Broken engine mount symptoms?

[Vogz]

I've had a front left "clunk" at low speed that's gotten progressively worse over the past 1.5 years. It's nearly unnoticeable when the car is cold, but as the car warms up it gets worse and worse. It happens over bumps going straight and even more when turning to the left. My warranty ran out in May and it didn't get really bad until this summer so I'm on my own diagnosing this. I have a two post lift and when I get under the car while it's in the air and warm, I tug on the front suspension...nothing. Sway bar, nothing. Subframe, nothing. I have not tried to move the engine as I didn't think about it until now. I replaced my springs and dampers last Summer and it didn't change the clunk at all. Sway bars and end links are OEM and in great shape. Car only has 40K miles and this started around 25k.

This has led me to the possibility of a bad engine mount on the left side. I can't see it to confirm though. Has anyone else had this symptom with a bad mount? I think the rubber in the mount softens up when it warms up and then the possibly broken mount really starts to move. Before I order some 034 mounts and spend the better part of a weekend putting them in, I want to exhaust all other possibilities.

EDIT: I have no brown staining or fluid leaking from either mount.

Anyone?

[DGVR6]

Open the hood, put the car into gear with the ebrake on and check for excessive flex.
The only other thing I can think of is a bad suspension bushing. Lift it up again and inspect all the bushings for damage.

[Vogz]

Open the hood, put the car into gear with the ebrake on and check for excessive flex.
The only other thing I can think of is a bad suspension bushing. Lift it up again and inspect all the bushings for damage.

My car is a 6-speed. I don't have that option of putting it in gear with the parking brake.

All bushings have been checked by myself and Komet motorsports. They are all perfect. Again there is zero excessive play with any suspension component. That's why I'm at a complete loss.

[PitchS4]

Was the subframed dropped during the clutch install (it probably was). If you rule out changes to the clutch (subframe) and shock/springs the only things left really are sways/end-links or control arms.

I've never heard of engine mounts making noise and if they did I doubt turning would have an effect.

Remove your front sway bar and drive around. See if goes away.

[GTItoS4]

Did you ever have the dealer inspect for the noise while under warranty? If so, they may likely extend coverage to a previously existing condition.

[034Motorsport]

You can keep your foot on the brake and engage the clutch slightly to see how much the engine moves. Other than that, it's hard to visually inspect the engine mounts (aside from checking for leaks) due to the heat shields over them.

We've seen stock mounts fail around your mileage with Stage 2, but it isn't exactly a cheap and easy job if the mounts aren't the source of the sound. Hopefully your mounts are faring better than these:



You mentioned checking the suspension, but have you checked the upper strut mounts? They're often overlooked, and we've found them to be the source of clunking on some cars. We offer an upgraded Density Line version of those as well. I've included links to the strut mounts and engine mounts below. Hope you can get the clunk sorted out soon!

- Laszlo

Density Line Strut Mount Upgrade for B8/B8.5 Audi S4



Performance Engine Mount Upgrade for B8/B8.5 Audi S4

[fitzydude]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ht=strut+mount

I've been trying to track down this noise, I was thinking I had tracked down to the upper strut mount. But since the post the noise is back, did you replace the strut mount when you replaced the suspension components? I've always felt it could be the motor mount causing my noise too.

^Had no Idea 034 offered strut mounts too, I imagine I'll be ordering motor and strut mounts from them at some point in the future or sooner if they have a big sale :)

[Vogz]

Was the subframed dropped during the clutch install (it probably was). If you rule out changes to the clutch (subframe) and shock/springs the only things left really are sways/end-links or control arms.

I've never heard of engine mounts making noise and if they did I doubt turning would have an effect.

Remove your front sway bar and drive around. See if goes away.

Subframe was not dropped during clutch install. Clunk was the same before and after clutch and suspension install.

I'll probably try front sway bar removal before I delve further just to rule it out. Thanks.

