Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Help passing inspection. Rare problem

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    Hello all,
    I have a 2003 Audi a4 1.8T Quattro. I have brought it to an Audi dealership and two other independent dealerships to fix this problem and no luck. It seems no one can diagnose it, but I still am unable to pass inspection. I have a "Not ready" Catalytic converter monitor which is causing me to fail. Both o2 sensors were replaced (front one on 9/21/2014 and the other about a year ago) and its reading that the cat is working properly. No check engine codes have been thrown, the car runs 100%, just the monitor will not ready. Have driven over 500 miles and tried to force ready the monitor through VAG-Tech and no luck. Is it possible that it could need a new catalytic converter when no codes are being thrown? If I knew where this monitor was located maybe its possible to replace because it's faulty? Could it be the ECU even though nothing else seems to be having a problem? It's stumping me and many mechanics and is apparently a rare problem. I have looked all over the internet and seems no one has had a problem like this. Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings imnuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 12 2009
    AZ Member #
    46297
    My Garage
    '21 F-150 Powerboost Lariat & '14 Acura RDX
    Location
    Dirty Jerz

    I thought you could pass as long as it was only one monitor that was not set? Not that it fixes the problem, but I haven't heard of any state requiring ALL monitors to be passed.

    Sent from my Moto X

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings Toolaa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03 2013
    AZ Member #
    120196
    My Garage
    2004 A4 Quattro 1.8T
    Location
    Ellicott City, MD

    Not sure about NJ but in MD all modules have to pass in order to pass the test. If any modules report NOT READY they will postpone your test up to 30 days.

    In MD if you fail the test but spend some amount of money to fix the problem you can be granted some sort of waiver. I'm not sure if you can get a waiver for NOT READY status.

    Have you asked them if they can give you a Dyno tailpipe test. I know they still do this at some testing stations in Maryland.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Senior Member Two Rings 00passat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 31 2012
    AZ Member #
    97835
    My Garage
    2005 Gmc sierra 2500hd 6.6 dirtymax
    Location
    Lancaster,ca

    You could try this to help force the monitors to run. I wold clear the codes even if there are none to force the computer to restart running the monitors.


    Readiness Code, Generating

    Test requirements:
    - Fuses for engine electronics OK
    - Ground (GND) connections at engine and transmission OK
    - Battery voltage at least 12.5 V
    - Exhaust system free of leaks.
    - Vehicles with automatic transmission: Selector lever in position "P" or "N".
    - Electrical consumers switched off (radiator fan must NOT run during test).
    - A/C switched off.
    - No DTCs in DTC memory; check DTC memory, see "Mode 3: Check DTC memory". See: Computers and Control Systems > Scan Tool Testing and Procedures > Diagnostic Mode 3: Check DTC Memory
    - Throttle valve angle 12.0 to 16.0 %, see "Mode 1: Check measuring values"; "PID 17: Throttle valve position (absolute)". See: Computers and Control Systems > Scan Tool Testing and Procedures > Diagnostic Mode 1: Check Measured Values

    Let vehicle cool off with the ignition switched off until the following conditions are met:
    - Intake air temperature 10 to 50 degrees C, see "Mode 1: Check measuring values"; "PID 15: Intake air temperature". See: Computers and Control Systems > Scan Tool Testing and Procedures > Diagnostic Mode 1: Check Measured Values
    - Coolant temperature approximately Intake Air Temperature (10 to 50 degrees C), see "Mode 1: Check measuring values"; "PID 05: Coolant temperature". See: Computers and Control Systems > Scan Tool Testing and Procedures > Diagnostic Mode 1: Check Measured Values

    Work procedure


    CAUTION: To reduce the risk of accident during road tests, always observe safety precautions.


    - Connect diagnostic tester. See: Computers and Control Systems > Reading and Clearing Diagnostic Trouble Codes > Diagnostic Tester, Connecting
    - Start engine and let run at idle for at least 15 minutes.
    - Perform a 15 minute road test in the highest gear or in the highest driving mode on a level driving surface.

