2011 B8 S5 idling/electircal problems.

[ghoffner]

The car in reference is a 2011 B8 S5 with 22,000 miles on it. I am the second owner and have had the car since March 2014 and have only put 5,000 miles on it since then. My warranty ended in March of this year and since then I have had several issues with the car. I originally was going to extend the warranty for another 4 years at $4,400, but decided against it because of the low mileage of the vehicle.

About 3 weeks ago I got in my car and turned it on. It immediately started flashing warning codes on the dash about "stabilization program fault", "parking break malfunction", "tire pressure system malfunction" etc... (the video should be below). I tried to drive it and see how it acted. If I accelerated hard, the car would almost flood and bog down. But if I accelerated very slowly it didn't act up that much. My service advisor had me bring it in. Long story short...he said both fuel pumps would need to be replaced ($1600). I managed to get Audi to cover it out of warranty, which I thought was nice.


Now 2 days ago I was sitting in my car while it was idling and it started to REALLY act up. All my interior lights were flashing on and off and my gearbox was rattling...like literally shaking while in park. You can hear the gearbox noise below in the video. The AC also went warm during this episode.


I have no idea what could be going on and any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm at the point where I am considering trading her in on something else besides Audi.

Thanks for your time.

[Canadianwraith]

On your first post, i had similar warning codes to what yiu had, turned out it was carbon build up. I had it cleaned and all the codes disappeared. Your second vid is very perplexing, looks computer related but I'll let someone more knowledgable chime in on that.
Iwill say that 30000 miles seems rather low for enough carbon to build up in that amount of driving. Good luck

[ghoffner]

Thanks. Well all my first issues seemed to be solved with the replacement of both my fuel pumps. But it looks like that's not the case now. I'm worried is computer related but I will ask about carbon buildup. I drive only a few miles a day and never over 45mph, so maybe that's the issue. But the car only has 22k miles...seems early for that already.

[Mr. Spectacular]

If your driving patterns are as you described, it's certainly possible to have carbon buildup at that mileage. With the engine barely getting up to temp and the valves never being wide open to blow out the crud. But all of that craziness you described, I dunno. I can only comment on the carbon as I had a similarly short commute and wasn't getting on the gas enough to slow the buildup


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[ghoffner]

Yeah it sounds like I certainly need to have it checked out for carbon, but would this really cause all of the craziness that my car has been doing? It just seems strange that this would be the culprit of all the problems that I have been having lately.

[shonseb]

Other possibilities: I would also check coil packs. If you can get a Vag Com to read out the codes, that may help. Could also be a battery on its way out, I would have the battery checked out also.

[ghoffner]

Other possibilities: I would also check coil packs. If you can get a Vag Com to read out the codes, that may help. Could also be a battery on its way out, I would have the battery checked out also.

Yes I thought about checking the battery too. Good idea. Is this what you're talking about when you say vag com?
http://www.amazon.com/Reader-Scanner.../dp/B005I7JAX8

[shonseb]

You could use that, it would tell you the code but may not tell you what the code means. You can take the code and search the internet for what it may point to. Instead of that, go to the regional forums and see if someone will scan your car and tell you the codes that come up. Or if you are able to make it an Autozone, they can scan your car for free. You may be able to get your battery checked too. Although carbon build up can cause lots of misfires, ect. I doubt it would cause the electrical issues you are having.

[ghoffner]

You could use that, it would tell you the code but may not tell you what the code means. You can take the code and search the internet for what it may point to. Instead of that, go to the regional forums and see if someone will scan your car and tell you the codes that come up. Or if you are able to make it an Autozone, they can scan your car for free. You may be able to get your battery checked too. Although carbon build up can cause lots of misfires, ect. I doubt it would cause the electrical issues you are having.

Thanks i really appreciate the input. It turns out that scanner only works on pre 2000 audis, so I will look into something else. I've read about the ross-tech cable which is $350. But I'm confused if I then need software to read codes or how that works.

I'm going to go to autozone now and see if they will scan my car and check the battery at the same time. I'll let you know what they say.

Thanks again.

[ghoffner]

Just got done at Autozone. It didn't throw any codes and the battery was good. However when you turned the car on it was only showing 13.10 volts. The lady said a good alternator should keep it above 14 easily. Does this make sense?

