A little confused on 0-60 in S3

[Primolak]

First post for me!

I am negotiating for an S3 this week and have been test driving it a few times as well as riding in a friends. Now I am no speed junky but am confused with the 0-60 speed times this car seems to be reported as having.

Stock. So around 4.5 with Launch Control of course but around 5.7 without? That seems like a big difference to me. And honestly without LC active it feels faster than it is, perhaps due to its smaller stature.

Is that correct that the spread is that big when not using LC? And the 5-60 is about the same, being in the high fives? That just seems kinda slow to me actually. My Infiniti M37s was around 5.4 and that is a big car.

Anyway. I was just curious if these real world numbers are actually correct and the spread can actually be that large.

Thoughts?



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[Penti]

Coming from a WRX, I think the S3's power delivery is just a lot smoother than some turbo charged vehicles, so you don't get the same kick in the back. Given the proven tuning potential, that's presumably deliberate on Audi's part. Still a quick car in standard form, but the combination of computer controlled clutches, and smooth power delivery can be a bit deceptive.

[CbutterK]

First post for me!

I am negotiating for an S3 this week and have been test driving it a few times as well as riding in a friends. Now I am no speed junky but am confused with the 0-60 speed times this car seems to be reported as having.

Stock. So around 4.5 with Launch Control of course but around 5.7 without? That seems like a big difference to me. And honestly without LC active it feels faster than it is, perhaps due to its smaller stature.

Is that correct that the spread is that big when not using LC? And the 5-60 is about the same, being in the high fives? That just seems kinda slow to me actually. My Infiniti M37s was around 5.4 and that is a big car.

Anyway. I was just curious if these real world numbers are actually correct and the spread can actually be that large.

Thoughts?



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Yes. The spread is that large....

[S4ilicious]

Op, the S3's 0-60 time is more like 4.7 from what I have seen. 4.5 is a tad optimistic. The quarter mile is in the mid 13's
still a fun little turbo car for what it is

[CbutterK]

Op, the S3's 0-60 time is more like 4.7 from what I have seen. 4.5 is a tad optimistic. The quarter mile is in the mid 13's
still a fun little turbo car for what it is

Stage 1 drops 0 to 60 around 4 flat, & low 12 quarter, & stage 2 drops it even further to high 3 sec 0 to 60, and high 11 sec qtr mile... Pretty impressive for "what it is"...

[ahyeah]

First post for me!

I am negotiating for an S3 this week and have been test driving it a few times as well as riding in a friends. Now I am no speed junky but am confused with the 0-60 speed times this car seems to be reported as having.

Stock. So around 4.5 with Launch Control of course but around 5.7 without? That seems like a big difference to me. And honestly without LC active it feels faster than it is, perhaps due to its smaller stature.

Is that correct that the spread is that big when not using LC? And the 5-60 is about the same, being in the high fives? That just seems kinda slow to me actually. My Infiniti M37s was around 5.4 and that is a big car.

Anyway. I was just curious if these real world numbers are actually correct and the spread can actually be that large.

Thoughts?



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Correct. I believe the 0-60 time is about 5.5sec unless using launch control. Surprisingly, in real world driving, it's a hair faster than an S4 from a roll to give you an idea.

[Primolak]

Yes. The spread is that large....

Wow. Almost a full second difference.


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[Primolak]

Coming from a WRX, I think the S3's power delivery is just a lot smoother than some turbo charged vehicles, so you don't get the same kick in the back. Given the proven tuning potential, that's presumably deliberate on Audi's part. Still a quick car in standard form, but the combination of computer controlled clutches, and smooth power delivery can be a bit deceptive.

Yes. It seems to be faster when you are in it. Both driving and riding in it. At least to me.


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[Primolak]

Stage 1 drops 0 to 60 around 4 flat, & low 12 quarter, & stage 2 drops it even further to high 3 sec 0 to 60, and high 11 sec qtr mile... Pretty impressive for "what it is"...

