A4 2010 2.0T - Ticking - Mystified... w/video

[MarkWilson]

Hi there,

I had posted this up in the 2.0T Tech section, but wasn't getting much in response, so I figured I would give it a shot over here to see if anyone else has any ideas... a couple minor updates to the below post.

REPOST

I recently picked up a 2010 Audi A4 Premium Quattro (45,000 KM) and there is a pretty significant 'ticking' sound coming from the engine bay.
When I took it into the dealership, they indicated that it was coming from the Cam Shaft area, but had no idea what the problem was.... wanted to charge me $1500 just to take it apart and see if they could find the problem, not even including fixing the problem. So (not being impressed with their answer) I brought it to a friend's dealership/shop, where they work on a number of VWs and some Audis. The guy there seemed completely sure that the problem was the HPFP 'lifter' or 'rod' within it? However, when I asked the dealership about it, they didn't seem to think that would cause the noise.
Anyhow, I did some searching around here and on other sites and seemed to find a number of 'similar' sounding problems, but they ranged from the HPFP, lifters, cam, to the chain tensioner, valves, injectors... A lot of people have codes popping up or problems with the actual car's performance... whereas my car runs great, no issues and no CELs.

This has now been over a month, the car still runs fine, but ticks.... the shops still aren't sure what it is and it's getting to the point where they're just going to end up taking things apart to see if they can find what's going on. Before I do that, and work up a good bill, I wanted to give it another shot to see if anyone has any ideas or two cents I could pass on to the shop.
I had the shop change the oil a couple months back when it first started ticking (they said it was pretty dirty, but the car sat for awhile I believe), they used Synthetic Liqui Moly 5W30, new filter 06J-115-403-J - if any of that may have an impact.

Below is a video of me starting the car (cold) and recording the sound coming from the engine bay.
If I let it run for a few minutes, the engine warms up and it ticks less aggressively (slower). The ticking increases with throttle... the more gas I give... the more ticking.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsjw...ature=youtu.be

I get that some ticking is normal, but this is clearly not. Drives me crazy... an AUDI isn't supposed to sound like a time bomb

Thanks in advance for any insight!

[Toiffel]

that's nuts, my wife got into my car last night and said, what is that ticking sound ??!! I've got use to it, but my car starting ticking right after the dealer replaced my starter motor, and I didn't want to deal with them anymore and since the car runs fine I never took it back.....

[DarkSabre]

Mines also ticking recently. Sounds just like yours (saw your post and video in 2.0T Engine Tech section)
No cels, nada
Cant do anything about right now since its at the body shop getting fixed after a hit n run till next week Friday.
Will be making an appointment with Audi when i get the car back.

[kt883]

Ticking is normal if related to hpfp and lifters. MK5 MK6 and B7 B8 all do it with FSI engines.

Unless were talking about the ticking while coasting problem which is causes by wastegate rod chatter.

[MarkWilson]

Mine ticks alllllll the time. Directly related with the throttle. Anytime I give it gas the tick speed increases.
Normal ticks I get, but this is excessive, it ticks loud! Even the dealership said it wasn't normal...

@DarkSabre - let me know what Audi says after you bring yours in. If I figure it out before then... I will let you know.

[MarkWilson]

Local shop says the problem is the lifters and recommends replacing all 16 (instead of just the 1-2 that are problematic) alongside the 8 exhaust rocker arms. They said the rockers are usually recommended to be done at the same time.
Approximate cost (I don't have the sheet in front of me):
$250 lifters (16)
$550 rocker arms (8)
$1000 labor (app 10-11 hrs)

Lame. Stealership doesn't think that's the problem. Annoying.

[MarkWilson]

They used the stethoscope and found it was on the exhaust side.... not the HPFP... sounds more like coming from the front... did an oil flush (again) ... don't think they actually opened it up yet, but that's their verdict.
I'm just worried they take it all apart and replace the lifters, etc. and then it still ticks. But if they open 'er up, maybe they'll have a better idea where it's all coming from.

