Lubro Moly vs. Motul

[LJ6]

Which do you prefer?

I'm looking to do an oil change on my b7 and I've had good experiences with Motul but I'm curious if anyones tried both an favors one over the other.

I have occasional bad chain rattle and wanna get the product that'll make my engine the happiest.

Thanks!

[Guitarmageddon]

I have used both exclusively for the entirety of this cars life and have recently made the switch to Mobil 1 0w40. Purchasing oil for an oil change costs around 80 bucks for motul or LM oil, but I can buy mobil 1 readily at my local walmart for $40 bucks or so. An oil change usually costs around 50, wheres a DIY with lubro moly comes in around $100, and taking it to a shop will cost around $150 or so.

Its chemical stats are quite comprable to the other 5w40's, and I will be sending it in for an oil analysis at 3,000 miles, then another at 5,000 miles to make sure Im not doing any harm. I was apprehensive about 0w40 for a while, but Mobil 1 is a good option to consider.

[EHesh14]

I did use Mobil 1 0W40 a few times and it burned up like crazy. Every thousand miles I had to add a quart. As where I used Moly 10w40 I was adding a quart every 2k miles which is perfectly normal. Just fyi

[dparm]

Who cares what brand it is? Every manufacturer produces good, mediocre, and bad products, Lubro-Moly and Motul included. If you're going to buy an oil purely based on whose name is on the bottle, you might as well just use the "eeny meeny miny moe" method.

If you want an oil that makes your engine "happiest", pick something, run it for 6-7k miles, and get it analyzed to see how it performed with your particular engine and driving habits. Anything else is just guessing.

[blai76]

Who cares what brand it is? Every manufacturer produces good, mediocre, and bad products, Lubro-Moly and Motul included. If you're going to buy an oil purely based on whose name is on the bottle, you might as well just use the "eeny meeny miny moe" method.

If you want an oil that makes your engine "happiest", pick something, run it for 6-7k miles, and get it analyzed to see how it performed with your particular engine and driving habits. Anything else is just guessing.

This seems reasonable.

[dparm]

This seems reasonable.

I think it applies to most things in life. Be objective whenever possible. We're not talking about coordinating your shirt and tie, which is almost entirely subjective.

[Mr.Wrong]

I did use Mobil 1 0W40 a few times and it burned up like crazy. Every thousand miles I had to add a quart. As where I used Moly 10w40 I was adding a quart every 2k miles which is perfectly normal. Just fyi

Burning a quart every thousand miles is not normal by any means, neither is every two thousand miles. I'd investigate into where the issue lies.

The most I've burned with 0W40 Mobil 1 and Lubro Moly was half a quart in five thousand miles and that was mostly attributed to heavy leaking valve covers gaskets. I've been running M1 for quite some time now and love it.

[dparm]

I did use Mobil 1 0W40 a few times and it burned up like crazy. Every thousand miles I had to add a quart. As where I used Moly 10w40 I was adding a quart every 2k miles which is perfectly normal. Just fyi

You really should not be using 10w40.

[blai76]

Burning a quart every thousand miles is not normal by any means, neither is every two thousand miles. I'd investigate into where the issue lies.

The most I've burned with 0W40 Mobil 1 and Lubro Moly was half a quart in five thousand miles and that was mostly attributed to heavy leaking valve covers gaskets. I've been running M1 for quite some time now and love it.

Seems like everybody's motor is slightly different, from what I've seen anyways. What is unhealthy for one 4.2L can be fine for another. I've read of folks who burned a quart every 3K, and are just fine, whereas others (myself included) do not burn oil at all, in the least.

[WinterRunner]

M1 euro 0w40 /end thread

[ABT B7]

50200 is the spec you need for the oil regardless of which brand

[Jake@JHM]

I use 4.25L of Motul and 4.25L of Lubro in my S4 oil changes.


Just kidding.. they are both great oils.

[audi49]

I've tried several oils in my S4 over the past 4 years... Motul, Castrol, Mobil 1, Redline. I tracked oil usage among these. The differences were very small but Motul burned slightly less than the others. So I'm sticking with Motul going forward. (I avg about 2000 miles/quart).

[SpoolBus]

I burn 1qt per 1,500 miles, I'm about to do the BG 109 then Lubro 5w-40 with BG MOA. I'll report back if it changes consumption.

[blai76]

I use 4.25L of Motul and 4.25L of Lubro in my S4 oil changes.


Just kidding.. they are both great oils.

Funny guy, you. You, funny guy.

