Srm k24 whp

[bradthebold]

What WHP/WTQ number will these make on 91/93 octane? Plus meth? Just an average number with supporting mods and a professional tune.

It is hard to find any actual numbers beyond better than K04s. SRM's site says 420whp on 91 and 500whp on e85, but pretty much the only dyno I found the guy made >600whp with high IATs, cats, and 2.5" downpipes.

Edit: I was looking at the wrong page, SRM's site says >500whp on 91 and 600+ on E85.

[LINDW4LL]

Their website states 500+whp possible on pump, 600+ on E85. Are you looking at their RS4 hybrid instead of the RS6 K24??

Aysix made 480whp/460wtq on straight 93, someone else made 44x on a low-reading Mustang dyno @ 25psi. Obviously take these with a grain of salt since dynos read differently. However, 500 is definitely possible with meth on a "normal"-reading DynoJet. It will probably take 2.8 cams and high boost to get 600+ on E85 but it's possible.

I'd expect 450-470ish on a normal pump tune.

[bradthebold]

Oh yeah, I was looking at the wrong ones. I forgot they have more than 1 set now.

So maybe 30-50hp more than a strong K04/F21 car on meth with 600rpm later spool. Probably not worth upgrading if you already have K04s. If they could actually hit >500whp (Mustang) on 91 and closer to 550 on 93+meth, that would be perfect.

Otherwise the next step up is 770s (since they seem better than 605s with similar spool). Finding spool rpm was hard for that too, all I found was that EPL says they make 400wtq 1000rpm later than K04s, so I would guess at least 1k RPM later spool. I could easily get to the safe limit for the block though.

I have K04s right now and want more, willing to do rods, meth, etc, but don't really want a huge spool/threshold difference. There doesn't appear to be an easy choice. I'm kind of torn between just adding meth or doing rods and going big.

[LINDW4LL]

I don't know, I think SRMs are worth it. I think you could easily surpass 500 with meth, probably close on pump too. Most people are just conservative. Supporting mods like 2.8 cams (or heads) should help too and give a nice gain. The top end is so much better than K04s.

I think the SRMs are perfect if you don't get caught up in the huge numbers game. Honestly 600whp is massive power and I think this setup is perfect combination of big power while avoiding lagginess.

If I end up going this route, I'd do 2.8 cams and have two ECUs; a 93 tune and an E85 tune, running E85 whenever possible.

[bradthebold]

It would be nice if there was more dyno info. SRMs would definitely be easier and would work with my current exhaust and fueling and spool a good bit sooner than bigger turbos.

I would probably do 2.8 cams. Would I need rods? Aysix is close, but if I could get >500WTQ with meth and pushing them as hard as people push K04s, I would do rods.

Right now I have a 044 pump and 52# ev14 injectors. I'm sure I'd need bigger injectors for E85, but would I need more fueling than that? If I had to run multiple pumps, a surge tank, bigger lines, etc that is a lot more involved, that wouldn't be as tempting. I do have e85 around me though, so I would run it if I could and it would make the rod decision easier.

[Dalers08]

Here's my input. My setup is currently PJ K04's. I run E85 with EV14 52lb's and a walbro 485 pump. I had an 044 and I was outflowing it. I put down 465/415 on a dynojet. It's a very fun setup, spool is there pretty quick and it makes fun power. I'm also on stock rods (Daz tuned). Run a pretty consistent 3.1 FATS.

If I was in your shoes I would do meth or E85 (whichever is easier). And if you aren't happy with that do rods and K24's. If you decide to do meth K04 and aren't happy you can keep the meth with K24's.

[LINDW4LL]

I'd do rods just to be safe and so that you have the option of running E85. Also aysix ran out of 60lb injector on pump alone so you will definitely need 72 at minimum for pump gas. Larger if considering E85.

I'm not sure what a single 044 can support fuel-wise, but I think a single Walbro can get you to near 600whp with E85. Worst case scenario if you are really pushing the car, you add a second in-tank pump using SRM's dual pump bracket.

