Flywheel Replacement - do I need it?

[1Fireforge]

Hi all, could use a bit of advice from some members fairly quickly, as my B8 S4 is currently in the shop getting its clutch replaced. It's a 2012, only about 30k miles on it, and the clutch was slipping pretty miserably (it went from an occasional slip to all over the place in the space of like a week!). It's apart now, and I'm hoping that I don't have to replace the flywheel with so few miles on it, and I made sure to have the techs send me some pictures of the flywheel. They'll be sending more, but here is what I have so far. I was hoping you guys could tell me if it still looks in decent shape (if you can even tell) so that they won't hamstring me for another grand+ for the flywheel. Not sure why there is clutch dust at what appears to be rather even angles around the flywheel, but I'd sure appreciate any advice or comments =)

Some background - got it used at around 28k, and the clutch seemed pretty heavy and grippy, perhaps an AM (though I haven't gotten confirmation of that yet). I did find it odd that they didn't take pics of the clutch or PP, but I'll ask. I keep hoping for some magical warranty issue to raise its head, but there's no grinding or sandiness, and I don't see any oil or leakage. Lots of stop-and-go in the S.F. Bay area, so if this was a performance clutch, that certainly could have done it in. Doesn't appear to be tuned, since it performs pretty closely to the loaner S4 that I've got =)

[S4_V6T]

I would recommend changing the flywheel especially if you are already fixing the clutch. I have done so on my past few vehicles when I needed the clutch replaced.
If you are considering tuning the car at some point, I would also recommend installing an uprated clutch/flywheel combo. I recently done so with the JHM clutch and SMFW after originally considering an OEM clutch and flywheel. My car is tuned with the APR Stage 2+ tune and hardware and ultimately I did not want to have to replace the OEM clutch again (which I believe I would have had to do at some point again in the future).
In all honesty, the clutch is the weak point in our cars and if you are thinking off keeping the car for a while I would definitely fit an uprated kit.

[1Fireforge]

Thanks very much for the comment - talking with the dealer, they are leaning towards replacing the flywheel due to the indication of "hot spots" (the black marks), though they look more like clutch dust buildup to me. I'll get more pics soon to be sure. I went to the dealer since I thought there might be something with a warranty issue with only 30k, and they gave me a bit of a deal when I told them how much indie shops were charging for the same job. Plus, the loaner S4 is a pretty good deal. Still, they seem very local and the dealership was inclined to believe that we would get chatter and slippage if we didn't install a new flywheel. Just not keen to fork out the extra grand+ especially if I'm eventually going to get a tune and need to replace the clutch again.

I also just got pics back of the shredded clutch and pressure plate, both of which appear to be OEM. A previous dealer thought that I had an AM clutch installed because of the "grabbiness" of the clutch and how it was far more difficult to push the clutch pedal than a standard Audi clutch. So far, it looks like I'm going to be out of pocket on this since there's no oil spray or other indications that this is anything other than someone trashing the clutch really hard. One of the downsides to buying used, I suppose. I feel like I'm caring for a rescue greyhound =)

[d.p]

Good question, your flywheel looks ok to me. However some will say deposits or grooves on it can cause issue with a new clutch. You can re-surface if you find a place that does dual mass resurfacing, however you may be hard pressed finding one. As you already know new flywheels for this car are not cheap by any means.

Can always go for an aftermarket LWFW + clutch if you have plans on tuning it.

[MYFASTA4]

I would change it, theres a few aftermarket solutions if dealer doesn't cover it jhm motorsports has some.

[Dr GP]

I have read on this forum that the Meisterwerk clutch assemblies and flywheels are just as good as the JHM mand significantly less costly, I have no experience with either. Can anyone confirm or dispute this? http://www.ecodetuning.com/shop/cart..._detail&p=2300

[fitzydude]

If i had to do it again I wouldn't have replaced it or refinished it.. FYI, I also got a new LUK flywheel on Rockauto for ~600.

Looking at Rock auto I may have got the last one... Sorry

[D-Press]

If i had to do it again I wouldn't have replaced it or refinished it.. FYI, I also got a new LUK flywheel on Rockauto for ~600.

Looking at Rock auto I may have got the last one... Sorry

Concerning your new clutch setup, what are your impression compared to the OEM clutch?

My car is going in next week for the hard clutch TSB and since they will open up the tranny, the dealer asked me to decide if I want to replace the PP and clutch without any additional cost. I will reuse my oem flywheel since I don't want to invest too much money on the car.
I did alot of research and I'm still debating between the Eurocode Stage 2 and the JHM Stage 3....