[Vogz]

Did you ever have the dealer inspect for the noise while under warranty? If so, they may likely extend coverage to a previously existing condition.

No, I'll only put about 10K miles a year on the car and my service interval always ended up being in the winter for Audicare. For some reason it hasn't clunked at all in the winter. So I never had a symptom to show to them. They probably would have blamed my aftermarket suspension anyway though even though the clunk started before I installed it.

It didn't get bad enough for me to want to take it in until this summer after my warranty expired. I probably should have taken it in before to get it documented even if they didn't hear it, but it's too late for that now.

[Vogz]

You can keep your foot on the brake and engage the clutch slightly to see how much the engine moves. Other than that, it's hard to visually inspect the engine mounts (aside from checking for leaks) due to the heat shields over them.

We've seen stock mounts fail around your mileage with Stage 2, but it isn't exactly a cheap and easy job if the mounts aren't the source of the sound. Hopefully your mounts are faring better than these:



You mentioned checking the suspension, but have you checked the upper strut mounts? They're often overlooked, and we've found them to be the source of clunking on some cars. We offer an upgraded Density Line version of those as well. I've included links to the strut mounts and engine mounts below. Hope you can get the clunk sorted out soon!

- Laszlo

Density Line Strut Mount Upgrade for B8/B8.5 Audi S4



Performance Engine Mount Upgrade for B8/B8.5 Audi S4

I actually have your density line strut mounts sitting on my workbench waiting to go in. I'm switching up my suspension setup so they'll go in at that time. The stock strut mounts looked great when I installed my current setup.

[PitchS4]

Subframe was not dropped during clutch install. Clunk was the same before and after clutch and suspension install.

I'll probably try front sway bar removal before I delve further just to rule it out. Thanks.

Worth checking the subframe bolts then too (if you didn't already).

[Vogz]

Worth checking the subframe bolts then too (if you didn't already).

They are all tight, but what I might do is use a support bar to hold top of engine, loosen them and re-torque them.

[AKPS4]

I have a similar sound. More like a clunky rattle, if that makes sense, when going over bumps and low speeds. Almost sounds like the subframe is loose and moving up and down or something else is loose and moving more than it should. I had an alignment done a while ago that required adjusting the subframe. Just wanted to chime in and confirm your not the only one. Will checks subframe bolts I guess.

[Vogz]

I have a similar sound. More like a clunky rattle, if that makes sense, when going over bumps and low speeds. Almost sounds like the subframe is loose and moving up and down or something else is loose and moving more than it should. I had an alignment done a while ago that required adjusting the subframe. Just wanted to chime in and confirm your not the only one. Will checks subframe bolts I guess.

yup, mine is a clunky rattle too. It also gives a small clunk as I come to a complete stop, and I can feel it through the wheel.

[ENV²]

Your shifter would shake a bit in the car. My passenger side mount was toast and I noticed the shaking in the shifter first which prompted me to look.

[pcardenas]

I have the same issue!!!!

2011

I cant get with the problem. Check for all suspension, the top mount for left shock was a litle loose , correct that but the sound persist at low speed when parking or with a small bumps...


I feel it on the front left side of the car... Tomorrow will lift the car and re check all.

Is anoyng.

[nearlydigital]

Chiming in to say that I also have this same issue, and the dealer can't seem to diagnose.

Slow speed, while turning, and over uneven pavement - something clunks on the left side. Or, while going over speed bumps.

I can feel it in the steering wheel and in the pedals, and I can hear it. Its driving me nuts.

Thread subscribed.

[Vogz]

Do the clunks get worse as the car warms up for both of you? When my car is cold, it's unnoticeable, but as it warms up it gets worse and worse.

[5snikufesin]

I had the same issue on my 09 S5. It was a clunk noise when I would brake or came to complete stop. It was more noticeable when I came to a complete stop. It was also worse the warmer it got. I had it the Audi dealer 4 times before they had a master technician look at it. He quickly realized it was a mount. They found that 3 of the mounts were broken. They had never seen this before.
I hope this helps.

