Stage 1 vs Stage 2 - actual discussion on risk/cost/benefit

[torinalth]

So my 15 S4 can go faster, and I'm debating between APR and unitronic (in the hopes uniconnect will eventually come out).

That aside I've come to a bit of a quandary regarding stage 1 vs stage 2. Everyone seems to say go stage 2 off the bat and not to bother with stage 1. If DSG or if you do not care about warranty I can see that. But for a manual car, wanting to keep warranty, and my daily driver that will never see the track?

But here is the list of concerns I see with stage 2:
Clutch will give out faster due to extra torque over stage 1
gain is MUCH less on stage 2 vs stage 1 calling into question the value vs improvement. See info below.
Pulley recognition. Most look similar to stock but do they actually look identical? even then a tech COULD measure the size and see a difference.

The real hangup is mostly the extra cost and extra risk. Yes yes, pay to play, but in general I'd rather not run the risk. That aside, the numbers seem not worth it for the extra cost.

APR
Stock 93 – 285/294
Stage 1 93 – 368/337
Cost: $1300.
Increase over stock 29.1%/14.6%
Stage 2 93 – 383/353
Cost +550 +install (around 200) + reflesh fee ~50.
Increase over Stage 1: 4%/4.7% Increase over Stock: 34.3%/19.7%

GIAC - based on AWE dyno graphs
Stock 91 – 288/282
Stock 93 – 299/295
Stage 1 91 – 359/314
Cost 1200.
Increase over stock 24.6%/11.3%
Stage 2 93 – 381/339
Cost 895 + install (200)
Incresase over stock 27.4%/14.9%
didnt see a 93 Stage 1 so didnt do a vs stage 1 increase

Unitronic – Estimated stock based on dyno graph. Note numbers are generated crank from wheel dyno according to unitronic. Delta should still be usable though.
Stock 93 – 350/340
Stage 1 93 – 417/365
Cost: 1200
Increase over stock – 19.14%/7.3%
Stage 2 93 – 451/388
Cost 1600 + install (unsure if there is an upgrade price that is less)
Increase over stock – 28.8%/14.1% Increase over Stage 1 – 8.1%/6.3%

EPL
Stock 92– 317/329
Stage 1 92 – 358/366
Cost – 1200 I think it was for tune, cable, and software?
Increase over stock – 12.9%/11.2%


Granted that all numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt, but even still the increase in general with stage 2 seems much less than what the extra cost and risk seem to account for.

For a Daily Driver and manual car that I wish to keep on warranty I'm just not seeing the benefit of stage 2. What else am I missing? Anything actual? I've read all the posts bout its just faster, more torque, more whine, etc. but I'm just not seeing it especially when I have to consider a clutch change being sooner which will not be cheap at all. Does anyone else have actual numbers to alter consideration? I get that everyone keeps saying just do it..... so what else am I missing here? I really am looking for something more than "just go stage 2"

[rota92]

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET PULLED BY THE PIZZA BOY IN HIS TUNED 335 I SUGGEST YOU SKIP RIGHT TO STEP 3

/audizine



(Same boat as you, do not think I'll touch Stage 2, I'd rather put the money into suspension which is what this car needs FAR more than extra HP)

[zcspec]

I am in the same boat as you, but with a 2015 AR. Glad you posted some analytical figures as that is EXACTLY what I would have done. At the end of the day, I figured what was most important to me: my AR with only 5K miles, with a warranty that extends to 72K miles. That being said, Stage 2 (which requires hardware upgrades, IC, HFC, DP) this would INSTANTLY deem me TD1 and void my $3500 "Pure" warranty the moment I drive into the service bay. Stage 1 however, is 100% removable and at this time of print, "untraceable" according to APR. The only hassle, having to get down to my APR dealer to have it unflashed, then reflashed. For my AR, Stage 1 to Stage 2 differences is very much like your S4 with Stage 2 making less of an impact.

To help you decided, ask yourself what is most important...higher power figures and higher cost of Stage 2, or acceptable power and warranty coverage if stage Stage 1. Just remember, there will ALWAYS be a car faster than yours. You just have to know when to put the foot down on expenses and be happy with those choices.