[Junaid]

I am using lubro right now and it's burning a quart every 720 miles. Where as with Total oil I was burning a quart every 1300 miles. I have a few oil leaks will need to be addressed. It should help with the oil loss.

[Guitarmageddon]

I burn 1qt per 1,500 miles, I'm about to do the BG 109 then Lubro 5w-40 with BG MOA. I'll report back if it changes consumption.

What was bg109 again? Oil additives?

[SpoolBus]

What was bg109 again? Oil additives?

They make MOA (which is a Motor Oil Additive) but the BG 109 is the engine cleaner, actually works, to remove build up on rings and valves. You only run it 15 min or so and drain, the oil becomes dark and smelly (you can visibly see the crap it removes)

[XLR8 Craig]

We use Motul and LiquiMoly almost exclusively here at the shop.

As mentioned there are a few different tiers of both. We tend to use more of the LiquiMoly as an "entry level" high quality synthetic and Motul "Specific" as a slight step-up (the cost difference for the 5L jugs is only about $5). I have noticed that the LiquiMoly tends to quiet down noisy engines ever so slightly, but that may be because the customers that specify LiquiMoly might go a little longer between changes? I'm not sure as I have not tracked or plotted/correlated this info.

I used to love Mobil1 but their quality seems to have gone steadily downhill over the past 10-12 years. You can't expect gigantic corporations like Wal-Mart to buy and sell a product at extremely low rates, keep the rate low despite increases in cost of raw materials and manufacturing... and not have quality suffer at least marginally. It's the same reason you can buy the same model John Deere lawn tractor at Home Depot and an independent John Deere dealer and the one from Home Depot will cost less but will have stripped transmission gears in a few years while the more expensive Dealer purchased one will last pretty much forever. Big corporations say "I want to buy this many at this price, do what you have to to provide the product".

Summary: Both are good oils, try both and see which makes your engine the quietest and consumes the least oil between changes.

Side note: Always run a high quality OEM filter. Mann Mahle, and Hengst are the best.

[SpoolBus]

We use Motul and LiquiMoly almost exclusively here at the shop.

As mentioned there are a few different tiers of both. We tend to use more of the LiquiMoly as an "entry level" high quality synthetic and Motul "Specific" as a slight step-up (the cost difference for the 5L jugs is only about $5). I have noticed that the LiquiMoly tends to quiet down noisy engines ever so slightly, but that may be because the customers that specify LiquiMoly might go a little longer between changes? I'm not sure as I have not tracked or plotted/correlated this info.

I used to love Mobil1 but their quality seems to have gone steadily downhill over the past 10-12 years. You can't expect gigantic corporations like Wal-Mart to buy and sell a product at extremely low rates, keep the rate low despite increases in cost of raw materials and manufacturing... and not have quality suffer at least marginally. It's the same reason you can buy the same model John Deere lawn tractor at Home Depot and an independent John Deere dealer and the one from Home Depot will cost less but will have stripped transmission gears in a few years while the more expensive Dealer purchased one will last pretty much forever. Big corporations say "I want to buy this many at this price, do what you have to to provide the product".

Summary: Both are good oils, try both and see which makes your engine the quietest and consumes the least oil between changes.

Side note: Always run a high quality OEM filter. Mann Mahle, and Hengst are the best.

Does make sense, what are your thoughts on Fram filters? Have used them since my 1st car and never had an issue, are they any good on this platform?

[XLR8 Craig]

Does make sense, what are your thoughts on Fram filters? Have used them since my 1st car and never had an issue, are they any good on this platform?

Fram is one of the worst filters on the market, even their "extra-guard" and "tough-guard" versions are very bad. They use the least amount of filter media compared to just about every other manufacturer. Their construction is primarily cardboard and glue rather than plastic/rubber. If you do some searching on bobistheoilguy.com you can find quite a few horror stories.

I personally only have 1 bad experience with fram but is is bad enough that I wouldn't even use one of their filters on my lawnmower. It was about 8 years ago when I worked at an equipment rental place, one of our long term rentals wiped an engine because the place that rented the equipment did their own oil change, used a fram filter that essentially didn't have the bypass valve passage cut in it, the filter clogged (remember Fram's have on average 1/3 to 1/2 less filter media than their competitors) in a fairly short period of time like they all do, didn't bypass, restricted oil flow and spun a bearing. This was on a low RPM and fairly low load nissan 4-cylinder industrial engine with big tolerances compared to a performance automotive engine.

It just isn't worth it to run a Fram when many places carry quality Mann or Mahle filters. If you MUST run a "parts store" filter WIX (and NAPA, same thing) are good quality and Purolator is pretty good too.