[Vogz]

Good question, your flywheel looks ok to me. However some will say deposits or grooves on it can cause issue with a new clutch. You can re-surface if you find a place that does dual mass resurfacing, however you may be hard pressed finding one. As you already know new flywheels for this car are not cheap by any means.

Can always go for an aftermarket LWFW + clutch if you have plans on tuning it.

How did you determine that his flywheel "looks ok"? There are no pictures showing the flywheel friction surface.

[Vogz]

OP, I would replace the flywheel/clutch with upgraded aftermarket parts if you drive aggressively or ever plan on upping the power with a tune/pulley. I have a EuroCode setup sitting in my basement that will be replacing the occasionally slipping stock unit this spring.

[1Fireforge]

Thanks, all, for the feedback. Vogz, that was my thought as well - he said that more pictures would be forthcoming of the action surface of the flywheel, but I haven't seen them as yet. I'd be tempted to do a JHM upgrade, but I'm still crossing my fingers (perhaps foolishly) that the dealer will bat for me due to only being at 30k...

[chaos2984]

I think hes talking about the flex plate there. The flex plate looks fine from the pics. What you need to inspect for is cracking around where the flywheel bolts to the flex plate. Around the bolt holes is all. Usually the flex plate lasts the entire life of the car. There is usually no need to replace it. But your actually flywheel is in the pic where the clutch disc is sitting on. You need to post pics of that. If it looks like the pressure plate surface you might need to replace it but first, you need to take a right angle grinder and get a scotch brite or some soft abrasive pad on there.(and tech will know what I mean) http://www.mscdirect.com/product/det...S_010=54566252 like those there. just go around the whole flywheel clutch friction surface and just clean it up. Most of is usually just cleans right up. Once clean you need to inspect for excessive heat spots and and micro cracking. Will look like a spider web kind of. But if it all cleans up with the sanding pad you are good for reuse.

[d.p]

How did you determine that his flywheel "looks ok"? There are no pictures showing the flywheel friction surface.

My bad, quick glance thought I was looking at it when I wasn't.

[infinkc]

i would say if you can find a machine shop that could resurface the flywheel you will be ok, they are supposed to be replaced per the books.
the cheapest for a stock flywheel is http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LW6CSCE/...=I5KH3WGAE1XJC
but they are out of stock at the moment.

When it comes time for mine, i will be going aftermarket.

[chaos2984]

i would say if you can find a machine shop that could resurface the flywheel you will be ok, they are supposed to be replaced per the books.
the cheapest for a stock flywheel is http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LW6CSCE/...=I5KH3WGAE1XJC
but they are out of stock at the moment.

When it comes time for mine, i will be going aftermarket.

Are you kidding me. Don't listen to this at all. You DO NOT replace your flywheel when you do a clutch. You only REPLACE your flywheel if there is something wrong with it. DO not listen to anything who tells you to replace it. That is just throwing money in the trash. You only replace it if its damaged, aka and gouges in it, heavy heat marks that wont come out after sanding it, or any cracking. That's it. Most of the time you don't even need to machine it either. You only machine if the surface is uneven. But ususally with that you will have to replace it because you will have heavy heat spots and they ususally wont come out with machining. All of the clutches I have done you just sand the surface and its good to go, no issues.

The only time I suggest replacement anyways is if you can just change the friction surface. It will unbolt from the flywheel. And its fairly cheap like 100-200 tops and for that price you might as well

[infinkc]

Are you kidding me. Don't listen to this at all. You DO NOT replace your flywheel when you do a clutch. You only REPLACE your flywheel if there is something wrong with it. DO not listen to anything who tells you to replace it. That is just throwing money in the trash. You only replace it if its damaged, aka and gouges in it, heavy heat marks that wont come out after sanding it, or any cracking. That's it. Most of the time you don't even need to machine it either. You only machine if the surface is uneven. But ususally with that you will have to replace it because you will have heavy heat spots and they ususally wont come out with machining. All of the clutches I have done you just sand the surface and its good to go, no issues.

The only time I suggest replacement anyways is if you can just change the friction surface. It will unbolt from the flywheel. And its fairly cheap like 100-200 tops and for that price you might as well

i didn't say to replace it, i said to resurface it if you can find a shop, if not buy one.