Yeah. I have never tuned anything before since I lease my vehicle and my company writes off the payment. Therefore I am always stuck needing to keep everything pretty stock. I wish it wasn't the case but I would be the one that got caught 'changing' things under the hood for sure. Ha.


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[Primolak]

Op, the S3's 0-60 time is more like 4.7 from what I have seen. 4.5 is a tad optimistic. The quarter mile is in the mid 13's
still a fun little turbo car for what it is

I saw a few mags that had it at 4.4 I think. Maybe I am wrong.


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[Primolak]

Correct. I believe the 0-60 time is about 5.5sec unless using launch control. Surprisingly, in real world driving, it's a hair faster than an S4 from a roll to give you an idea.

Interesting. Yeah. Real world I never go 0-60 anyway. I live in Los Angeles so it's more like 0-5 and back to 0 and then to 5 again. Haha

Although this car would be fun to pass once in a while on the freeway when there is a hole. The torque is pretty great at higher speeds it seems.


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[S3Mike]

i did 4.7 and 4.8 bone stock with a P3 guage

[Thumper3]

Wow. Almost a full second difference.

This is due to the lag in low end turbo power and the DSG. I am sure you have noticed it on your test drives, it's impossible not to. Getting around it takes some finesse and practice.

With launch control the DSG is already fully engaged and the turbo is at it's prime spool, eliminates the delay.

From a roll it can edge the S4 because the tiny 4pot will rev a bit faster, and it's lighter. It's only down about 40hp from the S4 but it's also darn near 500lbs lighter. Power to weight is pretty close, but that doesn't tell the whole story. In flat out 0-60 runs the S4 wins because the supercharger has no lag and that power and torque is there instantly.

I hear what OP is saying, the S3 just FEELS fast and it definitely is tighter in the corners with that lower weight and shorter wheelbase. The power once engaged is just so smooth it doesn't give you that jerked back in your seat feeling, even though you are flying.

[Primolak]

i did 4.7 and 4.8 bone stock with a P3 guage

Using LC?


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[Primolak]

This is due to the lag in low end turbo power and the DSG. I am sure you have noticed it on your test drives, it's impossible not to. Getting around it takes some finesse and practice.

With launch control the DSG is already fully engaged and the turbo is at it's prime spool, eliminates the delay.

From a roll it can edge the S4 because the tiny 4pot will rev a bit faster, and it's lighter. It's only down about 40hp from the S4 but it's also darn near 500lbs lighter. Power to weight is pretty close, but that doesn't tell the whole story. In flat out 0-60 runs the S4 wins because the supercharger has no lag and that power and torque is there instantly.

I hear what OP is saying, the S3 just FEELS fast and it definitely is tighter in the corners with that lower weight and shorter wheelbase. The power once engaged is just so smooth it doesn't give you that jerked back in your seat feeling, even though you are flying.

Totally makes sense.

And yes the lag is very apparent. I remember it from my wife's A3 from about six years back. Kinda dove me nuts until I had driven it for a while and got used to it each time.

It does feel fast. I think the size is the main factor in that for sure.


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[PbanyS3]

I call on the 5.5 seconds 0 to 60 figure.

Motorweek tested a 2015 A3 2.0 quattro and they got 0 to 60 in 6.0 seconds. They tested a 2013 S4 and got 4.7 seconds 13.2 1/4 mile, 2013 S5 4.9 seconds 13.4 1/4 mile...

Too bad only Car & Driver / Road & Track did road tests on the S3. Would like to see a head to head or comparo test by a US magazine / source. No TFL ! They said the 228i dusted an S3 cause of the S3's throttle delay.

[Primolak]

I call on the 5.5 seconds 0 to 60 figure.

Motorweek tested a 2015 A3 2.0 quattro and they got 0 to 60 in 6.0 seconds. They tested a 2013 S4 and got 4.7 seconds 13.2 1/4 mile, 2013 S5 4.9 seconds 13.4 1/4 mile...

Too bad only Car & Driver / Road & Track did road tests on the S3. Would like to see a head to head or comparo test by a US magazine / source. No TFL ! They said the 228i dusted an S3 cause of the S3's throttle delay.

