Carbon cleaning this weekend (first clean @110k km) - got any tips?

[ven0m]

Hey guys,

I'm doing a carbon clean this weekend (this will be the first one for my car at 110k km - the previos owner has never done it).
I already got all the required tools. I'm going to be cleaning with walnut shells.

I found two nice DIY regarding the removal of the IM (audi[revolution].net/forum/index.php?topic=439.0 <- without the brackets) and the cleaning itself (http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=104824).

I was wondering if anybody that has done this themselves, do you have any pointers, things I need to watch, etc.? Disassembly/assembly (torque spec), cleaning... am I missing anything?

ps: I'm also going to change the spark plugs and cracked coolant reservoir while I'm at it.

[komseh]

Save your back by putting the car up on ramps or jack stands
Make sure you have a very low profile ratchet for unbolting the SAI stuff
Soak the valves in oven cleaner for 5 minutes then soak up the cleaner with rags or paper towels before blasting

[Seattle squash]

I would pm Tony, sounds like he does them annually himself. Let us know, impressive mileage for never being done... :)


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[TypeRx]

PM me your email address and I'll send the instructions I used (from Tim/silverRS4).

Be extra careful when putting the IM back on (don't snag the arms on anything) and make sure all your vacuum hoses are reattached. Take a ton of pictures during the disassembly so you know how to orient everything when you reinstall.

I used oven cleaner and it was great. I used the low odor easy off, not the traditional yellow stuff. After scrubbing, I sucked it up with a shop vac and then wiped things out with a paper towel. I repeated this multiple times but since you are blasting, your situation will be different.

Also, just in case make sure you are okay not having your car for a couple days in case you hit any bumps along the way.


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[sandros1]

Ven0m, Unfortunately no tips to add here other than to say definitely do the ramps to save your back/neck. Have patience. Post lots of pictures. I'm sure there are examples out there with higher mileage without a CC, but they are not likely members here. This will be a decent "control study" for those new owners just getting into vehicles with some mid/high mileage and no history of a CC. Looking forward to the outcome and the butt-dyno results as well! Keep us posted.

cheers!

sandros

[FWP!]

Only things to add would be - once you get the IM unbolted and the oil/air separator removed from the back of the IM and it's ready to take off, lift up the front of the IM enough to get at the connections up front and there is one vacuum line you'll need to pull off. Also, as you're taking the IM off, rotate it (the long way) in a counter-clockwise motion to allow the intake neck to go under and clear the hard fuel lines, then re-install the opposite way. Makes it easier.

What walnut blasting kit are you using?

[your daddy]

110k? tip is use dynamite :)

[velodb]

Don't waste your time with seafoam or anything other than gasoline. GoGone works great and easily cleans the runners and also the valves and walls of the head. I dipped a microfiber towel and went at it. Works better than anything else. Seafoam doesn't clean worth a shit. All the other cleaners either. With GooGone you don't have to soak. It just wipes stuff down. I would also change the plastic arms that control the flaps in the intake manifold to the metal ones form 034 and you should be good to go.

I have done three carbon cleans. You forget to take off your oil filter housing and stuff a towel in there. Change your oil after you start the car and drive it to get oil temp up and then change the oil. TRUST ME ON THE GOOGONE. That stuff cleans it without having to scrub or soak.

[badbluers4]

Don't waste your time with seafoam or anything other than gasoline. GoGone works great and easily cleans the runners and also the valves and walls of the head. I dipped a microfiber towel and went at it. Works better than anything else. Seafoam doesn't clean worth a shit. All the other cleaners either. With GooGone you don't have to soak. It just wipes stuff down. I would also change the plastic arms that control the flaps in the intake manifold to the metal ones form 034 and you should be good to go.

I have done three carbon cleans. You forget to take off your oil filter housing and stuff a towel in there. Change your oil after you start the car and drive it to get oil temp up and then change the oil. TRUST ME ON THE GOOGONE. That stuff cleans it without having to scrub or soak.

He's blasting with walnut shells lol

[velodb]

damn. I should read the posts. Still, use goo gone to clean the runners, damn it!

[badbluers4]

damn. I should read the posts. Still, use goo gone to clean the runners, damn it!

Lmao

[evolution2147]

I walnut blasted mine and i still had to do a decent amount or picking in between the blasts. It definitely helped though. I sprayed brake cleaner in the port and then picked and then blasted with the cleaner still in there. I did the first CC on this car this summer and it had the equivalent of 200k kilometers so i can't imagine yours are any worse.

