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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    New MAF sensor = WOW!!

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    So I'm approaching 200k miles and I still had the original OEM MAF sensor. Over the past year it had slowly starting to add fuel to where it was pretty consistent at +7 to +10%. I figured it was time to clean it so I did so last month. It brought the correction down to around +4 to +6%. I really wasn't concerned because it was typically at 3gps at idle and maxed out at 165-170gps. Sounded pretty healthy to me for a 1+ tune. But I figured what the hell....If can pick up a rebuilt OEM MAF sensor for $54 what's the risk?

    The MAF showed up today so I went ahead and threw it in. Started the car and let it idle. It was pretty rough for about a minute and then smoothed out. The STFT was really low. It bounce around at -15 to -20% and then slowly settled down to around ± 5%. I took a quick spin around the block and WHAT THE F@&*!!! The difference in performance was shocking and the intake noise was completely different. It almost sounded like I was running a cone filter instead of the OEM air-box. The MAF reading in 2nd 3rd and 4th gear peaked at 211gps.

    I replaced my turbo just a few weeks ago and my old one was peaking around 20-22 psi. The replacement peaks around 26psi and drops to around 18-20psi. That's pretty healthy but regardless, I know a K03 isn't capable of sucking 211gps. I assume it's a matter of the ECM doing a little more adapting with the new MAF. I'm really curious to see where it finally settles in. The LTFT is now solid at -3% so it's an indication that for now the MAF is reading a little aggressively on the air flow. But 211gps????

    I will update this thread in a few days after everything settles in. But for now I am smiling big time

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings elewsader's Avatar
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    A surge in Audi B6 MAF sales leads to inventory clear-outs nationwide due to an unknown cause, details at 10pm.
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShogunR32's Avatar
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    I just replaced mine last month and also noticed the car running much smoother. Im reading a little over 320g's on my B6 S4 maf now
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRchop88 View Post
    I just replaced mine last month and also noticed the car running much smoother. Im reading a little over 320g's on my B6 S4 maf now
    Now THAT'S a healthy gulp of air!!

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Pricing out new MAF as I type... thanks Fletcher!
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings Waspjr's Avatar
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    That's quite impressive awesome follow up too


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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings MikTip's Avatar
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    Simular effect when I replaced my no error code MAF!
    2015 S3 with 210,000 miles with new 2019 Q5 motor. Still going!

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikTip View Post
    Simular effect when I replaced my no error code MAF!
    Curious...What kind of max gps do you see with the K04?

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings Furly's Avatar
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    Side question

    How do you measure maf readings? Vcds? I need a new maf too but don't know which one I have now (it's been unplugged for a long time since I bought the car/maf is dead) I will pull It and check PN#
    Audi Club Bay Area

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    VCDS will work. I use my Torque app. Super easy. Just turn on my cell phone.


  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    And just for fun.....6,000 rpm in 2nd gear.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings MikTip's Avatar
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    I have been waiting for a "good" smartphone app as such!

    Look like Ross-Tech's getting into the smartphone apps too!
    2015 S3 with 210,000 miles with new 2019 Q5 motor. Still going!

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings MNAudi101's Avatar
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    old guy strikes again, I am on the original sensor and have 200,500 miles now
    200k daily tank

    My Build Thread



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  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Do we know what Audi intended to have for regular readings? OG, you talked about 3 at idle and 160 ish at what RPM? Trying to diagnose if my MAF is kicking the bucket as my car is slow and idle a bit shakey.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings texasboy21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadend9009 View Post
    Do we know what Audi intended to have for regular readings? OG, you talked about 3 at idle and 160 ish at what RPM? Trying to diagnose if my MAF is kicking the bucket as my car is slow and idle a bit shakey.
    According to this doc from REVO a chipped k03 car should read 150-170g/s. Peak airflow is usually around 4200-4400 rpms on my car.

    At idle the range I always hear as being in spec is 3-4g/s.

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings customa4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadend9009 View Post
    Do we know what Audi intended to have for regular readings? OG, you talked about 3 at idle and 160 ish at what RPM? Trying to diagnose if my MAF is kicking the bucket as my car is slow and idle a bit shakey.
    http://www.ross-tech.net/vag-com/adv...AF_TechTip.pdf
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  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Link wont work for me. I did find it in other OG threads. Thanks though!

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Three Rings Toronto5.5's Avatar
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    No Torque app for the iphone? That's a bummer.

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings customa4's Avatar
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    One of the most common failures on 2000 and newer VW and Audi cars is the MAF sensor, but properly diagnosing such a failure can be problematic. Your customer comes in telling you that their car just doesn’t have the zip it used to have. The car may or may not have fuel-trim related fault codes, most often 17536 / P1128. You can’t readily determine that the car is down on power because you have no point of reference because you have no point of reference as you haven’t been driving the car. How do you help your customer?