[Dudemans4]

I see these at least one post a week pertaining to this topic.
Epl does flash from home and flash back to stock with no td1
A guy just got his 15k service no td1 check out the Epl thread

[AZT]

I have a 2015 as well with Stage 1 APR and found a way to get Stage 2 power for free, so I'm sticking with the stock pulley for now. If you have access to E85, add enough at fill-up to make at least an E30 concentration (there are calculators online). I did the logging and measured about a 15 lb-ft torque gain starting from low in the range - similar to a pulley. The timing advances significantly (like a race tune). I can only make that claim if you have a B8.5 with APR 93 though since that is all I have tested.

[torinalth]

I am in the same boat as you, but with a 2015 AR. Glad you posted some analytical figures as that is EXACTLY what I would have done. At the end of the day, I figured what was most important to me: my AR with only 5K miles, with a warranty that extends to 72K miles. That being said, Stage 2 (which requires hardware upgrades, IC, HFC, DP) this would INSTANTLY deem me TD1 and void my $3500 "Pure" warranty the moment I drive into the service bay. Stage 1 however, is 100% removable and at this time of print, "untraceable" according to APR. The only hassle, having to get down to my APR dealer to have it unflashed, then reflashed. For my AR, Stage 1 to Stage 2 differences is very much like your S4 with Stage 2 making less of an impact.

To help you decided, ask yourself what is most important...higher power figures and higher cost of Stage 2, or acceptable power and warranty coverage if stage Stage 1. Just remember, there will ALWAYS be a car faster than yours. You just have to know when to put the foot down on expenses and be happy with those choices.

You are correct. I'll never beat my friends vette, and my other friend who is looking at a focus RS will probably stomp me due to sheer weight difference let alone tunability. That is the mentality I have been working with in general, but was trying to discern if there are other factors I'm missing to alter the mentality.

I see these at least one post a week pertaining to this topic.
Epl does flash from home and flash back to stock with no td1
A guy just got his 15k service no td1 check out the Epl thread

Yes, and I'm sorry to make another but all of the others have been simple "Go Stage 2, win!" or devolved into a brand war. I've mostly discounted EPL for a couple of reasons. 1 - I do not have real numbers to go on except for the one "independent stage 1" thread a while back that Tony posted. 2 - while the flash at home is nice, if there was ever a problem I'd be mostly on my own. Yes you can call Tony, but if it can't be fixed over the phone, you are screwed. with APR and Unitronic I have shops that I can legitimately get direct help with or tow the car to if worst comes to worst. Also Tony seems to be moderately overwhelmed and understaffed. While I can appreciate his dedication to the platform and I'm sure his ability I'd need to at least be able to compare it to the others properly for stage 1 and 2 and secondly feel a bit more assured that I'd be able to rely on them from a distance.

I have a 2015 as well with Stage 1 APR and found a way to get Stage 2 power for free, so I'm sticking with the stock pulley for now. If you have access to E85, add enough at fill-up to make at least an E30 concentration (there are calculators online). I did the logging and measured about a 15 lb-ft torque gain starting from low in the range - similar to a pulley. The timing advances significantly (like a race tune). I can only make that claim if you have a B8.5 with APR 93 though since that is all I have tested.

That is really interesting. I do not have E85 here, but could always use octane booster (not ideal, but a possibility for short term needs). and yes 8.5 and considering the APR 93.... interesting prospect indeed. so the 93 file has more headroom and just needs the extra octane to overcome the inherent limitations of the 93 octane in the event that higher is available. So.... in essence E10 (which I do hvae a lot of around here) would allow for more power? Interesting thought. Alternately I have a sunoco a little ways away that I could see if they have a higher octane than 93 available.

THAT is indeed a welcome notation. I really enjoy watching your changes and reports, always informative. Curiously, how high does the improvements go in the RPM before it becomes negligible? I had also forgotten the ability of stage 1 100 tune as well from APR, and be able to add tune switching..... hmm Thank you for the reminder and info AZT

[creativecody]

I am in the same boat as you, but with a 2015 AR. Glad you posted some analytical figures as that is EXACTLY what I would have done. At the end of the day, I figured what was most important to me: my AR with only 5K miles, with a warranty that extends to 72K miles. That being said, Stage 2 (which requires hardware upgrades, IC, HFC, DP) this would INSTANTLY deem me TD1 and void my $3500 "Pure" warranty the moment I drive into the service bay. Stage 1 however, is 100% removable and at this time of print, "untraceable" according to APR. The only hassle, having to get down to my APR dealer to have it unflashed, then reflashed. For my AR, Stage 1 to Stage 2 differences is very much like your S4 with Stage 2 making less of an impact.