Your Poop call meaning it is faster or slower than 5.5? Just to clarify for a rookie here. Ha.


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[TurboR850]

I call on the 5.5 seconds 0 to 60 figure.

Motorweek tested a 2015 A3 2.0 quattro and they got 0 to 60 in 6.0 seconds. They tested a 2013 S4 and got 4.7 seconds 13.2 1/4 mile, 2013 S5 4.9 seconds 13.4 1/4 mile...

Too bad only Car & Driver / Road & Track did road tests on the S3. Would like to see a head to head or comparo test by a US magazine / source. No TFL ! They said the 228i dusted an S3 cause of the S3's throttle delay.

That is withOUT using launch control... the street start 5-60 is 5.6 seconds... so there is no on that figure...

[VW2Audi25]

Car and Driver did a test on A3, and got 5.4 (I'm assuming with launch control.) I'm sure an S3 would be faster than that.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-5

[Primolak]

Car and Driver did a test on A3, and got 5.4 (I'm assuming with launch control.) I'm sure an S3 would be faster than that.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-5

It is faster than that for sure with LC on.


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[S3Mike]

Mine was with LC on the the 0-60 times..

[PbanyS3]

That is withOUT using launch control... the street start 5-60 is 5.6 seconds... so there is no on that figure...

Well for those that have an S3 please chime in. I'm NOT gonna beat on MINE with a timer to prove or disprove any figure!

I like Car & Driver's times as well.

[Primolak]

Mine was with LC on the the 0-60 times..

Gotcha.


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[hodrosS42001]

There's alot of weird information on this post. First off its really hard to identify 0 to 60 times because they will vary so much depending on anything from fuel choice, atmospheric conditions, altitude, weight (gas extra passengers), how you actually attempt the run.

First off any turbocharged car will vary greatly on all of these conditions one with a 4cyl will even more. Assuming good not ideal conditions and near sea level a high four second 0 to 60 is quite easy assuming no massive slippage and you dont have 1000lbs of human in the car. You will be slower at altitude and you will be slower with a full tank and if its hot and you're running 89 for some reason.

In terms of the discrepancy between using launch control and not it could easily be one second but it shouldn't.

Especially if you go from park to drive and floor it.. there is clutch lag not turbo lag.. which many people experience because they dont know any better. You need to be in drive and make sure you're actually engaging first gear.

You can ensure what gear engages by rolling in drive after having it in park or switching to manual mode and make sure its in 1st when the clutch engages.

So yes there can be a huge discrepancy. . But mostly due to the large array of conditions and driver error.

If you kept the conditions the same. And used launch control properly. And followed that run by another having the car in the proper gear and setting you'll probably only see a .2-.5 difference. Many of the best B8 S4 DSG 1/4 times actually have been without launch control.

[VW2Audi25]

It doesn't sound like you actually own an S3/A3. If you did, you would know about the DSG delay when not using launch control. This can not be fixed unless you get the TCU tune.

[CbutterK]

Well for those that have an S3 please chime in. I'm NOT gonna beat on MINE with a timer to prove or disprove any figure!

I like Car & Driver's times as well.

LOL... So you rather other people beat on their cars, just so you can know what your car "could" do 0 to 60 since you'll never do it for the fear of breaking your car? Well, If it make you feel better, I've done bunch of LC qtr mile drags on my S3, and did road course track on 100+ weather, and my S3 is still perfectly fine! I never logged 0 to 60 when the car was stock, but with GIAC stage 1 on 91 octane tune, Mine logged 5.09 without LC, and 4.17 with LC, on the same road going both ways, back to back, 104 degree weather, almost full tank of gas. So yeah, almost 1 second difference between LC & no LC.

[cesar2387]

I have mine filled with 93 Octane Fuel and it's faster than I expected.