There is a few tricks with the manifold but the guides are pretty easy to follow. also I did not have to remove my oil filter.

[ven0m]

Reporting back. I started removing the IM today morning and will start cleaning tomorrow morning.
Guys, thank you for all your help, much appreciated! (I would have stopped the work 3x already if it wasn't for the help from this community)

I'm making a timelapse of the complete removal/clean/reassembly, I'll share it with you guys as a thankyou

TypeRx, thanks again for the complete PDF version for the IM removal! The low profile ratchet was also a last minute tip, I got it today thankfully (from WERA for around 26€).
Regarding the soaking of the valves I got WYNNS carb cleaner (a few cans) and will test the stuff out tomorrow in between blasting with walnuts. If it won't be effective I'll get some oven cleaner.

Walnut shells I got from a German supplier. I got two sizes (0,20-0,45mm & 0,45-0,80mm) to see which will be most effective in removing the carbon. The sand gun I got from a local hardware store (pretty cheap ~20€). I wasn't convinced at first if it would handle the task, but then I made a hole in my table during testing and I was convinced.

I still have two additional questions:

1.) Should I disassemble the IM itself to clean it internally or just clean as much as I can with a cloth from the outside or also clean it with walnuts?









2.) I read a couple times that people remove these separators, should I clean them and put them back in?






All connections/bolts/hoses are marked, holes are plugged, I'm done for tonight (all beat up with bloody knuckles).






The best and the worst of the valves.

[TypeRx]

Sent you a PM as well. Port separators are your option - if I didn't install JHM Spacers I probably would have reinstalled them. I left them out for mine.

I wouldn't blast the intake manifold - I would just clean with carb cleaner or whatever chemical plus a brass brush. Do what you can reach but don't go overboard. The valve seats are mainly what you are after.


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[ven0m]

Carbon Cleaning at 115.000km

Hey guys, sorry for writting back so late. So everything went well and I cleaned everything and put the car back together successfully :)
Here's a time-lapse of the entire job and a pull I did a couple days later.




The difference is just staggering. The car feels more alive, upwards from 4k it just wants to go.
All in all I'm very satisfied with the job, it simply had to be done - also on the count that you get to know your car a LOT better after such a job.

I had a couple small issues with the cheap-o sandblast pistol - next time I know to rather pay the extra 20€ and save a lot of frustration. I also didn't read the first page of the instructions about the required tools and had no ratchet bit holder and was stuck mid-job, but thankfully a hardware store nearby had a piece from Wera that did the job between the engine and firewall marvelously.
I took me 3 days all together (1 day disassembly, 1 day cleaning, 1 day assembly and to make everything purtty) but if I were to do it again now I would be able to finish up in a full days work.

I cleaned with a combination of:
1.) Soaking in petrol
2.) Brushing roughly with wooden cutlery and toothbrush
3.) Small blasts with high pressured carb cleaner
4.) Sanding with walnuts
5.) Final blast with carb cleaner and wipe down with cloth

Some extra pics attached. Thanks again guys, this is something well worth doing for these cars!

After the job




Valves


Port seperators



I also changed the spark plugs (switched from NGK to Bosch); the plugs from the previous owner were.... and also changed the water reservoar while at it (old one was starting to crack).






A couple more pics during cleaning.






















The bit ratchet that I bought later on. Did the job perfectly!

[silverRS4]

OP, good job. Quite an experience isn't it? It was awfully nice of Type RX to forward you the removal instructions...hope they helped. Just think, the next time you do this, it will go even faster and by the fourth or fifth time you'll be able to do it in your sleep!

[jeff33702]

Now you can LOL at the people who say it doesn't make any noticeable difference and that it's all in your head. LOL.

[e36graduate]

Good write up, too bad I didn't read it before I did my first carbon cleaning last week. should be able to get manifold off in about an hour next time. Carbon was quite excessive, but not anymore! Yes, the car woke up after the cleaning, however I also changed plugs and coils along with having an Apr tune..........and she pulls and revs better than ever.......

[RAudi Driver]

Very nice. I liked the video also.

[WinterRunner]

Bravo!!!

[badbluers4]

Very cool time lapse!!!

[ven0m]

Thanks guys! (was also my first time lapse video )

OP, good job. Quite an experience isn't it? It was awfully nice of Type RX to forward you the removal instructions...hope they helped. Just think, the next time you do this, it will go even faster and by the fourth or fifth time you'll be able to do it in your sleep!