To help you decided, ask yourself what is most important...higher power figures and higher cost of Stage 2, or acceptable power and warranty coverage if stage Stage 1. Just remember, there will ALWAYS be a car faster than yours. You just have to know when to put the foot down on expenses and be happy with those choices.

Stage 2 does NOT require IC, HFC or DP. Stage 2 isn't anymore likely to be discovered by Audi service tech. I've NEVER once heard of a tech measuring the pulley. They look identical and use the exact same belt. No matter if you have Stage 1 or 2 you'll still have to flash back to stock before visiting the dealer to avoid TD1. My thoughts on Stage 1 vs 2....I think there is a MUCH more noticeable difference in power in Stage 2 vs 1. Remember that most of the extra power in Stage 1 is in the upper RPM range while Stage 2 adds much more down low. For me, and probably most people.....I spend way more time in the lower RPM's and can take advantage of the Stage 2 power more often.

[AZT]

That is really interesting. I do not have E85 here, but could always use octane booster (not ideal, but a possibility for short term needs). and yes 8.5 and considering the APR 93.... interesting prospect indeed. so the 93 file has more headroom and just needs the extra octane to overcome the inherent limitations of the 93 octane in the event that higher is available. So.... in essence E10 (which I do hvae a lot of around here) would allow for more power? Interesting thought. Alternately I have a sunoco a little ways away that I could see if they have a higher octane than 93 available.

I think you could get mostly the same benefit mixing in race fuel (but at a higher cost). One extra benefit of E85 I don't see mentioned much is it adds more oxygen - almost like pumping a little more air in via boost but instead it's chemically injected in the ethanol. More oxygen, more fuel, more power - although the effect is probably minor compared to the octane boost.

And in my experience most of the gain with APR 93 on E30 is in the low-mid range (where you also really feel it on the butt dyno in daily driving). The top end also sees some gain but the APR 93 timing advance becomes a little less aggressive up there.

[TexasDfwS4]

Stage 2 does NOT require IC, HFC or DP. Stage 2 isn't anymore likely to be discovered by Audi service tech. I've NEVER once heard of a tech measuring the pulley. They look identical and use the exact same belt. No matter if you have Stage 1 or 2 you'll still have to flash back to stock before visiting the dealer to avoid TD1. My thoughts on Stage 1 vs 2....I think there is a MUCH more noticeable difference in power in Stage 2 vs 1. Remember that most of the extra power in Stage 1 is in the upper RPM range while Stage 2 adds much more down low. For me, and probably most people.....I spend way more time in the lower RPM's and can take advantage of the Stage 2 power more often.

+1. I like the power down in the lower range.

[Rez90]

I'm stage 1 and i'm going to install my updated tune and pulley saturday morning.

because fuck it.

[MrFunk]

I did stage 1 for a year before stage 2. I like to take my time and appreciate each mod. Some like to do everything before taking delivery of the car... LOL...
Stage 2 is superior to stage 1 in every way - and retains full driveability. I've had stage 2 over a year and my stock clutch is holding fine. It's slipped 0 times... reliability, driveability, blah blah - same as stage 1...

[ShlemonboostedM]

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET PULLED BY THE PIZZA BOY IN HIS TUNED 335 I SUGGEST YOU SKIP RIGHT TO STEP 3

/audizine



(Same boat as you, do not think I'll touch Stage 2, I'd rather put the money into suspension which is what this car needs FAR more than extra HP)

I see some one gets pulled by 335s daily .. It's ok you'll get used to it ;)

[KRp220]

i'm probably the minority here but i was quite pleased with stage 1. stage 2 certainly added some grunt, but i didn't feel that the jump between 1 and 2 was that significant (and my track times didn't show it either). with that being said, it seems that each car reacts a little differently

[golfinz]

Seems pretty straight forward in my book: if you are worried about losing your warranty (or the risk of losing it is too high), don't tune. If at the end of the day, you don't care about it being denied or void, then go straight to stage 2 if money allows.