[SpoolBus]

Damn, and now the Fram filter on my table is....in the trash...good advice and real world experience, thanks!

[WinterRunner]

Just run oem filters, paper filters the best.

Excelerate, do you have information regarding M1 and going downhill? Or is that just speculation? Have they announced a formula change, or something of the like recently?

I only ask Bc I worked in purchasing for many years, and higher volume is the #1 reason for lower costs. So if Walmart buys more product, it's cheaper for Mobil to run larger batches, and they can provide a better price to Walmart.

It sounds like its a combination of a lot more things really. Thanks for the insight!


I despise Walmart btw....

[Quadfreak]

Excelerate, do you have information regarding M1 and going downhill? Or is that just speculation? Have they announced a formula change, or something of the like recently?

Curious as well. That seems like a fairly big bomb to drop about something that 75% of the people on here are running.

Paging Dparm! We need some clarification here.

[blai76]

Curious as well. That seems like a fairly big bomb to drop about something that 75% of the people on here are running.

Paging Dparm! We need some clarification here.

Love to hear what Dparm has to say about this ;) Rebuke! Rebuke! I've ran M1 0w-40 on my B5 A4 2.8L for the life of the car, and was very happy with the performance. I've been running M1 0w-40, with occasional forays into Motul xcess 5w-40 when I had my detail shop also do my oil change on occasion, on my 08 S4 for three years (since I picked it up). Was going to make a switch to motul 8100 excess 5w-40 fulltime anyways, but would love to know if I've been putting a sub-par product into my S4 for three years.

[two2]

Motul beats all.. why? because my car burns less oil which makes it a better oil.

[jr1415us]

Regarding NAPA filters, they are in fact made by Hengst.

[98champ]

Curious as well. That seems like a fairly big bomb to drop about something that 75% of the people on here are running.

Paging Dparm! We need some clarification here.

+1 considering that I thought that was one of the top ways to go. Definitely need Dparm back in here with his crazy oil knowledge. I know there was talk about M1 going down hill a while ago and Dparm squashed that real quick but that thread was from a longgggg time ago if I remember correctly.

[pandapod]

Does anyone run Amsoil? I'm between that and Motul. Looking to get Amsoil from a local vendor but I don't know if I'll need full SAP's or mid-SAP's...if anyone could advise that'd be great

[SlickFix]

You can't expect gigantic corporations like Wal-Mart to buy and sell a product at extremely low rates, keep the rate low despite increases in cost of raw materials and manufacturing... and not have quality suffer at least marginally. It's the same reason you can buy the same model John Deere lawn tractor at Home Depot and an independent John Deere dealer and the one from Home Depot will cost less but will have stripped transmission gears in a few years while the more expensive Dealer purchased one will last pretty much forever. Big corporations say "I want to buy this many at this price, do what you have to to provide the product".

You could be right. But then again, you could be making this up because you're a small shop and you make up arguments like this to convince people that going to the independent dealer is the smarter choice. If you had some concrete proof that the gearbox on my John Deere snowblower purchased at Lowes is made from a different substance or strength than the gearbox of the same model purchased at an indy dealer....well, then you'd have a leg to stand on.

[blai76]

This seems to be more hearsay than anything else. Quick research indicates models sold at both JD and "box stores" like Lowes are indentical in every way. The confusion lies in the multiple different models available, and the quality levels inherent in the different pay scales.

http://gardentractortalk.com/forums/...aler-tractors/

Debunked

[blai76]

Identical, that is. Can't edit from phone

[Spike00513]

Just run oem filters, paper filters the best.

Why is paper the best? Many car makers, such as Mercedes, recommend using OEM fleece filters over paper filters, and allow for longer OCI's when using fleece. I think paper can break off and cause clogs, whereas fleece will not. Supposedly, there are other reasons, such as the following:

"In the field of air filtration, MANN+HUMMEL has widened the range of options available to vehicle manufacturers through offering innovative high performance air filters using new fleece technology. The fleece filter media MICROGRADE N supplied by the development partner and original equipment supplier to the international automotive industry achieves up to 50% higher dust capacity, compared with cellulose-based filters of the same size. The filter takes up 35% less space without any reduction in service life."

"Ludwigsburg, 12th November 2004 – As filtration technology has to meet increasingly stringent demands, more and more air filters now contain synthetic fibre filter media. This trend was outlined by R+D experts from MANN+HUMMEL at the Filtrex Trade Fair in Munich (26th - 27th October 2004). The automotive industry demands improved filtration efficiency, more compact design, higher dust capacity and longer service intervals. For this, fleece filters provide an ideal alternative to cellulose media."

