Crank differences between auto and manual engines?

[projectb7avant]

does anyone know if there is for sure a difference in cranks? I cant find definite info saying there is a difference. also cant find any saying there is not. I don't see why they wouldn't all use the same crank? any one have a 2.0 crank from a auto or manual that they could measure? possibly a pic of each?

[mccorkled]

Thanks for starting this thread.

[projectb7avant]

Im hoping the name will catch some attention.

[audihere06]

Thanks for starting this thread.

This


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[Charles.waite]

Yes they're different. How different I don't know.

I know with the 1.8t, to get an Auto crank to work with a manual, you had to machine part of the crankshaft or something in order for the input shaft to properly seat or to mount the flywheel or something.

[projectb7avant]

very interesting! I wonder what exactly the difference is.

[audihere06]

Heres the other thing though, in another thread it was stated that a manual crankshaft would bolt up to a tip but the tip crank supposedly wont accept a pilot bearing. The b6 diy showed he had to pull out the tc bushing and custom trim the pilot bearing to fit but it worked. I wonder if ours is the same.


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[rongeur]

I saw the same thread about the crank differences and my impression is that there was some extra material on the TIP crankshaft compared to the manual one and simply machining it some allows the flywheel to properly mount. I hope that is all that is necessary since I picked up a block from a cvt (i think) to build out. I called JHM with this same question but the guy I spoke with didn't have any information for me.

If someone posts a picture of the rear of the crankshaft of their manual, I will post one of the rear of the automatic and we can compare.

[vce1232000]

Yes they're different. How different I don't know.

I know with the 1.8t, to get an Auto crank to work with a manual, you had to machine part of the crankshaft or something in order for the input shaft to properly seat or to mount the flywheel or something.

The manual-CVT crankshaft backside bore extrudes out further to accept the pilot bearing. The tiptronic crankshaft has a shorter bore in the crankshaft. I was @ my friends shop and he had both complete short blocks side by side so I seen the difference today. Ive heard of shops using the manual- CVT motors to replace the tiptronic motors. But not the other way around

Shops have told me you can use a CVT engine for a manual engine. And a manual or CVT engine for a Tiptronic engine. You just cant use a tiptronic engine for a manual engine
CVT and Tiptronic are different even thou they are automatic's in term's anyway

I saw the same thread about the crank differences and my impression is that there was some extra material on the TIP crankshaft compared to the manual one and simply machining it some allows the flywheel to properly mount. I hope that is all that is necessary since I picked up a block from a cvt (i think) to build out. I called JHM with this same question but the guy I spoke with didn't have any information for me.

If someone posts a picture of the rear of the crankshaft of their manual, I will post one of the rear of the automatic and we can compare.

To machine the crank is alot of work. You would have to remove the from the block and send out to a machine shop. Its not as simple as drilling it out. It has to be put on a milling machine and then a metal lathe.

Someone mentioned modifying the pilot bearing.. The bearing itself has a very thin wall already and grinding it perfectly round to fit it into the crank would be extremely difficult imo

[rongeur]

Here is the rear of the crank that I am realizing is probably from a TIP, purchased under the ASSumption it was CVT...

Here is the diameter of the flange, it protrudes about 7mm from the mounting surface for the flywheel

Here is the inner bore diameter of the crank

Finally here is the depth of the inner bore of the crank


What are the dimensions of the pilot bearing?

[rongeur]

Here is a manual crank

[vce1232000]

Thinking out the box here. Maybe you can machine the flywheel to recess it to flush out the flywheel. As far as the pilot bearing. You mite have to source one on dimensions alone to custom fit the tiptronic engine crank and the manual input shaft.

[rongeur]

Thinking out the box here. Maybe you can machine the flywheel to recess it to flush out the flywheel. As far as the pilot bearing. You might have to source one on dimensions alone to custom fit the tiptronic engine crank and the manual input shaft.

I may have found my solution:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ap-in-progress

I have realized that there is a bushing in the crank and the inner bore is 24mm just as in the above thread. That being the case I can press in the 2.8 pilot bearing (034105313A) in reverse which will advance the roller bearing outward just about where it would be with the manual crank snout. I need to verify the flywheel inner bore diameter (which should be the same) and the input shaft tip diameter to make sure the 2.8 pilot bearing is the same. Downsides is that the bearing will not be able to be fully pressed into the crank like the manual snout holds the bearing but the bearing is not a load bearing structure but rather a stabilizing structure so it should be fine ... I think.

[vce1232000]

Modify the old crankshaft bushing so that it can be used behind the inverted modified pilot bearing so that it wont have a chance to walk

[rongeur]

Modify the old crankshaft bushing so that it can be used behind the inverted modified pilot bearing so that it wont have a chance to walk

I was thinking the exact same thing, would give the 2.8 pilot bearing a backstop. The guy from that thread did a follow up post at 60000 miles after swap and said no problems

[projectb7avant]

Seems like it would be less hassle to just swap the crank. Especially when your at the point that timing needs to be done.