    In all likelihood, your customer is not dreaming. The MAF may be dying a slow death and under reporting air flow, but the values it is reporting are not off enough to trigger a fault code pointing directly at the MAF. VAG repair manuals show specifications for the MAF values in grams per second at idle, but checking at idle will rarely reveal a problem.

    So, how does one determine that the MAF has failed? The first thing to do is look at the additive and multiplicative fuel trim values. These are almost always found in Measuring Block Group 032. An actual example is a show in figure A. When a MAF is failing, the additive fuel trim will normally be within spec, but the multiplicative trim will be a positive value outside the specifications. Conversely, if additive fuel trim is out-of-spec in the positive direction and the multiplicative trim is within spec, chances are the car has an intake (vacuum) leak rather than a failing MAF. Note that clearing fault codes (even if no fault codes exist) will also reset the fuel trim values to 0, so it is essential to do this check before clearing any fault codes.

    Of course other factors can also throw off the fuel trims, so before replacing the MAF, it’s a good idea to do a full load test on it. This can easily be accomplished with a tool such as VCDS which can log graph, Figure A. and even show peak values during a road test. Chec the output of the MAF sensor while doing a full throttle run in 2nd gear, as shown in Figure B. On most current VW/Audi engines, the actual MAF value can be found in Group 002, field 4 or Group 003, field 2. Assuming this test is done at or near sea-level, the peak output of the sensor in g/s should be roughly 80% of the rated horsepower of the engine. For Figure B example, if the engine is supposed to produce 200hp, a healthy maf is expected to produce a peak value of about 160 g/s. If the number is significantly less than tha , you can be almost certain that the MAF is failing. Exceptions: if the test is conducted in a location whrer the altitude is substantially above sea-level on a non-turbo engine, an altitude correction factor will need to be applied. If the engine is turbo-charged, you should verify that it is producing the expected amount of manifold pressure (MAP). requested and actual MAP can usually be found in Group 115 of the measuring blocks.

    Need more help? Have a car (for example a diesel) where the above instructions don’t apply? VCDS Users can always call Ross-Tech for assistance finding and interpreting such values.
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  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Well, my Torque App is reporting and idle of 2.8-3 g/s but a 6000 rpm run only yields 137 g/s. Is this normal for an untuned 1.8t? I have about 100k miles on my car (159k km)

  21. #21
    Active Member Two Rings Sideburns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadend9009 View Post
    Well, my Torque App is reporting and idle of 2.8-3 g/s but a 6000 rpm run only yields 137 g/s. Is this normal for an untuned 1.8t? I have about 100k miles on my car (159k km)

    Yes, per the above post stating the MAF should be pushing 80% of the rated horsepower... stock 1.8t = 170hp 170 x 80% = 136 so your 137 would appear to be within spec.

  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Awesome thank you Sideburns. Can you open that link posted above or is it just me?

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings n7plus1's Avatar
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    jesus...my apr 2+ tune spikes to 20/21psi in 4th gear and thats it....

    ive cleaned mine out regularly...every other year maybe...i thought that it was more than normal.

    still on the original turbo though.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Three Rings fallingreason's Avatar
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    Mine failed around 83k. Happened to be when I was climbing in altitude and driving from CA to PA.... not sure if the altitude change had anything to do with it.

    Ended up backtracking to Salt Lake City, Utah to an Audi garage and had the MAF replaced. Engine ran much smoother in general after.

    Though, I noticed an even bigger difference in how the engine ran last year after replacing my pre-cat O2 sensor.
    2013 B8.5 Q5 2.0T

  25. #25
    Active Member One Ring
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    Old guy, any updates on your new maf? I bought the maf from the same vendor as you and the maf does not seem OEM rebuilt. If I compare it to the one in my car, the writing on the sides are not the same quality. It seems more like a "clone" vs OEM rebuilt.

    Regards

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fujiacc View Post
    Old guy, any updates on your new maf? I bought the maf from the same vendor as you and the maf does not seem OEM rebuilt. If I compare it to the one in my car, the writing on the sides are not the same quality. It seems more like a "clone" vs OEM rebuilt.

    Regards
    Interesting question. The numbers matched my OEM MAF sensor. It worked really well until a few days ago and then I started having idle issues. I stuck the OEM MAF sensor back in and the idle problem went away. I haven't had time to dig into it any deeper to figure out what's the underlying issue. This is a pic of the rebuilt one that I just removed:

    [IMG][/IMG]

  27. #27
    Active Member One Ring
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    It's the exact same one I received, however if you compare them closely side by side, you see the difference in writing.

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fujiacc View Post
    It's the exact same one I received, however if you compare them closely side by side, you see the difference in writing.
    Now I'm curious. I'll pull the OEM one this weekend and do a close comparison.

