2012 S4 DSG TCM Issue with TD1...AOA no help!!!

[booosteda4]

I have searched and searched on many Audi forums and wanted to just write a post about my issue..since I couldn't find a direct answer.

I bought my car almost 5 months ago from a small dealer with 28k on it. It's a 2012 S4 DSG Prestige. I went to the Audi dealer down the street and had them run the VIN for any service history or TD1 being recorded. The service guy mentioned it was only in for service for minor things and the 5k service and another couple oil changes. No TD1 or transmission issues. So I went ahead and bought the car. I know I should of brought the car to that dealer and paid for a pre-inspection..but the dealer I bought it from was 2 hours away from me. I drove the car and didn't notice anything really weird with hard shifting etc. I have driven several B8/B8.5 S4's before this one.

On the way home from the dealer..a 2 hour drive..I was stuck in slow moving traffic and noticed a couple hard/delayed shifts when down in 1 to 2 .. 2 to 1 gears. I drove it for about 1k miles and then brought it in to my local Audi dealer for a pre-purchase inspection which I paid $180 for. I told them about my transmission issues too.

They returned the car to me and said everything was ok on the car and the mechanic could not replicate the transmission hard shifting issues. They made sure all the software updates on the ECU and TCM etc were up to date and they were.

I told them I would come back to make an appointment to have the mechanic drive with me..to try to get the car to replicate the hard shifting. Also they noted the 35K service was coming up and maybe the new oil would help out.

I drive a lot..so the 35k service came right up. I bought it 5 months ago and I have put 10k on it since I bought it already.

So I brought it in for the 35k at like 34.5k. Also mentioned it's still having the trans issues and had the mechanic come with me..he noticed some issue in hard shifts but not the delay in shift.

They did the 35k service and reset the TCM control to re-learn my driving style. I drove the car for almost 2k and no change in how it shifted and delayed in shifting. I brought the car back and told them as before..I know there is a history for TCM and Mechtronic issues with these transmissions and something is wrong. They came back and said that the TCM needs to be replaced as well as a ECM Software update and a breather to be replaced. They also mentioned that there was a TD1 flag on my car at 5k..and this work would not be covered!!

Now I asked them when I did the pre-purchase inspection if it had a TD1 on it..they said NO.. also I asked the dealer when running my VIN and they said NO.

I have had a local GIAC dealer scan my ECU and they found no software on it currently..so it was something the previous owner did when they bought it. I also called the dealership it was bought at NEW and also the dealer that flagged it a TD1 if they sold Stasis or any ECU tuning company in 2011-2012..they said NO.

So now...my car has been shifting worse since they found the TCM being bad..and AOA has been no help!!

I called AOA the night after getting my car back and being denied the warranty work. I told them the history of the issues and work I have done and they said they would review it and get back to me in a few days. 5 days later I call them and giving them the file #... they said there was no record of the file #!!

So then I had to tell the story again and told them I paid to have the car pre-inspected and NO TD1 came up..and also the dealer noted on 3 invoices the transmission inspection work was covered under warranty. I have had them review it again and again. Still denied.

This is ridiculous!! The dealer should be responsible for this mistake...I paid for a pre-inspection and they didn't mention that at 5k my Powertrain Warranty was Expired!!

Anyone know a way to contact someone else but some stupid AOA phone rep??

I will be talking to my dealership where I bought it..since they said it had a factory warranty and technically it did not!

I will also be talking to my local dealer that did not do their job on the pre-inspection and let me know my PTW is voided!

I am also waiting to hear back from a AOA supervisor about my claim tomorrow.

Thanks.

[malish]

That sucks man. Apparently td1 gets wiped off the dealer computer when the ecu is flashed back to stock, but it does stay on the main Audi server. It won't come up at a first glance.


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[the4siswickid]

Not good man, sorry to hear. Keep us posted. Sounds like fraud. This should have been caught before sale and disclosed. Do you have any paperwork indicating you purchased the vehicle with the remainder of the factory warranty? Usually they'll put that on the sticker....