[peekaBu]

just wondering if the OP made a decision on which tune to go with. I am currently in the same situation and am debating between the GIAC and APR stage 1 tune.

[torinalth]

Leaning APR, but still not 100% sold. I'd consider GIAC ,but no dealer even remotely close and same with Revo so I'm limited to EPL, APR, and unitronic. my APR dealer is Black Forest Industries and I have already had them do some work on my TT roadster and like the shop and the crew. Unitronic dealer is one i've not used so not completely sold, but apparently the owner know the entire tuning crew at Unitronic so there is that.... But to answer your question, no I have not made a final decision. In essence time and releases will decide for me. If uniconnect comes out I'll go unitronic. If uniconnect does not come out by the time I get my 15k mile service I'll be taking it to BFI to go APR. For me it's not who has the most power, but who will provide the best support for me. No matter what tune you get you will always be referred to the dealer, so that makes more of a difference than potential power for me.

[PitchS4]

I went with Stage 1 to save the clutch and while I love the idea of using all the boost the blower is making, I don't love the idea of spinning it faster. It is plenty of power for me. Not sure I will ever do Stage 2.

[pdqgp]

If anyone thinks going stage 1 only is going to keep you from being seen to have flashed the car or denied warranty I would say they are kidding themselves.

If you have a major breakdown Audi is going to require the dealer scan the car and report back. If they see multiple flashes on your car that is going to raise a flag and an ecu is going to eventually reveal more than just "hey I've been flashed"

I don't care much about it as the B8.5 is pretty solid. A minor BS issue like a wheel bearing or water pump or thermostat aren't something I would care about replacing under my own dime. I'll gladly trade that expense for the power and performance my car has.

Anything larger failing breaking is just a risk I am taking. Pay to play. However again the car platform is pretty solid.

I also LOL a little at anyone thinking they are going to run a full tank of E85 without issues. Especially long term. You are not going to achieve stage 2 results across the power band as safely. Just do the upgrade if you want more power. The difference IS there and side by side would be seen. Butt dynos are going only give you a sense for torque but not so much for the hp gains.

[BP11]

If anyone thinks going stage 1 only is going to keep you from being seen to have flashed the car or denied warranty I would say they are kidding themselves.

If you have a major breakdown Audi is going to require the dealer scan the car and report back. If they see multiple flashes on your car that is going to raise a flag and an ecu is going to eventually reveal more than just "hey I've been flashed"

I don't care much about it as the B8.5 is pretty solid. A minor BS issue like a wheel bearing or water pump or thermostat aren't something I would care about replacing under my own dime. I'll gladly trade that expense for the power and performance my car has.

Anything larger failing breaking is just a risk I am taking. Pay to play. However again the car platform is pretty solid.

I also LOL a little at anyone thinking they are going to run a full tank of E85 without issues. Especially long term. You are not going to achieve stage 2 results across the power band as safely. Just do the upgrade if you want more power. The difference IS there and side by side would be seen. Butt dynos are going only give you a sense for torque but not so much for the hp gains.

Nobody said anything about a full tank of e85. They're talking about mixing in 3-4 gallons per tank. I do this regularly and it definitely does have a significant increase.


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[LINDW4LL]

The real hangup is mostly the extra cost and extra risk. Yes yes, pay to play, but in general I'd rather not run the risk. That aside, the numbers seem not worth it for the extra cost.

My thoughts.

1) You're reducing your clutch life considerably in either case, specifically if you do any type of aggressive shifting or takeoffs/launches. Both are significantly upping the torque output when compared to stock. Stage 2 is only providing an 16ft-lb when compared to stage 1, so the minor increase in clutch wear that may exist from the small amount of additional torque is not a good reason to avoid Stage 2, in my opinion.

2) The risk difference between the two is negligible IMO. I don't think any Audi technicians are wasting their time measuring supercharger pulleys. With TD1, the highest risk of being flagged comes from the modified ECU software. It's something you need to accept the possibility of, despite it being extremely unlikely as long as you flash back to stock.

2) Stage 1 is a better "bang for your buck". No question about it. However, to most the extra $500 for the pulley (plus labor) to extract the extra gains are worth it for a car that's going to be enjoyed for tens-of-thousands of miles. It's not just the peak gains that matter, but a healthy increase across the entire powerband.


