500-600 hp 06 Audi A4 crank and head hold?

[Geraldb5s4]

One of my buddies and I are thinking about doing a fsi 2.0t build in a 06 audi a4. Obviously going to do forged pistons and rods but weren't sure if stock crank and head would work? Going to use more aggressive cam too tho didn't decide what exactly yet. What do you guys think?

[Steve Bassen]

My buddy's car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st0GGf8kc4M

IE rods, custom pistons, ferrea valvetrain, stock crank. Last dyno before tearing it down to throw into a Mk1 was 528whp (it made more after sorting some issues out, but never got it redynoed) on a 5858, spinning it past 8k. OE main bolts, ARP head bolts, IIRC. At one point early on he ate a head after the crank gear sheered its key and slipped, so I'd recommend pinning it or getting the IE press on timing gear kit.

[Firefox250]

One of my buddies and I are thinking about doing a fsi 2.0t build in a 06 audi a4. Obviously going to do forged pistons and rods but weren't sure if stock crank and head would work? Going to use more aggressive cam too tho didn't decide what exactly yet. What do you guys think?

My stock crank worked for me, but I have an IE port and polished CNC'd head. I haven't heard of any cams working well in the FSI engines. All of them have had catastrophic failures. Your biggest issue is fueling.

See my build page for all the components used.

[Steve Bassen]

IIRC my friend's GTI was running an APR HPFP, 044 LPFP, RS4 injectors, and a crap ton of meth, since he ran out of injector a long time before he was hitting 35+psi. A 5th/6th port injector setup like this for supplemental fuel at high engine loads would be awesome if adapted to an FSI motor.

http://www.edgeautosport.com/manufac...d-6-2006-2013/

[Geraldb5s4]

My stock crank worked for me, but I have an IE port and polished CNC'd head. I haven't heard of any cams working well in the FSI engines. All of them have had catastrophic failures. Your biggest issue is fueling.

See my build page for all the components used.

Yea i don't really want to do a ported head lest I have too... Still deciding on injectors - will rs4 injectors do it? (planning to run water meth too) Don't some people run the s3 cam on the fsi?

[Geraldb5s4]

See my build page for all the components used.

Dude sweet build!! Didn't read thru all 27 pages but what number are you shooting for or is it running already?

[Firefox250]

Im using RS4 injectors, Bluewater modified LPFP and magical tuning from United Motorsports. Bluewater just finished the build and I'll be picking her up on Friday.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLb...ature=youtu.be

91 octane, no meth, at 5280ft, uncorrected at the wheels.

[XanRa]

I can't imagine what that would look like closer to sea level and with good fuel...

That's very good motivation for the future

[Geraldb5s4]

Im using RS4 injectors, Bluewater modified LPFP and magical tuning from United Motorsports. Bluewater just finished the build and I'll be picking her up on Friday.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLb...ature=youtu.be

91 octane, no meth, at 5280ft, uncorrected at the wheels.

Damn!! Nice man! Why didn't you go w/ 93 octane?

[Firefox250]

91 is the highest octane at the gas stations here in Colorado.

[Geraldb5s4]

91 is the highest octane at the gas stations here in Colorado.

Cool. What turbo are you running and what rpms does it hit?

[Firefox250]

A Forced Performance HTA3073 and with the quick drive I took the car on last week I saw boost kicking in at 3500 and full boost of 30psi by 4500.

[aysix]

I had no idea a 3073 can make 500 on straight pump gas. Interesting, that's more than my 2.7.

[Geraldb5s4]

A Forced Performance HTA3073 and with the quick drive I took the car on last week I saw boost kicking in at 3500 and full boost of 30psi by 4500.

Nice!! I didn't expect it to hit that soon!

[Firefox250]

I had no idea a 3073 can make 500 on straight pump gas. Interesting, that's more than my 2.7.

Well the GTX3071 is rated at 550hp and the Forced Performance is a little bigger/modified. FP won't give out the details. It also helps have a fully built engine and awesome tuning to get that turbo up to 500hp.

[Firefox250]

Nice!! I didn't expect it to hit that soon!

I think a lot that is contributed to the .63 A/R Tial housing and the IE cylinder head.