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[Thumper3]

Was this a CPO purchase?

Either way, they sold you a car with a warranty claimed to be intact, if AoA is not going to honor the warranty then you would have two choices as far as I see it. The dealership that sold it needs to honor it. They can't sell you a car (even if you hadn't done the legwork you did getting it checked out) and advise you it has a warranty.......and then when an issue arises claim it does NOT have a warranty due to something that was done to it prior to you buying it. They already admitted they flagged it at 5k miles, well before you bought it, so unless your paperwork says it was sold AS IS, then someone has to honor that warranty.

Other option is take them to court under Mag-Moss and make them prove how the tune caused the failure. That's a PITA and frankly shouldn't be needed since they screwed up in the first place.

[FiftyFive]

I can't be of much help but wanted to wish you good luck. Sounds like such a pain in the ass.

[Dthquazi]

Get all of the documents that you got when getting the car checked out, including receipts and the window sticker if you got one. Go to a local lawyer. If one specializes in such a thing and is close they would be better. If not find a general lawyer. Grab a business card from them and staple them together. Card on top. Then go to the dealer and show them any documents you have. See if they change their tune.

[shonseb]

Lawyer up. If you win and when you win, send the lawyer fees to the dealer.

[RickFLS4]

I read the first post as OP bought a non-CPO car from a non-Audi dealer so I doubt that dealer made any representations with respect to TD1. Not sure how to reconcile 2 subsequent Audi dealers saying it isn't TD1 (one when running the VIN) and another performing the PPI after the purchase. Perhaps it only is known to dealers when the try to submit a warranty claim not when just scanning, although that really calls into question the CPO program - if they didn't catch this, how would they catch another during CPO? This is what happens when people lease cars, tune them and then flash back to stock before turning in the car at lease end, I guess - you screw someone else.

OP, really sorry to hear. Sounds like it is going to be a major PITA to resolve. Eventually I hope you get in touch with someone at AoA that can help. Paying a dealer for a PPI (even after purchase) might help since their records will show a TD1 flag prior to that inspection, although even if they caught it during that PPI, you already owned the car and would probably be in the same position. Not sure running the VIN at first dealer will help but you might be able to connect the subsequent PPI fail with the first dealer running the VIN to claim they wouldn't have caught it even if you did the PPI when first dealer ran the VIN before buying the car. Personally, I wouldn't call a lawyer until you have exhausted all your energy trying to address it yourself. Even then, a lawyer could cost as much as the repair and unless you have another car, you'll probably need to go out of pocket to pay for the repair and get the lawyer to recover the costs since it might take a long time.

[amz]

Lawyer up. Walk into the dealership with the lawyer, go right to the service person you spoke with for the PPI and let the lawyer introduce them self and start asking questions...see if the dealership changes their tune then.

[KRp220]

I am local to you and in Portsmouth all the time, welcome to the forum. The first problem with this situation is that you went to Stratham Audi most likely. Ive dealt with pretty much every audi dealer on around boston and seacoast NH. They are by far the worst dealership I have ever stepped foot in. From the customer service to the mechanics, its like they are completely clueless all the time. It blows my mind that people actually take their cars there, especially porsches. There is a reason I drive all the way to Natick to get my car serviced. I would try another dealer and see what they say. I am assuming you went to east coast European as the local GIAC dealer. They are real good, if they said there was no flash on the history then there wasn't. My guess is since you brought up TDI to the dealer they figured out a way to charge you, since you were worried about it. Also FYI I have had my share of mechatronics issues if you have any questions.

i'm also in portsmouth and assumed the same things you did

OP - why haven't i seen you around?!

stratham sucks with the exception of a few people. Did you deal with Casey? I had an issue with my old B7 and was able to talk to Rui (the Audi Gm) and he tried to help me a little, but he is over at Porsche now. AoA was USELESS.

do you have anything in writing about not having TD1?

