"Cheap" performance upgrades for 2004 3.0?

[KeithSam]

I know this question is probably asked every minute but what is the most affordable MOD for my 2004 Cabriolet 3.0?
I was told a performance chip, but which one, and where to get it?
What would come next, exhaust upgrade? (which/where?)


Thanks!

[LINDW4LL]

There is basically no extra power to be had from the 3.0L. If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, you could do the JHM ECU Tune for $600, but really that will only help throttle response. Exhaust won't help. Intake won't help. 3.0 is a dog and there is no improving it.


If I were you, I'd put my money towards coilovers or lowering springs and an upgraded rear sway bar. Maybe some good tires.

[Joethar]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...IY-Swap-Guide/

This will be the route I go to improve the performance.

[KeithSam]

Thanks Hayden. Trust me, even better throttle response will be nice.

[KeithSam]

Thanks Joethar.

[Joethar]

No worries, I have looked into about every option for the 3.0 to include the supercharger and bang for the buck the 2.7 swap is going to be the most cost effective.

[imnuts]

There is basically no extra power to be had from the 3.0L. If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, you could do the JHM ECU Tune for $600, but really that will only help throttle response. Exhaust won't help. Intake won't help. 3.0 is a dog and there is no improving it..

This post has a lot of Fail in it. First, the JHM tune is only $500, though shipping will run you a little more. An exhaust will help, but only if you take out the cats in the downpipes, so you need something that goes from the headers back. Don't replace the intake, just modify it (search for Zingo Mod) and you'll get a little boost. You can improve the 3.0, and the JHM tune does more than just "improve throttle response". It doesn't do a lot, but it gives you a very linear power band to go with a linear throttle response. There is improvement, just not anything significant unless you do an engine swap.

[SJorge3442]

hmmm. performance improvements on the 3.0......swap a 2.7. Thats about all you got. Worry about the suspension over everything.

I just swapped in some Koni yellows yesterday and let me tell you. The car rides awesome. now I can wait for a new set of tires, which I should be getting this week. After staring at the rear sway bar this weekend, I really noticed how much it needs to be addressed. its a little guy compared to the front. After I get my tires, a rear sway bar will more than likely be my next upgrade.

[T0M3K]

You all miss the "simplest" mod that gets best bang for buck... SWAY BAR.
Makes night and day difference.
I have GIAC tune (before JHM even thought of 3.Slow) and make marginal difference according to my butt dyno. At this age, getting another tune and downpipes is just throwing money away. You can little performance increase (assuming you got cat-back exhaust already). At 177k miles, my car is in constant need of worn parts replacement, so maybe save up the $$$ and time for that

[SJorge3442]

You all miss the "simplest" mod that gets best bang for buck... SWAY BAR.
Makes night and day difference.
I have GIAC tune (before JHM even thought of 3.Slow) and make marginal difference according to my butt dyno. At this age, getting another tune and downpipes is just throwing money away. You can little performance increase (assuming you got cat-back exhaust already). At 177k miles, my car is in constant need of worn parts replacement, so maybe save up the $$$ and time for that

what sway bar setup are you running? I am interested in getting this addressed soon. Now with the Konis and new tires, Im gonna want to finally go out on some drives with her....Oh, btw. I beat you to the sway bar...

[05A$SE]

Dont waste your time modding the 3.0 - Swap to 2.7T if you want performance

If thats too expensive / out of your realm. Try good maintenance, Spark plugs, air Filter, Recalibrate TB, Fuel Filter.

Taking care of the car will make it run as well as it can for a 3.0. Tuning etc opens your wallet for no reason with this engine.

[thaifoodninja]

to add my 2 cents: I've done the zingo mod, make sure you replace the filter while you're at it, there is a drop in K&N that helps. I also replaced the spark plugs at the same time with NGK Iridiums, and all together it was a good refresh for the car.

Everyone is right though, there isn't much you can do.

The only other thing that I would add is to upgrade the rear sway bar with an RS4 sway bar or the 034 Motorsports rear sway (which I have and love) it really balances out the car (does a great job at getting rid of that understeering lurching into corners feeling). I'm not 100% if it fits the cabriolet though, you'll have to do some searching for that, but it should otherwise be an easy upgrade http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Links-Install

[SlickFix]

what sway bar setup are you running? I am interested in getting this addressed soon.

You want the 034 sway bar and adjustable end links. It's a beast, and will take a couple of months for you to wipe the grin off of your face after you take the first sweeping off ramp.

[Knives1010]

Totally off topic, I love your red vinyl on the black paint. Looks amazing even in the little picture.

[SJorge3442]

You want the 034 sway bar and adjustable end links. It's a beast, and will take a couple of months for you to wipe the grin off of your face after you take the first sweeping off ramp.