    The following operating conditions must be met during this road test:
    - Engine speed 1800 to 2200 RPM, see "Mode 1: Check measuring values"; "PID 12: Engine rotations per minute". See: Computers and Control Systems > Scan Tool Testing and Procedures > Diagnostic Mode 1: Check Measured Values
    - Vehicle speed constant 90 km/h, see "Mode 1: Check measuring values "; "PID 13: Vehicle speed". See: Computers and Control Systems > Scan Tool Testing and Procedures > Diagnostic Mode 1: Check Measured Values

    - Read readiness code. See: Computers and Control Systems > Monitors, Trips, Drive Cycles and Readiness Codes > Read Readiness Code
    2014 S4 Dsg B&O , Sports Diff , Audi Side Assist, Carbon fiber Trim, Valentine One Hardwired ,Ecs tuning silicone inlet,Supercharger badges, 183mm fluidampr, epl dp , aem water meth, jhm test pipes, jhm high flow catted downpipes.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 26 2005
    AZ Member #
    7741
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    If it is not already clear, the "monitor" is a function of the ECU OBD II emissions calibration. There are several monitors implemented in the software programming of the ECU, of the emissions system components and performance. The several monitors must have run and evaluated the emissions equipment and performance in order for a monitor to be set as "Ready'. The monitors can only evaluate specific emissions system performance during specified operating conditions, if the specified operating conditions are not experienced while driving the car, the monitor in question can not run, therefore the associated Readiness cannot be set as passed or failed, the monitor must have run to obtain results. This is not a physical separate component. However, if a specific monitor does not run even when the operating conditions required are performed, it is likely there is a glitch in the ECU either a software problem or an electronic fault in the ECU. There is no OBD II diagnostics provided for the emissions monitors or the discrete electronic parts inside the ECU.

    The description of the catalyst monitor is described below:

    Ref: Bosch Motronic ME 7, ME 7.1, ME 7.1.1, ME 7.5 Strategy.

    There are two diagnostic functions, which are used for monitoring of the catalyst efficiency. Both are based on measure of the Oxygen within the catalyst determined by at least two Oxygen sensors. Each of the functions can be correlated between Oxygen / Hydrocarbon and Oxygen/ Oxides of Nitrogen.

    .01.01.00 Passive measurement of amplitude ratio

    .01.01.01 General description

    The method compares the signal amplitudes obtained from the downstream sensor to the modelled signal amplitudes. The modelled signal amplitudes are derived from a borderline catalyst. The data for borderline catalysts are taken from measurement results on real life deteriorated catalysts. In case the measured amplitudes exceed those of the model, the catalyst is considered defective. This information is evaluated within one single engine load and speed range (detection over full range of engine load versus speed).
    According to the described operating principle the following main parts can be distinguished:
    - Computation of the amplitude of the downstream oxygen sensor:
    The amplitude of the signal oscillations of oxygen sensor downstream catalyst is calculated. Extracting the oscillating signal component, computing the absolute value and averaging over time accomplish this.
    - Modelling of a borderline catalyst and of the signal amplitudes of the downstream oxygen sensor:
    The model is simulating the oxygen storage capability of a borderline catalyst. The signal of the downstream oxygen sensor is simulated in the catalyst model based on real time engine operating data (e.g. A/F ratio and engine load). The amplitude of the modelled signal oscillations is calculated.
    - Signal and fault evaluation
    The signal amplitudes of the downstream oxygen sensor are compared with the model for a given time. In case of the signal amplitudes of the downstream sensor exceed the modelled amplitudes, the oxygen storage capability of the catalyst falls short of the borderline catalyst model.
    - Check of monitoring conditions
    It is necessary to check the driving conditions for exceptions where no regular Lambda control is possible, e.g. fuel cut-off. During these exceptions, and for a certain time afterwards, the computation of the amplitude values and the post processing is halted. Thus, a distortion of the monitoring information is avoided.

    .01.01.02 Monitoring Structure

    The catalyst temperature (model) activates the catalyst monitoring function if the catalyst temperature is above a predetermined value.

    .01.02.00 Active measurement of OSC

    General description
    The catalyst monitor is based on the determination of oxygen storage capability (OSC). The correlation between conversion efficiency and the OSC has been investigated on catalysts with various characteristics specifically concerning stages of aging correlated to exhaust emissions (HC/NOx). Therefore, the catalyst is diagnosed by comparing its storage capability against the storage capability of a borderline catalyst.
    The oxygen storage capability (OSC) can be determined by one of the following two methods:
    1. Oxygen reduction after fuel-cut (Quick pass of the monitor)
    Oxygen is stored in the catalyst during fuel-cut conditions happening while driving the vehicle. After fuel-cut, the catalyst is operated with a rich air-fuel ratio (A/F) and the amount of removed oxygen is determined. If this passive test indicates an OSC value highly above the borderline catalyst, the catalyst is diagnosed without an error. This monitoring path can only generate a “pass” result.
    2. Determination of Oxygen storage (active test)
    For purposes of monitoring, the ECM cycles the A/F ratio by commanding a rich and a lean fuel mixture as follows.
    • First, ECM commands a rich A/F ratio until a minimum of oxygen has been removed (cumulated rich gas > threshold).
    • Then, the catalyst is operated with a lean A/F ratio commanded by ECM and the Oxygen Storage Capability is calculated from the oxygen mass stored in the catalyst as follows:
    OSC = ∫ air mass flow * lean mixture (λ-1) * dt
    • The catalyst is operated in this mode until the oxygen stored in the catalyst exceeds a calibrated limit or the downstream oxygen sensor indicates that the catalyst is completely saturated with oxygen.
    • The catalyst is then diagnosed by comparing its oxygen storage capability to the calibrated threshold of a borderline catalyst.