Here I've overlayed the Stage 2 gains on top of the Stage 1 gains throughout the powerband.

[Tony@EPL]

2 - while the flash at home is nice, if there was ever a problem I'd be mostly on my own. Yes you can call Tony, but if it can't be fixed over the phone, you are screwed. with APR and Unitronic I have shops that I can legitimately get direct help with or tow the car to if worst comes to worst.

We offer the same "recovery" tools to every customer that our dealers have access to as well. What does this mean?

If you did have issues while flashing, recovery would happen at home likely the same day or next business day. I see this as a HUGE plus. No need to pay someone to "fix" the car, nor would you have to wait for an appointment or get your car towed anyway. This literally could save you hundreds of dollars in the long run.

If the ecu does need to be removed and sent to CT for any reason, again your car is sitting inside, in your garage with no risk of damage or theft.

That being said, we have over 400 B8 or B8.5 flashes through the server at this point and not a single ecu has had to be removed from a car!

[torinalth]

Lindw4ll - that is a very well laid out response and the type I was hoping for. thank you for that, really is good information and appropriate presentation.

Tony - Strong argument. for direct comparison can you supply 93 octane dyno numbers on stock S1 and S2 flashes to add to the chart I have created? Second I remember one major difference was that you were housing a single ECU file (most current) for people in the event they flashed back to stock as opposed to sending the same one they previously had back down the line. Is this still the case? and finally APR does reset the flash counter on flash, and while I know you are adamant that it does not matter it does help appease the mind of the customer so has this been added? Regarding the pulley, I recall the CTS unit you used was silver and not anodized, is this still the case?

I really a trying to set up the best argument for both stage 1 vs stage 2 for both myself and for anyone else that will eventually bring this up later on. I appreciate all the useful (mostly) dialogue so far.

[jygesq]

where is ecu in b8.5 s4?

[Tony@EPL]

Tony - Strong argument. for direct comparison can you supply 93 octane dyno numbers on stock S1 and S2 flashes to add to the chart I have created?

We are working on getting a car in here for testing so we can provide this data to the public from the same car, on the same dyno on the same day. Currently we would be providing data from different cars and different days (which I guess is fine since that's what most of my competitors are doing currently).

Second I remember one major difference was that you were housing a single ECU file (most current) for people in the event they flashed back to stock as opposed to sending the same one they previously had back down the line. Is this still the case?

This is not the case and may have been the case for a VERY small period of time during BETA home flash releases.

The first step to our home flashing process is to use the tool to ID your ecu (in this picture trans ecu, but engine is also listed.. thanks matt for the picture).

and finally XXX does reset the flash counter on flash, and while I know you are adamant that it does not matter it does help appease the mind of the customer so has this been added?

1. Why would you want the flash counter at "0" if it should be a "3". Wouldnt that throw just as many flag as "3" vs "4"? We have yet to see any documentation that flash counter plays into the TD1 process. Regardless of this, we will eventually release functionality that will allow for editing of the flash counter.

Regarding the pulley, I recall the CTS unit you used was silver and not anodized, is this still the case?

Currently we ONLY stock black pulleys. Sliver are special order.

I really a trying to set up the best argument for both stage 1 vs stage 2 for both myself and for anyone else that will eventually bring this up later on. I appreciate all the useful (mostly) dialogue so far.

Great! Anytime.

[Tony@EPL]

where is ecu in b8.5 s4?

Drivers side rain tray.

[bhvrdr]

Lindw4ll - that is a very well laid out response and the type I was hoping for. thank you for that, really is good information and appropriate presentation.

Tony - Strong argument. for direct comparison can you supply 93 octane dyno numbers on stock S1 and S2 flashes to add to the chart I have created? Second I remember one major difference was that you were housing a single ECU file (most current) for people in the event they flashed back to stock as opposed to sending the same one they previously had back down the line. Is this still the case? and finally APR does reset the flash counter on flash, and while I know you are adamant that it does not matter it does help appease the mind of the customer so has this been added? Regarding the pulley, I recall the CTS unit you used was silver and not anodized, is this still the case?

I really a trying to set up the best argument for both stage 1 vs stage 2 for both myself and for anyone else that will eventually bring this up later on. I appreciate all the useful (mostly) dialogue so far.