[uponone nogaro]

Good thread

[aysix]

I'd do rods just to be safe and so that you have the option of running E85. Also aysix ran out of 60lb injector on pump alone so you will definitely need 72 at minimum for pump gas.

yes 630cc injectors paired with a 5 bar fpr. I ran out of fuel at around 22 psi on 93 and once i bumped the rail pressure to 5 bar i had just enough for 25. My car was also Daz tuned running 3.1-3.2 fats in an A6. I think it would be safe to say that is 2.9-3.0 territory in an S4.

[bradthebold]

With enough fueling and meth or E85, sub 3 fats sounds great.

[FlyboyS4]

It would be nice if there was more dyno info. SRMs would definitely be easier and would work with my current exhaust and fueling and spool a good bit sooner than bigger turbos.

When you says SRM will spool a good bit sooner than bigger turbo's, what bigger turbo's are you referring to? The info I collected on RS6's (smaller than the RS6 K24 from SRM) and 770's leads me to believe the 770 and SRM K24 product will be spooling very similarly. As far as being easier to do, the 770's will bolt up to the existing exhaust, I think the RS6 turbine housing will require an adapter to the DP's or altogether different DP's. On the other hand the SRM product is substantially less expensive so that including replacing DP's would still make the SRM option less costly to do.

I agree with your initial comments that there is a shortage of results floating around for the SRM product.

[bradthebold]

Yeah, I was referring to 770s. From the thread earlier talking about F21s vs K24s, it was said the SRMs will spool 600rpm later than the F21s, though your graph shows a bigger gap than that. So what would RPM numbers be for making 20psi? KO4 - 3100, K24 - 3800, 770 - 4000? If 770s are within 200rpm of K24s and are a lot more capable, that would make 770s more tempting, though they do cost like $3k more.

I have 034 downpipes right now. I had guessed since they make 770 specific downpipes, they would require different ones, but I have no idea. I had assumed the K24s would bolt up, but I haven't looked in to that yet either.

[bradthebold]

Comparing torque vs RPM, your graph shows KO4s making 325ft/lbs at ~2650rpm, RS6 at 3450rpm, and 770s at 3600. Is that a fair way to compare? So it's about 800rpm difference between KO4s and RS6s and 150rpm difference between RS6s and 770s. If that's right, then it seems like the only reason to go with K24s would be to save money as they spool almost the same as 770s and have a lot less potential. I'm not sure how the K24 hybrids compare to what you count as RS6s though.

[FlyboyS4]

Yeah, I was referring to 770s. From the thread earlier talking about F21s vs K24s, it was said the SRMs will spool 600rpm later than the F21s, though your graph shows a bigger gap than that. So what would RPM numbers be for making 20psi? KO4 - 3100, K24 - 3800, 770 - 4000? If 770s are within 200rpm of K24s and are a lot more capable, that would make 770s more tempting, though they do cost like $3k more.

I have 034 downpipes right now. I had guessed since they make 770 specific downpipes, they would require different ones, but I have no idea. I had assumed the K24s would bolt up, but I haven't looked in to that yet either.

K04 and F21 are different, F21 spools less linearly so that the K04 generates more TQ early on although they may get to 20 psi about the same rpm. Boost logs of 770's are hard to come by, I've got one that shows a 770 hitting 20 psi at 3700 rpm.

[LINDW4LL]

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

[S4gasm aka LOTR]

Sometime next spring I'll have some numbers to contribute to this thread. I just ordered my RS6 K24's from SRM, I'll start my motor pull sometime this spring. I'll have it dyno'd at AMD when I'm done with her.

[bradthebold]

So, according to this graph, at 2000mbar:
K04 - 3000 RPM
F21 - 3350
K24 - 3500
770 - 3950

This is a different picture. Do plain K04s really make boost 350rpm before F21s? That seems like too big of a difference. And then only 150 rpm difference between F21s and K24s? That seems like too small of a difference. And then 2000mbar would equal 14.3psi of boost? It doesn't take up to 3000-3350 RPM for K04 framed turbos to make 14lbs of boost.

