Newest and biggest injector for the FSI

[Van Black]

@Canadian, what injectors did you get? Also, there's a good redneck way of fitting the harness to the injectors if you can't find the connectors, unfortunately it means hacking
the car harness or finding male plugs that will fit the engine harness:
https://youtu.be/Ti69JekZyto?t=417

[canadianA4B7]

@Canadian, what injectors did you get? Also, there's a good redneck way of fitting the harness to the injectors if you can't find the connectors, unfortunately it means hacking
the car harness or finding male plugs that will fit the engine harness:
https://youtu.be/Ti69JekZyto?t=417

079906036N Injector it's a gem 2 rs4 unit from ordered from a fellow in Poland.

I have been considering doing just what you linked in the video. For me sourcing the oem plugs and adapting the harness with them is more of a complete "build" on this project. With your solution injector becomes permanent to harness. Which later could require a harness replacement....... Either way I slice it could mean the same now that I think while I type....

I have sourced a TSI harness locally. Everything looks to be the TSI harnesses use similar style connectors being these came off or a 4.2 NA motor or 4.0Tfsi motor im hopeful the TSI injector harness has what I need. The other tricky part is finding injector install kits for these 4 units. Seems this is becoming a bunch harder then I originally thought. Sale posted said harness included, I never thought about re installing them, or if the original pieces would all be included. So it seems I've gone down a road less travelled and run into more issues along this route.

[james12lucy]

079906036N Injector it's a gem 2 rs4 unit from ordered from a fellow in Poland.

I have been considering doing just what you linked in the video. For me sourcing the oem plugs and adapting the harness with them is more of a complete "build" on this project. With your solution injector becomes permanent to harness. Which later could require a harness replacement....... Either way I slice it could mean the same now that I think while I type....

I have sourced a TSI harness locally. Everything looks to be the TSI harnesses use similar style connectors being these came off or a 4.2 NA motor or 4.0Tfsi motor im hopeful the TSI injector harness has what I need. The other tricky part is finding injector install kits for these 4 units. Seems this is becoming a bunch harder then I originally thought. Sale posted said harness included, I never thought about re installing them, or if the original pieces would all be included. So it seems I've gone down a road less travelled and run into more issues along this route.

@canadian, use the part numbers on ETKA to find the associated installation parts. Then ask the fellas at Owasco to order the needed install part numbers. If not, send them to me and I'll work my contacts at PFAFF and see if we can do this the logical way. The Polish seller isn't responding to me either. Le sigh.


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[canadianA4B7]

Connector part number I found is

4H0 973 702A seems like a basic connector used for multiple items in the newer models.

I've reached out to the tuners in Europe for the part number aswell. Local TSI unit seems to be the same part number aswell. But owasco may be the next stop on my list. Neil@owasco is damn good at finding stuff.

[NostrumEnergy]

Great info but I think you maybe missed what we're trying to do. We've got EA113 engines and are looking at using some of the newer injectors in place of our older hdev1 style injectors, not the other way around.

Sorry for the late reply. I understand what you are trying to do by using an HDEV5 injector in an EA113 platform engine. That is why I noted the difference in drive currents between HDEV1 and HDEV5.
Remember that GDI injectors are flow classed at 100bar (industry standard). When we test stock injectors we prefer to use the vehicle based drive profile. This gives the most accurate data for the flow curve.
If you are re-purposing an HDEV5 injector and driving it with an HDEV1 drive profile, it may not flow as much as you think. ("HDEV1 use a low pull in current, only 6-8Amps. While HDEV 5 uses 11-12Amps.") The HDEV5 injector may not open as quickly or as much (as it should) with a lower drive current. Inversely, you may want to try driving the HDEV1 with a higher current to see how much you can squeeze out of it by increasing the opening speed and the maximum lift. If you are able to get to drive current, then you can change the drive profile in the EA113 to run the higher HDEV 5 drive current profile. If you tell us the injector drive data for EA113, we can test some of the HDEV5 part numbers at that profile to see what happens.

I have some part numbers that canadianA4B7 sent me and from some our own search. But our bench is busy with GM LT injectors right now, so it may take a few weeks.

There were some questions about spray patterns. The HDEV 5, overall, has much better spray plume quality than the HDEV1 (when compared to particle distribution and average particle size).

If anyone has any other info we can use for testing injectors, please let us know.
-Frank

[p0isin]

Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread. Good info

[canadianA4B7]

Connector part number I found is

4H0 973 702A seems like a basic connector used for multiple items in the newer models.

I've reached out to the tuners in Europe for the part number aswell. Local TSI unit seems to be the same part number aswell. But owasco may be the next stop on my list. Neil@owasco is damn good at finding stuff.

2015 A4 2.0T harness uses the correct connectors, picked this up yesterday. Still looking for wiring diagram to do the swap.

