Bad Throw-Out Bearing - Warranty or Clutch Upgrade

[JBA87]

My 2013 B8.5 S4 (Manual Transmission) is suffering from a potentially bad throw-out bearing (I can here a clunking sound when the car is started and in neutral. The sound disappears upon engaging the clutch in neutral). Braham Audi will perform the work and the work may be warrantied, depending upon whether there is any observable wear and tear on the cluthc. The catch: Brahman requires a $2,400 security deposit to open the transmission to inspect the worn part. If the part is mechanically defective, Audi will warranty the repair and refund my $2,400. If Audi observes noticeable signs of wear and tear from hard driving, I am responsible for the $2,400 plus parts to repair. My local Audi performance shop can replace the worn part for a considerably cheaper sum (about half).

Question #1: Do I pay the $2,400 and have Audi perform the work with the possibility of having the amount refunded if the throw-out bearing is covered by warranty or do I simply eat the, say, $1,200 at my local Audi performance shop to fix the throw-out bearing.

Question #2: What is the opinion of the group that the throw-out bearing will not be covered by Audi. The S4 has 33,000 miles. The car has been driven hard from time to time with call it approximatley 5-10 launches from 3,000-4,000 RPM over the entire 33,000 miles. Other than that, I drive the car pretty softly.

Question #3. If I have my local Audi repair ship perform the warranty work, should I also upgrade the entire clutch. If so, any recommendations for a Clutch & Flywheel upgrade. Assume I go Stage II Apr. I've seen a stage III South Bend Clutch, but I don't think I need this type of performance. The car is my DD and I don't track or plan on tracking the car.

Thanks for all help.


JA

[JJP1978]

They'll probably tell you the clutch was bad and charge you regardless. Take it to an indie and upgrade the clutch.

[Dr GP]

It is my understanding that the clutch is not covered under warranty especially at 33k miles. I would go to an independent shop and have an entire new clutch assemble put in. I believe Eurocodes has a decent clutch assembly that is a available at a more reasonable price.

[JBA87]

What type of clutch upgrades is recommended. Should I do both the clutch and flywheel. Stage I, Stage II, Stage III? Or just replace the stock clutch? What about flywheel. I figure if I have an indie opening the transmission I should complete any major future transmission modifications now.

[JBA87]

@Dr Gp

The clutch is definitely not covered under the warrant. I talked with the tech, however, and he instructed that the throw-out bearing could be covered so long as there is no visible wear and tear on the clutch plate itself. I am not experiencing any clutch slippage. Oddly, the car seems to be driving fine even with the rattling noise I hear from the clutch in neutral.

[DGVR6]

If any warranty is honored for the throwout bearing.. They will charge you for the clutch. So you're probably taking home 1600 after all said and done.

Then again.. upgraded clutch really doesn't sound too bad. I think there is a recent thread here with questions about stages on a eurocode clutch.

Might as well do flywheel also.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-mine-is-TOAST

[Leor604]

I had the same issue. They said if the clutch was destroyed from abuse it would be on my dime. I told them the clutch was fine (I don't launch). When they opened it up they said clutch showed no signs of abuse and they covered the throwout bearing and clutch fork under warranty.

How confident are you that your clutch is in good shape and not burned and hot spotted?

[1Fireforge]

What Leor said. Is the clutch slipping at all? What about really notchy shifting or a hard clutch pedal? If everything still shifts like butter and the clutch is not slipping, I think you have a good chance to get this done under warranty, because there is still life in the clutch. They are looking for major damage and a clutch worn down to the rivets. If there is reasonable wear and tear on the clutch for 33k, but no indication of major hot spots and excessive wear, then they should do this under warranty. Since it's already open, I would strongly suggest springing for a new OEM clutch disc (~$250 + labor). The OEM should get you another 50k down the road, even if you decide to tune later on. Also, insist in writing that you get to examine the clutch disc yourself. You can see an example of my toasted clutch disc here: http://www.raisedheels.com/images/clutch/IMG_1011.jpg (I can get you more pics if you like).

To check slippage, go 50mph down the highway in 6th and then floor it - if your RPMs take off and then settle, your clutch is slipping. I would also ask them to knock $400 off of the service price (they did this for me when I needed to replace my clutch at 30k). I said to them that I really want Audi to do the work, but the major places are all doing it for about $1500 (10h of book labor times ~$150). For me, $500, it's worth the chance of getting the entire thing done under warranty.

