Flash Back To Stock Tune Detectable?

[Shimmy]

So for GIAC, Unitronic, APR, etc...I install the software using their OBDII cable, then flash back for dealership service visits (still under warranty).

Can the dealership detect that it was previously tuned?

Is there a certain amount of times I can flash back and forth?

Lots of tunes optimized for 93 octane... We have 92 in WA state. Is it better to go with a 91 tune or 93 tune?

[bermudakid]

^ APR claims that going back to stock is 100% back to stock. As in your ECU & Flash counter go back to what they were before you ever got tuned so Audi would not know (but you need to be flashed to stock, not putting it in the stock boost map). Guys have claimed it works.

If you dont have 93 I dont think you would be advised to run a 93 tune, you'll have to go 91.

[LINDW4LL]

So for GIAC, Unitronic, APR, etc...I install the software using their OBDII cable, then flash back for dealership service visits (still under warranty).

Can the dealership detect that it was previously tuned?

None of the Audi tuners offer home/self-flashing. There is no "flashing it yourself" using an OBD2 cable. You'll need to have it done at the GIAC/APR/REVO dealer. Same with being flashed back to stock.

And no, if you flash back to stock prior to visiting the Audi dealership, they cannot detect the tune.

[crash1121]

Not to scare you, but Audi actually DOES have the ability to see when the ECU was altered. So, if an APR/GIAC/REVO dealer flashed your ECU and put it back to stock, Audi can absolutely tell that it was flashed by a non-Audi source due to logs that are kept in the ECU. And no, these logs cannot be deleted. But is it likely that your dealer would search that a tune was previously installed if it was returned back stock?......probably not. Flashing these cars is ALWAYS a gamble when under warranty.

I was told that Audi could detect whether my ECU was altered by my SA after having my engine replaced, and confirmed this with the guys at a local shop (Apikol) to see if he was just trying to intimidate/prevent me from reflashing. The guys at Apikol explained that there are logs that are kept and cannot be deleted.

[crash1121]

Oh, and to answer your other question, your ECU will slightly de-tune itself if you run a higher octane file with lower octane fuel. So that being said, I would go with the 91 file if you're running 92 fuel. I'm pretty sure there's a possibility that the ECU could adapt UP to the 92 octane fuel if you run a 91 file...

[LINDW4LL]

Not to scare you, but Audi actually DOES have the ability to see when the ECU was altered. So, if an APR/GIAC/REVO dealer flashed your ECU and put it back to stock, Audi can absolutely tell that it was flashed by a non-Audi source due to logs that are kept in the ECU. And no, these logs cannot be deleted. But is it likely that your dealer would search that a tune was previously installed if it was returned back stock?......probably not.

Tell that to the hundreds of us who flash back to stock before visiting the dealer and haven't gotten flagged TD1 even after the dealer runs a spec/actual. Also, yes it IS likely that the dealer will check for a tune. They are required to before completing any warranty work, and will usually do it during a normal service as well.

There are hundreds of people on this forum who use this method without issue. I've yet to hear of one confirmed case where someone was flagged TD1 after being flashed back to stock (note: not stock mode, the tune needs to be completely removed).


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[AudiSportB5S4]

Go with a 91 tune, the slightly better resistance to knock in 92 octane fuel will allow it to adjust up the * of ignition timing retard as the ECU sees fit.

[Jerry1847]

None of the Audi tuners offer home/self-flashing. There is no "flashing it yourself" using an OBD2 cable. You'll need to have it done at the GIAC/APR/REVO dealer. Same with being flashed back to stock.

And no, if you flash back to stock prior to visiting the Audi dealership, they cannot detect the tune.

Eurodyne maestro you can do yourself.... still needs the ecu bench flashed however.

[Jerry1847]

Tell that to the hundreds of us who flash back to stock before visiting the dealer and haven't gotten flagged TD1 even after the dealer runs a spec/actual. Also, yes it IS likely that the dealer will check for a tune. They are required to before completing any warranty work, and will usually do it during a normal service as well.