[anerbe]

Sorry to hear the story. It makes the process very complicated by purchasing from a non-Audi dealer (from what it sounds like).

I know it's in hindsight, but your best option is to run the vin with both the dealer and AoA directly (call or use their online chat). I'm pretty sure they can check all the warranty status of the vehicle, as there's been stories of TD1 flags not consistent between the dealer and AoA.

Ultimately, you should only care about AoA's system, as they broadcast what car they will approve warranty repairs.

Keep the pressure up. You can't blame the independent dealer, as they buy cars and sell, with no access to the Audi systems. Keep pressing the Audi dealer that inspected the vehicle. See if you can work out an aftermarket warranty with them or some sort of good-will gesture with the dealer and AoA. Also try your local dealer.

Good luck.

[RainJer]

Lawyer up. If you win and when you win, send the lawyer fees to the dealer.

^ This

[dzasta]

I am local to you and in Portsmouth all the time, welcome to the forum. The first problem with this situation is that you went to Stratham Audi most likely. Ive dealt with pretty much every audi dealer on around boston and seacoast NH. They are by far the worst dealership I have ever stepped foot in. From the customer service to the mechanics, its like they are completely clueless all the time. It blows my mind that people actually take their cars there, especially porsches. There is a reason I drive all the way to Natick to get my car serviced. I would try another dealer and see what they say. I am assuming you went to east coast European as the local GIAC dealer. They are real good, if they said there was no flash on the history then there wasn't. My guess is since you brought up TDI to the dealer they figured out a way to charge you, since you were worried about it. Also FYI I have had my share of mechatronics issues if you have any questions.

I also recommend the Nashua, NH dealership as well they should be much closer than Natick. They are really good and ask for Mark as your SA. that's where i took my A3 (now S4) and i didn't even buy either car from there. Still get a loaner and everything. pretty mod friendly as well.

[Maitre Absolut]

I'm gonna bookmark this thread to look at everytime i think of getting a tune

[Usa]

I'm gonna bookmark this thread to look at everytime i think of getting a tune

Flash back to stock, no TD1. This isn't a reason to not get a tune, this is a reason to buy from an audi dealership.

[The Fat Kid]

I also recommend the Natick, NH dealership as well they should be much closer than Natick. They are really good and ask for Mark as your SA. that's where i took my A3 (now S4) and i didn't even buy either car from there. Still get a loaner and everything. pretty mod friendly as well.

Natick, MA or Natick, NH? They have a big S4 selection at Audi Natick (MA) and I might take a ride out next weekend. It isn't the most convenient location coming from Somerville, but I would definitely go to purchase/service if they are recommended and mod friendly.

[JSLee]

Flash back to stock, no TD1. This isn't a reason to not get a tune, this is a reason to buy from an audi dealership.

+1

I would never buy any Euro car not from their respective dealership.. That's just me maybe..

[The Fat Kid]

Flash back to stock, no TD1. This isn't a reason to not get a tune, this is a reason to buy from an audi dealership.

I am confused. I thought the dealer's computer can still tell something changed (ECU time stamp, perhaps?) even if you flash back to stock, and they flag you?

[Maitre Absolut]

Flash back to stock, no TD1. This isn't a reason to not get a tune, this is a reason to buy from an audi dealership.

Whatever helps you sleep at night

You realize this means going back to the shop where you got tuned, paying for the removal, going in for service, going back to the shop to get retuned EVERYTIME YOU TAKE YOUR CAR IN.

Say your DSG goes and you need to get towed. You gonna stop to get reflashed flashed first? LOL

The odds are slim, but I purchased new for a reason. Its called peace of mind.

[dzasta]

Natick, MA or Natick, NH? They have a big S4 selection at Audi Natick (MA) and I might take a ride out next weekend. It isn't the most convenient location coming from Somerville, but I would definitely go to purchase/service if they are recommended and mod friendly.

Fixed my post. I meant to say Nashua, NH.