[PbanyS3]

LOL... So you rather other people beat on their cars, just so you can know what your car "could" do 0 to 60 since you'll never do it for the fear of breaking your car? Well, If it make you feel better, I've done bunch of LC qtr mile drags on my S3, and did road course track on 100+ weather, and my S3 is still perfectly fine! I never logged 0 to 60 when the car was stock, but with GIAC stage 1 on 91 octane tune, Mine logged 5.09 without LC, and 4.17 with LC, on the same road going both ways, back to back, 104 degree weather, almost full tank of gas. So yeah, almost 1 second difference between LC & no LC.

YES, Of course you have to lay smack down when warranted.

The S3 is my 3rd car and the garage queen with 65 miles. It's not i'd rather, it's they've done so already!

Being there's a TCU tune now. I would definitely get it along with the Stage 1, just dunno when that'll be.....

[CbutterK]

YES, Of course you have to lay smack down when warranted.

The S3 is my 3rd car and the garage queen with 65 miles. It's not i'd rather, it's they've done so already!

Being there's a TCU tune now. I would definitely get it along with the Stage 1, just dunno when that'll be.....

65 miles??? OMG, and I thought I was bad, only driving 3K miles in almost 1 year I've had my S3! And I initially bought it to be my daily driver! Well, I do have a 2013 TT-RS that only has 4K miles, And I bought that car over 2 years ago. Anyway, I already have a Downpipe installed in my S3, just waiting for GIAC to release the Stage 2 tune. I think that will reduce the LC vs non LC times a bit, but the biggest fix will be the TCU tune I think...

[JsnMR2]

Stage 1 drops 0 to 60 around 4 flat, & low 12 quarter, & stage 2 drops it even further to high 3 sec 0 to 60, and high 11 sec qtr mile... Pretty impressive for "what it is"...

Tell that to my APR Stage 2 S3 that went 12.422 @ 108.39 tonight. Granted on 91 and not the best DA. Even on 93 and 15 degrees cooler outside, it's not going 11's.

My 60' times are as good as anyone else as well. It's just not got the top end (Judging by the MPH)

Yes... A little disappointed. UM ECU/TCU combo sounds nice.

[CbutterK]

Tell that to my APR Stage 2 S3 that went 12.422 @ 108.39 tonight. Granted on 91 and not the best DA. Even on 93 and 15 degrees cooler outside, it's not going 11's.

My 60' times are as good as anyone else as well. It's just not got the top end (Judging by the MPH)

Yes... A little disappointed. UM ECU/TCU combo sounds nice.

That's interesting... I assume this is at Fontana & with Launch control? If you look at official Qtr mile thread started by Thomas at Emmanuele Design, lot of folks are getting into 11's. Thomas runs close to 12 flat on GIAC stage 1, and I ran 12.38 on GIAC stage 1 on 100 octane file, using E85 Blend, at 4500+ DA in Arizona(100+ degrees). I am still on GIAC's original file(makes lots of power but not smooth). I speculate that APR's recently revised software lowers the torque delivery to deliver a much smoother driving experience at the sacrifice of absolute best acceleration times. But now that they've released the TCU tune as well, I suspect they will turn up the torque again, with yet another revision SW release. BTW, I'd love to see your 510! I have a 93 240SX HB with a redtop motor that I need to bring back to life from sitting for a few years since I been out of LA.

[Thumper3]

Especially if you go from park to drive and floor it.. there is clutch lag not turbo lag.. which many people experience because they dont know any better. You need to be in drive and make sure you're actually engaging first gear.

What other gear besides 1st would be engaged in a DSG from a standstill? LOL There is actually both lags, the clutch lag you can learn to overcome by not slamming your foot down on the accelerator as fast as possible.....slow is fast here. But the turbo lag is real and there's nothing you can do about it. If you know what you are doing, and actually drive an S3, you can note the turbo lag not only from a stop but in corners as well. From the obvious feeling when the turbo kicks in to the boost gauge display showing no boost, only the oblivious or willfully obtuse would claim there is no turbo lag.

Sorry to bust your bubble.

You can ensure what gear engages by rolling in drive after having it in park or switching to manual mode and make sure its in 1st when the clutch engages.