[Drehmoment]

To do 770 's right you need at least15K in funds.....are you willing to do that ?

770 's usually require divorced DP's .

[LINDW4LL]

So, according to this graph, at 2000mbar:
K04 - 3000 RPM
F21 - 3350
K24 - 3500
770 - 3950

This is a different picture. Do plain K04s really make boost 350rpm before F21s? That seems like too big of a difference. And then only 150 rpm difference between F21s and K24s? That seems like too small of a difference. And then 2000mbar would equal 14.3psi of boost? It doesn't take up to 3000-3350 RPM for K04 framed turbos to make 14lbs of boost.

It appears the maker of that graph went WOT a bit later on his F21 log than the others.

But it's still a good general reference.

[bradthebold]

Yeah, so if I only look at K04 numbers, K24s spool about 500rpm later and 770s ~1k rpm, at least according to this graph. If that's true, K24s would be a perfect middle ground.

I probably wouldn't do a 770 build, I would just buy a 770 car due to the amount of work/cost required. Granted, 15k seems high reusing my exhaust and intercoolers and selling the stage 3 parts I'd replace.

I was thinking I would do a K24 build when I rebuild my trans next year, but if I have to replace the clutch, injectors, fuel pump, cams, rods, meth, and tune then that's pretty much the same amount of work a 770 build would need.

So it would be like ~$6000 for what I listed plus tune and any labor, $9k for 770s, if I can re-use downpipes on both. Plus probably a couple thousand for miscellaneous, minus a couple thousand for parts I'd sell. It's a tough choice. The car has been stage 3 for 10k miles and the previous owner replaced pretty much everything, so I'd like to keep my car. And for ~$10k I could buy a whole other car. The other option would be just to add meth and be happy with better spool and still being faster than 95% of cars.

[FlyboyS4]

This is a different picture. Do plain K04s really make boost 350rpm before F21s? That seems like too big of a difference. And then only 150 rpm difference between F21s and K24s? That seems like too small of a difference. And then 2000mbar would equal 14.3psi of boost? It doesn't take up to 3000-3350 RPM for K04 framed turbos to make 14lbs of boost.

I've seen that chart before, and discounted it, there's too many odd things taking place to have any confidence in it as a comparison.

To do 770 's right you need at least15K in funds.....are you willing to do that ?

770 's usually require divorced DP's .

To do them right? What does that mean? For comparison sake, how much does it cost to do K24's right?

The 770's were designed as a drop in turbo, there's no requirement to use anything other than a standard DP.

[christianb5s4]

I don't know, I think SRMs are worth it. I think you could easily surpass 500 with meth, probably close on pump too. Most people are just conservative. Supporting mods like 2.8 cams (or heads) should help too and give a nice gain. The top end is so much better than K04s.

I think the SRMs are perfect if you don't get caught up in the huge numbers game. Honestly 600whp is massive power and I think this setup is perfect combination of big power while avoiding lagginess.

If I end up going this route, I'd do 2.8 cams and have two ECUs; a 93 tune and an E85 tune, running E85 whenever possible.

Some tuners like Daz can load multiple tunes on an ECU without soldering, it's switchable using the brake and gas peddle.

[Drehmoment]

I've seen that chart before, and discounted it, there's too many odd things taking place to have any confidence in it as a comparison.



To do them right? What does that mean? For comparison sake, how much does it cost to do K24's right?



The 770's were designed as a drop in turbo, there's no requirement to use anything other than a standard DP.