    .01.02.02 Monitoring Structure
    According to the operating principle described above the following main parts of the monitor can be distinguished:
    • Monitoring the amount of removed oxygen after fuel cut off
    • Check of monitoring conditions for active test
    • Lambda request (interface to lambda controller)
    • Mixture enrichment in order to remove any stored oxygen
    • Measurement of oxygen storage capacity (OSC) by lean A/F ratio operation
    • Processing
    • Fault detection

    Processing:
    After the measurement of the OSC, the OSC-value is normalized to the OSC-value of the borderline catalyst, which is taken from a map, depending on exhaust gas mass flow and catalyst temperature. The final diagnostic result is calculated by averaging several, normalized OSC-values and compared to the threshold. The measurement of OSC can be carried out consecutive or stepwise.

    For a catalyst system with 3 Oxygen-Sensors this measuring procedure can be applied to different portions. The different alternatives are shown in the table below. first λ-sensor front- catalyst main- catalyst second λ-sensor
    Table 1: Necessary conditions to check the different catalyst volume
    Secondary parameters
    Front-catalyst
    Main-catalyst
    Catalyst-system
    • First λ-sensor is active
    • Second λ-sensor is active
    • Modelled exhaust gas temp. in range
    Quick pass
    • First λ-sensor is active
    • Second λ-sensor is active
    • Third λ-sensor is active
    • Modelled exhaust gas temp. In range
    Quick pass
    • First λ-sensor is active
    • Second λ-sensor is active
    • Third λ-sensor is active
    • Modelled exhaust gas temp. In range
    {Quick pass
    Quick pass}
    => Quick pass
    • First λ-sensor is active
    • Second λ-sensor is active
    • Modelled front exhaust gas temp. In range
    • Modelled main exhaust gas temp. In range
    • Exhaust- gas mass flow in range
    • Exhaust- gas mass dynamic in range
    Measurement of OSC- calculation
    • First λ-sensor is active
    • Second λ-sensor is active
    • Third λ-sensor is active
    • Modelled front exhaust gas temp. In range
    • Modelled main exhaust gas temp. In range
    • Exhaust- gas mass flow in range
    • Exhaust- gas mass dynamic in range
    Measurement of OSC- calculation
    • First λ-sensor is active
    • Third λ-sensor is active
    • Modelled front exhaust gas temp. In range
    • Modelled main exhaust gas temp. In range
    • Exhaust- gas mass flow in range
    • Exhaust- gas mass dynamic in range

    Measurement of OSC- calculation

    If the secondary parameters for the different catalyst portions are met at the same time, the diagnostic functions can run simultaneously.
    According to table 1 the following result combinations are described in table 2.
    Table 2: Results, which can be obtained after the diagnosis of the different catalyst volumes
    Front catalyst
    Main catalyst
    Or
    Catalyst system
    Result
    Quick pass
    Quick pass
    Both = pass
    Quick pass
    Measurement of OSC- calculation < threshold
    front catalyst = pass
    main catalyst = Fail
    Quick pass
    Measurement of OSC- calculation > threshold
    Both = pass
    Measurement of OSC- calculation < threshold
    Quick pass
    front catalyst = Fail
    main catalyst = passe
    Measurement of OSC- calculation > threshold
    Quick pass
    Both = pass
    Measurement of OSC- calculation < threshold
    Measurement of OSC- calculation < threshold
    Both = fail
    Measurement of OSC- calculation > threshold
    Measurement of OSC- calculation > threshold
    Both = pass
    Measurement of OSC- calculation > threshold
    Measurement of OSC- calculation < threshold
    front catalyst = pass
    main catalyst = fail
    Measurement of OSC- calculation < threshold
    Measurement of OSC- calculation > threshold
    front catalyst = fail
    main catalyst = pass