Be advised that CTS does have a black pulley but it says "CTS" on it..



I would consider several other pulleys that I'm sure would work fine with the EPL tune (tony can comment on that). As an example I have an AWE one at home right now.

Tony thinks I hate him so won't engage him in constructive conversation, but as to his point that you would NOT want to have the flash counter flashed back to zero, he is absolutely correct. If I could offer a suggestion it would be to do what others are doing and image the CURRENT state of the flash counter from before the tune (in case Audi had flashed the vehicle previously for a software update or whatever) and the current workshop code of the last flash and the current flash date. I would image that OEM (pre-tune) flash information and have it returned when the user flashes back to the OEM program if possible. Just a helpful suggestion.

Mike

[pdqgp]

Nobody said anything about a full tank of e85. They're talking about mixing in 3-4 gallons per tank. I do this regularly and it definitely does have a significant increase.


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Okay. Not going changed the obtain tremendously but it will bump it up a few points. Not a replacement for what stage 2 delivers though. Personally I'm not one who would want to continually mix E85 without scanning the car to see the impact. Tunes for it accommodate for more than just obtain results.

[AZT]

Okay. Not going changed the obtain tremendously but it will bump it up a few points. Not a replacement for what stage 2 delivers though. Personally I'm not one who would want to continually mix E85 without scanning the car to see the impact. Tunes for it accommodate for more than just obtain results.

Audi already approves variable ethanol concentrations from E0 to E15, so E30 is not necessarily a stretch and works flawlessly for me. Fueling will automatically adjust with existing tunes. I agree it is good to scan and there is a limit you want to avoid (I think people doing E40-E50 have seen codes). Also your pump tune needs to be aggressive with its timing advance (must see alot of knock correction going on) otherwise there isn't much benefit to adding it. With APR I saw some pretty high correction at times on 93, and if anything I feel safer running an E85 mix when I saw the logs afterward.

[BP11]

Don't forget that EPL's stage 2 tune is e20 compatible...


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[torinalth]

We are working on getting a car in here for testing so we can provide this data to the public from the same car, on the same dyno on the same day. Currently we would be providing data from different cars and different days (which I guess is fine since that's what most of my competitors are doing currently).

Great, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

The first step to our home flashing process is to use the tool to ID your ecu (in this picture trans ecu, but engine is also listed..

Glad to hear that, This was a big concern for me

1. Why would you want the flash counter at "0" if it should be a "3". Wouldnt that throw just as many flag as "3" vs "4"? We have yet to see any documentation that flash counter plays into the TD1 process. Regardless of this, we will eventually release functionality that will allow for editing of the flash counter.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to set it to equal XXX number. but if I can reset to zero I can simply flash the ECU however many times needed to make it equal the same as what is supposed to be there. I'd take either, but yes I'd prefer to be able to set it to an exact number. Yes, I know your argument, I've gotten it in PM, and in several threads but while it may not be protocol nor part of the TD1 paperwork, some dealers are more friendly than others.... but ultimately why bother rolling the dice if you can eliminate all concern?

Be advised that CTS does have a black pulley but it says "CTS" on it..

whoa, I was NOT aware of that. thank you for the information. I know the APR unit is completely blank, so I'll have to look at the one thread (By AZT maybe?) to find the smaller sized pulley that is blank and start considering price vs size/look.

I would consider several other pulleys that I'm sure would work fine with the EPL tune (tony can comment on that). As an example I have an AWE one at home right now.

Mike

Thanks Mike. That is very valuable information.

Tony, can you weigh in on the use of other company pulleys? APR, GIAC/AWE, Unitronic, etc?

[rulaxin12]

You can do all the analysis you want and crunch numbers, but I recommend you go drive a stage 2 car. See if you notice enough of a difference to warrant the trade off. I like the analysis and logic....i feel this crowd eats that data up!

I went stg 1 first, then about 6 mos later went stg2. I would agree the stg 1 difference was big, but knowing there is more juice to be had at stg 2 left me wanting to know what that difference was. The difference may be bigger from stock to stg 1 but the stg 2 upgrade created more useable power.. (You don't need to go to 5k rpm to feel the difference)

To be honest, after going stage 2... That now becomes the norm and it isn't slow by any means but you get used to it.