[Vogz]

What mounts?

[fitzydude]

Yes mine gets worse when the car warms up and less noticeable in colder weather.

[AKPS4]

I had the same issue on my 09 S5. It was a clunk noise when I would brake or came to complete stop. It was more noticeable when I came to a complete stop. It was also worse the warmer it got. I had it the Audi dealer 4 times before they had a master technician look at it. He quickly realized it was a mount. They found that 3 of the mounts were broken. They had never seen this before.
I hope this helps.

3 out of how many and which mounts? There are only 2 engine mounts.

Are you referring to bushings?

[Vogz]

3 out of how many and which mounts? There are only 2 engine mounts.

Are you referring to bushings?

I'm thinking he's referring the strut mounts, I'm going to PM him to find out though.

[wwhan]

3 out of how many and which mounts? There are only 2 engine mounts.

Are you referring to bushings?

Typically, inline engine-transmission assemblies have three mounting points, two on the engine and one on the transmission (three point mounting).

[ASDBS]

there is a TSB for the issues you are describing, I had parts replaced on my 2012 recently for similar symptoms

[Vogz]

there is a TSB for the issues you are describing, I had parts replaced on my 2012 recently for similar symptoms

What parts did they replace???

[AKPS4]

Lol... Another vague response. I guess no one understands the importance of details.

[ASDBS]

What parts did they replace???

Will have to double check, but front lower control arms I believe.

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[duncanto]

I have a B6 S4 that had the same clunking issue. I had all of the front end linkage replaced as well as the entire suspension, yet the clunking sounds and feeling were still there, if not now under due to all other components being brands new with less 'slop'.
I got under the car and put a torque wrench to everything. All bolts were within spec, however, the three bolts that hold the subframe to the frame were loose. I snugged those (I'll have to have them replaced as apparently they are "torque to yield") and now the clunking noise is gone.
The clunking happened on uneven road, over potholes, over speed bumps, when coming to a stop, when accelerating, generally any time the frame was caused to shift or had excess torque applied.

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[Vogz]

I have a B6 S4 that had the same clunking issue. I had all of the front end linkage replaced as well as the entire suspension, yet the clunking sounds and feeling were still there, if not now under due to all other components being brands new with less 'slop'.
I got under the car and put a torque wrench to everything. All bolts were within spec, however, the three bolts that hold the subframe to the frame were loose. I snugged those (I'll have to have them replaced as apparently they are "torque to yield") and now the clunking noise is gone.
The clunking happened on uneven road, over potholes, over speed bumps, when coming to a stop, when accelerating, generally any time the frame was caused to shift or had excess torque applied.

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I've tried loosening and re-torquing the front subframe. I still have this issue almost 3 years later.

[ellwood]

I've tried loosening and re-torquing the front subframe. I still have this issue almost 3 years later.

did you try using a large pry bar to push on all the components you were inspecting? it can be hard to replicate the forces you experience while driving

as far as replacing the engine mounts, factory service manual shows that you can access both mounts without dropping the subframe. passenger side appears to be entirely accessible. for the driver's side, it shows to remove the oil cooler so you can access the triple square bolts on the front of the mount... may need to unbolt the a/c compressor as well to get clearance for taking the mount out. never seen anyone document this approach, but it seems plausible. obviously you'd be doing an oil change at the same time, ECS sells the oil cooler gasket

[Vogz]

did you try using a large pry bar to push on all the components you were inspecting? it can be hard to replicate the forces you experience while driving

as far as replacing the engine mounts, factory service manual shows that you can access both mounts without dropping the subframe. passenger side appears to be entirely accessible. for the driver's side, it shows to remove the oil cooler so you can access the triple square bolts on the front of the mount... may need to unbolt the a/c compressor as well to get clearance for taking the mount out. never seen anyone document this approach, but it seems plausible. obviously you'd be doing an oil change at the same time, ECS sells the oil cooler gasket

Yes, I've tried prying on everything. It doesn't make any sense. Everything under there is rock solid. I ruled out the engine mount theory the last time I pulled my trans. Both mounts were perfect. The car is perfect besides this stupid clunking sound.

