Intake and catback exhaust without tune?

[Vermilion]

Was thinking of getting an APR intake to go along with my Milltek catback and was wondering with this combo would I have to get a tune? Or would I be ok keeping the ECU stock?

[pinpointsnipe]

I currently run that combo with no tune and no issues on a 2015 a3

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[esfourteen]

Was thinking of getting an APR intake to go along with my Milltek catback and was wondering with this combo would I have to get a tune? Or would I be ok keeping the ECU stock?

no, you don't need a tune

[GramCracker]

You do not need a tune as the factory programming will adjust it's parameters to provide the same consistent stock engine output no matter the mods on the car. Kind of a bummer, but pretty neat as well.

[John@Roc-Euro]

You do not need a tune as the factory programming will adjust it's parameters to provide the same consistent stock engine output no matter the mods on the car. Kind of a bummer, but pretty neat as well.

That's not true - it will adapt and raise power to the maximum ceiling now imposed by ether the product, or the sensor capacity.

Whereas I can't vouch directly for the APR intake, our intake saw gains both on a stock car as well as a car with a downpipe and stock tune. Substantial gains, in fact.

[Benji00]

Hoping John is correct. I've got intake / AWE exhaust coming and I'm probably a few months away from a tune - was hoping for some improvement pre tune

[John@Roc-Euro]

I can post my dyno as soon as I'm back to the shop.

[GramCracker]

That's not true - it will adapt and raise power to the maximum ceiling now imposed by ether the product, or the sensor capacity.

Whereas I can't vouch directly for the APR intake, our intake saw gains both on a stock car as well as a car with a downpipe and stock tune. Substantial gains, in fact.

Very interesting - my understanding from what I've ready so far was what I had stated above. Interesting to hear the contrary!

[John@Roc-Euro]

The printed numbers are a little off from the random spike, but essentially:

Downpipe = +12whp
Downpipe + RocEuro Intake = +25whp
And as show, RocEuro intake = 12whp.

[Vermilion]

Can you run a catted turbo back with intake without a tune?

[BlackAudi87]

I feel you should always have a tune before or when you get exhaust- def intake. both are less restrictive and you may loose power at certain points because loss of boost

[John@Roc-Euro]

I feel you should always have a tune before or when you get exhaust- def intake. both are less restrictive and you may loose power at certain points because loss of boost

please see:

The printed numbers are a little off from the random spike, but essentially:

Downpipe = +12whp
Downpipe + RocEuro Intake = +25whp
And as show, RocEuro intake = 12whp.

No tune.

[BlackAudi87]

interesting- Good to know. However on my 2013 A4 quattro I felt like a loss of boost at times with just my K&N intake- ended up taking it off. I imagine with a tune it would not have felt like that but just guessing..

[EmmanueleDesign]

The printed numbers are a little off from the random spike, but essentially:

Downpipe = +12whp
Downpipe + RocEuro Intake = +25whp
And as show, RocEuro intake = 12whp.

From the time stamp, those runs were also done closely after eachother. As the vehicle adapts, I would expect the power to go down.

[John@Roc-Euro]

From the time stamp, those runs were also done closely after eachother. As the vehicle adapts, I would expect the power to go down.

Your expectations are incorrect. Notice that 5 day span between those two runs?

FYI:

2/26/15 - stock baseline, 224whp/240wtq

3/06/15 - Had Roc-Euro Intake on since after baseline:
10:12am, 234whp (RE)
10:28am, 227whp (Stock)

3/11 - Have had stock intake on since last dyno; added Milltek downpipe.
11:37am - 235whp (stock)
11:54am - 249whp (RE)

3/25 - Have had Milltek downpipe and RocEuro Intake on since prior dyno. Added APR Stage 1 tune.
1:31pm - 293whp (RE)
1:44pm - 279 (Stock Intake)

In every single scenario, adding the RocEuro intake GAINED power. At no point did power 'adapt' and lower. Any scenario putting the stock intake in REDUCED power.

[EmmanueleDesign]

Your expectations are incorrect. Notice that 5 day span between those two runs?

FYI:

2/26/15 - stock baseline, 224whp/240wtq

3/06/15 - Had Roc-Euro Intake on since after baseline:
10:12am, 234whp (RE)
10:28am, 227whp (Stock)

3/11 - Have had stock intake on since last dyno; added Milltek downpipe.
11:37am - 235whp (stock)
11:54am - 249whp (RE)

3/25 - Have had Milltek downpipe and RocEuro Intake on since prior dyno. Added APR Stage 1 tune.
1:31pm - 293whp (RE)
1:44pm - 279 (Stock Intake)

In every single scenario, adding the RocEuro intake GAINED power. At no point did power 'adapt' and lower. Any scenario putting the stock intake in REDUCED power.