I only (99% of the time) drive in manual/dynamic, there is no way to start the car off in anything other than 1st. Unless you are going to make the claim that the car can move itself 20ft on idle, in manual/dynamic with the display showing "M1" and NOT have the clutch engaged. If you are making that claim there is no reason to even respond to the claim as it is ridiculous on it's face.

The S3 is actually the perfect storm of DSG delay, turbo lag, and fly-by-wire throttle.

Many of the best B8 S4 DSG 1/4 times actually have been without launch control.

The problem with that is that the S4 uses a supercharger, not a turbo. So this fact actually adds nothing to this topic. A supercharger by design is incapable of lag since it is directly tied to the engine RPM.

[VW2Audi25]

Yes, I don't think this guy ever drove an A/S3. Power delivery is totally different than S4.

[C4L]

LC SHOULD only add on a few tenths honestly. I did a feature with C&D and LC a few years back with my MK6 GTI (FWD example) and a 997.2 Turbo S (AWD example) and ZR1 (RWD example). The GTI was 2-4/10 quicker with LC, the 911 Turbo S just 2/10 quicker and the ZR1 was actually slower by a few ticks (with a professional driver that is)

C&D got a 4.4 0-60 out of their S3 test and the 5-60 was 5.6. That difference there comes from not only LC but of course gearing in general wherein the car isn't running 3k-4k like it would with LC but likely down at 2k rpm MAYBE. This spread isn't uncommon with AWD cars, with turbos, DCT's, and LC. ALL of the those things are at maximum effecitveness off the line but ALL at minimum effectiveness at 5mph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

And for reference C&D tested an M37S a few years back and got a 5.5 0-60 and 5.9 5-60. The major difference there is how a high boost turbo-4 feels compared to a large NA V6. And in 'normal driving' that translates to something like this;

M37S - 60-100 in 8.3 sec.
S3 - 60-100 in 6.4 sec.

HUGE difference. The M37 is about on par with an A3 2.0T around town and in normal driving...

[PbanyS3]

LC SHOULD only add on a few tenths honestly. I did a feature with C&D and LC a few years back with my MK6 GTI (FWD example) and a 997.2 Turbo S (AWD example) and ZR1 (RWD example). The GTI was 2-4/10 quicker with LC, the 911 Turbo S just 2/10 quicker and the ZR1 was actually slower by a few ticks (with a professional driver that is)

C&D got a 4.4 0-60 out of their S3 test and the 5-60 was 5.6. That difference there comes from not only LC but of course gearing in general wherein the car isn't running 3k-4k like it would with LC but likely down at 2k rpm MAYBE. This spread isn't uncommon with AWD cars, with turbos, DCT's, and LC. ALL of the those things are at maximum effecitveness off the line but ALL at minimum effectiveness at 5mph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

And for reference C&D tested an M37S a few years back and got a 5.5 0-60 and 5.9 5-60. The major difference there is how a high boost turbo-4 feels compared to a large NA V6. And in 'normal driving' that translates to something like this;

M37S - 60-100 in 8.3 sec.
S3 - 60-100 in 6.4 sec.

HUGE difference. The M37 is about on par with an A3 2.0T around town and in normal driving...

Can't we just brake torque the bad boy 3k to 4k ourselves then release the brake pedal?

[VW2Audi25]

C4L, do you own an S3 or A3? There is absolutely 0 doubt that there is about a 1 second delay between pressing gas and the car taking off. Whether it's throttle or transmission lag, it's still a huge difference between using LC and not using it. Even with a Stage 1 tune. APR has addressed this with their TCU tune and every magazine that has tested this car agrees with this.

[lenny33]

Is there less lag with an A3 compared to an S3?

[VW2Audi25]

I don't think so. I believe they use the same transmission. The best way to describe it is that the car feels like it's in neutral for a second before it takes off. If you take off from a slow roll, it's a totally different animal.

[Dwnshift]

Apr intake , apr stage 1, bull x catless dp, wagner tuning intercooler



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[S3Danny]

Anyone complaining about the lag from a stop needs to get an updated flash or something. My car (picked up on 5/27) has never given me a hint of lag from a stop, unless I'm just less sensitive than other drivers.