[JBA87]

Thank you. This is all quite helpful. I'm fairly confident that the clutch is not slipping. I've had a cluctch go bad before in my VW GTI. I don't have any tell tale symptoms. The only symptom I have seen is a very slight fluttering of the RPM in neutral. My only concern is that I have dumped the clutch at 3500-4000 grand at least five times before. Also, I have experiend bad clutch slippage while accelerating hard off the line and smelt a bad clutch burning smell befor, but that has only happened a few times and is by no means the norm. My concern is the few times of aggressive driving may have created noticeable wear. The car isn't slipping during daily driving or during most attempts at aggressive driving/acceleraton. thoughts? Car is already at dealer and and they are awaiting my green light to open tranny.

[Chandler]

Independent shop. 2k+ in cost is to much for even a clutch disk and bearing plus labor imo. Upgrade, spend 2-3k on it.

[JBA87]

My biggest concern is that Audi may see noticeable burn from a few aggressive launches wherein I could smell burnt clutch. I'm just not knowledgeable enough as to whether a few hard launches will be visibly noticeable by the mechanic to deny a warranty claim. Does anyone know what one might see on the clutch if I have performed say 5-6 hard launches with the smell of burning clutch .. The dealer kept referring to a noticeable blue mark on the clutch. I am assuming that launchingr the car hard can create those marks.. But does it take just one hard launch to create those kinds of makes... It seems a little unfair that you cannot drive your sportscar hard without risking the denial of legitimate warranty work... Again other than those few launches the car is driven relatively tame ..

[1Fireforge]

I think you need to push on your dealer and get pictures of the clutch. If there is plenty of material left on the clutch, even if there is a blue mark, then you don't have a busted clutch disc. Everyone drops the clutch now and again, and it just takes one mistake to make one of those.

[D-Press]

My biggest concern is that Audi may see noticeable burn from a few aggressive launches wherein I could smell burnt clutch. I'm just not knowledgeable enough as to whether a few hard launches will be visibly noticeable by the mechanic to deny a warranty claim. Does anyone know what one might see on the clutch if I have performed say 5-6 hard launches with the smell of burning clutch .. The dealer kept referring to a noticeable blue mark on the clutch. I am assuming that launchingr the car hard can create those marks.. But does it take just one hard launch to create those kinds of makes... It seems a little unfair that you cannot drive your sportscar hard without risking the denial of legitimate warranty work... Again other than those few launches the car is driven relatively tame ..

I slipped my clutch a few times at the drag strip too...my old OEM clutch is still in the trunk, I'll try to snap a few pics to show the damages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_lGJXZQ1Pc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdcjDuYfbYs

I did complain a few times to my dealer about my "creeky/noisy/springy/sticky" clutch pedal and also hard to press when hot....they first said that my clutch was due for a replacement and it was not covered by Audi...
After a lot of research and a good talk with the manager, they accepted to open the tranny and replace the faulty parts under TSB 2022990 rev.4 (throwout bearing, guide sleeve, release arm, fork) & TSB 2025119 rev.2 (faulty clutch pin)...

[1Fireforge]

>> TSB 2035454 (throwout bearing, guide sleeve, release arm, fork) & TSB 2025119 (faulty clutch pin)...[/QUOTE]

I found the first TSB on Erwin, but it says this:

Engine / Cylinder head, valvetrain / Contamination
01 V6 message during service reset: AIR system - action required - observe test plan

I couldn't find the other TSB though. Any chance you might have copies?

[D-Press]

>> TSB 2035454 (throwout bearing, guide sleeve, release arm, fork) & TSB 2025119 (faulty clutch pin)...

I found the first TSB on Erwin, but it says this:

Engine / Cylinder head, valvetrain / Contamination
01 V6 message during service reset: AIR system - action required - observe test plan

I couldn't find the other TSB though. Any chance you might have copies?

Sorry I corrected the first TSB (#2022990 rev.4)...you will find a few other members here who had the same problem.

As for the second TSB, it's not written on the work order (2025119 rev.2), but my SA wrote it on a post-it when took the car.