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    If it's too good to be true, very low cost etc.,.....it is likely counterfeit.

    "This Part was manufactured by a factory that is a supplier to an international VW Car Factory*. .... but this part should not be considered an official Genuine Volkswagen OE Part or an OEM part for your particular car." This says the mysterious international VW car Factory uses non OEM parts, or the manufacturer makes both OE and counterfeit parts.

    "Rebuilt Bosch 06A906461L MAF (OEM Part)"

    Sounds like double speak to me. Either it is or it is not a Bosch manufactured part. If it is a genuine Bosch MAF meter, then there is no reason for the unclear attempt to describe the part as genuine but not really the same as genuine OEM Bosch, then saying it is OEM. The way the actual genuine Bosch MAF sensor element is manufactured, there is no remanufacturing possible. The only "remanufacture" could be the installation of a new sensor element into a reconditioned meter body. I have never run across a genuine Bosch MAF meter for our cars as remanufactured before either. Considering the likely counterfeit status of this MAF meter, it is not surprising it is measuring excessive mass air flow at high loads.

    *Read as: Part was manufactured in China by a counterfeit auto parts manufacturer with world wide distribution channels.
    Last edited by diagnosticator; 07-24-2014 at 12:57 AM.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideburns View Post
    Yes, per the above post stating the MAF should be pushing 80% of the rated horsepower... stock 1.8t = 170hp 170 x 80% = 136 so your 137 would appear to be within spec.
    With the MAF meter OG received, at 211 g/sec, that would give ~264 HP (211/.80, rounded up.) with his stage 1+ tune and K-03 turbo.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    And just for fun.....6,000 rpm in 2nd gear.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Another clue the actual MAF measurement is less, is the short term fuel trim at -25% or more. Since the actual mass air flow is less, the exhaust oxygen content is lower than would be the case with true 211 g/sec MAF, so the ECU is reducing fuel flow accordingly. (stft, but is apparently maxed out at -25%)
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Wait....What?????? You mean my mighty K03 isn't really putting out 264 hp?? Why would my MAF lie to me like that?? LOL

    After a few days the LTFT settled out around -1% but the max gps remained excessively aggressive at ~200gps and would still pull maximum STFT at full throttle. The overall AFR typically bounced around the stoichiometric point except under full throttle where it dropped to just below 13. Not that I minded that under full throttle. The overall gas mileage remained pretty much consistent with the old MAF. But for whatever reason the idle started getting a bit lumpy and that went away when I stuck the old MAF back in. Idle gps reading was fine at 3gps.

    Oh well, as I said in the original post it was a $50 gamble.

    EDIT: And as a side note the new MAF still pulled noticeably stronger than the original OEM one. I assume that is the difference between the original MAF under-reading the gps under load and constantly adding fuel versus the new MAF reading fat under load.
    Last edited by old guy; 07-24-2014 at 02:59 AM.

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings diagnosticator's Avatar
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    Yeah OG, I didn't mention anything you didn't already know. Comments for others interest.
    Vorsprung durch Technik

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings Luxus Panzer's Avatar
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    How does that Smarphonne App interface with your car?
    2004 A4 Avant Quattro. (H&R springs, S100 Nav unit, Neuspeed Cat back, Torque solutions Snub mount, Thor Skid Plate, APR Stage 1, 18" S4 Rims, 2X Podi / Oil Press / Oil Temp / Boost/VAC, Full LED interior, Backup Camera/Screen, Upgraded 2.0 Coil Packs, Vag-Com, B7 Center console/B7 Hand Brake, B7 Aero wiper arms B7 rear headreasts,APR Carbonio intake, Fan washer sprayers,
    2014 VW Tiguan. (bone stock)

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings n7plus1's Avatar
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    So, a couple things to learn here:

    1. Buy an OEM replacement; stated as new, not re-manned
    2. MAF's wear out over time?

    Honestly, I thought a MAF either worked or it didn't work? No in between.

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings n7plus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus Panzer View Post
    How does that Smarphonne App interface with your car?
    probably bluetooth.

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  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings SlickFix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n7plus1 View Post
    probably bluetooth.

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  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings SJorge3442's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus Panzer View Post
    How does that Smarphonne App interface with your car?
    yup. Bluetooth connector to Torque. iphone users need to figure out a different way to work. They cant use the bluetooth adaptor and the apps made for the iphone arent the same as android, but they are closely related. I run an appradio 2 headunit, so I actually have my android mirrored to my dash where I run torque on a day to day basis, just to keep an eye on things.
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  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings JUSADUB's Avatar
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    Cant beat that price.
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  40. #40
    Veteran Member Four Rings n7plus1's Avatar
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    you can if the shit doesnt work correctly. lol

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