[shonseb]

I was thinking alternator also, but not sure because it sounds like it's still able to charge the battery.
Were you able to see if there were any misfires? I'm guessing no if no codes were thrown.... Maybe someone else can chime in?

[ghoffner]

I was thinking alternator also, but not sure because it sounds like it's still able to charge the battery.
Were you able to see if there were any misfires? I'm guessing no if no codes were thrown.... Maybe someone else can chime in?

I swung by a garage on the way home and the mechanic hooked it up to his scanner and found some codes related to the alternator. He agrees that this is what is causing the problem. He said its a 5 hour job and the alternator itself is $950. I guess this will need replaced.

[shonseb]

I'd say shop around for a quote, that seems a bit high for just an alternator. I wouldn't drive the car anywhere in case it goes out completely and you get stranded.

[ghoffner]

I'd say shop around for a quote, that seems a bit high for just an alternator. I wouldn't drive the car anywhere in case it goes out completely and you get stranded.

I've looked around online a little and found a few alternators that were all priced over $900. I need to look more but it seems like a very pricey part.

Any other input? Does anybody think that the alternator is not the problem and it's somethin else?

[B8 S FOR]

Damn Audi Gremlins make a comeback....that sux...sorry to hear..lesson learned .. never own a German Car out of warranty. NEVER

[shonseb]

Best I could find: http://www.buyautoparts.com/buynow.a...FVM7gQodqyENGg

Part number is 079903015F

[ghoffner]

Best I could find: http://www.buyautoparts.com/buynow.a...FVM7gQodqyENGg

Part number is 079903015F

Awesome thanks. Only question I have is that the mechanic I met with mentioned Audi uses a specific manufacturer for their alternators. I don't remember the exact name, but I would wonder if this one vs that one would be an issue...I'll keep digging to see if I can find the name.

[shonseb]

Valeo may be the name

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[ghoffner]

Valeo may be the name

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I think it was Bosche? (Spelling)
Dealer wants $1,118 + tax for the alternator and labor.

[ghoffner]

Now my question is...do I expect them to comp this like they did the fuel pump repair? Yes the vehicle is out of warranty by only 3 months. They covered the $1600 it took to replace both fuel pumps but obviously that wasn't the cause of the issues.

[ghoffner]

any other input?

[JamesRS5]

Your faults definitely sound battery or alternator related.

The battery should be 12.5 to 13v with the engine off, with it running you should be seeing 14+V depending on the load at the time, if you've got the ac running full blast and lights on then you may see it dip but under normal circumstances it should be 14+.

The CAN bus tends to start throwing up fault codes and warning lights as the voltage dips, I've watched similar ones coming on one by one as my battery died in my VW.
Check the chassis ground from the engine to chassis, there will probably be two, check the connections on the battery and alternator. If they are all good then it could be time for a new alternator but have the battery load tested first to ensure its good, the battery is the cheaper option by a long way!

[ghoffner]

Your faults definitely sound battery or alternator related.

The battery should be 12.5 to 13v with the engine off, with it running you should be seeing 14+V depending on the load at the time, if you've got the ac running full blast and lights on then you may see it dip but under normal circumstances it should be 14+.

The CAN bus tends to start throwing up fault codes and warning lights as the voltage dips, I've watched similar ones coming on one by one as my battery died in my VW.
Check the chassis ground from the engine to chassis, there will probably be two, check the connections on the battery and alternator. If they are all good then it could be time for a new alternator but have the battery load tested first to ensure its good, the battery is the cheaper option by a long way!

Thanks James.
Yes, with the engine running I was only seeing 13.1 V tops. I like the points you have listed to get checked and think I am going to tell that to the dealer.
My only concern is that the last time I had it into the dealership, they said the fuel pumps were the issue and replaced them both for $1600 (which obviously didn't fix anything). I got a quote on getting the alternator replaced and they want $1100 for parts and labor...which I'm okay with paying but I want to make sure that this is actually the problem first before they start changing things out.

[JamesRS5]

Absolutely, it would be upsetting to spend $1100 on an alternator only to find a $150 battery fixes the problem.

[BoostEasy]

As JamesRS5 said, there's a good change it's the battery or possibly bad ground or battery juice controller (on the side of the battery). Even alternators are rarely entirely "bad" like bad bearings etc, they usually just need brushes or a voltage regulator changed. http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...6E903803M.html

If you ever pulled and reconnected the battery cable to work on your car and put it back on, you'll see the dash light up with CELs etc for a bit. Drive it out the driveway and they all go away. My 2 BMW 335s were the same way. They don't like having their voltage messed with or reset, even when the car is "off". If your is acting like this, try the battery, cables, grounds.