[MarkWilson]

Video didn't seem to be working anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsjwG_ABgy4

[r6_11b8]

does the ticking get louder under slow acceleration?? my ticking isnt bad while parked but once i get going a little it starts sounding like metal on metal rattle...super annoying!

[Alex1188]

Thats a pretty loud tick lol sounds more like a smacking sound, i would say the shop is probably right and a lifter is bad

[MarkWilson]

Ticking doesn't get louder under slow acceleration, but it does speed up the more gas I give it.
Doesn't sound like metal on metal, no.

Yes, it sounds like something is flapping or slapping back and forth. Most likely going to do the lifter work, since I've run out of ideas at this point...

[Jerry1847]

Doesn't sound normal at all, like Alex said a smacking sound.

Don't disagree that it could be a sticky lifter but at 45k km? The hpfp cam was a big change in our engine vs the prior 2.0t. Maybe a carbon cleaning would get the gunk out and maybe be a short term fix for the lifter? Not sure if it works that way, just a thought.

Also, could it be an intake issue? Like a bad flapper? Probably not the issue but I donk know the symptoms of that fault.

[DoctorB8]

My nieghtbor had similar noise on his mk6.. ended up being a bad PCV

[MarkWilson]

Yeah, other shops weren't too sure about the lifter verdict, but these guys supposedly work on a lot of VW and Audi engines. I told them that as long as they're sure that's the problem and that it will be fixed, to go ahead with the service. I do not have the 'know how' to do it myself.
I don't THINK it mimics the bad PCV symptoms I've read about when I checked it (they also checked).
Also, I haven't a clue on the intake flapper... would this not cause a CEL? Part of the problem is that I'm not getting anything code wise to help tell me what might be the issue.

My only other thought lifter wise was to run seafoam through the oil to see if it's a sticky lifter or something...

[Warren S]

They used the stethoscope and found it was on the exhaust side.... not the HPFP... sounds more like coming from the front... did an oil flush (again) ... don't think they actually opened it up yet, but that's their verdict.
I'm just worried they take it all apart and replace the lifters, etc. and then it still ticks. But if they open 'er up, maybe they'll have a better idea where it's all coming from.

My impression is that it sounds like an exhaust leak only on one exhaust port, or maybe even a loose spark plug...something related to only one out of the four cylinders. I say that because the rhythm of the knock or pop (not tick) sound is 1/4th from the rest of the normal background noise. Since you mentioned that they used the stethoscope and found it was on the exhaust side, could it be a blown exhaust gasket?

[MarkWilson]

My impression is that it sounds like an exhaust leak only on one exhaust port, or maybe even a loose spark plug...something related to only one out of the four cylinders. I say that because the rhythm of the knock or pop (not tick) sound is 1/4th from the rest of the normal background noise. Since you mentioned that they used the stethoscope and found it was on the exhaust side, could it be a blown exhaust gasket?

No idea. I've mentioned all of these things for them to consider. They're opening 'er up on Monday and going to take a look. When it's resolved, I will post the details.

Thanks for all of the suggestions BTW. Much appreciated.

[zokissima]

I"d have checked the gaskets etc first. man, if you're going to thrown down 1k into labour, I would NEED to know what they're doing myself, but that's just me. Just a good understanding. $100 into a thorough inspection, say even $150, while you also ensure you have visibility to them checking etc, is a sound step prior to shelling out another 1700...just saying...
For that job I'd really want some written certainty from them.

[TCHUN003]

Any idea on what the issue was?

[MarkWilson]

One of the lifters collapsed and caused the ticking from it failing, but also gauged into the camshaft and shaved down the metal - so the bill grew lol.
Ended up having to replace the camshaft, lifters and rocker arms (while I was already in there doing lifters). No metal came out in the oil flushes/changes, so I'm a bit worried there may still be pieces kicking around in there, or that the pieces may have worn down the inside of the engine as they passed through from the shaved part? I'm not that savvy on this type of detail, so I don't know what to think. The mechanic advised me it might be best to sell and pickup something new, just in case something goes wrong down the road.
Thoughts?

Pics attached of the cam when they opened 'er up.




https://www.flickr.com/photos/130609551@N05/