To reach the claimed 770 crank hp , what's that in wheel dyno gospel, 600-650 whp ? Countless times proven on this board that you need turbos fueling down pipes/ exhaust heads valve train clutch rods complete motor build tuning etc = that's a min of 12-13 k in parts right there without labor or dyno tuning ....if you believe that you slap a pair of 770's with divorced down pipes on plus fueling/ tuning and get to their claimed 770 chp potential then I have some Nigerian money orders I would like to sell you for 50 cent of the dollar.

[OHS4]

I run k24's with 750cc injectors, hitting 22 psi on the stock intercoolers and running like crap (base daz tune ((was my fault not his)) with multiple boost leaks (since then I have fixed) was running 3.5 fats easy in the 90+ degree summer. Since then I have fixed the boost leaks, got some srm intercoolers, and am going to install my 4 bar map and go to 25psi and hook up my meth pump. I'm sure it will easily hit sub 3 second fats.

[gmdiluca]

I run k24's with 750cc injectors, hitting 22 psi on the stock intercoolers and running like crap (base daz tune ((was my fault not his)) with multiple boost leaks (since then I have fixed) was running 3.5 fats easy in the 90+ degree summer. Since then I have fixed the boost leaks, got some srm intercoolers, and am going to install my 4 bar map and go to 25psi and hook up my meth pump. I'm sure it will easily hit sub 3 second fats.

Stock rods?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlyboyS4]

To reach the claimed 770 crank hp , what's that in wheel dyno gospel, 600-650 whp ? Countless times proven on this board that you need turbos fueling down pipes/ exhaust heads valve train clutch rods complete motor build tuning etc = that's a min of 12-13 k in parts right there without labor or dyno tuning ....if you believe that you slap a pair of 770's with divorced down pipes on plus fueling/ tuning and get to their claimed 770 chp potential then I have some Nigerian money orders I would like to sell you for 50 cent of the dollar.

Ok, I don't assume that a build requires running a turbo near the maximum boost level.

So what's the cost of doing an SRM K24 build 'right'?

[jaychen]

i spent right on 6kAUD for everything.

k24
full exhaust
srm ic
inlets
shrouds
bi-pipes
injectors
wideband
boostgauge
clutch
fuel pump + holder

as well as the misc shit i broke etc

tune is another 500 from daz

[Drehmoment]

Ok, I don't assume that a build requires running a turbo near the maximum boost level.

So what's the cost of doing an SRM K24 build 'right'?

Budget turbo= budget build

Drop in rods, don't bother with balancing maybe rings compression lowering Hg 2.8 cams IC fuel/tune and a clutch that holds

[FlyboyS4]

So they stack up like:

Countless times proven on this board that you need turbos fueling down pipes/ exhaust heads valve train clutch rods complete motor build tuning etc = that's a min of 12-13 k in parts right there without labor or dyno tuning ....

Budget turbo= budget build

Drop in rods, don't bother with balancing maybe rings compression lowering Hg 2.8 cams IC fuel/tune and a clutch that holds

---------770----K24
Turbos Y Y
Fueling Y Y
DP's Y ?
Exhaust Y ?
Heads Y ?
Valvetrain Y ?
Cams ? Y
Clutch Y Y
Rods Y Y
Complete motor build?
Tuning Y Y
IC ? Y


I don't see where one (RS6 K24) adds up to being a budget build and the other (770) is "a min of 12-13 k in parts right there without labor or dyno tuning".

[Drehmoment]

Please put me on your ignore list

[FlyboyS4]

Please put me on your ignore list

Questionable statements deserve to be challenged, if you want to be ignored don't make them.

[bradthebold]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post9041218

Here's a post from jibberjive with britishturbo in agreement.

"As you can see, the 770 car is hitting 500wtq at about 4200 and 4300RPM, compared to the RS6 K24 dyno sheet showing that car hitting 500wtq closer to ~4600RPM. Both cars running E85, both cars 2.7l on stock pistons, and both cars tuned by the same tuner. The dynos are both posted below for comparison."

I would assume an E85 vs E85 comparison would be similar to a pump vs pump comparison, assuming other mods are similar.

