Frankenturbo Exhaust Manifold - Any FT guys using the STOCK Exhaust Manifold?

[BlazinB5]

I've heard that it's a total bitch to install the Frankenturbo exhaust manifold due to the larger runners restricting access to the nuts for tightening. So I was wondering, is the FT manifold really necessary to use with the frankenturbo setup? I personally would rather avoid the trouble of installing if it's really that much of a pain, but if it's worth installing, I'll definitely do it. So for those of you that are running the Frankenturbo F21L, what do you think?

[Lysergik]

I've heard that it's a total bitch to install the Frankenturbo exhaust manifold due to the larger runners restricting access to the nuts for tightening. So I was wondering, is the FT manifold really necessary to use with the frankenturbo setup? I personally would rather avoid the trouble of installing if it's really that much of a pain, but if it's worth installing, I'll definitely do it. So for those of you that are running the Frankenturbo F21L, what do you think?

I used the FT manifold, but I didn't install it. The nuts are nearly impossible to access without some special socket or wrench, I am not sure how they were able to get it on.. But after about a year they are still tight, I used nickel alloy nuts with split type washers, not the oval shaped factory copper ones (dealer wanted $4 each plus $1 each for the washers!) and they are holding up great. You don't want to reuse your original nuts and washers.

And yes, it is worth installing.

[Knives1010]

I don't have an FT so take my statement lightly but I've read several times that you actually get a better spool with an OEM manifold, but I don't know what kind of ill affects are associated with that.

[texasboy21]

I don't have an FT so take my statement lightly but I've read several times that you actually get a better spool with an OEM manifold, but I don't know what kind of ill affects are associated with that.

Smaller runners = quicker spool but loss of top end flow.

[DiertyEuroSpec]

I don't have an FT so take my statement lightly but I've read several times that you actually get a better spool with an OEM manifold, but I don't know what kind of ill affects are associated with that.

I've always heard FT owners recommending going with the FT manifold, also I believe it is ceramic coated?? Could be wrong but that would reduce engine bay temps which would be a godsend! Just make sure you borrow a wrench or make your own creation as it is a VERY tight install.

[BlazinB5]

I used the FT manifold, but I didn't install it. The nuts are nearly impossible to access without some special socket or wrench, I am not sure how they were able to get it on.. But after about a year they are still tight, I used nickel alloy nuts with split type washers, not the oval shaped factory copper ones (dealer wanted $4 each plus $1 each for the washers!) and they are holding up great. You don't want to reuse your original nuts and washers.

And yes, it is worth installing.

Yea, I'm going to need locking nuts of some sort, whether they be copper or nickel alloy, and definitely no reusing of anything

I don't have an FT so take my statement lightly but I've read several times that you actually get a better spool with an OEM manifold, but I don't know what kind of ill affects are associated with that.

the main thing i'm after is the lower EGT's, especially with the ceramic coating that i'll have put on it. it just doesn't look that fun to install.

Smaller runners = quicker spool but loss of top end flow.

this

I've always heard FT owners recommending going with the FT manifold, also I believe it is ceramic coated?? Could be wrong but that would reduce engine bay temps which would be a godsend! Just make sure you borrow a wrench or make your own creation as it is a VERY tight install.

ceramic coating is an option, but yea i'll be going with that option for sure. the test pipe is also supposed to reduce engine bay temps too, so my car is going to be pretty happy soon. a guy from my facebook group (Audi B6 Owners Group) recommended using a swivel socket with medium extension, so that's going to be my first option for getting at those bolts in the tight area.

[Matt Devo]

even with 10mm copper nuts (which I recommend), you'll need a ground-down box end wrench with a 90° bend at the head to get at most of the nuts. A swivel-socket, even 1/4" drive, isn't going to get the job done. BTDT

[00passat]

I installed the frankenturbo manifold using the stock 12 or 13mm nuts and washers , No leaks 2 years later. If I recall correctly I used a 1/4 swivel socket and a wrench , took around 20-30mins to get it on and tighten it up.

[vjborelli]

I just installed my F21L and manifold on Sunday. I used a regular 12mm wrench. To make things a little quicker with tightening, I used my dremmel to grind down a little bit of each side of the wrench to clear the manifold for a bit more rotation with each pass. Wasn't overly hard, just takes a bit of patience.

[BlazinB5]

even with 10mm copper nuts (which I recommend), you'll need a ground-down box end wrench with a 90° bend at the head to get at most of the nuts. A swivel-socket, even 1/4" drive, isn't going to get the job done. BTDT

Damn, well it's not too hard to get make that 90 degree bend is it? It's interesting that frankenturbo wouldn't provide a solution for this.

