Should i buy this S4? High mileage reliability issues?

[tomahawk297]

Hello all, i am a current owner of a 2006 Audi A4 2.0T and have owned this car for almost a year now and other than having to replace the tranny at 128k miles, i love the car but I'm looking at buying a second Audi with more power and a manual transmission versus the slow automatic i currently have as my daily driver. I found a car with a good price but i question it's reliability because of its high mileage. It's a 2005 B6 Audi S4 with 125k miles (Link to the car here: http://goo.gl/0iBx6O), i'm looking to get some input from those of you with the S4 to see if this would be considered a bad or good buy for me? I'd still be using my A4 as my daily driver and this would be mostly just a weekend car for me not putting a terrible amount of miles on it. How many miles do these cars usually last before major problems arise? Could the timing chain be a problem at this point in the car's life? Any input would be much appreciated, i would just hate to buy this car and have to do some major work on it like i had with my A4 only 2 months after i bought it ($7500 transmission replacement). Thanks in advance.

[seblove]

Hello all, i am a current owner of a 2006 Audi A4 2.0T and have owned this car for almost a year now and other than having to replace the tranny at 128k miles, i love the car but I'm looking at buying a second Audi with more power and a manual transmission versus the slow automatic i currently have as my daily driver. I found a car with a good price but i question it's reliability because of its high mileage. It's a 2005 B6 Audi S4 with 125k miles (Link to the car here: http://goo.gl/0iBx6O), i'm looking to get some input from those of you with the S4 to see if this would be considered a bad or good buy for me? I'd still be using my A4 as my daily driver and this would be mostly just a weekend car for me not putting a terrible amount of miles on it. How many miles do these cars usually last before major problems arise? Could the timing chain be a problem at this point in the car's life? Any input would be much appreciated, i would just hate to buy this car and have to do some major work on it like i had with my A4 only 2 months after i bought it ($7500 transmission replacement). Thanks in advance.

I wouldn't touch it unless it's already had the timing chain service. Otherwise, those b6 and b7s with 100k+ mileage are very likely to require the service in which case you have a nightmare on your hands, aka a necessary repair that costs you more than the car is worth in working condition.

[tomahawk297]

I wouldn't touch it unless it's already had the timing chain service. Otherwise, those b6 and b7s with 100k+ mileage are very likely to require the service in which case you have a nightmare on your hands, aka a necessary repair that costs you more than the car is worth in working condition.

That's kind of what i expected to be told, i just wish that timing chain wasn't as much of a PITA as it is! Thanks.

[drdljones]

Beautiful car, but yea pretty high miles. If the dealer can't provide proof that the timing guides and other maintenance has been done, then $8900 is too high. How long has this dealer had the car advertised? I suspect anyone who is shoppping for a 10 yr old high perforance sedan knows something about the S4 quirks. If timing hasn't been done and they have had the car for quite a while you may (MAY) be able to get them down to a price that makes sense for you to pay to have the necessary work done and still come out ahead in value. Call a local indie Audi mechanic and get an estimate on what it will cost to have the timing guides replaced. Good luck - still a beautiful car! P.S.- I picked up a '04 S4 with 94K miles knowing it needed timing done; only paid $2400 for it. Still can put $10K into it and have a dream car for less than it's worth

[blackedoutt]

Not sure what these guys are talking about. Looks like a decent deal to me if it all checks out. Miles do not always equal timing components, and never equal chains.

[wednesday]

Audi? High Mileage? Reliability? All in same sentence? Audis are all about "surprise" parties.

One thing going here, is the the fact that there will be a second car with this around for those downtimes. Those crazy unreliable flux capacitors :)

Many of the local Audi guys have ran out of excuses to their girlfriends/wife/kids..

[Junaid]

I would buy a high mileage S4 but it would have to be 06+ but I would not buy THAT car. I don't buy cars with aftermarket decks, but that car is clean for its age. It had the coolant bottle replaced and it was either towed recently or the bumper was sprayed and they didn't put the tow hook back in. I personally am not planning on doing the timing chain items anytime soon unless my car shit's the bed and I have to. There are plenty of high mileage S4 on the board with stock chain and guide rails.

Goodluck with your search but do your due diligence.

[Avantium]

There are plenty of high mileage S4 on the board with stock chain and guide rails.

There are also plenty of grenades with the pins still in... V8 S4's are great to drive but a major financial gamble.

[blai76]

The front interior is pretty tore up...