There are hundreds of people on this forum who use this method without issue. I've yet to hear of one confirmed case where someone was flagged TD1 after being flashed back to stock (note: not stock mode, the tune needs to be completely removed).


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I still disagree, crash is correct. the flash counter is an easy check but there are other ways to check. Also, none of the tuners claim to be undetectable if flashed back to stock (last i checked). I have not seen APR make that claim anywhere. If APR reps are stating that in PM's you would think they would make the claim in the marketing (because it would be a big deal). APR reps have been known to be totally full of sh*t.

Be safe and assume AoA can find the tune. Keep in mind, AoA isnt stupid and has been dealing with tunes for a long time. Seeing a flash count of 1 on a car thats had work done and should have a higher flash count can also set off red flags.

[LINDW4LL]

Yes, tuning the car is a risk and you should always be prepared for loss of warranty. I'm with you on that.

All I'm saying is that, as of this moment, crash is incorrect, and the tunes are not detectable once you've flashed back to stock.





PS Of course the tuners won't advertise that in their marketing material. That's a lot of liability considering Audi could come out with an update at anytime to their spec/actual that somehow allows them to see that the car was tuned.

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[crash1121]

So what you're saying is that our cars' ECUs don't collect logs over time?

[b6onboost]

There is a difference between being undetectable to a given detection procedure, like an AoA scan, and being 100% undetectable.

[darkstarghost]

Isnt there a detection method via size of files on ecu?

[Shimmy]

None of the Audi tuners offer home/self-flashing. There is no "flashing it yourself" using an OBD2 cable.

And no, if you flash back to stock prior to visiting the Audi dealership, they cannot detect the tune.

I thought GIAC and Unitronic all had remote tuning capability.

I was told that Audi could detect whether my ECU was altered by my SA after having my engine replaced, and confirmed this with the guys at a local shop (Apikol) to see if he was just trying to intimidate/prevent me from reflashing. The guys at Apikol explained that there are logs that are kept and cannot be deleted.

Good to know. My BMW had data logging so the dealer could see how many times it had been updated, tune flashed, or manipulated, all the above.

[NGittings91]

Audi only looks at if there is a tune or not. Yes there is a way to count the size of the file on the ecu but only the dealer sees that information. Anytime you retune the size of the file will increase but as long as the stock tune is flashed on the ecu then all Audi sees is that stock flash.

[Jerry1847]

So you can run a checksum and it will validate a file. But, using a factory image will result in the same checksum. So if APR is flashing you back to stock in needs to be a clean factory image. Does AoA look at checksums or validate software versions? I don't know. For example, if APR (or your shop) flashes you back to an older factory image and a dealer sees that you should be on version 10.1 and your on 8.5, then red flag. Point being, APR is known to be full of shit sometimes, and you need to cover your ass. Engines are not cheap.

My Cobb tuner for my last BMW allowed for a full return to stock, with a flash counter reset, and could still be detected on the N55's (new 335 engine). Just depends on if/how something fails in your engine. You run 91 and activate the 100 octane tune, drive crazy in the summer and blow something up, your probably screwed. You have a common failure, the SA may not think or want to look past a flash counter.

I just like telling people to assume the warranty is void. If you don't get caught, your winning 😁

The real question..... Why doesn't audi have something like the Cobb accessport? For real, best tuner ever.

[AudiSportB5S4]

While we're on the topic of tunes and stock.. What is the consensus on basic tuning on the A4's 2 liter? Does it wake it up a bit?

[booost]

While we're on the topic of tunes and stock.. What is the consensus on basic tuning on the A4's 2 liter? Does it wake it up a bit?

Yes

[Fox Fader]

I wish I could get more of a solid answer on this. It'd help me make up my mind whether to run over to auburn to get this A4 tuned or not.