I have a local Audi dealer that is mod friendly and did the work through them. My dealer will flash and reflash if they need to and do it on their dime.

[jsh139]

You can do all the analysis you want and crunch numbers, but I recommend you go drive a stage 2 car. See if you notice enough of a difference to warrant the trade off. I like the analysis and logic....i feel this crowd eats that data up!

I went stg 1 first, then about 6 mos later went stg2. I would agree the stg 1 difference was big, but knowing there is more juice to be had at stg 2 left me wanting to know what that difference was. The difference may be bigger from stock to stg 1 but the stg 2 upgrade created more useable power.. (You don't need to go to 5k rpm to feel the difference)

To be honest, after going stage 2... That now becomes the norm and it isn't slow by any means but you get used to it.

I have a local Audi dealer that is mod friendly and did the work through them. My dealer will flash and reflash if they need to and do it on their dime.

Haha, it's like that with every car, unfortunately! We always want more power

[bhvrdr]

Haha, it's like that with every car, unfortunately! We always want more power

Amen, I heard there are a bunch of Stage 3 people who are already just itching to go Stage 2...





:) harmless joke....to early for that?

Mike

[jsh139]

Amen, I heard there are a bunch of Stage 3 people who are already just itching to go Stage 2...





:) harmless joke....to early for that?

Mike

Well played.

[db12]

I just had my APR stage 2 package installed last week on my 2014. I like you had the same quandry about warranty etc. But I came to the realization that it is only an issue if you actually have a warranty issue. From the research I have seen you are highly unlikley to encounter such a problem before your warranty is up. So I said screw it and pulled the trigger. I have to say..."damn"!! The car is a totally different monster now. Every day I drive to work Im grinning ear to ear ;)

[GT-R & S4]

I've had my '15 S4 Prestige with DSG and rear sports differential for six months now. I went Stage II with the TCM upgrade three months into ownership, flawlessly installed by Induktion Motorsports. The S4 is my DD, and I just had to have the extra power, ha-ha. I don't launch the car, in fact, I don't think I've ever launched it. Flooring it from a dead stop just isn't my thing. I'd typically be at a light with other cars, and taking off like that would be a bit too noticeable to all the sheeples. Now I WILL take off from a roll once I've gotten past the pack, if some hero in another hot rod decides he wants to be king of the highway, ha-ha. The gains I've received from Stage II vs. stock have been pretty darned good. Compared to my stock GT-R, obviously no contest there, but at the same time I've taken off in my S4 at times and it has been almost scary fast. My Audi service department is working with me on the mods, at least in terms of not scanning my vehicle without my consent first. So when I know they would have to do so, I would flash back to stock first. Otherwise, the S4 seems a fairly solid vehicle, and now that I have slightly more than 5K miles on the odometer, I'm not overly concerned about engine or transmission problems. I don't track the vehicle, and as I said, haven't launched it, and probably don't plan to make that a regular occurrence in the future. Besides, I will be bringing my S4 to my tuner for oil changes (I have the Audicare for the 15, 25, 35, and 45K service), so they will be regularly checking on the health of the vehicle most often. Overall, I've been very pleased with the Stage II, and the money has been worth it vs. stock performance.

[jokingjimmy]

Damn you all to hell. You're supposed to say, "don't do it, it's like smoking, at first they said smoking was great. Later they said it is bad." That way I could stop dreaming about my Stage 2 upgrade. You are all the devil.

But thanks for the logical reasoning on why I can and should upgrade lol. If I do it before warranty end I'll be stage 2 for flashback. If after I might Stage 3 (if they get the links worked out). I was thinking just stage 1 but Lindw4ll makes sense. Dangit. Lol

[torinalth]

yeah. Lindw4ll, AZT, and GT-R & S4 make very good arguments in general for things to consider in general when trying to make this decision and how you should approach it. Still not sold one way or the other, but I'm glad I've been able to receive actual thought out information for a change. Thank you all so far that have been giving actual useful insight.

[rota92]

I see some one gets pulled by 335s daily .. It's ok you'll get used to it ;)

I drive a 2-ton sedan, not worried about who is faster on my way to and from work :P

Pretty sure my wife's X3 would hang on my bumper haha

[rota92]

I'm stage 1 and i'm going to install my updated tune and pulley saturday morning.

because fuck it.

In for updates