    Edited for readability.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 09-21-2014 at 10:18 PM.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  6. #6
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    I talked to them at length and the tailpipe test is not going to happen (It seems they just never allow, very strict). Also they seem to not be able to pass you if this specific monitor is not ready. I read that one monitor can be "not ready" to pass in NJ, but it seems they still don't allow it. the explanation I got was that they have no control over the program they use. If it says not ready, the program fails you and they can't do anything about it. Anyway, I will try out what you all said. The only thing is, an Audi dealership couldn't even force ready the monitor (Via the VAG-COM device, or whatever they may use). So I'm not sure if that means the ECU is bad, or a component in the car. Both o2 sensors are relatively new so where is this "monitor" that watches the cat located? Audi shot down that it was the ECU that was bad because they said the car would be having other problems, not just a single monitor not ready. Can it be possible that the ECU is just screwing up on one small part of its readings?

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 26 2005
    AZ Member #
    7741
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by CGrin View Post
    I talked to them at length and the tailpipe test is not going to happen (It seems they just never allow, very strict). Also they seem to not be able to pass you if this specific monitor is not ready. I read that one monitor can be "not ready" to pass in NJ, but it seems they still don't allow it. the explanation I got was that they have no control over the program they use. If it says not ready, the program fails you and they can't do anything about it. Anyway, I will try out what you all said. The only thing is, an Audi dealership couldn't even force ready the monitor (Via the VAG-COM device, or whatever they may use). So I'm not sure if that means the ECU is bad, or a component in the car. Both o2 sensors are relatively new so where is this "monitor" that watches the cat located? Audi shot down that it was the ECU that was bad because they said the car would be having other problems, not just a single monitor not ready. Can it be possible that the ECU is just screwing up on one small part of its readings?
    The monitor is implemented in the ECU programming. That is why if the monitor won't run or can't be forced to run, then the only possible reason for this is a faulty ECU program or hardware. You can try having the dealership reprogram the ECU software with a later calibration, maybe that will resolve the problem if it is a software glitch. If it is a hardware problem internal to the ECU you will need a replacement ECU. PM me if you need to replace the ECU. The Audi Dealer has no basis for saying that the ECU is not faulty, since there are no other problems occurring. If the monitor will not run, or cannot be forced to run, then the only possible reason is because the ECU is faulty. Before replacing the ECU, have the ECU flash reprogrammed with a newer version calibration software. The dealer can do this and has the reflash software and tools to do it. If the flash reprogram does not fix the monitor problem, then the ECU hardware is faulty and will need to be replaced.

    The problem is specifically with regards to the monitor function, it has nothing to do with the monitored emissions hardware, ie, the catalyst. As explained in the ME 7 System Strategy, either the monitor runs and sets as Ready, or it runs and Readyness fails, and sets as Not Ready, if this was the case, the monitored component, the catalyst, is faulty, or the monitor fails to run because the required operation conditions have not occurred, or the monitor is functionally defective. Since the monitor can't be forced to run, then that only leaves the monitor itself is functionally faulty. Either reflash program the ECU with a later version Calibration software, or if that does not fix the monitor, replace the ECU.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 09-22-2014 at 04:08 PM.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings Gooner1886's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 20 2009
    AZ Member #
    45271
    Location
    Indiana

    Diagnosticator, audizine must pay you to post up your logic on their forum to keep things moving and the forum active... I'm actually 51% serious on that statement.
    B6 A4 1.8T Quattro Unitronic Frankenturbo stage 2+



    AKA: MitchFalk10

  9. #9
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    The monitor is implemented in the ECU programming. That is why if the monitor won't run or can't be forced to run, then the only possible reason for this is a faulty ECU program or hardware. You can try having the dealership reprogram the ECU software with a later calibration, maybe that will resolve the problem if it is a software glitch. If it is a hardware problem internal to the ECU you will need a replacement ECU. PM me if you need to replace the ECU. The Audi Dealer has no basis for saying that the ECU is not faulty, since there are no other problems occurring. If the monitor will not run, or cannot be forced to run, then the only possible reason is because the ECU is faulty. Before replacing the ECU, have the ECU flash reprogrammed with a newer version calibration software. The dealer can do this and has the reflash software and tools to do it. If the flash reprogram does not fix the monitor problem, then the ECU hardware is faulty and will need to be replaced.

