Sharing my ways to minimize the cold/ hot start up rattle

[kevinye77137]

Hello everyone! Im a new member and I want to share my ways to minimize my 07 S4 cold/ hot start up rattle noise and maybe protecting the damage from the slapping chains. In the past week of testing it, my start up sound are non existence to barely hearing it rattle compared to rattle almost every time when cold/warm start up. I am not here to advertise in any way. I am here to help or provide an alternative way to people who wants to minimize that nasty start up sound without spending so much $$.

What I used was an additive which is Liqui Moly Ceratec. "CERA TEC is a high-tech ceramic wear protection product for all motor oils. CERA TEC reduces friction and wear due to ceramic compounds that withstand extremely high chemical and thermal loads. Prevents direct metal-to-metal contact, thus increasing the engine service life. The low-friction effect reduces fuel consumption in gasoline and diesel engines." Im pretty sure you guys are super familiar with Liqui Moly and their fabulous witchcraft which proved to work. Here is a link to the product : http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-Cer.../dp/B001CZODH8

After doing research and reviewing what might cause the nasty start up, I encountered this post in Audizine which talks about the possible cause of start up rattle is the check valve being stucked open, therefore, oil in the upper part of the engine will drip back down to the oil pan without retaining it. This will cause a wait time for the oil to travel back to the top of the engine to lubricate itself. I too almost bought the kit to change my check valve but I got laid off on the same day I bought it so i canceled my order.

So I was thinking, if oil drips back down to the oil pan, is there a way to keep some lubricant to attach itself to metal parts even though the engine is off for a long time? I started to research about oil additives and ceramic compounds which prevents metal to metal contact. And i found that Liqui Moly Ceratec provides protection up to 50,000 km. I was amazed how Ceratec can stay in the engine for that long even with continuous oil changes. If Ceramic compound stays in the engine for that long, it must be attaching itself to parts which adds a coating of protection in the engine. Its been a week now with 90% city driving in San Francisco, CA which has so may dam hills that causes extreme loads in low rpm. Ceratec has held up and still minimized the sound of start up as well as engine sound.

How I prepare my setup for Liqui Moly Ceratec:
1. Engine flushing using Lubro-Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush ( some people may think that this will damage the engine even more but I took the risk. It made my engine rev so much smoother and rev happy!) http://www.amazon.com/Lubro-Moly-Pro.../dp/B003U53J0A . You can get this at NAPA
2. Do an oil change! ( I used mobil 1 0w-40. This oil is great but ive been burning oil like crazy so im switching to Redline 5w-40 on the next oil change to slow down the burning)
3. Since our engine requires 9.5 L of oil, leave 600 ml of room for Ceratec. ( You will have to buy two bottles. 1 bottle contains 300ml)
4. Warm up the engine and let it circulate!( you will probably notice a difference in a second start up)

Conclusion: I am not saying this cured my start up rattle but it did however minimize my start up rattle quite a bit! Some people may disagree of using additives and what not. Correct me if im wrong im always happy to learn new things. You can try this out and let us know your results after a few days/ weeks/ months! I will also keep updating my results in another week to see how it held up. Thank you!

[seblove]

Hello everyone! Im a new member and I want to share my ways to minimize my 07 S4 cold/ hot start up rattle noise and maybe protecting the damage from the slapping chains. In the past week of testing it, my start up sound are non existence to barely hearing it rattle compared to rattle almost every time when cold/warm start up. I am not here to advertise in any way. I am here to help or provide an alternative way to people who wants to minimize that nasty start up sound without spending so much $$.

What I used was an additive which is Liqui Moly Ceratec. "CERA TEC is a high-tech ceramic wear protection product for all motor oils. CERA TEC reduces friction and wear due to ceramic compounds that withstand extremely high chemical and thermal loads. Prevents direct metal-to-metal contact, thus increasing the engine service life. The low-friction effect reduces fuel consumption in gasoline and diesel engines." Im pretty sure you guys are super familiar with Liqui Moly and their fabulous witchcraft which proved to work. Here is a link to the product : http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-Cer.../dp/B001CZODH8

After doing research and reviewing what might cause the nasty start up, I encountered this post in Audizine which talks about the possible cause of start up rattle is the check valve being stucked open, therefore, oil in the upper part of the engine will drip back down to the oil pan without retaining it. This will cause a wait time for the oil to travel back to the top of the engine to lubricate itself. I too almost bought the kit to change my check valve but I got laid off on the same day I bought it so i canceled my order.