Thats how I felt today driving with my day old Koni's. I never considered upgrading the rear sway bar until I saw how puny it was yesterday. I just need to get my alignment done ASAP plus grab new tires and I will be heaven.

[KeithSam]

Thanks Knives1010 and you other guys!
A lot to think about.

[LINDW4LL]

the JHM tune does more than just "improve throttle response". It doesn't do a lot, but it gives you a very linear power band to go with a linear throttle response. There is improvement, just not anything significant unless you do an engine swap.

You admit it doesn't do anything sigmificamt. Not sure why my post was coined "full of fail". JHM tune does not magically change the power band. It's a 3L N/A V6, of course the power is going to be very linear. From what I've seen, there are two key things that the JHM tune does. One, much more sensitive throttle response. Two, it opens the throttle plate more per a given throttle position. So for example, at 50% throttle it actually opens the throttle body 75%. This makes it feel faster, but at WOT or under heavy throttle will be no different.

You all miss the "simplest" mod that gets best bang for buck... SWAY BAR.

See Post #2 in this thread.

[Spike00513]

I don't support the Zingo mod. I think I slightly lost MPG and performance from it, but who knows if my butt-dyno and what not is right.

The silencer acts as a helmholtz resonator, adding pressure to the intake air charge. When the intake valves close, this forces intake air back out through the intake piping, or at least puts pressure on it. To fight this "back-pressure", you have the helmholtz resonator, which also functions to quiet down the intake. With the Zingo mod, you get some "swoosh noise" because the silencer is removed, but IMO, that's the only "benefit" and not something I care for.

Turbocharged engines can easily achieve a volumetric efficiency over 100%, which is why for them, it doesn't matter if you have a silencer as much. For naturally aspirated engines, higher volumetric efficiency is achieved by using resonators integrated with the inlet manifold design.

I believe manufacturers/designers consider a lot of things when designing resonators/silencers, such as engine running frequency and resonator frequency, IM volume, resonator volume, RPM's, and so on. I doubt that we can so easily outsmart them and improve our car by simply slapping on a PVC cap. I even went a step further, by ruining my intake (have since replaced it) by sawing off the entire nipple that the PVC cap (Zingo mod) would go on, and filling it with epoxy. Then sanded smooth, and painted, to look like there was never a spot for a silencer in the first place.

Just my .02.

I believe there are electric, battery-driven superchargers that can give you something like 60 seconds of boost, equating to a gain of 50-100hp. You set them it to turn on at WOT. You don't get the constant, across the rev range power-increase of a supercharger, but there is more power somewhere in there if you want it.

The best performance mod to the 3.0L is to sell it and get something else.

[AudiA4Turbo22]

Set the car on fire, collect the insurance money, buy a 1.8T :D

Lol Just playing.

Do a custom Twin turbo setup, be BALLZY! Not cheap, but unique nonetheless.

[imnuts]

You admit it doesn't do anything sigmificamt. Not sure why my post was coined "full of fail". JHM tune does not magically change the power band. It's a 3L N/A V6, of course the power is going to be very linear. From what I've seen, there are two key things that the JHM tune does. One, much more sensitive throttle response. Two, it opens the throttle plate more per a given throttle position. So for example, at 50% throttle it actually opens the throttle body 75%. This makes it feel faster, but at WOT or under heavy throttle will be no different.

Full of fail. You got the price wrong, it's posted directly on their website. The tune does more than just change the throttle response, and from driving it, the power curve is changed significantly from stock. Granted, you have a 1.8T and act like you know everything about the 3.0, so who am I to tell you what the tune does. It's not like I have it or anything. Stock, the power band seemed to exist between ~3500-4500 RPMs, it would give you good acceleration here, and here only. It felt dead before and after that range. With the JHM tune, the car pulls evenly across the entire RPM range. It still has a better pulling area between 3-4000 RPMs, but not nearly as defined as it was on stock, and it doesn't fall on its face after it gets through that range. The throttle response is actually set linearly, so if you ask for 50%, you get 50%. Stock it wasn't linear from my understanding.

Am I saying that it does everything and you start shooting rainbows out the exhaust? No, but you can actually do something to get improved performance out of a 3.0 besides swapping in a 2.7T. Also, the 3.0 is faster than a 1.8T stock for stock, and even a tuned 1.8T is just keeping up with a 3.0 AFAIK. You have to go 1+ or better to beat a stock 3.0, and you don't get the reliability of the engine with it either. Swapping out the entire intake won't help, but a little change to the intake does help.

I don't support the Zingo mod. I think I slightly lost MPG and performance from it, but who knows if my butt-dyno and what not is right.