[seblove]

Not sure what these guys are talking about. Looks like a decent deal to me if it all checks out. Miles do not always equal timing components, and never equal chains.

I love this platform, so don't get me wrong. If this particular car is one that happens to have 0 timing chain issues, then ofcourse it's a great deal for a great car. But having done my research and heard from the guys at JHM as to the percentage of high mileage b6/b7 s4s that are in dire need of the service EDIT: that JHM come across, I'd be very skeptical as a newcomer to the platform; I'd probably avoid the risk.

[sea_shackF1]

Those giving advice here to stay away from this particular car.... please tell me the state of the timing guides on THIS PARTICULAR car. OP did not state that there was any rattle, 'normal' 1-2 sec cold start only rattle or 3+ sec cold and warm rattle. Yet people here made a judgement with little to no information.

But having done my research and heard from the guys at JHM as to the percentage of high mileage b6/b7 s4s that are in dire need of the service, I'd be very skeptical as a newcomer to the platform; I'd probably avoid the risk.

Please elaborate.... as there were over 16k of these engines in S4's (not counting similar ones A6's and A8's of the same time period) brought to NA. Seeing as all B6's are 10+ years old and B7's are 6-8 years old, it's safe to say that the vast majority have 75 -120k+ miles on them. Are you suggesting that 8,000 have had/need to have the timing guides replaced?? 8k is 50% and still not a sure thing, but I seriously doubt that many have had/need to have it done. If so JHM could survive on selling timing kits alone considering their cost. A mechanic at a local Audi dealer has honestly only seen or personally heard of this being done once in the 8 years he has worked there, he's also a mod enthusiast A4 owner.

I would be very skeptical of 'research' done on this board as most of the 'evidence' seems anecdotal. Yes some have had the problem and it is an actually problem, but seems to be overblown as to the actual amount. Keep in mind that a greater percentage of the people with the problem will come here looking for answers/info. Most don't come here and say 140k on original chains as they are too busy driving their car. Seems most people who give advice about the timing issues haven't had the problem themselves or even know anyone personally that have. They have only 'heard' about it from people who did have the problem on this forum. I also suspect that there have at times been 2 or 3 people saying they have the problem, but it's actually one car that has just been dumped when the owner found out about it.

I'm all for current owners giving open and honest advice to potential buyers, BUT there is a fine line to walk with it. Never mind bad/misinformed/inaccurate advice. You can duly inform someone of the issue these particular used cars face without outright scaring them away with misleading statements like "I wouldn't touch it unless it's already had the timing chain service." Inform them and then let THEM make the decision. I would much prefer an impeccably maintained car with nothing more than 'normal' rattle than one with the timing GUIDES service but questionable or less than ideal service otherwise. Remember, these posts are out there and if you scare away the OP who's to say how many others potential buyers see the same thread and decide to pass...... hmmm, now remind me of this, is it more or less buyers that are good for the resale of current owners cars????

OP rather than rehash this timing any more and for other issues these cars may face, here another brand new thread asking similar questions. This thread has a potential buyer with realistic expectations and he was given some realistic answers, along with some bad ones.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Advice-Needed
My advice to you is to read more threads about some of the specific issues and then once you have a well rounded and informed picture make your decision. Otherwise, I would guess that if you only read this thread, or the many others like it, then you probably would be scared way from a V8 S4 which would be a huge shame.

[Guitarmageddon]

Wouldnt touch it with your dick and a 5 dollar whore pushin'

But take it with a grain of salt.

Youre playing Russian roulette just to get into a nice car that will be very very expensive to you. I never advocate buying a used vehicle over 50-ish thousand miles. Thats my own personal formula and it has been reliable as this is my third vehicle, among other key things I look for. If you are trying to stay in the under 10 grand price range, there are much better cars to get into for the money.

Have you considered selling your current A4 and just upgrading to something more current?

If you dont mind answering....whats your monthly payment target? Whats your projected down payment? Will you be trading in the A4?

[jumpinj]

Not sure what these guys are talking about. Looks like a decent deal to me if it all checks out. Miles do not always equal timing components, and never equal chains.

But mentioned service on one of these cars does = ~$6000

Get leak down and compression test during standard PPI prior to purchase. Cheap insurance to look for majority of issues related to this platform. If you don't mind the gamble (i.e, have funds for timing service) and records check out to your liking...go for it. 4.2 is a great motor otherwise.