    The problem is specifically with regards to the monitor function, it has nothing to do with the monitored emissions hardware, ie, the catalyst. As explained in the ME 7 System Strategy, either the monitor runs and sets as Ready, or it runs and Readyness fails, and sets as Not Ready, if this was the case, the monitored component, the catalyst, is faulty, or the monitor fails to run because the required operation conditions have not occurred, or the monitor is functionally defective. Since the monitor can't be forced to run, then that only leaves the monitor itself is functionally faulty. Either reflash program the ECU with a later version Calibration software, or if that does not fix the monitor, replace the ECU.
    Reprogramming the ECU sounds like a pretty good idea. It seems like a large possibility that doing that could solve the problem. Only thing is Audi just wants me to replace the catalytic converter ($1800 dollar job, so I am trying to avoid) thinking thats the fix, which I am almost positive its not, being that it can't read the cat yet since it hasn't got past the monitor. Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to know the components that are involved in setting the CAT monitor to ready. What steps are taken (and in what order) and what engine components are used to determine the monitor as "ready". If the sequence is known, then where it fails would be a clue. The ECU may also not be the issue if it fails somewhere along the line of testing. If the monitor cannot be forced to "ready" it may be that a component involved in this is not functioning correctly, resulting in an inability to force the ready state. While the ECU is not out of the question, knowing what the monitor inputs are important. The solution might be a component that is not "ill" enough to throw a code, but dysfunctional enough the prevent the monitor from setting. Perhaps Mode $06 diagnosis can be helpful, but I am not well versed in that. In any case, thanks Diagnosticator, you have been very helpful so far.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Spike00513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 05 2013
    AZ Member #
    110766
    Location
    CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gooner1886 View Post
    Diagnosticator, audizine must pay you to post up your logic on their forum to keep things moving and the forum active... I'm actually 51% serious on that statement.
    x2

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings blownb6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2012
    AZ Member #
    91456
    Location
    Ontario

    TLDR

    but the ecu might have been messed around with all ready and the readiness needs to be set manually,
    for example i coded out my SAI and it will never be ready until i run the readiness test via vagcom. something along those lines,
    search how to set readiness with vagcom and see if it works, if not talk to a tuner see what they can do

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings blitz2190's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 31 2014
    AZ Member #
    269656
    My Garage
    2004 A4 1.8T Quattro, 2.7T swap Stage 3 APR 6 speed
    Location
    NH

    Random question, do you know if the ecu was ever modified? I only ask as if there was ever something coded out in some instances it can be marked as not ready to the inspection computer, and also if the station are running state inspection computers there is almost nothing they can do as it self test everything then immediately contacts the state, nothing the mechanic can do about it, at lest in NH

  13. #13
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by blitz2190 View Post
    Random question, do you know if the ecu was ever modified? I only ask as if there was ever something coded out in some instances it can be marked as not ready to the inspection computer, and also if the station are running state inspection computers there is almost nothing they can do as it self test everything then immediately contacts the state, nothing the mechanic can do about it, at lest in NH
    I checked where the ECU was and nothing was tampered with. The tamper proof screws holding the ECU shut were not notched or damage whatsoever, and I don't think there is a way for someone to put new tamperproof screws in.They were in perfect condition. I did look at this early on to see if it was tampered with, but threw that idea out after seeing it wasn't tampered with. Also, Blownb6, VAG-COM software was used on the car with no luck in forcing readiness.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings blownb6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2012
    AZ Member #
    91456
    Location
    Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by blitz2190 View Post
    Random question, do you know if the ecu was ever modified? I only ask as if there was ever something coded out in some instances it can be marked as not ready to the inspection computer, and also if the station are running state inspection computers there is almost nothing they can do as it self test everything then immediately contacts the state, nothing the mechanic can do about it, at lest in NH
    http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php search and read

  15. #15
    Senior Member Three Rings blownb6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2012
    AZ Member #
    91456
    Location
    Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by CGrin View Post
    I checked where the ECU was and nothing was tampered with. The tamper proof screws holding the ECU shut were not notched or damage whatsoever, and I don't think there is a way for someone to put new tamperproof screws in.They were in perfect condition. I did look at this early on to see if it was tampered with, but threw that idea out after seeing it wasn't tampered with. Also, Blownb6, VAG-COM software was used on the car with no luck in forcing readiness.
    could be bad code, the ecu does NOT need to be opened to be flashed

    find out what ecu u have last digits 518 xx go to nefmoto download the loader and a factory bin, flash your ecu with the blue ebay cable and give it a shot

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings imnuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 12 2009
    AZ Member #
    46297
    My Garage
    '21 F-150 Powerboost Lariat & '14 Acura RDX
    Location
    Dirty Jerz

    One can also buy new security screws for the ECU cover if they wanted too. They have to sell them, otherwise, how would you ever put a replacement ECU in from the dealer?