[aluthman]

One of my buddies and I are thinking about doing a fsi 2.0t build in a 06 audi a4. Obviously going to do forged pistons and rods but weren't sure if stock crank and head would work? Going to use more aggressive cam too tho didn't decide what exactly yet. What do you guys think?

Stock head is fine, but you will want to build it if you are raising your rev limiter. Consider oversized valves though if you are aiming for big numbers. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with the stock crank.

[ericpaulyoung]

IIRC my friend's GTI was running an APR HPFP, 044 LPFP, RS4 injectors, and a crap ton of meth, since he ran out of injector a long time before he was hitting 35+psi. A 5th/6th port injector setup like this for supplemental fuel at high engine loads would be awesome if adapted to an FSI motor.

http://www.edgeautosport.com/manufac...d-6-2006-2013/

This is the best approach IMHO.

epy

[ericpaulyoung]

However, after using Split Second hardware/software, I would definitely go with a different controller. Next time I will try this for the controller:

http://store.034motorsport.com/suppl...ler-20622.html

And you can just buy the holder and fab up yourself pretty easy.

http://www.maxrpm.de/Additional-inje...ke-Performance

[bseven]

Damn!! Nice man! Why didn't you go w/ 93 octane?

That is NOT a good looking graph...You lose over 200whp in the top 2000rpms and basically have like 2000rpms of meat in your curve. Are you running out of fuel up top or something?

[bseven]

However, after using Split Second hardware/software, I would definitely go with a different controller. Next time I will try this for the controller:

http://store.034motorsport.com/suppl...ler-20622.html

And you can just buy the holder and fab up yourself pretty easy.

http://www.maxrpm.de/Additional-inje...ke-Performance

Is there really no true pfi solution for these cars? Not even a simple manifold spacer? I can't see why you couldn't use a manifold spacer, a split second controller, an external pressure regulator if needed, and then just run some braided fuel lines and a dual intank lpfp setup...The BMW 335 scene is taking OFF with this approach right now.

[ericpaulyoung]

Is there really no true pfi solution for these cars? Not even a simple manifold spacer? I can't see why you couldn't use a manifold spacer, a split second controller, an external pressure regulator if needed, and then just run some braided fuel lines and a dual intank lpfp setup...The BMW 335 scene is taking OFF with this approach right now.

link?

[bseven]

link?

You should be able to find plenty of info if you google "Motiv port fuel kit" current 335 who record is just under 900whp with 100% e85 at around 35psi on an HTAsomething or other.

[ericpaulyoung]

You should be able to find plenty of info if you google "Motiv port fuel kit" current 335 who record is just under 900whp with 100% e85 at around 35psi on an HTAsomething or other.

Thank you. I looked it up, but it is just another version of adding port injection. The Kozmic kit will do the same thing for much, much, cheaper. You can have the IE intake manifold machined out and to this, or you can weld in 4 injector bungs and do it also. Or just add an upstream kit like Kozmic. They are all the same approach, which is a good approach.

epy

[ericpaulyoung]

Looking at this spacer design more, I see what you mean. It is a really cool use of a spacer for the injector location.

[Geraldb5s4]

Is there really no true pfi solution for these cars? Not even a simple manifold spacer? I can't see why you couldn't use a manifold spacer, a split second controller, an external pressure regulator if needed, and then just run some braided fuel lines and a dual intank lpfp setup...The BMW 335 scene is taking OFF with this approach right now.

That's a really cool idea - would it work to use same spacer for water meth?

[bseven]

That's a really cool idea - would it work to use same spacer for water meth?

Yes, but why would you use a band aid for octane like meth when you can add real octane?

[bseven]

Thank you. I looked it up, but it is just another version of adding port injection. The Kozmic kit will do the same thing for much, much, cheaper. You can have the IE intake manifold machined out and to this, or you can weld in 4 injector bungs and do it also. Or just add an upstream kit like Kozmic. They are all the same approach, which is a good approach.

epy

Depending on which level kit you purchase, it comes with different items. It also comes with 50% more stuff than needed for the A4. Also, the kozmic kit may be cheaper, but it won't evenly distribute fuel like placing an injector at each port. You'll also allow the fuel more time to drop out of suspension in the air. The IE manifold would be a great option, and it is personally my preferred way to add PFI to the 2.0T. You'll still need something like the split second fuel controller and the rest of the fuel system.