[mgaman]

That really sucks man :(

You did some pretty good due diligence, even if you didn't get the pre-inspection first you still got one immediately after and continued to follow up with the dealership. I'd start looking at lawyers who are willing to pass their fees onto the dealers if you win and in the meantime keep hammering AoA. Squeaky wheel has power, even in this day and age.

[booosteda4]

Thanks guys..it fing sucks.

I just got off the phone with a supervisor at AoA and she was worthless. She couldn't tell me when the car was flagged a TD1..only that reading the last invoice (the only invoice of 4) that it says a TD1 and the warranty is void. I told them I had the service rep at Audi Stratham look it up and noticed at the 5k service the TD1 was changed. The AoA rep said she didn't see this.

This is what I get for going to a non-audi dealer!

So now I have to hash it out with Audi of Stratham.. I paid for a PPI and said I had trans issues right after I bought it and asked if it was a TD1 and they said no. It seems Audi's service system is Shit for relaying the TD1 info unless a major claim comes up to AoA for approval.

I know it doesn't have any software file on it now or since I owned it.

I will keep you updated but this is BEYONE pissing me off daily and my car has been driving like shit since the last service visit when they realized the TCM was bad.

I don't want to pay the $1300 to fix this and then just have it be the Mechtronics unit.. I am not paying 8k for that shit.

[amz]

Thanks guys..it fing sucks.

I just got off the phone with a supervisor at AoA and she was worthless. She couldn't tell me when the car was flagged a TD1..only that reading the last invoice (the only invoice of 4) that it says a TD1 and the warranty is void. I told them I had the service rep at Audi Stratham look it up and noticed at the 5k service the TD1 was changed. The AoA rep said she didn't see this.

This is what I get for going to a non-audi dealer!

So now I have to hash it out with Audi of Stratham.. I paid for a PPI and said I had trans issues right after I bought it and asked if it was a TD1 and they said no. It seems Audi's service system is Shit for relaying the TD1 info unless a major claim comes up to AoA for approval.

I know it doesn't have any software file on it now or since I owned it.

I will keep you updated but this is BEYONE pissing me off daily and my car has been driving like shit since the last service visit when they realized the TCM was bad.

I don't want to pay the $1300 to fix this and then just have it be the Mechtronics unit.. I am not paying 8k for that shit.

Does your state have lemon laws that might be applicable?

[The Fat Kid]

Does your state have lemon laws that might be applicable?

I just remembered that one of my customers (works at an auto shop) told me that there are pretty strict laws regarding selling used cars in MA, so NH might be similarly strict. Contact NH's Attorney General's Office (http://business.nh.gov/ConsumerComplaint/) about the situation and then call the dealer back; they might suddenly honor your warranty.

Good luck!

[booosteda4]

I just remembered that one of my customers (works at an auto shop) told me that there are pretty strict laws regarding selling used cars in MA, so NH might be similarly strict. Contact NH's Attorney General's Office (http://business.nh.gov/ConsumerComplaint/) about the situation and then call the dealer back; they might suddenly honor your warranty.

Good luck!

I bought the car at Foley Motorsports in Shrewsbury Mass..so it was in Mass. I found the paperwork on the warranty they gave me on the Mass Warranty Law and it was only 90 days..If Audi of Stratham told me it was a TD1 when I first brought it in.. I would of tried Foley but they didn't tell me until just pass the 90 days Mass law.

Does anyone know a good type of Lawyer that could help me?

[Thumper3]

Whatever helps you sleep at night

You realize this means going back to the shop where you got tuned, paying for the removal, going in for service, going back to the shop to get retuned EVERYTIME YOU TAKE YOUR CAR IN.

Say your DSG goes and you need to get towed. You gonna stop to get reflashed flashed first? LOL

The odds are slim, but I purchased new for a reason. Its called peace of mind.

Forget purchase, if I was purchasing I'd tune no issue. I lease and am more worried about "damage" fees at lease turn in. LOL

Either way, the issues/concerns (plus fact closest tuner is 60 miles away) you mention are why I won't tune until Uni gets the Home flash released.