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings blitz2190's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 31 2014
    AZ Member #
    269656
    My Garage
    2004 A4 1.8T Quattro, 2.7T swap Stage 3 APR 6 speed
    Location
    NH

    Quote Originally Posted by blownb6 View Post
    I know all about that site and if you read most of the post on there say that vagcom will report pass and the state reports not supported unless you happened to find one post on page 9 of one thread that vaguely touched on how to fix readiness and most if not all are geared towards the 2.7t and little is known about the 1.8t I've found one map that contained most of the definitions but only for one software revision. So if someone flashed the ecu it may cause the not ready problem. Most of the 1.8 stuff on there is just original bins
    Last edited by blitz2190; 09-23-2014 at 04:39 AM.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 26 2005
    AZ Member #
    7741
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    All of the monitor functionality is implemented within the ECU programming software. The catalyst monitor will only run if the operating preconditions are occurring while driving the car. Forcing the monitor to set readiness, requires the car be driven at a certain speed for a certain time period, using VCDS to command the monitor. Since the monitor has not been able to be forced to run, that implies there is a fault in the ECU either the software programming, or the ECU hardware. The best chance of fixing this is by flash reprogramming the ECU calibration. If the monitor is not running, and readiness cannot be set because the monitor does not run, there is no way that can be the fault of the catalytic converter. Ask the Audi dealer that wants to replace the cat if you get it free if that doesn't fix the monitor failure to run and set readiness. There is a fundamental difference between a monitor that cannot run and therefore readiness cannot be set, and a faulty cat that won't pass the monitor test for correct catalyst function, therefore readiness cannot be set. In the second case there would be a DTC specifically for a faulty cat, not a catalyst monitor fails to set readiness fault.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 09-23-2014 at 05:17 AM.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  19. #19
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    All of the monitor functionality is implemented within the ECU programming software. The catalyst monitor will only run if the operating preconditions are occurring while driving the car. Forcing the monitor to set readiness, requires the car be driven at a certain speed for a certain time period, using VCDS to command the monitor. Since the monitor has not been able to be forced to run, that implies there is a fault in the ECU either the software programming, or the ECU hardware. The best chance of fixing this is by flash reprogramming the ECU calibration. If the monitor is not running, and readiness cannot be set because the monitor does not run, there is no way that can be the fault of the catalytic converter. Ask the Audi dealer that wants to replace the cat if you get it free if that doesn't fix the monitor failure to run and set readiness. There is a fundamental difference between a monitor that cannot run and therefore readiness cannot be set, and a faulty cat that won't pass the monitor test for correct catalyst function, therefore readiness cannot be set. In the second case there would be a DTC specifically for a faulty cat, not a catalyst monitor fails to set readiness fault.
    I did ask them if the cat replacement doesn't fix the problem, will I have to keep paying to replace parts. They got silent after that, meaning no. Flashing programming in the ECU seems like a good start, and hopefully can fix the problem. Ill try to give it a try this weekend. Im guessing they would charge an hour work time for a job like this though...If it fixes the problem though, it worth it.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Three Rings blownb6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2012
    AZ Member #
    91456
    Location
    Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by diagnosticator View Post
    All of the monitor functionality is implemented within the ECU programming software. The catalyst monitor will only run if the operating preconditions are occurring while driving the car. Forcing the monitor to set readiness, requires the car be driven at a certain speed for a certain time period, using VCDS to command the monitor. Since the monitor has not been able to be forced to run, that implies there is a fault in the ECU either the software programming, or the ECU hardware. The best chance of fixing this is by flash reprogramming the ECU calibration. If the monitor is not running, and readiness cannot be set because the monitor does not run, there is no way that can be the fault of the catalytic converter. Ask the Audi dealer that wants to replace the cat if you get it free if that doesn't fix the monitor failure to run and set readiness. There is a fundamental difference between a monitor that cannot run and therefore readiness cannot be set, and a faulty cat that won't pass the monitor test for correct catalyst function, therefore readiness cannot be set. In the second case there would be a DTC specifically for a faulty cat, not a catalyst monitor fails to set readiness fault.
    truth!