[ghoffner]

As JamesRS5 said, there's a good change it's the battery or possibly bad ground or battery juice controller (on the side of the battery). Even alternators are rarely entirely "bad" like bad bearings etc, they usually just need brushes or a voltage regulator changed. http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...6E903803M.html

If you ever pulled and reconnected the battery cable to work on your car and put it back on, you'll see the dash light up with CELs etc for a bit. Drive it out the driveway and they all go away. My 2 BMW 335s were the same way. They don't like having their voltage messed with or reset, even when the car is "off". If your is acting like this, try the battery, cables, grounds.

Why would it throw codes that relate to the alternator then? I took it to a 3rd party mechanic and he was able to show me codes that read low voltage and others related to the alternator...But thanks for your input. I'm going to run what you said by Audi as well. Hopefull you and JamesRS5 are right and its just the battery...It's getting dropped off tomorrow morning so I will report back when I hear something.

[ghoffner]

Dropped it off at the dealer and the service advisor thinks it could be the alternator. He said its $160 to have it scanned but any work done after that will be covered by Audi. Pretty impressed how they have stepped up to the plate and have covered all these repairs considering my warranty ended in March.

[ghoffner]

Audi is telling me it's an Oxygen sensor??? This makes no sense.

[ghoffner]

Your faults definitely sound battery or alternator related.

The battery should be 12.5 to 13v with the engine off, with it running you should be seeing 14+V depending on the load at the time, if you've got the ac running full blast and lights on then you may see it dip but under normal circumstances it should be 14+.

The CAN bus tends to start throwing up fault codes and warning lights as the voltage dips, I've watched similar ones coming on one by one as my battery died in my VW.
Check the chassis ground from the engine to chassis, there will probably be two, check the connections on the battery and alternator. If they are all good then it could be time for a new alternator but have the battery load tested first to ensure its good, the battery is the cheaper option by a long way!

James, any input on my updates? Audi is saying its the O2 sensor now even tho I have told them about the alternator.

[ghoffner]

Or I'm wondering if it's the voltage regulator?

[ghoffner]

Alright. So my service advisor just told me that the alternator was tested and passed but my battery was tested and failed. Although, he said the mechanic recommended me not change it out and that it has a lot of life left in it.

I've heard numerous stories about low batteries causing cars like this to some really weird and crazy things. Anybody think this could be it?

However, I feel like most of what's going on between what Audi is telling me and what I have found out thru research doesn't make sense at all.

Hopefully this thread will help out somebody with similar issues in the future.

[ghoffner]

Alright, so I got the car back last Friday at noon. Dealer replaced the oxygen sensor and also put in a new battery. IMO, I really believe the issues I have been seeing were battery related. My service advisor was very adamant that the fuel pumps and the O2 sensor were both bad and needed replaced as well, but that's up for debate. Car runs fine now...but lets see if it stays this way. will update if things change.

[ghoffner]

Well the car is back in the shop. I was sitting in a parking lot tonight, at a completed stop, and the car started to act up again like seen in the videos. While the car was in drive, I pressed the gas and it wouldn't even go anywhere....it actually seemed to die. The dash, air conditioning and speakers would turn on and off and the screens flash...then they would all seem to work but if I pressed the gas everything acted up again. The dash was blinking all kinds of codes (just like the ones in the videos) and it even flashed some error saying the alternator wasn't charging the battery. LIKE I TOLD AUDI BEFORE, THE ALTERNATOR!!!
Anyway, they have the car now. I was charged for the last visit, which obviously didn't fix anything, and I'm curious what is going to come from this visit. I plan on speaking with the service manager and informing him of this entire process and I expect Audi to cover the latest repairs and refund me for the last visit.
I am also thinking about getting rid of the car. My two choices would be a 2014 RS5 or the new Lexus RCF. Any input?

[JamesRS5]

I think you've fallen out of love with the car at the moment. Let Audi sort the alternator and see how you feel once it's back running as it should be.

RCF I'm sure is a nice car to drive, but there's too much styling going on, too many angles and curves for my personal liking. It's almost like two different designers made the car, the rear is fat bulges and curves, the front is sharp angles and lines. It just doesn't go together and will age quickly.