[bl3ujay07]

Bringing this thread back up. I just put money down for a 2010 S4 with 60k mile. The vehicle has the same issue. They said they would fix it before I pick it up. It has been 2 weeks. Supposedly, they changed out the steering rack which significantly reduced the noise but they said there is still some noise present. They also said they replaced some bushings, lower control arms, cleaned and repacked the wheel bearings.

They are currently at a lost and said they will be taking the car to the Audi dealership as a last resort. I WOULD LIKE to be able to bring the car home soon (hopefully next weekend) and am trying to HELP them do some homework.

I've been doing research and thinking maybe it can be sub frame bolts or the need to loosen and re-torque motor mounts. OP, did you find a resolution?

[S4'ed]

Could be the outer front brake pad rattling in the caliper. Doe the noise go away if your are applying the brakes? The outer front pad needs to be glued to the caliper.

Also check the rubber bushings at the inner end of the upper control arms. These bushing start to crack and break-up around 40,000 to 60,000 miles, due to the excessive stress that this suspension design puts on them.

[schirm]

I had same think and it was engine mounts they were shot but would never notice while driving just the clunk. I talked to my service guy on the side and he replaced mine as a side job for 450 in his garage at home.

[bl3ujay07]

Could be the outer front brake pad rattling in the caliper. Doe the noise go away if your are applying the brakes? The outer front pad needs to be glued to the caliper.

Also check the rubber bushings at the inner end of the upper control arms. These bushing start to crack and break-up around 40,000 to 60,000 miles, due to the excessive stress that this suspension design puts on them.

I honestly am not sure if the noise goes away after applying the brakes. The car as still at the dealer (200+ miles away). I will inform them to check the calipers.
They just txt me saying they are going to change the control are bushing and BELIEVES it may be the culprit. Will keep you update.

I had same think and it was engine mounts they were shot but would never notice while driving just the clunk. I talked to my service guy on the side and he replaced mine as a side job for 450 in his garage at home.

Thanks for the input. I emailed the shop about the TSB to loosen and retighten the motor mounts. HOPEFULLY, if they motor mounts are shot, they will see and replace it. If replacing the control arm bushing does not fix it, I will make have them check the motor mounts.

[VandyZ]

Yes, I've tried prying on everything. It doesn't make any sense. Everything under there is rock solid. I ruled out the engine mount theory the last time I pulled my trans. Both mounts were perfect. The car is perfect besides this stupid clunking sound.

Did you ever get this solved? The same thing started happening for me a week ago, especially once the car and outside temp is warmer. No issues on my morning drive(s) to work. Obviously, I am at the age and mileage that it could be any number of things.

Symptoms: mild pop or two when braking or accelerating from stop when warm. Multiple pops under same conditions when turning, especially over transitions (drive way, pull-ins). Does not pop when holding the brake and going on and off the throttle, as if to launch. Pops happen when DSG is in N and coming to a stop.

[Vogz]

Did you ever get this solved? The same thing started happening for me a week ago, especially once the car and outside temp is warmer. No issues on my morning drive(s) to work. Obviously, I am at the age and mileage that it could be any number of things.

Symptoms: mild pop or two when braking or accelerating from stop when warm. Multiple pops under same conditions when turning, especially over transitions (drive way, pull-ins). Does not pop when holding the brake and going on and off the throttle, as if to launch. Pops happen when DSG is in N and coming to a stop.

Yes, axles. Here is link to thread.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ad-front-axles

[KRp220]

does anyone else have any insight on this? i most of the symtoms VandyZ posted above (although most of the noises come from turning - no so much starting and stopping) but i dont have any of the "whipping noises" mentioned in the link in the last post
it sounds like a snapping/popping noise