I installed the frankenturbo manifold using the stock 12 or 13mm nuts and washers , No leaks 2 years later. If I recall correctly I used a 1/4 swivel socket and a wrench , took around 20-30mins to get it on and tighten it up.

It seems like it's hit and miss for some people. They must've done some minor changes to the manifold over time.

I just installed my F21L and manifold on Sunday. I used a regular 12mm wrench. To make things a little quicker with tightening, I used my dremmel to grind down a little bit of each side of the wrench to clear the manifold for a bit more rotation with each pass. Wasn't overly hard, just takes a bit of patience.

Awesome, thanks for the pic. Did you use the provided studs/bolts that came with the kit? I'm guessing that the only thing I need to order outside of the kit (hardware wise) is the copper locking nuts?

[vjborelli]

Awesome, thanks for the pic. Did you use the provided studs/bolts that came with the kit? I'm guessing that the only thing I need to order outside of the kit (hardware wise) is the copper locking nuts?

I used the 12mm copper nuts that ECS lists for $0.99 except for the four corner nuts that are 13mm copper nuts. I used the OEM washers from my stock manifold. One thing I will recommend, is to install, first as you are sliding the manifold onto the studs, the washer/nut on the manifold stud that sits right behind the rear turbo bolt mount (top row, third from the right IIRC). Otherwise you won't be able to get the nut onto the stud because of very low clearance.

As for the Turbo bolts, I'm not sure what comes with the kit. I bought this F21L from a friend that had it on the car for about 500 miles and totaled the car. My turbo is held in by the stuff I removed from his set. They are cryo treated studs with an unknown type of nut.

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[BlazinB5]

I used the 12mm copper nuts that ECS lists for $0.99 except for the four corner nuts that are 13mm copper nuts. I used the OEM washers from my stock manifold. One thing I will recommend, is to install, first as you are sliding the manifold onto the studs, the washer/nut on the manifold stud that sits right behind the rear turbo bolt mount (top row, third from the right IIRC). Otherwise you won't be able to get the nut onto the stud because of very low clearance.

As for the Turbo bolts, I'm not sure what comes with the kit. I bought this F21L from a friend that had it on the car for about 500 miles and totaled the car. My turbo is held in by the stuff I removed from his set. They are cryo treated studs with an unknown type of nut.

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Sweet, thanks for the heads up. Any little piece of advice will matter once I order up. I've been real busy with school, so I haven't had the time to pull the trigger, yet

[tomsgtr]

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...d=0CNcBEKYrMAQ

anyone tried this?

[diagnosticator]

I don't own a frankenturbo setup but I play one on TV.....:>/

The stock OE manifold will work better on the street. The downside is slightly reduced flow capacity on the top end. Unless you drive your car at 5000> RPM most of the time, the slightly reduced flow capacity at high RPMs is a non issue as practical matter. Alternatively, the BEX stock manifold flows a little better on the top end compared to the AMB stock OE manifold, without being a pain to install or remove.

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

I don't own a frankenturbo setup but I play one on TV.....:>/

The stock OE manifold will work better on the street. The downside is slightly reduced flow capacity on the top end.

Actually, the downsides are the dangerously high exhaust gas temperatures we saw in product development when testing on the stock manifold. The stock manifold is NOT appropriate for use at the power levels being run with our turbochargers. This is why we make our difficult-to-install exhaust manifold a mandatory part of the turbo kit.

It's also worth pointing out that we're aware of increasing competitors coming onto the market with low-priced "bare" hybrid turbos. On a price basis they're cheaper because they don't include a proper manifold -- or even an inlet pipe to fit their turbos. Well, none of those products takes into account the damaging effects of EGTs above your engines' rated temperatures. We do. That's why we have worked to develop a complete hardware solution, and have spent years since that time building tuning partnerships that will ensure a final product that is fast & fun, while reliable and safe.

So: PLEASE install the manifold you bought with your turbo. We wouldn't require it if we didn't believe so strongly about its purpose.

Anyone with questions is welcome to contact us.

Thx

[mec]

I've heard that it's a total bitch to install the Frankenturbo exhaust manifold due to the larger runners restricting access to the nuts for tightening. So I was wondering, is the FT manifold really necessary to use with the frankenturbo setup? I personally would rather avoid the trouble of installing if it's really that much of a pain, but if it's worth installing, I'll definitely do it. So for those of you that are running the Frankenturbo F21L, what do you think?