So I was thinking, if oil drips back down to the oil pan, is there a way to keep some lubricant to attach itself to metal parts even though the engine is off for a long time? I started to research about oil additives and ceramic compounds which prevents metal to metal contact. And i found that Liqui Moly Ceratec provides protection up to 50,000 km. I was amazed how Ceratec can stay in the engine for that long even with continuous oil changes. If Ceramic compound stays in the engine for that long, it must be attaching itself to parts which adds a coating of protection in the engine. Its been a week now with 90% city driving in San Francisco, CA which has so may dam hills that causes extreme loads in low rpm. Ceratec has held up and still minimized the sound of start up as well as engine sound.

How I prepare my setup for Liqui Moly Ceratec:
1. Engine flushing using Lubro-Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush ( some people may think that this will damage the engine even more but I took the risk. It made my engine rev so much smoother and rev happy!) http://www.amazon.com/Lubro-Moly-Pro.../dp/B003U53J0A . You can get this at NAPA
2. Do an oil change! ( I used mobil 1 0w-40. This oil is great but ive been burning oil like crazy so im switching to Redline 5w-40 on the next oil change to slow down the burning)
3. Since our engine requires 9.5 L of oil, leave 600 ml of room for Ceratec. ( You will have to buy two bottles. 1 bottle contains 300ml)
4. Warm up the engine and let it circulate!( you will probably notice a difference in a second start up)

Conclusion: I am not saying this cured my start up rattle but it did however minimize my start up rattle quite a bit! Some people may disagree of using additives and what not. Correct me if im wrong im always happy to learn new things. You can try this out and let us know your results after a few days/ weeks/ months! I will also keep updating my results in another week to see how it held up. Thank you!

I'm curious about this; I'm yet to hear of this solution. I don't have chain rattle but I do whatever I can to prevent it, and I'd personally love to hear dparm chime in, he's the oil master 'round these parts. Thanks for posting! Will follow.

[jr1415us]

I just added 450 ml of Liqui Moly MoS2 to a fresh oil change of 5W-40 (also Liqui Moly). I want to see if their claims of improved MPG are true. Too soon to tell right now.
[IMG][/IMG]

[SprintBlueWorld]

My last oil change I went from Mobil 00-40 to Liquimoly 5-40 with a Lucas oil additive. So far so good. Its tempting to to flush it....

[SlickFix]

What a sad state of affairs that Audi has involved us in. I have no idea whether kevinye's experiment is going to help the rest of us, but it seems that the trend around here is to try various low-cost remedies that have somehow miraculously reduced or eliminated chain rattle.

After performing the oil valve and jets job, and getting minimal results, I'm leaning toward saving my kopeks for replacing the timing components instead of trying the various other "miracle cures". This is not intended as a slap against kevinye or anyone else whose rattle has been reduced by these remedies.

This morning, my cold start up rattle was a solid three seconds. I'm seriously just waiting for the misfires or other engine noise that indicates that my probably-cracked chain guide has broken in half. Shouldn't be too long in coming.

What I wouldn't give to be able to see the condition of my chain guides without pulling the motor.

[kevinye77137]

My last oil change I went from Mobil 00-40 to Liquimoly 5-40 with a Lucas oil additive. So far so good. Its tempting to to flush it....

I was tempted to try Lucas oil Additive as well but i heard stories about it having air bubbles in the oil. Mobil 0w-40 is too thin for me and its burning my oil at least a good 1 qt per 600 miles. my car has 89k on it and ive been trying to find a way to slow it down :[

[kevinye77137]

What a sad state of affairs that Audi has involved us in. I have no idea whether kevinye's experiment is going to help the rest of us, but it seems that the trend around here is to try various low-cost remedies that have somehow miraculously reduced or eliminated chain rattle.

After performing the oil valve and jets job, and getting minimal results, I'm leaning toward saving my kopeks for replacing the timing components instead of trying the various other "miracle cures". This is not intended as a slap against kevinye or anyone else whose rattle has been reduced by these remedies.

This morning, my cold start up rattle was a solid three seconds. I'm seriously just waiting for the misfires or other engine noise that indicates that my probably-cracked chain guide has broken in half. Shouldn't be too long in coming.

What I wouldn't give to be able to see the condition of my chain guides without pulling the motor.

I know its horrifying! It seems like I bought the wrong car because it created bunch of problems for me to worry about in the near future and I only had the car for 4 months ago with 85k! But a good trade off is a sexy dam car and a fun beast to drive! I wish your motor the best of luck.. how many miles do you have in your car?

[SpoolBus]

Whole different approach, but I've used the "snake oils" for consumption and here's my experience..

Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer with audi change - went from 1 qt every 1,5K to 1 every 2ish

BG 109 engine flush and refill with Lubro 5w-40 then BG MOA and some BG 44 in gas tank, 0 change in oil level in 400 ish miles (fingers crossed)!

