and precise.

I see that your amp does not have a phase switch, so you'll need to do some testing with the subwoofer polarity. Start with the sub wired in normal polarity. Adjust the crossover to where it sounds good. Then, turn off the system and swap the speaker wires to the sub. Put positive to negative and negative to positive. Then listen again, making no changes from before. (Same crossover, same volume) Does the bass sound louder or quieter than before? Whichever speaker wire polarity yields the loudest bass is the one to use. This means your subs are "in phase" with the midbass speakers.

You don't have a DSP so you won't have access to fine-tuning features like EQ and time alignment. So what I described above with flipping polarity by swapping the wire leads is going to be your best option.

Thank you! Will go through this process tonight.

[BlueSVT]

Well, I can say that I'm FINALLY satisfied with the install, and the sound of the system now... Thanks to all of you that provided input, and SubterFUSE for some more detailed tuning suggestions.

Nice balance now, with proper "thump" when it's called for... but not too aggressive overall, really compliments the B&O setup well now. All in all, a pretty outstanding system, haven't heard many aftermarket systems that sound any more balanced or clean than this now!

Now I can move on with my life, LOL.

[subterFUSE]

Here is another really good option for people adding a subwoofer, or aftermarket audio.

JL Audio just released their new OEM Integration piece.

http://www.ceoutlook.com/2015/10/27/...-in-ten-years/

[hubris]

Here is another really good option for people adding a subwoofer, or aftermarket audio.

JL Audio just released their new OEM Integration piece.

http://www.ceoutlook.com/2015/10/27/...-in-ten-years/

So that replaces the LC2i? What does this add to the system? I did not realize there were timing issues as it currently stood. And pressing a button every time a call comes in?!

[subterFUSE]

So that replaces the LC2i?

Yes, it's an alternative to the LC2i.

What does this add to the system?

It can undo the processing that the OEM system applies to the signal. EQ, time alignment, phase...

I did not realize there were timing issues as it currently stood.

Yes there is time alignment, massive EQ and phase inversions in the OEM system. It's a mess, actually.



The better option is still the Mobridge DA1, but the JL Audio FiX is a nice alternative for those not interested is going that route.


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[doug97gxe]

Here is another really good option for people adding a subwoofer, or aftermarket audio.

JL Audio just released their new OEM Integration piece.

http://www.ceoutlook.com/2015/10/27/...-in-ten-years/

Does anyone have this? i just bought this to replace my PAC

[hubris]

Yes there is time alignment, massive EQ and phase inversions in the OEM system. It's a mess, actually.

The better option is still the Mobridge DA1, but the JL Audio FiX is a nice alternative for those not interested is going that route.


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What about the Audison bit DMI instead of the mObridge DA1?

[subterFUSE]

What about the Audison bit DMI instead of the mObridge DA1?

They are the same thing. The Bit DMI is just a repackaged DA1. You can even load the DA1 firmware on the DMI.

Personally, I'd rather have the DA1 because the support is better.


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[subterFUSE]

Does anyone have this? i just bought this to replace my PAC

The JL Audio FIX is the best line conversion device on the market. It can work with OEM audio systems that have time alignment and factory EQ. It will "fix" those features.

The Mobridge is still better if your car is compatible with it, but the JL FIX is the next best choice after that.


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[doug97gxe]

The JL Audio FIX is the best line conversion device on the market. It can work with OEM audio systems that have time alignment and factory EQ. It will "fix" those features.

The Mobridge is still better if your car is compatible with it, but the JL FIX is the next best choice after that.


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I'm excited now .. Thanks again for posting this .. I really only need it for a sub so I figured the fix would do the job


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[subterFUSE]

I'm excited now .. Thanks again for posting this .. I really only need it for a sub so I figured the fix would do the job


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Yes, the Mobridge is only a solution for upgrading the whole stereo. It disables the OEM amplifier completely.

If you are only looking to add a subwoofer, then you need a line converter like the Audio Control LC2i, LC7i or the JL Audio FIX.

The FIX is like a "smart" LC7i.


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[doug97gxe]

Yes, the Mobridge is only a solution for upgrading the whole stereo. It disables the OEM amplifier completely.

If you are only looking to add a subwoofer, then you need a line converter like the Audio Control LC2i, LC7i or the JL Audio FIX.

The FIX is like a "smart" LC7i.


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I currently have the PAC but it's not clean and I feel it could be so much better so I decided to get the Fix


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[subterFUSE]

I currently have the PAC but it's not clean and I feel it could be so much better so I decided to get the Fix


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I just purchased a 2012 S63 AMG as a 2nd car. The Mobridge won't work in it so I'm going to use the FIX.


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[doug97gxe]

I just purchased a 2012 S63 AMG as a 2nd car. The Mobridge won't work in it so I'm going to use the FIX.


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That's a sweet ride .. What speaker setup do you have planned?


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[subterFUSE]

That's a sweet ride .. What speaker setup do you have planned?


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2 x Morel Hybrid Integra 402 coaxials 4"
2 x Morel Elate 9" midbass
1 x Acoustic Elegance SBP15 subwoofer 15"

Will be running 7 amplifiers, most likely. I've got 4 x Sinfoni 60.1HD mono amps already. Those will run the Morel Integras, fully active (2 amps per speaker). Then I will probably get a pair of Sinfoni Tempo Presto amps for the midbass, and a Tempo Grave for the sub.

Helix DSP Pro on the processing.
Will likely have a JL Audio FiX82 in front of the Helix Pro. Won't know for sure if we need it until I test the Harmon Kardon outputs.
Also going to remove the Mercedes CD Changer and install the new Sony RSX-GS9 head unit.

[DB22]

Audi really screwed up on the car audio. To pay $6000 for a stereo and have to throw more money at it to get it to sound good is a rip. I think that you would be better off not buying a car with a stereo, saving the $6000, buying after-market for $5000 and going on a road trip while listening to a great stereo with the $1000 you saved.

[subterFUSE]

Audi really screwed up on the car audio. To pay $6000 for a stereo and have to throw more money at it to get it to sound good is a rip. I think that you would be better off not buying a car with a stereo, saving the $6000, buying after-market for $5000 and going on a road trip while listening to a great stereo with the $1000 you saved.

It's not just limited to Audi. Every factory car stereo is terrible. Even the Burmester on an S65 AMG.