[audihere06]

Seems like it would be less hassle to just swap the crank. Especially when your at the point that timing needs to be done.

How would a complete lower end rebuild be easier than the 2.8 pilot bearing solution? That should be the last thing one would do, your talking about a complete engine tear down.


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[rongeur]

Seems like it would be less hassle to just swap the crank. Especially when your at the point that timing needs to be done.

I think you lost me there. The 2.8 bearing is 19 dollar solution at ECS. Slight compromise in installation technique and not the OEM design but unless you have a manual crank laying around for less than 850 and willing to disassemble your entire block...

In my situation, I am building a bottom end so the time to find a crank is now but on a quick search, they are not readily available so I may resort to the 2.8 bearing as a solution. My concern is longevity of the 2.8 bearing since it is installed inverted to keep the rollers on the input shaft tip and the integrated seal at the front is not properly used. As long as everything is balanced and aligned, the bearing does not support the shaft or subjected heavy loads, it only allows it to spin free from the crank when the clutch is disengaged.

ANother alternative is to use the OEM pilot bearing which is a smaller OD and have a machine shop fabricate a sleeve/snout that pins to the crank that replicates the manual crank.

[projectb7avant]

Wolf auto has them for less then 350 shipped

[projectb7avant]

I see what your saying now. I wasn't saying swapping crank is way to go for everyone but mine needs work any way. Pilot bearing idea is good though. You plan on trying it?

[rongeur]

Wolf auto has it listed but i thought it said out of stock

[vce1232000]

Wolf auto has it listed but i thought it said out of stock

If its just 350.00. Id go that route. chance it

[projectb7avant]

http://www.wolfautoparts.com/0501051...ker-60220.html

[mccorkled]

I am EXTREMELY interested in a DIY once someone gets all the details on a tip to 6 speed swap.

Edit: I just purchased a transmission, gearbox, and linkage from an 06 A4. Waiting on my tax return and I may buy a JHM stage 3 or 4 flywheel kit... I need some more incentive though. $1100 and I probably wouldn't even get a shirt.

Hopefully all of those interested in a swap can get it all figured out.

[james12lucy]

So fellas, are the CVT and Manual cranks the same? If I'm following along properly, I'm getting the opinion the odd crank out is the TIPTRONIC. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Thanks!

[Charles.waite]

You are correct.

[james12lucy]

You are correct.

Thanks!

Can we come to a consensus that this is 200% the case? If so, I'm a happy lad.


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[aluthman]

200%

[james12lucy]

Thanks fellas. Looks like I'm building my bottom end. I found a set of BPG forged pistons (Adam, I need advice on milling the crowns), bare block, a balanced CVT crank, and Mitch's rods.

Can you send me your word document, Adam? I need some particulars to send to my machine shop.


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[vce1232000]

300%

[james12lucy]

300%

Damn you fellas, you just made my priorities change from B6 back to my damned DD B7 Avant.

Now I just need to sell some stuff...


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[vce1232000]

Now I just need to sell some stuff...

Well what you waiting for .... Put on the salesman suit..................

[aluthman]

Thanks fellas. Looks like I'm building my bottom end. I found a set of BPG forged pistons (Adam, I need advice on milling the crowns), bare block, a balanced CVT crank, and Mitch's rods.

Can you send me your word document, Adam? I need some particulars to send to my machine shop.


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Sure, PM me your email. As far as milling the crowns, just tell the machine shop to knock them down to flush with the rest of the piston top. That should put you right at 9.5:1 CR.

[james12lucy]

Well what you waiting for .... Put on the salesman suit..................

Bahahah. I do that as a day job, I'm hoping my TTS FBSW and B8 Nappa seats sell soon. That'll be what goes into the turbo.


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[Dwightlud]

Just so I have this straight, I can use a manual crank on a Tip for a 2.0T? But not the other way around?

[vce1232000]

Just so I have this straight, I can use a manual crank on a Tip for a 2.0T? But not the other way around?

This is correct

[edhogan1224]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...2-0TFSI-Motors

[brandon28]

To use cvt or manual engine on a tip you make a custom pilot bushing it has to go all the way back to the back of crank in order for the torque converter stay centered in crank if anyone needs one made let me no they are for sale

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[B7S3wannabi]

Ok. After reading this twice. I'm still unsure of what needs to be done to mate a CVT engine to a manual transmission.


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[B7S3wannabi]

Ok. After reading this twice. I'm still unsure of what needs to be done to mate a CVT engine to a manual transmission.


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Nvm. I guess I skipped the posts confirming by 200 and 300 percent that the CVT and Manual crankshafts are the same...


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