[al3k]

Sorry for the late reply. I understand what you are trying to do by using an HDEV5 injector in an EA113 platform engine. That is why I noted the difference in drive currents between HDEV1 and HDEV5.
Remember that GDI injectors are flow classed at 100bar (industry standard). When we test stock injectors we prefer to use the vehicle based drive profile. This gives the most accurate data for the flow curve.
If you are re-purposing an HDEV5 injector and driving it with an HDEV1 drive profile, it may not flow as much as you think. ("HDEV1 use a low pull in current, only 6-8Amps. While HDEV 5 uses 11-12Amps.") The HDEV5 injector may not open as quickly or as much (as it should) with a lower drive current. Inversely, you may want to try driving the HDEV1 with a higher current to see how much you can squeeze out of it by increasing the opening speed and the maximum lift. If you are able to get to drive current, then you can change the drive profile in the EA113 to run the higher HDEV 5 drive current profile. If you tell us the injector drive data for EA113, we can test some of the HDEV5 part numbers at that profile to see what happens.

I have some part numbers that canadianA4B7 sent me and from some our own search. But our bench is busy with GM LT injectors right now, so it may take a few weeks.

There were some questions about spray patterns. The HDEV 5, overall, has much better spray plume quality than the HDEV1 (when compared to particle distribution and average particle size).

If anyone has any other info we can use for testing injectors, please let us know.
-Frank

I didnt quite understand this, is this related to injector "deadtime" in the ECU tune? or is it a physical difference in the electronic components that the ME9.1 wont be able to drive the multiport injectors with current they were designed to run?

[turbo944s2]

I've had mine for a long time, trying to figure out how to install them(which install kit to use)

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[canadianA4B7]

[QUOTE=turbo944s2;12379513]I've had mine for a long time, trying to figure out how to install them(which install kit to use)

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk[/QUOT

I just ordered the last set I cud find of the upper pieces (if you need a few I can likely spare some or provide futher details), then you'll need the TSI install kit. You'll need the blue tops for fitting our fuel rail, the TSI bottom (looks like a crown w 2 or 3 legs) mount piece, then the rs4 c clip pieces for the top (similar on oem/s3/rs4 gen 1 and 2) slight differences). I've test fit them 3x with what I have laying around and this is the best setup I've come up with.

I have to get some more measurements yet, but they are in deed 1mm shorter as seen earlier in this thread. Does not look like an issue when intake/fuel rail attached.

I can get some more pics when I get back from cottage country. They are indeed different but the "flat spot" bottom of them does seem to fit 100% same location as oem. the top C clip pieces are a bit different but may be interchangeable. I may know why these ones are specific to the Conti injectors.

[Van Black]

I didnt quite understand this, is this related to injector "deadtime" in the ECU tune? or is it a physical difference in the electronic components that the ME9.1 wont be able to drive the multiport injectors with current they were designed to run?

This is an example:
The HDEV1 work on 6A. So if the ECU sends 6A for 50ms the injector will open 100% for 50ms
THE HDEV5 work on 11A. These injectors will need an 11A signal to open 100%.
If you put HDEV5 injectors on an ECU designed to work on 6A, the ECU will send a 6A signal for 50ms but the injector will open just 55% for said period of time.

[canadianA4B7]

This is an example:
The HDEV1 work on 6A. So if the ECU sends 6A for 50ms the injector will open 100% for 50ms
THE HDEV5 work on 11A. These injectors will need an 11A signal to open 100%.
If you put HDEV5 injectors on an ECU designed to work on 6A, the ECU will send a 6A signal for 50ms but the injector will open just 55% for said period of time.

This i have been thinking about.

[al3k]

This is an example:
The HDEV1 work on 6A. So if the ECU sends 6A for 50ms the injector will open 100% for 50ms
THE HDEV5 work on 11A. These injectors will need an 11A signal to open 100%.
If you put HDEV5 injectors on an ECU designed to work on 6A, the ECU will send a 6A signal for 50ms but the injector will open just 55% for said period of time.

Im not gonna say your wrong but it doesnt sound right to me, cause in my head its not like the ECU is sending amps its the injectors which draws current (A), the ecu sends the voltage, and if you try to draw more amps then you can supply I guess you could potensially break /burn components in the ecu. But I dont know maybe our me9.1 ecu can handle the amps

[canadianA4B7]

Im trying to understand this too. In my head it should be an adjustable signal sent from 1 point to another. In industry we send mA signals quite often or mV for some things. How this injector request I'm unsure. Or what Ecu signal is sending even.

I guess bench testing and injector with 12vdc might work, but that wud just open and close it. Reading the current while doing so may give better ideas.... Just unsure of injector operating voltage range.

[canadianA4B7]

W maestro I know there's a few "tricks" to dial in injectors. I'm unsure if it's voltage or current that's being adjusted. Will go through software in a few days.

[Charles.waite]

The injectors have different impedance. They DRAW more current at the same voltage. Ohms law.

The problem could lie in the current handling abilities of the injector driving components of the ECU. They probably aren't equipped to reliably handle the current draw and likely have a current limiter in the loop somewhere. I suppose you could in theory put some sort of current amplifier inline that boosts the current but I don't know how that would be feasible.

Or maybe he mistyped and he meant Volts?

[Okedokey]

The impedance will be fixed as will the voltage. Therefore the current will be fixed too. The PWM will change however based on the frequency so that should be the variable in the tune

[Van Black]

Oke's right, somewhat.
This guy explains PWM better than I could write it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmPziPfaByw

Now, at least in my line of work, there are PWM solenoids that work on Amp modulation, not Voltage. They always get 8.5V but depending on the Amps
sent to them they open more or less.