The instructions were exactly what was needed, otherwise I would have been in the dark and also never gotten the parts between the engine and firewall out - after seeing the bolts on the pictures you have a clue where to look and can just feel the bolts with your fingers.
The fifth time my better half will probably kill me.

Now you can LOL at the people who say it doesn't make any noticeable difference and that it's all in your head. LOL.

I already did LOL. Had a couple of people call bullshit on the claim of reviving so many HP. I seriously gotta get a before/after dyno next time...

[UroTuning]

That is some nasty build up!! Nice diy. Thank you sir for being one of the few people that will go thru the trouble of doing maintenance!! How long did it take you?

[musasabi]

The pictures and video are so fucking tasteful. =D Haha. Awesome man; I look forward to doing mine. That pull... was impressively snappy. =)

[Avus RS4]

What's the preferred method to close the valve(s) for blast cleaning?
I see some people just crank the engine, I saw a video on Bimmer forum where some kind of device was used to remotely crank the engine.
I hear the car has to be put on "sleep mode" what's that? [?]

[TypeRx]

You can rock the car back and forth when the tranny is in 5th gear (or other high gear) or crank the ignition with the fuel pump pulled. I did the latter because rocking the car in gear wasn't working well for me.


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[Avus RS4]

You can rock the car back and forth when the tranny is in 5th gear (or other high gear) or crank the ignition with the fuel pump pulled. I did the latter because rocking the car in gear wasn't working well for me.


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Cool. Thanks!

[TypeRx]

By "fuel pump" I meant pull the fuel pump fuse. Just realize that you will get a CEL upon restart so have a VAG-COM or equivalent handy to clear things


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[ven0m]

That is some nasty build up!! Nice diy. Thank you sir for being one of the few people that will go thru the trouble of doing maintenance!! How long did it take you?

The entire time through the disassembly of the engine I was questioning if all this was REALLY necessary. After the intake manifold was removed and I saw the carbon... let's say I changed my mind and was glad that I went through all that.
+ it was an awesome experience and wouldn't have been possible without all the community support!

It took me all together 3 days (1 day disassembly, 1 day cleaning, 1 day assembling), but next time I'll probably be done in 1 day max. now that I know a bit more how it goes.

The pictures and video are so fucking tasteful. =D Haha. Awesome man; I look forward to doing mine. That pull... was impressively snappy. =)

Thanks man!
I read a lot on how to launch quattros properly and also practised a lot. :D

What's the preferred method to close the valve(s) for blast cleaning?
I see some people just crank the engine, I saw a video on Bimmer forum where some kind of device was used to remotely crank the engine.
I hear the car has to be put on "sleep mode" what's that? [?]

Just put the car in 4th gear and push it. You can see me doing that at 3:05 in the video above.

By "fuel pump" I meant pull the fuel pump fuse. Just realize that you will get a CEL upon restart so have a VAG-COM or equivalent handy to clear things


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It throws an error for the O2 sensor, because the heating element is powered on the same fuse as the fuel pump.

[musasabi]

Thanks man!
I read a lot on how to launch quattros properly and also practised a lot. :D

Ah. Any favorite articles/etc you'd like to link? I've done some basic searches, but never found anything overtly useful.

[ven0m]

Ah. Any favorite articles/etc you'd like to link? I've done some basic searches, but never found anything overtly useful.

I found this thread to be the most help in understanding what you actually want to do with the clutch and wheels when you start from a stand-still without "falling in the hole" and putting all the strain on the drive-train. (it rhymes HA!)

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...launch-the-RS4

[Tkalxx]

Carbon Cleaning at 115.000km

Thats a really big thumb...

[ven0m]

lol@thumb comment, my hands are actually quite small

Short update: I did a dyno shortly after the clean.
Sadly I had no baseline before the clean to compare.

The car has no software changes apart from the O2's being removed due to piggie downpipes.
The only changes are a cat-back from Milltek (resonated) and removed pre-cats.



Some graphs from the dyno:

WHP



CHP




At the end of the last dyno run my front-inner CV boots decided they don't want to exist any more so I left the dyno in a cloud of smoke from the CV grease spraying on the hot exhaust.
I ended up replacing all 4 front CV boots if the complete axles were already out.






Before the dyno I also got the chance to have some fun on one of the VERY rare local circuits. (in the complete country we have one "track" and a small go-kart track)