Self-adjusting clutch components

[Spike00513]

Clicky

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How are you all doing this?

[SJorge3442]

We dont. Install new clutch and walk (Crawl) away. The SAC pressure plate will handle the rest. I believe this why the clutch pedal goes through various changes of "feel" during the break in period. I want my butter soft clutch back!

[Spike00513]

We dont. Install new clutch and walk (Crawl) away. The SAC pressure plate will handle the rest. I believe this why the clutch pedal goes through various changes of "feel" during the break in period. I want my butter soft clutch back!

I think the clutch friction disc is self-adjusting too.
You have to set the pressure plate and make sure its working as intended. If you do, enjoy 200k mi+ of awesome driving. If not, smell burnt clutch and feel slippage.
However, if ALL the parts are new, its pre-set from the factory.

But, physical shock throws it out of wack. Such as from shipping the parts. Let's just say my once-rectangular box arrived at my door-step looking like a potato. Pretty sure I need to somehow adjust things.
Self-adjustment meaning you set the initial point, and it adjusts from there to account for clutch wear.

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng86.shtml

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp5K...yt-cl=84503534

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedi...ech_sac_en.pdf

http://www.repxpert.com/lukas/binary...document=28509

[SJorge3442]

I'm unsure if this is a 100% neccsary step or not. I have never read a recent DIY that referenced setting anything on the PP. I know my Luk instructions said to straightup install and be on your way. If you are reusing a pressure plate, you have to reset the SAC mechanism.

[rollerton]

If you are reusing a pressure plate, you have to reset the SAC mechanism.

^^ What he said. You're OVERTHINKING it! Clutch disc doesn't adjust- they just wear. If the pressure plate AND disc adjusted you'd have a pretty complicated system. Bolt it on.
And no, the parts don't go out of adjustment by 'shock' or whatever, if they did we'd all be screwed because every time you dumped the clutch the adjustment would change and EVERY pressure plate would show up with faulty adjustment. The parts have to be more durable than that.

I like how that guy up there removed the trans in 47 seconds by removing the one bolt holding the axle on and one trans mount. I bet only half the dealers in the U.S. had that clutch adjusting kit, and the half that did ever get it have never used it.
Seriously- use the complicated and expensive clamp/screw adjusting setup...or make 700% profit on replacing parts.
Which do you think they would rather do?

[drjonez]

Skip all the foolishness and install something different- no DMFW, no SAC. KISS.

It has been beaten to death, but the Valeo clutch kit is the one for 98% of B6 owners.

[blitz2190]

my valeo has been very smooth got the single mass(non lightweight) and its been great

[NathanGrayW]

+1 for the Valeo kit :p
Difficult to drive the first time though lol

[jacobsen]

My south bend stuff just bolted up no fuss. Adjustment? hah!

[Charles.waite]

The SAC mechanism is a double edged sword. I keeps pedal feel consistent over the life of the clutch, and can even extend the clutch life a bit longer, but its also somewhat prone to failure. The 240mm audi clutches (b5 s4, b6 3.0, all b7s) generally all have an SAC mechanism, while the 228mm ones generally don't. So us 1.8t guys don't have SAC on our clutches. Frankly I'm okay without it. My b7's clutch has really wonky takeup and I think it has to do with faulty SAC. Its relatively common for failures of SAC on the b7 forum (relatively as in common within the subset of b7 forum-going enthusiasts with 6mts who actually do their own work).

Anyway, SAC is both good and bad I guess. Generally, when it comes to extremely tedious parts to replace, like clutches, I would tend toward simplicity over complication. SAC is just one more component that can fail, and thus it makes me less than excited to deal with it. I know a number of b7 guys who have reset the SAC on their clutches though without any fancy tools. I don't think its that complicated at all.

[rollerton]

My only gripe with the ECS tuning non-SAC unit is that "compared to" the Rs4 pressure plate there is literally almost zero pedal feel / feedback at all. It's totally driveable, I would have used the ECS kit on my V8 but I still haven't heard how much power it reliably holds.

I could live with a lighter pedal and I'd prefer a SMFW- but to get one that works with the Rs4 unit costs twice as much.

[Spike00513]

OK so apparently the clutch friction disc is not self-adjusting, but only has springs in it for dampening purposes. However, the pressure plate is called "self-adjusting". I assume that because it all makes up the "Clutch Kit", that is why they call it SAC.


Note that in the video, it clearly states this procedure is for a new clutch disc, but used pressure plate. I assume that is what they are re-setting to work with the new clutch disc, since before that it self-adjusted to the old clutch or something. Which agrees with Audi factory procedures, that are basically like "don't touch anything, just install it" if everything is new, but they say you need adjustment doing the aforementioned method (new clutch, used

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp5K...yt-cl=84503534
However, starting a 3:40 makes it seem the tool is still necessary to install the PP, regardless of whether its new or not. It appears that without it, one could warp it, which I believe the manual warns about.

For those of you who have seen the funny special tool control arm video, I guess that is his brother. (the link escapes me)
I also wonder how it can stay in adjustment setting after going over the amount of bumps that a car hits, especially with a sport suspension. If I can feel it in the drivers seat, I imagine the pressure plate does too.

Skip all the foolishness and install something different- no DMFW, no SAC. KISS.

It has been beaten to death, but the Valeo clutch kit is the one for 98% of B6 owners.

Maybe next time. IIRC, it would've been twice more expensive for a single-mass setup on the 3.0. My clutch friction disc is Valeo, it seems everything else is LuK though, and SAC as you said.

[Spike00513]

And no, the parts don't go out of adjustment by 'shock' or whatever, if they did we'd all be screwed because every time you dumped the clutch the adjustment would change and EVERY pressure plate would show up with faulty adjustment. The parts have to be more durable than that.

I understand your point, but Mathew J. Reid, Vice-President of Induktion Motorsports, seems to disagree. My PP looks exactly like his in the first pic, and mine too was jarred up quite a bit.
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng86.shtml

ding ding ding
Section 5.4, SAC installation on new components. Bolt it on. It's that simple. No special tools. I guess those are, again, only for used PP's, to re-adjust to new clutch discs...
http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedi...ech_sac_en.pdf
That still doesn't settle the AudiWorld write-up/claim by Mathew that the factory setting is ruined during aggressive shipping, requiring a "reset" as shown in the link

[walky_talky20]

However, starting a 3:40 makes it seem the tool is still necessary to install the PP, regardless of whether its new or not. It appears that without it, one could warp it, which I believe the manual warns about.

Yeah, probably. But you just run the bolts in "evenly" and in a staggered pattern, like you would for a valve cover or cylinder head, and you'll be fine.

[Charles.waite]

Yeah, probably. But you just run the bolts in "evenly" and in a staggered pattern, like you would for a valve cover or cylinder head, and you'll be fine.

This.

Also given the way the mechanism works, its nearly impossible for it come out of adjustment while installed in a car (barring any sort of mechanical failure due to a defect or improper install procedure). In shipping, while the PP is attached to nothing, I suppose its possible that it could wiggle out of alignment.

I'm pretty sure Sachs/Luk designed the mechanism to withstand shocks and vibration FAR above normal operating conditions while installed in a car. Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill here. Next time a ZOMG THIS COULD BE A PROBLEM NOBODY HAS EVER THOUGHT OF BEFORE!!!!! comes up, use some reasoning and logic skills, attempt to understand how the mechanism works, and trust that the engineers who designed an adjusting mechanism on a clutch know what the operating environment is for a pressure plate and engineered accordingly.