[AudiSportB5S4]

Yes

Okay cool. I sold my B5 earlier this year which made 550 crank horse and it all started with a tune so I'm scared.. Lol. Although that's why I got the automatic, because I can't at this point in my life piss away the amount of money I did on that car... At least yet :)

[freesole]

Sorry, wrong forum.

[COLD13]

I might get banned for asking but why do you guys think that Audi should warranty your car after you've altered it to perform beyond the specs that their engineers set on the vehicle? Personally, I don't care if you get away with it, I'm just curious on the reasoning.

[rdenivo]

My feeling is if they can cheat and alter their diesels cars and not see a problem with it, then anyone should be allowed to chip their car without a problem.

I might get banned for asking but why do you guys think that Audi should warranty your car after you've altered it to perform beyond the specs that their engineers set on the vehicle? Personally, I don't care if you get away with it, I'm just curious on the reasoning.

[b6onboost]

My feeling is if they can cheat and alter their diesels cars and not see a problem with it, then anyone should be allowed to chip their car without a problem.

Well vw/audi is paying for it now. You're free to chip your car, but you too may pay for it later.


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[VeeDubbinJetta]

I might get banned for asking but why do you guys think that Audi should warranty your car after you've altered it to perform beyond the specs that their engineers set on the vehicle? Personally, I don't care if you get away with it, I'm just curious on the reasoning.

I think it all depends on what you are trying to get warrantied. If I run a tune and my turbo goes, I wouldn't expect Audi to pick that up as the tune directly plays a factor with the turbo, however if my wheel bearing fails or my water pump goes, I'd expect Audi to cover it.

[hyperunion]

I think it all depends on what you are trying to get warrantied. If I run a tune and my turbo goes, I wouldn't expect Audi to pick that up as the tune directly plays a factor with the turbo, however if my wheel bearing fails or my water pump goes, I'd expect Audi to cover it.

Good luck on that... Water pump they'll blame tune... Bearings, they'll blame aftermarket wheels and suspension...

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[jcun]

Yes

I want to tune my car so bad but scared if it kills anything in the engine then I'll be screwed.

Any one know of the longest duration or how many miles one can go with a stage 2 tune? Probably should be asking this in the ask any dumb question thread.


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[b6onboost]

From my experience, indefinitely. I put over 100k miles on a tuned A4, running twice the stock boost, without problem. I know countless others who have as well on different VW/Audi platforms. I'm convinced that reputable tunes are perfectly safe and within the OE engine/turbo/hardware capabilities. 99.9% of the time, if something breaks, it is an Audi defect which also has a history of failing on a stock cars. The only impact of the tune is that it may have brought the issue up sooner, rather than later, and of course that Audi can deny the warranty repair.

Any one know of the longest duration or how many miles one can go with a stage 2 tune? Probably should be asking this in the ask any dumb question thread.

In my opinion, the party responsible for the defect should cover it. If a given defect is common on A4s, Audi should warranty it regardless of tune, because they know its their defect and that it occurs on stock cars. If a given defect is something Audi has never seen occur on stock cars, then they can reasonably blame the customer's modification and deny it. That's fair right? But, since Audi clearly states a tune voids powertrain warranty, they can use it to scapegoat their defects. Legally...that's fine. Ethically...its pretty crappy.

I might get banned for asking but why do you guys think that Audi should warranty your car after you've altered it to perform beyond the specs that their engineers set on the vehicle? Personally, I don't care if you get away with it, I'm just curious on the reasoning.

[JoeA5b8_stageII]

Hello guys, my ECU was flashed to OEM stock by a workshop and my file was deleted, i went to my apr dealer and he plugged in the apr cable and the ‘file not found’ error came up,
My question is, don’t I have the right to get a re-flash with the same file from APR (stage 3) since i have the same vin and same ecu

They should have theTechnical logs online Which they can check to make sure