OP - Lemon Laws will not affect this, lemon laws are for manufacture defects that are unsolvable.

Best bet to is to head down the Magnuson-Moss road. They are denying your warranty for being tuned, they have not determined in anyway that the tune is the cause of the issue. Since it has already been escalated to AoA it's unlikely switching dealers will help, as the second AoA sees the VIN on warranty paperwork they will put the kibosh on it.

You have it a bit better than the normal case as A) you are not the one that tuned it and B) you took viable steps within the manufacture's dealer network to determine if it was tuned. If it goes to trial, the jury will likely be very sympathetic to your side.

[ZChicagoS4]

I would consider breach of contract on top of Magnuson moss.

[booosteda4]

Forget purchase, if I was purchasing I'd tune no issue. I lease and am more worried about "damage" fees at lease turn in. LOL

Either way, the issues/concerns (plus fact closest tuner is 60 miles away) you mention are why I won't tune until Uni gets the Home flash released.


OP - Lemon Laws will not affect this, lemon laws are for manufacture defects that are unsolvable.

Best bet to is to head down the Magnuson-Moss road. They are denying your warranty for being tuned, they have not determined in anyway that the tune is the cause of the issue. Since it has already been escalated to AoA it's unlikely switching dealers will help, as the second AoA sees the VIN on warranty paperwork they will put the kibosh on it.

You have it a bit better than the normal case as A) you are not the one that tuned it and B) you took viable steps within the manufacture's dealer network to determine if it was tuned. If it goes to trial, the jury will likely be very sympathetic to your side.

What is the Magnuson-Moss road? Lawyer up?

[The Fat Kid]

What is the Magnuson-Moss road? Lawyer up?

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act relates to aftermarket parts affecting warranties: http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...ne-maintenance

They suggest contacting your state's AG or the FTC at the end of the article.

[blackfunk]

You may need to contact your states consumer protection agency and file an official complaint. Ultimately AoA will pay for your repairs BUT only because its cheaper for them to do so than having to fight you in court. You however don't want to go to court because its expensive. Using a lawyer at this point will only cost you money and delay your claim getting processed. Once you introduce an attorney then AoA will do the same. This process will take quite a while, so use that as your last resort.

Seems like the spirit of the law is on your side however Audi maybe standing on shaky legal footing but they hold all the cards.

Best of luck.

[booosteda4]

So I talked to Foley Motorsports and they are going to pay for the TCM replacement...if it doesn't fix the problem I will then go after AoA for the Mechtronics or Trans depending on what they say then.

I have a feeling it's not the TCM but since the TCM is updated with ECU software updated also...that should be done anyways.

Why is Foley covering the costs...Mass has a warranty law and even since it's after the 90 days the law states..I brought the car in to Audi with issues within the first 10 days of owning the car..so they sold me a car with a voided power train warranty..that's a bad on their part.

I will keep this page updated.

[AudiA4Style]

So I talked to Foley Motorsports and they are going to pay for the TCM replacement...if it doesn't fix the problem I will then go after AoA for the Mechtronics or Trans depending on what they say then.

I have a feeling it's not the TCM but since the TCM is updated with ECU software updated also...that should be done anyways.

Why is Foley covering the costs...Mass has a warranty law and even since it's after the 90 days the law states..I brought the car in to Audi with issues within the first 10 days of owning the car..so they sold me a car with a voided power train warranty..that's a bad on their part.

I will keep this page updated.

Damn that sucks but I hope the TCM replacement takes care of the shifting issues.

[The Fat Kid]

So I talked to Foley Motorsports and they are going to pay for the TCM replacement...if it doesn't fix the problem I will then go after AoA for the Mechtronics or Trans depending on what they say then.

I have a feeling it's not the TCM but since the TCM is updated with ECU software updated also...that should be done anyways.