The silencer acts as a helmholtz resonator, adding pressure to the intake air charge. When the intake valves close, this forces intake air back out through the intake piping, or at least puts pressure on it. To fight this "back-pressure", you have the helmholtz resonator, which also functions to quiet down the intake. With the Zingo mod, you get some "swoosh noise" because the silencer is removed, but IMO, that's the only "benefit" and not something I care for.

Turbocharged engines can easily achieve a volumetric efficiency over 100%, which is why for them, it doesn't matter if you have a silencer as much. For naturally aspirated engines, higher volumetric efficiency is achieved by using resonators integrated with the inlet manifold design.

I believe manufacturers/designers consider a lot of things when designing resonators/silencers, such as engine running frequency and resonator frequency, IM volume, resonator volume, RPM's, and so on. I doubt that we can so easily outsmart them and improve our car by simply slapping on a PVC cap. I even went a step further, by ruining my intake (have since replaced it) by sawing off the entire nipple that the PVC cap (Zingo mod) would go on, and filling it with epoxy. Then sanded smooth, and painted, to look like there was never a spot for a silencer in the first place.

If I had to guess, the more important part of the mod is capping off the hole in the air box coming from the wheel well, not really capping the other ports. The SAI is closed off for the most part, and out of the path of air travel, so it wouldn't have much effect. The resonator port is angled in a way that it shouldn't have a significant effect on air flowing through the system either. I can't really do any testing though, as I don't want to redo my intake to test each change made for the mod individually. FWIW, I did just the wheel well patch and the resonator removal/patch, and there was a noticeable change in power delivery and smoothness, and a negligible change in fuel economy, if anything.

[KeithSam]

" Also, the 3.0 is faster than a 1.8T stock for stock, and even a tuned 1.8T is just keeping up with a 3.0 AFAIK. You have to go 1+ or better to beat a stock 3.0, and you don't get the reliability of the engine with it either. Swapping out the entire intake won't help, but a little change to the intake does help."

I was puzzled about this, the 3.0 has 220hp and the 1.8T has what 190? Of course the 1.8T will have more torque.
The JHM tune is not just plug and play, you would also need to mod your exhaust and other parts, no?

[Joethar]

You will not have to modify your exhaust for the tune but for the most gains you would have to modify your exhaust but why are not a requirement. I am looking at purchasing this tune after I replace the clutch in my car as the previous owner gutted the cats and when it rains, and only when it rains I get the CEL for the lovely below threshold on both banks. Also the money spent on the tune will be well worth it as it would be nice to have a smoother more linear power band not just 1000 to 1500 rpm of a power band.

[KeithSam]

Joethar, this? http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalo...-v6-p-791.html

I wish they mention how much torque/HP to expect, but better throttle response will be great.
"You will experience increased and improved throttle response, increases in low end torque, and increases top end power."

Still, looks like a great way to go.

[Lornnn]

" Also, the 3.0 is faster than a 1.8T stock for stock, and even a tuned 1.8T is just keeping up with a 3.0 AFAIK. You have to go 1+ or better to beat a stock 3.0, and you don't get the reliability of the engine with it either. Swapping out the entire intake won't help, but a little change to the intake does help."

I was puzzled about this, the 3.0 has 220hp and the 1.8T has what 190? Of course the 1.8T will have more torque.
The JHM tune is not just plug and play, you would also need to mod your exhaust and other parts, no?

1.8T is 170 HP stock.

[imnuts]

I was puzzled about this, the 3.0 has 220hp and the 1.8T has what 190? Of course the 1.8T will have more torque.
The JHM tune is not just plug and play, you would also need to mod your exhaust and other parts, no?

The 1.8T has less power and torque than the 3.0...

Also, the tune is standalone, but it will do better with supporting mods.

Sent from my Moto X

[KeithSam]

As upgraded exhaust, pipes and catback.....

Also, the tune is standalone, but it will do better with supporting mods.

Sent from my Moto X

[ionicswing]

As upgraded exhaust, pipes and catback.....

yes

[Joethar]

Joethar, this? http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalo...-v6-p-791.html

I wish they mention how much torque/HP to expect, but better throttle response will be great.
"You will experience increased and improved throttle response, increases in low end torque, and increases top end power."

Still, looks like a great way to go.

That is it. I am hoping to pull the trigger some time next month, with the mountains around here it will be nice to have a smoother power band. Not really worried about the power gains myself, just the overall delivery of the power for a few years until I pull the 3.0.

[KeithSam]

I think I will save my pennies for the ECU tune http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalo...-v6-p-791.html then exhaust, then TCU tranny tune.
I am not very knowledgeable or skilled so these are best for me....for now, lol.

Thanks again guys!
Great, great forum!

[Audi 4 Life]

^OP sent you a PM with some info