SO

"You feeling lucky punk"
- Dirty Harry

[SlickFix]

Could the timing chain be a problem at this point in the car's life? Any input would be much appreciated, i would just hate to buy this car and have to do some major work on it like i had with my A4 only 2 months after i bought it ($7500 transmission replacement). Thanks in advance.

Could it? Yes. Will it? No way of knowing, unless the start up chain rattle is already over 2-3 seconds. I don't think the question is whether you'd hate to have to dump $6,000 into the timing components soon after you bought the car. We all would hate to have to do that. The real question is...can you afford to?

I've had my 2005 S4 since 2011, when it had 94k miles on it. It's had cold start rattle from the very beginning, so I came into this with my eyes open. I now have been having warm start intermittent rattle, too, so I've started the process of buying all the parts and tools necessary to pull the motor and change the timing components myself. It's going to cost me around $2,000 to do it myself, not including any other items I decide to replace while the engine is out.

I think you just need to weigh the "I love this car" feeling you'll have every moment of driving it versus the "I hate this car" when it's in the shop for repairs. I have an S4 and a B6 A4, too. And, there is no comparison between the two. The S4 is a monster, is the very best way.

[Malv1]

I would buy a high mileage S4 but it would have to be 06+ but I would not buy THAT car. I don't buy cars with aftermarket decks, but that car is clean for its age.

Please elaborate? Why does an aftermarket head unit deter you?

[SpoolBus]

No way of knowing really, but proper PPI and documentation lower your chances of a failure occuring...but all things sooner or later do fail and we're at 10+ years.

With the age of these vehicles I would be more worried about who owned it/beat the crap out of it during it's lifetime.

Misuse, neglect and trying to "cheap out" with repairs and service doesn't do these cars well.

V8 S4's are a gentleman's sport touring car, not a race car, not a super car and not a drag car. If you treat them as such be prepared to pay a hefty penny!..or sell it at a shady dealership who will never help once you sign the deal..hint

http://www.bbb.org/west-florida/busi...pa-fl-90118316
http://www.bbb.org/west-florida/busi...316/complaints

[sea_shackF1]

Please elaborate? Why does an aftermarket head unit deter you?

I totally understand that too. If it has an aftermarket deck what else has been done to it? Was the deck installed correctly, by a trained professional, or some inexperienced kid that hacked it together with many electrical issues to follow? For me it also doesn't look right in these cars, but I would even stay away from a $$$$ show quality system. I like to get buy stock, unmolested excellent condition cars.

No way of knowing really, but proper PPI and documentation lower your chances of a failure occuring...but all things sooner or later do fail and we're at 10+ years.

With the age of these vehicles I would be more worried about who owned it/beat the crap out of it during it's lifetime.

Misuse, neglect and trying to "cheap out" with repairs and service doesn't do these cars well.

V8 S4's are a gentleman's sport touring car, not a race car, not a super car and not a drag car. If you treat them as such be prepared to pay a hefty penny!..or sell it at a shady dealership who will never help once you sign the deal..hint

+1
Nice catch Spoolbus. this car first and foremost may have a 'dealer' problem.
This is the best advice you could get. Have an Audi dealer or good indy mechanic with with specific knowledge of this particular model do the PPI, best $100-200 you could possibly spend, this is true for ANY used car. If you don't know of a good indy mechanic with the proper knowledge just go to the dealer. Many people avoid dealers because they ALWAYS find other things wrong with you car than what you brought it in for even if it's not really an issue (like 40% left on brake pads...really!!!)....well use that to your advantage. A Leak down/compression test if you have any concerns about the engine or even if don't mind spending the money can't hurt either.

There are many such similar threads to this (even within the last day), so people may get fatigue in responding. My advice is PPI and search the forum on specific issues that concern you, there is plenty of good advice to be had and some may be from old threads. Only be scared off by a bad/abused car, but not all V8 S4.... Get the right one and it's a GREAT car.

[sea_shackF1]

My concerns with this particular car are rep of the dealer, tow hook cover missing, new coolant reservoir and aftermarket deck which others mentioned. It also has a JHM intake manifold and the wheels are in way too good a condition to have been on them the whole time as the brake dust and wear and tear would have taken a bigger toll with that mileage. What else was done to it??? Is this a 'returned to stock before sale' car? Engine bay, interior and exterior where obviously just detailed.... s that hiding anything?

As with ANY used car......PPI or don't buy.

[WCCoffey]

It has a JHM intake? How do you know that?