[1Fireforge]

Thanks for the followups, all. I expect to have a few new photos today, and will definitely update with whatever I find.

[chaos2984]

i didn't say to replace it, i said to resurface it if you can find a shop, if not buy one.

Sorry for the confusion man. I guess I just put together with what you said and what you said the book said. Sorry man.

But you really don't need to resurface it unless you were roasting the clutch or any issue. that's if you talking about maching the flywheel. A 5 min job with a sanding disc on a right angle 1/4 die grinder will normally do the trick. I would try that first and run you hand on it and inspect it visually and that normally takes care of everything. When I even did my B5 clutch when I went stage 3 I just replaced the clutch with the RS4 version and just sanded the surface of the flywheel and I was good.

[Sundowner]

Sorry for the confusion man. I guess I just put together with what you said and what you said the book said. Sorry man.

But you really don't need to resurface it unless you were roasting the clutch or any issue. that's if you talking about maching the flywheel. A 5 min job with a sanding disc on a right angle 1/4 die grinder will normally do the trick. I would try that first and run you hand on it and inspect it visually and that normally takes care of everything. When I even did my B5 clutch when I went stage 3 I just replaced the clutch with the RS4 version and just sanded the surface of the flywheel and I was good.

with a lot of rigs, I would agree with the above advice. Iv'e done more clutches than I can count, and on something like an old Jeep CJ where you can replace the clutch in literally under 90 minutes, I'd do exactly this.

But considering how much labor and downtime go into a clutch job on these cars, the additional cost and time to resurface the flywheel and get the best possible finish on it is incidental.

[d.p]

with a lot of rigs, I would agree with the above advice. Iv'e done more clutches than I can count, and on something like an old Jeep CJ where you can replace the clutch in literally under 90 minutes, I'd do exactly this.

But considering how much labor and downtime go into a clutch job on these cars, the additional cost and time to resurface the flywheel and get the best possible finish on it is incidental.

As I said earlier lots of places won't resurface a dual mass flywheel. Hell my local shop won't even give me the name of the place that does as they want to keep it some kind of secret.

[fitzydude]

Concerning your new clutch setup, what are your impression compared to the OEM clutch?

My car is going in next week for the hard clutch TSB and since they will open up the tranny, the dealer asked me to decide if I want to replace the PP and clutch without any additional cost. I will reuse my oem flywheel since I don't want to invest too much money on the car.
I did alot of research and I'm still debating between the Eurocode Stage 2 and the JHM Stage 3....

I absolutely love my JHM stage 4, you can read my review on JHM's website. Its very similar to OEM for effort required to depress the pedal, it does engage slightly quicker than OEM. If you never drove the car before you wouldn't know its an aftermarket clutch. My 78 yo great uncle just drove my car with no complaints! The stage 4 has handled many hard launches with no fade, grabs everytime.

[Jake@JHM]

I absolutely love my JHM stage 4, you can read my review on JHM's website. Its very similar to OEM for effort required to depress the pedal, it does engage slightly quicker than OEM. If you never drove the car before you wouldn't know its an aftermarket clutch. My 78 yo great uncle just drove my car with no complaints! The stage 4 has handled many hard launches with no fade, grabs everytime.

I appreciate the kind words!

[1Fireforge]

So, here is the business end of the flywheel - unfortunately, they replaced it without sending me this photo which I'm a little annoyed about. Not the greatest photo but there seems to be some localized damage like in the lower right which looks like a "honeycomb" of sorts, but a lot of this would probably clean up pretty well. Maybe I'll get it and post it for someone who wants a 30k flywheel that's been cleaned up.

[d.p]

You are right terrible picture.

Take some better ones when you get it and feel for any grooves or deposits.

[eurotic]

I absolutely love my JHM stage 4, you can read my review on JHM's website. Its very similar to OEM for effort required to depress the pedal, it does engage slightly quicker than OEM. If you never drove the car before you wouldn't know its an aftermarket clutch. My 78 yo great uncle just drove my car with no complaints! The stage 4 has handled many hard launches with no fade, grabs everytime.

Any chatter or noise? I assume that it's smooth engagement from your description that it is OEM like, correct?

[fitzydude]

Any chatter or noise? I assume that it's smooth engagement from your description that it is OEM like, correct?

No chatter at all. I hate chatter and I decided to avoid the aftermarket flywheel to avoid any chance of chatter. The OEM dmf absorbs any noise and assures engagement is smooth as butter.