  21. #21
    Senior Member Three Rings blownb6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 08 2012
    AZ Member #
    91456
    Location
    Ontario

    Quote Originally Posted by CGrin View Post
    I did ask them if the cat replacement doesn't fix the problem, will I have to keep paying to replace parts. They got silent after that, meaning no. Flashing programming in the ECU seems like a good start, and hopefully can fix the problem. Ill try to give it a try this weekend. Im guessing they would charge an hour work time for a job like this though...If it fixes the problem though, it worth it.
    honestly I don't like to serve people on their plate, but I am willing to help you out. Find the ecu number and I will show you to the right file and loader to use.

  22. #22
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by blownb6 View Post
    honestly I don't like to serve people on their plate, but I am willing to help you out. Find the ecu number and I will show you to the right file and loader to use.
    Thank you but I am very inexperienced with anything to do with the ECU. On the computer end of cars I do not have much knowledge of. If anything, I'm going to leave it to Audi or some other mechanic to deal with this. I wouldn't even know where to start, but it does seem like this is the highest chance of fixing the problem so I will get it done.

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings CyberPMG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 23 2004
    AZ Member #
    806
    My Garage
    2004 A4 1.8T Ultrasport 6MQ
    Location
    Stow, OH

    If the issue is ECU related, there are a few options:

    1 - Find a used ECU (make sure same year and engine - transmission helps too), swap out the ECU and get the immobilizer recoded (has to be done at a dealer)
    2 - If the ECU is stock, look into a software tune (Stage 1) from one of the many well known performance shops (APR, Revo, Unitronic, etc.)
    3 - Go to an Audi dealer to reflash the ECU (probably most expensive option).

    Question, is the catalytic converter still the original one? Has it ever been replaced? There is a chance it could still be bad given the ages and miles you may have on it.
    USP CLUB MEMBER #34

    2004 A4 1.8T USP - GT2871R Eliminator - Motoza program - Over 375k miles!
    2015 S5 - Sepang Blue - 6spd w/ Sport Diff - stock(ish)

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings SJorge3442's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 27 2013
    AZ Member #
    121842
    Location
    Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberPMG View Post
    If the issue is ECU related, there are a few options:

    1 - Find a used ECU (make sure same year and engine - transmission helps too), swap out the ECU and get the immobilizer recoded (has to be done at a dealer)
    2 - If the ECU is stock, look into a software tune (Stage 1) from one of the many well known performance shops (APR, Revo, Unitronic, etc.)
    3 - Go to an Audi dealer to reflash the ECU (probably most expensive option).

    Question, is the catalytic converter still the original one? Has it ever been replaced? There is a chance it could still be bad given the ages and miles you may have on it.
    Im leaning towards his issue being cat related. OP, just get your ECU flashed to Stage 1 and this will let you pass inspection 100%. It codes out the monitors that check emissions and make the testing equipment believe there is nothing wrong with the emissions, even if your cat is bad.
    2017 A4 6 Speed - Sport Plus - Mythos Black
    2018 Q5 - Prestige - Manhattan Grey

  25. #25
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberPMG View Post
    If the issue is ECU related, there are a few options:

    1 - Find a used ECU (make sure same year and engine - transmission helps too), swap out the ECU and get the immobilizer recoded (has to be done at a dealer)
    2 - If the ECU is stock, look into a software tune (Stage 1) from one of the many well known performance shops (APR, Revo, Unitronic, etc.)
    3 - Go to an Audi dealer to reflash the ECU (probably most expensive option).

    Question, is the catalytic converter still the original one? Has it ever been replaced? There is a chance it could still be bad given the ages and miles you may have on it.
    I have all the paperwork from the original owner and it doesn't say the CAT was replaced, so I believe it was the original. The only thing is, its not throwing a code that the CAT is bad and both o2 sensors are working, causing me to believe that the CAT is still fine and its an ECU problem. I think ref lashing the ECU is the cheaper guess at the fix so I might start with that. If that doesn't work, then I'll dish out the money for a new CAT.

  26. #26
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by SJorge3442 View Post
    Im leaning towards his issue being cat related. OP, just get your ECU flashed to Stage 1 and this will let you pass inspection 100%. It codes out the monitors that check emissions and make the testing equipment believe there is nothing wrong with the emissions, even if your cat is bad.