Why is Foley covering the costs...Mass has a warranty law and even since it's after the 90 days the law states..I brought the car in to Audi with issues within the first 10 days of owning the car..so they sold me a car with a voided power train warranty..that's a bad on their part.

I will keep this page updated.

That is good news. Hopefully everything is fixed quickly so you can actually enjoy your car.

[drob23]

I thought the TCM was buried inside the mech unit?

[booosteda4]

OK so Audi of Stratham is a bunch of idiots that are just A - Wasting my time B- Fucking me over around every turn!!!

So here is some shit now... Audi of Stratham told me it was a TCM to be replaced and the ECU software update and a breather under the SC which is a known issue by Audi. After fighting with AoA on this topic and them denying the claim I talk to Foley Motorsports and they said they will do the repair for me (since they sold me a car with a voided power train warranty)

Now before I bring the car to Foley ... I went to Audi of Stratham and they did the Fuel Rail Recall for me. Now they only said it was the new fuel rail...Come to find out I don't need a new TCM..just a software update on the TCM and ECU and that the breather is under the SC so it's a labor intensive job and then for a $55 part it's $1370 to the software updates and replace that breather tube. OK so thanks Audi of Stratham for not telling me it's not a new TCM but just software updates. I was arguing with AoA for the wrong thing the whole time!! WTF!

Ohh do you know what else is in the fule rail recall??!?!?!?! The thermostat housing..Do you know how to replace that.. Remove the fing SC.. Do you know what Audi of Stratham never asked me...Ohhh while we have the SC off do you want us to replace that $55 part so we can update the software? I would of 100% paid for the part but NOOOOO they didn't!!

You know what else I just found out after bringing the car to Foley 1.5 hour drive away?!?!?! They brought the car to Audi Shrewsbury and it seems that the recall done actually includes a fix for the breather tube and they already updated the ECU software. Thanks Audi of Stratham for not even mentioning this to me.
So now Foley is having Audi Shrewsbury update the TCM software to match.

Not Foley said he talked to the Service Manager at Audi Shrewsbury and they said that since the ECU has the new software on it they might remove the TD1 flag on the car... Now I don't believe that Audi would do this..since the entire time I have had the car and fighting them it hasn't had software on the ECU.

Anyone hear about AoA removing a TD1 flag?

[4RCFED]

What a PITA, sorry it's such a headache OP. Never heard of them reversing a TD1 though.

[UberBrute]

There is a post somewhere on this forum in the last year, where a guy bought a cpo car, found out it had a TD1, and it was reversed after it was verified that there was no software on the car. I believe the thread is somewhere in the b8 a4 section

[UberBrute]

here it is http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...te-need-advice

[The Fat Kid]

Someone posted a letter from AoA stating that they would remove the TD1 and do warranty work if the owner flashed back to stock. Someone else went to buy a CPO'd S4, only to realize it had been traded in by another AZ user because it had been TD1'd, but there was no TD1 on its service history.

I get the impression that Audi can, and does, remove the TD1 badge by reformatting the ECU.

[booosteda4]

Well the car seems to drive a lot better..but still seems odd when hard acceleration and shifting into 1-2 .. almost like it lags when shifting into power. Not like the rest of the gears were it shifts quickly once.

I actually tried and it went through..and email to Scott Keogh the AoA President and received a response from April who deals with the highest escalation's of AoA. I talked to her tonight and told her how bad my customer service has been with Audi of Stratham and Audi overall. She said it's really Audi of Germany that places the TD1 and they are strict about it. I filed a complaint with her against Audi of Stratham and she said to call her directly if I have another issue..but she cannot guarantee any decision.

Now Audi of Shrewsbury showed me the TD1 is removed...but they would still have to call Audi Warranty to get a claim covered and she doesn't know if it will kick back with the TD1 again.

We will see how it goes..I have driven the car around 500 miles since last week and it drives 90% better..almost like normal. Except for the odd shifting from 1-2 which I think is the Mechtronics valving in first gear having issues.