My suggestion you won't like. Get a quality turbo. I've installed a few b6 frankenturbo kits. The manifold is the worst thing I've ever seen. I've seen $60 ebay manifolds that look higher quality. Its a total PITA to get around the runners and tighten all the nuts. It can be done, but then again your turbo will probably blow within 10k miles if you are pushing it and you'll have to pull it off, so why not just get a good setup that will be on there for the lifetime of the car?

I don't have an FT so take my statement lightly but I've read several times that you actually get a better spool with an OEM manifold, but I don't know what kind of ill affects are associated with that.

Correct, you will get faster spool out of a manifold with less volume, but you've also got to take into consideration EGT's. Doug says they saw over the top EGT's, could have also been from fueling, honestly it doesn't look like the design on the manifold had much consideration, just an overinflation of the original manifold, similar to what they do with their compressor charts.

I've always heard FT owners recommending going with the FT manifold, also I believe it is ceramic coated?? Could be wrong but that would reduce engine bay temps which would be a godsend! Just make sure you borrow a wrench or make your own creation as it is a VERY tight install.

You can get it ceramic coated, pretty sure it comes bare.

[diagnosticator]

Actually, the downsides are the dangerously high exhaust gas temperatures we saw in product development when testing on the stock manifold. The stock manifold is NOT appropriate for use at the power levels being run with our turbochargers. This is why we make our difficult-to-install exhaust manifold a mandatory part of the turbo kit.

It's also worth pointing out that we're aware of increasing competitors coming onto the market with low-priced "bare" hybrid turbos. On a price basis they're cheaper because they don't include a proper manifold -- or even an inlet pipe to fit their turbos. Well, none of those products takes into account the damaging effects of EGTs above your engines' rated temperatures. We do. That's why we have worked to develop a complete hardware solution, and have spent years since that time building tuning partnerships that will ensure a final product that is fast & fun, while reliable and safe.

So: PLEASE install the manifold you bought with your turbo. We wouldn't require it if we didn't believe so strongly about its purpose.

Anyone with questions is welcome to contact us.

Thx

The excessive temps experienced in product development needs qualification. Specifically, what RPM and load point did the exhaust temps exceed the acceptable maximum with the OE manifold? Was that development done on a street mule or a test cell dyno? As you know, EGT depends on several variables that are interdependent, not in order of importance, like air mass flow rate, boost pressure/pressure ratio, ignition timing advance angle, Air/fuel ratio or Lambda, valve timing and lift, specific load, IATs and other factors. The OE manifold will provide a fatter torque curve on the lower end of the rev range most useful on the street, and the peak EGTs occurring are the result of the tune implemented with a certain exhaust manifold, will be different to the tuning parameters used with a larger exhaust manifold runner flow cross section/mass flow capacity. Of course, the tune needs to be appropriate for the hardware installed with the associated torque achievement target at the RPM load point desired. Regardless, the informative comments you posted provides important information and is helpful here.

[volkswagensRus]

Actually, the downsides are the dangerously high exhaust gas temperatures we saw in product development when testing on the stock manifold. The stock manifold is NOT appropriate for use at the power levels being run with our turbochargers. This is why we make our difficult-to-install exhaust manifold a mandatory part of the turbo kit.

It's also worth pointing out that we're aware of increasing competitors coming onto the market with low-priced "bare" hybrid turbos. On a price basis they're cheaper because they don't include a proper manifold -- or even an inlet pipe to fit their turbos. Well, none of those products takes into account the damaging effects of EGTs above your engines' rated temperatures. We do. That's why we have worked to develop a complete hardware solution, and have spent years since that time building tuning partnerships that will ensure a final product that is fast & fun, while reliable and safe.

So: PLEASE install the manifold you bought with your turbo. We wouldn't require it if we didn't believe so strongly about its purpose.

Anyone with questions is welcome to contact us.

Thx

So you say the stock exhaust manifold is not good for modded 1.8t's, but what about the stock exhaust? If I'm reading this properly then stock exhaust + good downpipe + good tubular exhaust manifold should be fine?

[DiertyEuroSpec]

Iam running my OE manifold becuase it makes install 10X easier while figureing out this oil leak that Ive had since install of the test F21l mixed flow. Ive went through all fittings etc now just waiting to gave something to run while it goes off to doug's tech for diagnosis

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[old guy]

I( have been running the F21L hybrid turbo kit for almost a year now. I'm totally satisfied with the kit. With the right tools I spent no more than an hour installing the FT exhaust manifold. At the same time I installed the kit I added a 034 high flow cat. In the past six months I replaced the OEM downpipe with a TT 2.5 downpipe. From the downpipe back I have a Borla that has been on for years.

Been a lot of fun

[Rus_ninja]

Was not too hard to install, do it right the first time.