".... The fleece filter media developed by MANN+HUMMEL is entirely made up of polyester fibres between 5 and 22 microns in diameter. It has a gradient structure, with the width of the fibres increasing towards the clean air side. This structure provides higher dust capacity, compared with conventional paper media. Dust particles are absorbed throughout the whole fleece (“deep bed filtration”); with paper filters, on the other hand, contaminants are mainly trapped on the flow side."

"MICROGRADE N has another important characteristic - it has much higher initial separation (ie: filtration performance in new condition) than cellulose media. In MANN+HUMMEL road trials, the filter elements with MICROGRADE N achieved up to 150% longer service life (service interval) than comparable cellulose media under practical conditions."

"MICROGRADE N maintains its superior filtration performance, even under humid conditions and in rain. With fleece - unlike paper filters - penetrating moisture only leads to a slight increase in pressure loss, and there is no deformation of the filter pleats. There is another advantage, too: no resin impregnation is required to stabilize the synthetic fibres, so the energy-consuming curing process is superfluous. The flame-retardant properties of the fleece filter media meet the DIN 53438 standard without further additives, as the basic material is polyester."

[blai76]

That's interesting. It's perhaps a function of the relative burn rates of our engines, and cost of filter. Is the oil going to contaminate quicker than the filter will, if theoretically you were doing nothing but making the filter last longer, as suggested above? Probably, then. At which point you'd change your oil, and change your filter along with it as a rule. Unless you are suggesting keeping the same filter on for more than a single oil change, in which case...




Paper aint gonna break off unless you have a faulty or poor quality filter. It is your job to inspect what you put into your car before you do so; that's all that can be said about that. The filter is not going to break apart and disintegrate under any normal use case, so long as you replace it within spec. Every car manufacturer will have different contracts with different vendors (such as for oil filters), and vendors will want to push whatever is in their interests to push. This does not always mean it's a good thing, though, and different car maker's drive trains have different tolerances on top of that. Mercedes != Audi != BMW

[XLR8 Craig]

I'm not saying Mobil 1 is a BAD oil, just that there are better options out there for not much more money. Say you do 2 oil changes a year and each one costs $20 more because you used a better oil. I personally would rather spend the $40/year.

Back around 2006 Mobil stopped using pure synthetic base stocks (PAO) in their Mobil 1 oils, which essentially downgraded them from a group IV (PAO) to Group III (hydrocracked dino oil). They originally were trying to sue Castrol for doing this with some of their oils while retaining "synthetic" wording in their products, they lost and essentially said "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and did the same with their oil.

I ran Mobil 1 in my B5 A4 1.8T the entire time I owned it, I also ran a gigantic WIX filter that is actually for a Volvo diesel but has all the same valve opening pressures etc. and never had an issue, but I now prefer to run a "better" oil even if it costs a bit more.

If you run Mobil 1 and are happy... continue to do so. I only switched because of the downgrade info I have read and because it isn't a " VW approved" oil.

[98champ]

I thought that M1 0W-40 is a vw approved oil. Here's a post from the resident oil expert from an older thread:

Why would you stay away from Mobil? They're a huge company that sells oils that are factory fill in cars like the Dodge Viper, Nissan GT-R, Mercedes AMG, Porsche, etc. Whoever told you that doesn't know what they're talking about. The following oils are all readily available at any auto parts store for $5/qt or less, and are VW 502/505 approved:

Mobil 1 0w40 (5 qt jugs are $23 at Wal-mart)
Castrol Edge 0w30
Castrol Edge 0w40
Castrol Edge 5w40
Valvoline SynPower 5w40


Alternatives are readily available at auto parts stores, but not VW approved and go on sale less often. They'd still work since they satisfy ACEA A3/B4:

Royal Purple 0w40
Royal Purple 5w40
Shell Rotella T6 5w40
Lubro-Moly Synthoil Energy 0w40
Lubro-Moly Synthoil Premium 5w40
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40


As for the filter, you can get it from NAPA or the dealer. Some auto parts stores can special order it, but in my experience NAPA always has it or can get it from the warehouse within 24 hours.

Then a link to everything I've used for oil and everything you'll need to know:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...approved+dparm



**Dparm, hope you don't mind me quoting you

[blai76]

I'm not saying Mobil 1 is a BAD oil, just that there are better options out there for not much more money. Say you do 2 oil changes a year and each one costs $20 more because you used a better oil. I personally would rather spend the $40/year.