[sea_shackF1]

It has a JHM intake? How do you know that?

Grey color. Unless that is how 04's came?? As far as I know (and on my 05 B6 Avant) stock is light silver dull crinkle bare aluminum finish. If not stock or JHM then it was removed, disassembled and the top part powder coated.

[Junaid]

Please elaborate? Why does an aftermarket head unit deter you?

Sea shack said it perfectly. When buying a car with an aftermarket deck you do not really know how well it was installed. When you drive it once you probably will not experience any electrical issues such as battery drains. I don't mind a lightly modded one but I hate anything done with electrical.

[Junaid]

Grey color. Unless that is how 04's came?? As far as I know (and on my 05 B6 Avant) stock is light silver dull crinkle bare aluminum finish. If not stock or JHM then it was removed, disassembled and the top part powder coated.

Early B6 came with the grey intake manifold, I doubt it has a jhm one.

[SpoolBus]

Yeah 04 is smooth greyish silver
Might be a 05 split or this has a motor swap...adds to the drama...

[sea_shackF1]

Early B6 came with the grey intake manifold, I doubt it has a jhm one.

Good to know, thanks for the correction.

[WCCoffey]

Even if it didn't come grey you can't assume it has a JHM intake just because someone painted it.

[seblove]

Those giving advice here to stay away from this particular car.... please tell me the state of the timing guides on THIS PARTICULAR car. OP did not state that there was any rattle, 'normal' 1-2 sec cold start only rattle or 3+ sec cold and warm rattle. Yet people here made a judgement with little to no information.



Please elaborate.... as there were over 16k of these engines in S4's (not counting similar ones A6's and A8's of the same time period) brought to NA. Seeing as all B6's are 10+ years old and B7's are 6-8 years old, it's safe to say that the vast majority have 75 -120k+ miles on them. Are you suggesting that 8,000 have had/need to have the timing guides replaced?? 8k is 50% and still not a sure thing, but I seriously doubt that many have had/need to have it done. If so JHM could survive on selling timing kits alone considering their cost. A mechanic at a local Audi dealer has honestly only seen or personally heard of this being done once in the 8 years he has worked there, he's also a mod enthusiast A4 owner.

I would be very skeptical of 'research' done on this board as most of the 'evidence' seems anecdotal. Yes some have had the problem and it is an actually problem, but seems to be overblown as to the actual amount. Keep in mind that a greater percentage of the people with the problem will come here looking for answers/info. Most don't come here and say 140k on original chains as they are too busy driving their car. Seems most people who give advice about the timing issues haven't had the problem themselves or even know anyone personally that have. They have only 'heard' about it from people who did have the problem on this forum. I also suspect that there have at times been 2 or 3 people saying they have the problem, but it's actually one car that has just been dumped when the owner found out about it.

I'm all for current owners giving open and honest advice to potential buyers, BUT there is a fine line to walk with it. Never mind bad/misinformed/inaccurate advice. You can duly inform someone of the issue these particular used cars face without outright scaring them away with misleading statements like "I wouldn't touch it unless it's already had the timing chain service." Inform them and then let THEM make the decision. I would much prefer an impeccably maintained car with nothing more than 'normal' rattle than one with the timing GUIDES service but questionable or less than ideal service otherwise. Remember, these posts are out there and if you scare away the OP who's to say how many others potential buyers see the same thread and decide to pass...... hmmm, now remind me of this, is it more or less buyers that are good for the resale of current owners cars????

OP rather than rehash this timing any more and for other issues these cars may face, here another brand new thread asking similar questions. This thread has a potential buyer with realistic expectations and he was given some realistic answers, along with some bad ones.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Advice-Needed
My advice to you is to read more threads about some of the specific issues and then once you have a well rounded and informed picture make your decision. Otherwise, I would guess that if you only read this thread, or the many others like it, then you probably would be scared way from a V8 S4 which would be a huge shame.

No I don't have any data to access the exact number of units with this problem... that's unattainable by conventional means and I don't care enough to do it; I'm giving my advice based off of what I've seen and heard from, and I have an 80k example with no chain rattle so I'm not biased by way of a horrible experience or something. The point is, the risk is very real. Why buy a car with such a tangible risk? I certainly wouldn't if I were in a buying position - yes a leakdown/compression/close inspection would help my peace of mind but I'd still avoid it in retrospect.