Personally, I'd love to completely eliminate the DI on this god forsaken motor. Anything to eliminate the stupid hpfp/cam issues is a step forward in my book.

[Firefox250]

That is NOT a good looking graph...You lose over 200whp in the top 2000rpms and basically have like 2000rpms of meat in your curve. Are you running out of fuel up top or something?

That last run was just meant to hit over 500. Here's what I given the day before. Also yes I am running out of fuel. I need some bigger injectors than my RS4.

[bseven]

That last run was just meant to hit over 500. Here's what I given the day before. Also yes I am running out of fuel. I need some bigger injectors than my RS4.

That looks wayyyyyyy more useable and fun! With the DI, what injectors do we even have available?

[bseven]

Out of curiosity...what have people found to be the power level at which you need to start swapping out motor internals?

[Geraldb5s4]

Out of curiosity...what have people found to be the power level at which you need to start swapping out motor internals?

I think a lot say around 350 whp

[bseven]

I think a lot say around 350 whp

That's pretty good news. My motor was just replaced by AoA. So, I'm feeling a little frisky and thinking about actually modding it a bit. I have a 335i with a PTE 6466 turbo on it and the Audi is just a turd in comparison. So, I wouldn't mind 300-350awhp for daily use. I'll have to look more into it. Thanks!

[ericpaulyoung]

Yes, but why would you use a band aid for octane like meth when you can add real octane?

^^ I totally agree with this. I barely add any meth, and do just fine up to 30 psi by adding sufficient fueling to keep me between .79 and .83 lambda.

[ericpaulyoung]

Also, the kozmic kit may be cheaper, but it won't evenly distribute fuel like placing an injector at each port.

Actually you are quite wrong on this. Evaporating the fuel further upstream actually makes the mixture more homogeneous.

epy

[ericpaulyoung]

Out of curiosity...what have people found to be the power level at which you need to start swapping out motor internals?

With our engines. Immediately. Our rods suck donkey dick.

epy

[Geraldb5s4]

^^ I totally agree with this. I barely add any meth, and do just fine up to 30 psi by adding sufficient fueling to keep me between .79 and .83 lambda.

The other side benefit to meth is it keeps you running cooler...

[ericpaulyoung]

The other side benefit to meth is it keeps you running cooler...

Right, but a properly fueled engine usually runs cool enough. But I don't see how it can hurt to use it :)

[bseven]

Actually you are quite wrong on this. Evaporating the fuel further upstream actually makes the mixture more homogeneous.

epy

The further upstream you inject fuel, the worse off you are. A fuel air mixture needs quite a bit of turbulence to keep the air in solution with the air so it doesn't drop out of suspension and puddle. It's the reason you don't mirror polish intake ports on port fueled motors. You also aren't going to get an even distribution of fuel per cylinder that way. In order of acceptable to best:
Throttle body injection<port injection<direct injection.

The other side benefit to meth is it keeps you running cooler...

Meth should ONLY be used for cooling. As soon as you start setting up your tune taking meth into account, you're using it wrong and asking for trouble.

[ericpaulyoung]

Multi port injection does suffer from the issue that the injectors are never perfectly matched. So the ports are always a bit off from each other, not much but a bit. If you inject upstream properly with a misting nozzle, the fuel evaporates and it should not pool unless you condense it. I agree though if you are using a pencil nozzled injector, then yes it can drop out of the flow.

But none of that actually matters for this application. First you have to consider how we are using port injection. We are not using it for idle or low load conditions. We only start up the port or upstream injectors under seriously high loads where the flow is most turbulent and evaporation is best. In this case, you want to maximize the distance between the injection location and the engine to ensure full evaporation of the fuel. There is a good discussion on Devils Own or Snow Performance website about the injection location of meth, and even though that is for meth, the discussion is applicable to any secondary fueling setup. There are also several other conversations I have read on the same subject, and for the high load secondary fueling case, you always come back to wanting the best homogeneous mixture for full fuel burn, and this occurs for fully evaporated or very well atomized fuels. In this condition, time is your friend, and you buy time for atomized fuel mixing and evaporation by moving up stream.

epy