    I would like to do that, but do not want to pay the money for it right now. The cheapest one I found was $500 I believe.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings SJorge3442's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 27 2013
    AZ Member #
    121842
    Location
    Philly

    Quote Originally Posted by CGrin View Post
    I would like to do that, but do not want to pay the money for it right now. The cheapest one I found was $500 I believe.
    Just a heads up. A new cat (downpipe) will run you ~$300 (http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalo...18t-p-729.html) and then a new secondary o2 sensor is another $125. That IS the solution to your problem without a tune. That will make your car road ready again. With the tune, you wont need to buy a new o2 sensor, as the secondary sensor is coded out. You also wont need a new cat. $500 vs. $425 is sounding a lot better now, isn't it? I know you said you dont want to pay for it, but what I posted is probably the only option you have. You could try to space the o2 sensor away from the exhaust gases using an o2 sensor spacer, but that only works sometimes.
    2017 A4 6 Speed - Sport Plus - Mythos Black
    2018 Q5 - Prestige - Manhattan Grey

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings blitz2190's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 31 2014
    AZ Member #
    269656
    My Garage
    2004 A4 1.8T Quattro, 2.7T swap Stage 3 APR 6 speed
    Location
    NH

    Quote Originally Posted by SJorge3442 View Post
    Just a heads up. A new cat (downpipe) will run you ~$300 (http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalo...18t-p-729.html) and then a new secondary o2 sensor is another $125. That IS the solution to your problem without a tune. That will make your car road ready again. With the tune, you wont need to buy a new o2 sensor, as the secondary sensor is coded out. You also wont need a new cat. $500 vs. $425 is sounding a lot better now, isn't it? I know you said you dont want to pay for it, but what I posted is probably the only option you have. You could try to space the o2 sensor away from the exhaust gases using an o2 sensor spacer, but that only works sometimes.
    its most likely what diagnosticator said and even if he had to replace the cat it doesn't mean the o2 is bad as he already replaced them, the o2 spacer will only work on a bad cat (inefficiency code) not a "not ready" as in readiness test hasn't completed yet.
    Last edited by blitz2190; 09-24-2014 at 10:29 AM.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 27 2012
    AZ Member #
    90765
    My Garage
    1980 Harley Sportster
    Location
    Ocean city, nj

    Be careful with most tunes saying they will write out codes so you can pass inspection in New Jersey. Most just write it out, so the moniters are not ready. I'm guessing this is your problem and trying to go that route will not fix it. The only tuner, I know of and use, that will actually set moniters to ready is motoza. That's who I use, learned about him while living in Colorado. His stage 1 is cheap, 350 I believe and he sends you a cable to run his software from a windows laptop. I'm sure he can rewrite your ecu and fix your problem. Send him and email.

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 30 2008
    AZ Member #
    30427
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania

    How much have you spent on parts to fix this already? There is a specific dollar amount - in NJ I believe it is $450 - that you spend toward making the car pass. If you have receipts to prove that you spent that much, you can apply for (and ostensibly be granted) an emissions "cost waiver" for the biennial emissions inspection.

    The only monies that count toward the $450 are parts you install yourself or parts/labor charges of a State-registered Emission Repair Facility (ERF).
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear
    2006 Passion Red Volvo V50 T5 AWD 6MT
    2000 Satin Silver Passat 1.8T FWD Wagon, Slippy Tiptronic, 15" Hubcaps
    2001 Aluminum Silver Metallic A4 Avant 1.8TQM (winter sled)

  31. #31
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by walky_talky20 View Post
    How much have you spent on parts to fix this already? There is a specific dollar amount - in NJ I believe it is $450 - that you spend toward making the car pass. If you have receipts to prove that you spent that much, you can apply for (and ostensibly be granted) an emissions "cost waiver" for the biennial emissions inspection.

    The only monies that count toward the $450 are parts you install yourself or parts/labor charges of a State-registered Emission Repair Facility (ERF).
    Yea I have not asked them about this, but I talked to the people who failed me for a while and they never said anything about this. I only replaced an o2 sensor so far so not much money has gone into it (Other than paying people to diagnose the problem). Im trying not to just replace anything and everything to fix the problem, Im trying to pinpoint the problem first. I might call them and ask about that though. Thanks.

    I think the problems been narrowed down to the CAT or the ECU and I'm more leaning towards doing something with the ECU so within the next week or two I'm going to start with this.

  32. #32
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Sep 21 2014
    AZ Member #
    284104
    Location
    Somerset NJ

    Just to wrap all this up, the problem has been fixed. It was an ECU problem. Dave from Motoza guessed it was an older APR tune that did this. He retuned my ECU (I had to send it in) and now the monitor is ready and I passed inspection. Thanks everyone for helping me solve this.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2025 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.