Back around 2006 Mobil stopped using pure synthetic base stocks (PAO) in their Mobil 1 oils, which essentially downgraded them from a group IV (PAO) to Group III (hydrocracked dino oil). They originally were trying to sue Castrol for doing this with some of their oils while retaining "synthetic" wording in their products, they lost and essentially said "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and did the same with their oil.

I ran Mobil 1 in my B5 A4 1.8T the entire time I owned it, I also ran a gigantic WIX filter that is actually for a Volvo diesel but has all the same valve opening pressures etc. and never had an issue, but I now prefer to run a "better" oil even if it costs a bit more.

If you run Mobil 1 and are happy... continue to do so. I only switched because of the downgrade info I have read and because it isn't a " VW approved" oil.

There is some sense to this. I am even more glad to have already made the decision to go with Motul 8100 xcess, at this point.

Thank you for your input!

[Spike00513]

I also ran a gigantic WIX filter that is actually for a Volvo diesel but has all the same valve opening pressures etc. and never had an issue,

How did you figure out what Volvo diesel filter to use? I'm guessing you scrolled through an entire Mann+Hummel oil filter catalog to find what specifications you wanted, and it happened to be a Volvo diesel filter that met your requirements?

Why didn't Audi just do that?

There is the 950/4 which I believe is approved for the 1.8T, not sure if its bigger than the volvo filter you had. Did you do anything else, such as run a magnetic drain plug?
Mann 950/4:


Not sure:

[dparm]

I'm not saying Mobil 1 is a BAD oil, just that there are better options out there for not much more money. Say you do 2 oil changes a year and each one costs $20 more because you used a better oil. I personally would rather spend the $40/year.

Back around 2006 Mobil stopped using pure synthetic base stocks (PAO) in their Mobil 1 oils, which essentially downgraded them from a group IV (PAO) to Group III (hydrocracked dino oil). They originally were trying to sue Castrol for doing this with some of their oils while retaining "synthetic" wording in their products, they lost and essentially said "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and did the same with their oil.

I ran Mobil 1 in my B5 A4 1.8T the entire time I owned it, I also ran a gigantic WIX filter that is actually for a Volvo diesel but has all the same valve opening pressures etc. and never had an issue, but I now prefer to run a "better" oil even if it costs a bit more.

If you run Mobil 1 and are happy... continue to do so. I only switched because of the downgrade info I have read and because it isn't a " VW approved" oil.

Excelerate, please don't take this the wrong way, but you are misinformed on this subject.

Mobil 1 is a synthetic oil, plain and simple. Group III is a synthetic basestock, despite the smear-campaign everyone runs against it. Hydrocracking is used by pretty much every major oil blender in the world and it is a tried-and-true process to create excellent oils. Focusing too much on the basestock is very narrowminded -- you should be looking at the overall package. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that 3/4 of the VW 502/505 approved oils are hydrocracked. Even the overhyped Lubro-Moly and Motul 8100 oils are group III.

I won't get into the history lesson of Castrol vs. Mobil on the "synthetic labeling" fiasco, but in the end it comes back to my above point: if they can offer the performance of group IV and group V with a less expensive product, why wouldn't they do it?


Mobil's VISOM group III+ basestocks are some of the best in the world. It is a proprietary basestock they spent billions of R&D on:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1990677

Shell has similar offerings in the form of XHVI and GTL.

Mobil themselves said:

The Mobil 1 formulation strategy has always been based on selecting the best components available. We now have the very high quality Group III+ base stock, ‘Visom’ exclusively available to ExxonMobil. As we developed the Mobil 1 ESP technology we found that combining Visom with PAO could deliver a formulation of equivalent performance to an all PAO formulation.

In other words, their group III oil mixed with a tad of group IV could match the all-group IV formula!



And lastly, Mobil 1 0w40 is a VW 502/505 approved oil:
http://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/a...e-Bulletin.pdf

[dparm]

Also, as to the earlier points about filters, I'd bet that people who are bashing Fram have either (A) never used one, (B) never cut on open for themselves, or (C) bought a very cheap one and automatically assumed the company doesn't make anything BUT cheap ones. As I've said before, there's a whole spectrum of quality from every company. Yes, there are some cheap Frams. But there are also some very good ones that rival anything else out there.

When it comes to picking a filter, anything from the big OEM suppliers will be fine: Purolator-Mann, Hengst, and Mahle. You may see other companies like Wix, K&N, Beck-Arnley, Bosch, etc. with filters...most of those are just repackaged versions from the same factories. In many cases, they are the exact same filter with a different name stamped on it. Champion Labs is the largest oil filter producer in the world, and they even do private labeling.