Drive an RS5 before you make any choices, styling aside, you may be disappointed in the performance of the V8 if you're coming from the V6 S5.

[ghoffner]

I think you've fallen out of love with the car at the moment. Let Audi sort the alternator and see how you feel once it's back running as it should be.

RCF I'm sure is a nice car to drive, but there's too much styling going on, too many angles and curves for my personal liking. It's almost like two different designers made the car, the rear is fat bulges and curves, the front is sharp angles and lines. It just doesn't go together and will age quickly.

Drive an RS5 before you make any choices, styling aside, you may be disappointed in the performance of the V8 if you're coming from the V6 S5.

Do you think its unreasonable to expect Audi to cover the costs of the alternator? I'm questioning if the battery was even bad now that I saw in actual words on my dash "battery fault - alternator not charging battery". Is it possible Audi charged me for battery replacement when it was never bad to begin with? I'm just extremely unimpressed with how they have handled this entire situation, considering EVERY time I took the car into the dealer I would have video evidence of what the car is doing...but yet they still insisted on replacing things like both fuel pumps and the oxygen sensor?

The S5 I have now has the 4.2 L V8 in it. But I do plan on test driving an RS5 sometime soon.

[JamesRS5]

I would certainly be sitting down with the servicing manager and discussing the payment, perhaps discounting the battery labor costs and some of the part costs off the price of the alternator.

Write a list of parts which they have replaced but haven't cleared the fault, hopefully you have all the receipts? Just be very factual with him and show him how much you have spent so far with a fault which still hasn't been rectified. Tell him you're disappointed in the level of service you've received so far and you'd like to give them one more chance to rectify the situation before you write to AoA and ask for their advice.

Ok so the RS will feel more punchy than your current S5, see how it goes with the dealer, if you're no better off then it may be time to move on to a new car.

[ghoffner]

Just got off the phone with Audi, they said its the voltage regulator and quoted me at $1100 to replace.

[BoostEasy]

Just got off the phone with Audi, they said its the voltage regulator and quoted me at $1100 to replace.

Sorry, I lost track of this thread and wasn't watching it.

Typically to change a voltage reg all you need to do is access the back (or side) of the alternator, remove 2-4 screws and it pops right off- usually the little brushes (two little wearable metal bars with springs behind the size of pez or tic tacs candy) will extend or fall out of the reg. Then all you need to do is carefully compress the spring-backed brushes on the new regulator and pop it back onto the original alternator and that's it. Depending on the car this may be able to be done without even removing the alternator from the engine but I would plan on pulling the alternator.

I've seen pictures which show the alternator on the lower pass side of the engine but it's hard to say how difficult it will be to remove until you're under the car.



It looks like once you loosen the acc belt it's just two or more bolts to remove before the alternator comes loose and you unplug it from the harness, likely easiest done from under the car. If the bolts are easily in reach, maybe 20 min for a pro. Then swap the reg onto it and pop the alt back into place and put the belt back on.

I have a hard time believing it will take a pro with a lift much more than an hour to swap the alt out/in so where the dealer is getting $1100 from is pretty suspect unless you need to drop the engine or something to get at it.

ECS tuning has been pretty reliable for OEM parts for some of the stuff I've bought from them and they have the voltage reg for your car for $150 and the entire alternator refurbed for $550 w/core. So if you're feeling adventurous and want to save a few $$$ or have a good local indi shop, it might be worth buying just the reg and see about changing it outside of the dealer if they won't come down on their ludicrous pricing (Which I'd ask them to itemize cost breakdown).

Good luck!

[ghoffner]

Thanks for the write-up. Career wise, I'm an engineer...so something like this would be up my alley. I just don't have the means of lifting the car and having the room. (I live in the city and park in a parking garage). But I might look at buying one and taking it to a shop nearby.

It's just really sad that my warranty ended 4 months ago in March. Since then, I've had nearly $4,000 in repairs...which would have covered the cost of extending the warranty for another 4 years. I love the car but I don't have much faith in the reliability moving forward. After this is fixed, Ill be thinking long and hard about keeping it.

[BoostEasy]

I hear ya. Not something you want to tackle in a parking garage.

$4k is a lot in stuff breaking- just bad luck it seems. No one could blame you for looking into getting rid of it.

Let us know if you get it fixed properly and if it was the voltage reg.