Do you have these other dyno plots (3/6 and 3/11)? I'm curious as I have usually seen different. I'm not doubting that an intake will make power, but rather the magnitude of the gains on a stock vehicle. Do you have any data logs that might give an idea of where these power gains would come from? I'm also curious of the effect of a fan blowing on an open element intake with the hood open (something that would not be seen in a real world scenario).

[Hspecialist]

I noticed more power on my MAF 03 a4 when people state you wouldn't. I've experienced huge improvement dropping a panel in my MAP 15 a3. I don't always believe that people won't gain with an intake when it does help, imo and ownership

[John@Roc-Euro]

Fans on the dyno don't do enough unless you're parking a turboprop in front of it. We've done open and closed, and I don't recall it making a marked difference. I do know that as a result of our design, which funnels ALL of the air from the ENTIRE leading edge towards our filter (which also receives head-on airflow due to its secondary cone) we see substantially more airflow than closed box systems, or other half-box systems. IATs drop way faster than others, and in the real world, you literally cannot put more air into the system than you can with ours.

We make more power by design.



If you want all the nitty gritty acquisition data, come work for us.

[Thumper3]

3/06/15 - Had Roc-Euro Intake on since after baseline:
10:12am, 234whp (RE)
10:28am, 227whp (Stock)

7Hp is hardley ground breaking though, and a dyno is not indicative of real world gains. It's a great tool, but too many put too much stock in it as final arbiter.

I ran tests on my MK6 GTI with stock intake/stock file, then did stock intake/APR Stg1, then did aftermarket intake/stock file and aftermarket intake/APR Stg 1. My tests were 0-60, 30-60, and 35-70mph runs.

I have no doubt that a dyno would show the intake gave me 4, or 5 or even 10HP. However, it did nothing on the street. Times were all identical within a statistical variance on the stock file. The only gains of note were when going from stock intake/APR Stg 1 to aftermarket intake/APR Stg 1. The tune was demanding more airflow and the intake was able to supply it allowing not only more power but more responsive throttle input translating to real world gains on the street.

So sure, you can get a trickle of HP with an intake, but at what point does spending $400 on an intake to get 7HP instead of dropping a little more cash on a tune and getting 35+ HP?? Personally I always go for the biggest power gains first, and then start working out how to squeeze the last few HPs out of a platform. Especially when the small HP gains are the most expensive cost/power wise.

This is actually proven by your dyno charts as well. The intake alone added 7HP, whereas the intake when coupled with REAL power adding parts (DP and tune) added 14HP.

IMHO the only reason to get an intake and not have a tune is for the noise, which is about the same as putting a fart cannon on a Honda........all show...no go.

[nefkntym]

I have a bunch of VBox runs in my thread that show results from intake, intake + exhaust, intake + exhaust +Stage1, intake + exhaust + Stage 2. There was improvement after each change on my S3.

No dyno runs though, sorry.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...acier-White-S3

[GramCracker]

IMHO the only reason to get an intake and not have a tune is for the noise, which is about the same as putting a fart cannon on a Honda........all show...no go.

Or, ya know, not getting a TD1 and blowing my warranty.

[Vermilion]

Well I blew $1400 on a cat back and it's mostly just for sound. So what?

[John@Roc-Euro]

Or, ya know, not getting a TD1 and blowing my warranty.

Right, and if you're gonna go that route, but still want to play a little, then DP + intake = 25whp, or as a Delta, over a 10% power increase.

In the end, its all in what you want to do to your car. I just like to make sure products are actual power-adders, or at least not reducing power.

[Thumper3]

Or, ya know, not getting a TD1 and blowing my warranty.

LMAO

Except an anal dealer can STILL TD1 you for an intake and exhaust, partly cause they wouldn't believe anyone would spend damn near $2000 for 10HP and they figure you have a tune anyway and are just sneaky/lying.

No, I hear you, sort of, warranty is important...........but seriously, the REAL reason for intake and exhaust is sound, no matter what you have to tell yourself...........sorry, it is NOT to get some more power and save the warranty.............because if you can spend $200/horsepower than you got money laying around to cover out of warranty expenses.

You're talking about gaining maybe 1/10 of a second, 2 if you're lucky and there's a tail wind, the path to real power and saving the warranty is in a piggyback, not intake and exhaust that are still limited by factory set limits anyway.