I'm not saying the Audi injectors work the same way, I never tested it.
But whether they work on V or A, it doesn't matter. An injector made to work on 11V/A will open ~50% on a 6V/A system.

[canadianA4B7]

I fully understand the concern. I'm looking into this. Trying to find all the data on both sets.



They do fit quite nicely. Little deeper then in this photo is where they seat fully. The upper rings I've found may be specific to these (4.0T S6 RS4 2014 ish) have a small section on them that is different then ours or the S3 units. Now both fit but I feel the gen 2 pieces are a bit more snug. The top pieces I've gone with the s3 o ring and blue washer (sizes are same by eye)

Harness: seller has said he forgot to ship harness. As of a few days ago I believe he has shipped it. Still able to make my own but looking for diagrams.

These are really a cheap alternative. For about $150-250 full set, harness adapter I will post up as I get it sorted. Maybe $50. Then the tuning side. But if you've gone this route already your likely outside the OTS tuners capabilities or maybe they are working on this aswell.

I'm amazed at how well they fit.

[turbo944s2]

Hmm the stock install kit works?

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[canadianA4B7]

Hmm the stock install kit works?

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Yes kinda. The rubber and plastic pieces you see are stock (a4 or S3 injector), that metal piece you see I am using off the 4.0T fsi pieces (I received more yesterday can show differences if needed). Last the piece that seats these into the head is also 4.0T fsi specific (from what I've gathered).

[turbo944s2]

Hmm can you take a picture of all of the loose parts and list part numbers ?

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[canadianA4B7]

Part 2 can likely be changed for the part in the bag from part 1 but I think there is a reason for the altered piece in my photo, it has a bit more hold to the head walls when fully pressed in and believe it to give that extra hold.

[canadianA4B7]

Got them all mounted in today. Fit is good. Intake does line up perfectly. And will seat them 100%.

[canadianA4B7]

And harness adaptation just completed now at 4am Canada time. After work today I'll swap in the new/custom harness, plug in all the loose connectors.

[Charles.waite]

Any updates on this Canadian? I feel like you've posted about these before, but it would be nice to close the loop on this if you can. A friend and I were discussing injectors and it jogged my memory on this thread.

[james12lucy]

Any updates on this Canadian? I feel like you've posted about these before, but it would be nice to close the loop on this if you can. A friend and I were discussing injectors and it jogged my memory on this thread.

I’m pretty sure he has the harness finished and had them installed. Then pulled them when he got his car back from having the timing set, so he could get it tuned and running properly with the S3 injectors.

Once dialed in. I believe he’s swapping back and modifying the tune to suit. I also know he moved this past weekend and has been swamped as a result.


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[Charles.waite]

Sounds like a whole lotta excuses to me...

[StatusQuo]

I run the classic RS4 injectors.

IMHO, i like them. They are cheap as hell at 57 bucks an injector, and flow gobs of fuel. Not to mention that it sounds raw on straightpipe. The cold start thing isn't really that bad. But once you add in e85, the first cold start in the morning isn't that good. Ill deal with it. i'm on stock internals and can't afford to be pinging.

I would fix the cold start somewhat on e85 but maestro doesn't have access to those maps..

[canadianA4B7]

Sounds like a whole lotta excuses to me...

I know eh, what an asshole am I for not completing something! Ya I just moved, still living out of a few boxes. I've got a bunch of stuff to still sort out. Due to IE intake my starts are complete shit. (Thanks maestro). Even though they have opened the maps needed for the gen 2 injectors there's no info on them at all. So I was slightly lead down a road I know little about. I've emailed do tuning again for a tune revision but never heard back. So it's likely time to abandon maestro and switch over to BDM for tuning. Which I was starting just as I got this job offer and moved.

I'll sort the boost leak issue and the p2014 code out hopefully soon (p2014 is a mystery). I feel like this will become next summers project to finalize. Just too much on the plate at this time. And car will go into storage for winter sooner then expected. Due to weather in the new area being far more damp then I thought. Stupid me deciding to live on Mohawk bay in Ontario Canada.

[connor123me]

I know I'm late but if anyone else makes it down this thread to find big injectors for their BT build, I am working with a manufacturer to make custom Bosch HDEV5 Injectors with a significantly higher flow. If there is an interest I will order more and sell them.

[AudiB720TS]

I know I'm late but if anyone else makes it down this thread to find big injectors for their BT build, I am working with a manufacturer to make custom Bosch HDEV5 Injectors with a significantly higher flow. If there is an interest I will order more and sell them.

Why reinvent the wheel?

You have several options at this point:

Nostrum
Mabotech
AKS Tuning
R-Tech tuning

Plus (some work involved):

Dynodrome
RS3

[Jayz691]

Why reinvent the wheel?

You have several options at this point:

Nostrum
Mabotech
AKS Tuning
R-Tech tuning

Plus (some work involved):

Dynodrome
RS3

Maybe a cheaper option, possibly?

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