The engine flush really pulled some crap out of the engine absolutely no doubt, oil was a black water that smelled.

No chain rattle BTW

[Guitarmageddon]

Funny thing is a lot of people will do these snake oils or miracle fixes such as check valves, then go right out and commit other heresies to the engine such as redlining it before its warmed up, and letting it idle for long periods. I have also done some research and its not 100% accurate to say that 0w40 will burn more/faster than 5w40. For example, mobil 1 0w40 is actually thicker in operational temps than lubro moly 5w40 anyways. That may just be people noticing a placebo. Thats my 2 cents. Im about to do my first of 3 oil changes with Mobil 1 0w40 (switched from LM, still noticing no consumption...) and I will send it in for analysis. Seems like a good oil. Im running the first OCI at 4,000mi.

[Mr.Wrong]

Another bandaid just like check valves.
I'd be more concerned at the rapid oil burning rate(1qt/600mi) than cold start up rattle, if I were in your shoes. Have you performed compression & leakdown tests?

[noob5]

I'd be more concerned at the rapid oil burning rate(1qt/600mi) than cold start up rattle, if I were in your shoes. Have you performed compression & leakdown tests?

x2!!!
1 qt/600 miles is more than simply burning oil.

[Guitarmageddon]

x2!!!
1 qt/600 miles is more than simply burning oil.

About how much, if you were giving in terms of the dipstick reading, would that look like? Halfway through the center portion of the dipstick? Or you get a low oil reading every 600 miles? Does anyone know the quarts that are remaining once low oil light hits?

[TarlCabot]

About how much, if you were giving in terms of the dipstick reading, would that look like? Halfway through the center portion of the dipstick? Or you get a low oil reading every 600 miles? Does anyone know the quarts that are remaining once low oil light hits?

bottom of the dipstick or dry is at least 2 quarts/liters... oil light comes on at 2 quarts/liters low

I think it is actually liters so 2 quarts = aprox 1.9 liters

i used Lucas and it slowed down my oil consumption somewhat... but it really matters on haw hard you push the engine as to how much oil... my problem was pcv and bad valve guides/seals and was equivalent to SpoolBus's about 2 quarts per 3.5 to 4k miles

[kevinye77137]

Another bandaid just like check valves.
I'd be more concerned at the rapid oil burning rate(1qt/600mi) than cold start up rattle, if I were in your shoes. Have you performed compression & leakdown tests?

I have not performed a compression or leakdown test but im pretty sure my piston ring seals are worn or I have cylinder scoring... I changed my pcv and still no change in oil consumption. I am a broke college student and right now I have no money to do anything so my only way is to use anything I can find :[ that struggle life

[Lor2435]

FWIW, I find 0w40 to burn faster but my engine is quieter on startup. 5w40 burns less and makes more noise.

Next oil change will be 50/50 0w40 and 5w40.

[kevinye77137]

About how much, if you were giving in terms of the dipstick reading, would that look like? Halfway through the center portion of the dipstick? Or you get a low oil reading every 600 miles? Does anyone know the quarts that are remaining once low oil light hits?

I check my oil level every weekend. I fill it up full to the legal amount and i find the dipstick reading almost half gone. so basically 1/2 qt on 300 miles. I drive city 90% with hills and stop and go traffic.

[kevinye77137]

Mobil 1 0w-40

Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40ºC 75
@ 100ºC 13.5
Viscosity Index 185
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85

Redline 5w-40
ACEA Service Class A3 B3/B4
API Service Class SN/SM/SL/CF
Viscosity Grade SAE 5W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 97
Viscosity Index 174
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C 58@-30
Pour Point, °C -45
Pour Point, °F -49
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 6
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741 4.4

switching to redline next change

[Spike00513]

What about KanoLabs Kreen. Or Marvel Mystery Oil. I've heard good things about both. And mixed reviews about CeraTec (more on the bad side)

[SlickFix]

Marvel Mystery Oil works great at keeping my 1977 sailboat's Universal Atomic 4 engine in great shape. Don't know how it would help the 4.2L V8 in my S4, however.

[Lor2435]

What about KanoLabs Kreen. Or Marvel Mystery Oil. I've heard good things about both. And mixed reviews about CeraTec (more on the bad side)

I did one run of kreen before my last oil change and it cleaned A LOT out. I'm putting more in today for my oil change this weekend. Tough to say if it helped after one use but it was nice to see the gunk it pulled from the engine.

I have an extra can if anyone is interested. Local pickup only (Manhattan) as I don't want to deal with shipping this stuff. PM me if interested.