You seem to love using CAPS and annotations to make your point... it's actually just very annoying to read to be honest. Anyways, to OP, if I were in your position I wouldn't buy a high mileage s4 because there are other cars at that value that do not possess the obvious pitfalls of this car's design, and that is all my opinion. That's all - didn't mean to get anyone too butthurt lol. And to boot, all my trusted Audi mechanics in LA would 100% advise toward a 3.0, 2.7, or rs4/s5 - pretty much any modern Audi engine other than the 4.2 because they've come across so many with timing chain issues. If that's bad advice, so be it, atleast it's widening your frame of reference.

[sea_shackF1]

Seblove...Things like tone and emphasis don't come across so well when typing. How many times have you seen people take something differently then how it was meant on forums?? Then people have to go back and clarify. It happens all the time so I'm just trying to be totally clear when making my point/giving my opinion. So that there is no doubt what I mean. It may have annoyed you, but you got exactly what I was saying and how I was saying it so......
sorry to have annoyed you.... not really, so let's just call it even then.

Wait.. you don't have ANY...sorry...any... chain rattle and you are telling people to stay away because of the issue?? Not sure I understand that one, but to each his own. Perhaps you should add that little tidbit when you tell people not to get the car because of it.

Noted about your mechanics advice. The Audi mechanic I mentioned would get one, if it wasn't for mpg's and a very long commute. I heard other such stories here too, so hopefully that widens your frame as well. You don't have to have exact numbers, just be realistic. Your car doesn't have the problem and yet you don't go shouting that from the roof tops. Perhaps there are many, many others just like you, most probably aren't even on this forum as they are just driving/enjoying their cars. On the other hand the ones that do have the problem are more vocal because they come here to seek advice/knowledge about the issue.... perhaps they are the 'vocal minority'. Out of 16k + cars do you honestly think anywhere near even 4000 have had/need to have the timing guides replaced yet? That doesn't make any sense as it would be a ton and probably a class action lawsuit or recall by now like the e46 M3's which had both. It would still only be 25%, which is a minority.....think about it.

I guess my main point is give your honest opinion, but try to do it in such away as to not scare people away unnecessarily...... after all.......Less buyers = lower resale value of YOUR current car. I think it's a reasonable request as you stand to benefit from it as much as the rest of us. But, by all means, shoot yourself in the foot if you must, I'm just not sure why you would want to though.

[badger.]

Interesting post, I plan to stay tuned to see where this discussion is going...

I am in SlickFix's boat, sort of. Saving for a DIY timing job. BUT I'm still not sure when it will happen, if at all. I don't have a backup car. I do have a kid on the way and other things to save $$ for.

I am just over 160k miles on original timing. No CEL, and max 2 seconds startup rattle at the worst. I am getting to the point where I might just not do it at all and see what happens. I don't want to dump in $3k+ and have something else expensive like the trans go out in another 10k miles. How many more miles can I expect out of the car if I do the timing? If I don't do the timing? I put on 25k miles a year or more. Pretty much bone stock. I'd consider selling it but no one will touch it for more than a few grand without timing done, so it's not even worth selling.

I just don't know what to do, it is a very tough decision. If I was at 100k miles I would do it. But is it worth it at 160k?

[SlickFix]

Interesting post, I plan to stay tuned to see where this discussion is going...

I am in SlickFix's boat, sort of. Saving for a DIY timing job. BUT I'm still not sure when it will happen, if at all. I don't have a backup car. I do have a kid on the way and other things to save $$ for.

I am just over 160k miles on original timing. No CEL, and max 2 seconds startup rattle at the worst. I am getting to the point where I might just not do it at all and see what happens. I don't want to dump in $3k+ and have something else expensive like the trans go out in another 10k miles. How many more miles can I expect out of the car if I do the timing? If I don't do the timing? I put on 25k miles a year or more. Pretty much bone stock. I'd consider selling it but no one will touch it for more than a few grand without timing done, so it's not even worth selling.

I just don't know what to do, it is a very tough decision. If I was at 100k miles I would do it. But is it worth it at 160k?

Heh, we have the exact same year and color, badger. Nice!

I'm in a better position that you, because I put less than 5,000 miles/year on my S4. I agree with you, that for me it makes sense to replace the timing components. For you? Definitely a tougher decision. If your car is paid off, I'd probably just drive it until the timing guide breaks, then part it out and go shopping for your next Audi. As for me, I'm going to try to get another 3-5 years with my B6 S4, then it's B8 S5 time.