[Mark00s4]

This is a good post potentially, I too like the OP am contemplating going beyond st3. I went the Franken route and love the car but looking for more. Where do 605.2 fit in as compared to srm 24 ? Any spool , hp,tq numbers.

[MDJ]

Questionable statements deserve to be challenged, if you want to be ignored don't make them.

Haha, it's so true.

I know they haven't been mentioned here yet, but my 605 car cost me about 8k in parts. Perhaps another 300 for a custom tune.

No heads, no Pistons, no rings, no rods, no cams, no e85, no meth.

441/482 @ 4100 @ over a mile high on 91 pump gas.

It's been a while since I've done some real reading around here, too. Things seem to have taken a positive turn. This thread is a great example.

If it helps at all, OP, I would have upped my regulator and gone with bigger than 72lb injectors on my car.

[Jmills]

I've seen that chart before, and discounted it, there's too many odd things taking place to have any confidence in it as a comparison.

To do them right? What does that mean? For comparison sake, how much does it cost to do K24's right?

The 770's were designed as a drop in turbo, there's no requirement to use anything other than a standard DP.

To reach the claimed 770 crank hp , what's that in wheel dyno gospel, 600-650 whp ? Countless times proven on this board that you need turbos fueling down pipes/ exhaust heads valve train clutch rods complete motor build tuning etc = that's a min of 12-13 k in parts right there without labor or dyno tuning ....if you believe that you slap a pair of 770's with divorced down pipes on plus fueling/ tuning and get to their claimed 770 chp potential then I have some Nigerian money orders I would like to sell you for 50 cent of the dollar.

I agree with both of you on several points and I do agree with Drehmoment about the 12-15k to do 770s "right" as I was looking at buying a 770 built engine/clutch/exhaust at drastically cut prices for $10k.

The way I see the "right" aspect of things is percent of maximum operating potential.

Sure you can slap 770s and DPs on with minimum fueling and stock ICs the same as you can for K24s but you're not going to be anywhere near MOP for the 770s

You would be much closer with the K24s.

770 people and K24 people are completely different. I personally lean towards the K24s because I can't fathom spending double the money on 770s and not being able to run them near MOP.

[SoloMotorsports]

I'd do rods just to be safe and so that you have the option of running E85. Also aysix ran out of 60lb injector on pump alone so you will definitely need 72 at minimum for pump gas. Larger if considering E85.

I'm not sure what a single 044 can support fuel-wise, but I think a single Walbro can get you to near 600whp with E85. Worst case scenario if you are really pushing the car, you add a second in-tank pump using SRM's dual pump bracket.

Like Lindw4ll said,

750cc is good at 4 bar for a mild e85 or pump SRM K24 setup. When pushing the limits on these turbos with E85 you will want 1000cc.

[Mocke]

I'd do rods just to be safe and so that you have the option of running E85. Also aysix ran out of 60lb injector on pump alone so you will definitely need 72 at minimum for pump gas. Larger if considering E85.

I'm not sure what a single 044 can support fuel-wise, but I think a single Walbro can get you to near 600whp with E85. Worst case scenario if you are really pushing the car, you add a second in-tank pump using SRM's dual pump bracket.

Singel Walbro will never get you near 600whp with standard FPR on E85.
I dont know, why ppl are spreading this info. It is not right.
Around 500whp with upgraded fuelrails and running right AFR all the way to redline is more like it.

[landfill]

^^^The walbro 450 is 450lph supposedly their were supra guys running 700whp on the single pump.
Are you thinking about the correct model from walbro? You could be right though you might need 2 I'm not %100
sure.

[Jmills]

^^^The walbro 450 is 450lph supposedly their were supra guys running 700whp on the single pump.
Are you thinking about the correct model from walbro? You could be right though you might need 2 I'm not %100
sure.

I know that a lot of the Evo community are running single 450s to high power levels on e85.

[slow ride]

I believe base fuel pressure on a EVO is 3 bar which would help the pump some.